View Full Version : We still Suck: last week was a mirage
Big Texas
12-21-2008, 06:00 PM
Well we have found that our team still sucks.
Last week was a fluke.
Keys to the Loss:
We seem to play to the level of our competition every game.
We cant beat the teams we are supposed to beat.
kubiak outcoaches himself, his team, and everyone else except the other team
We stop a top ranked running game last week, and then get manhandled by a far worst O-Line and running game.
Johnny Lee Who?
4th and inches, on the 3 yd line down 11...
Andre Johnson thrown to 3 or 4 times for 1 completion and an interception.
All I can say is Wow
barrett
12-21-2008, 06:05 PM
you are never as good as you look in your highs or as bad as you look in your lows. This concept may be lost in the current ESPN era of instant over-evaluation, but it is still true.
Bottom line is "we are who we thought we were." An average 8-8 (likely) team who wins and loses at an equal clip. Funny how a 16 game schedule has a way of balancing all of that out and generally letting us know how good a team is far more accurately than a hot (or cold) month/week.
Big Texas
12-21-2008, 06:11 PM
our record indicates that we are an average team. But I would go a step further in saying that we are an underacheiving team. How else do account for beating potentially the best team in the NFL and losing to one of the worst teams the next week all factors constant. No key injuries to either team. The only factor that seems to differ here would be the rainy weather. (and it wasnt all that rainy or muddy)
our record indicates that we are an average team. But I would go a step further in saying that we are an underacheiving team. How else do account for beating potentially the best team in the NFL and losing to one of the worst teams the next week all factors constant. No key injuries to either team. The only factor that seems to differ here would be the rainy weather. (and it wasnt all that rainy or muddy)
Because they're physically worn out from the Tennessee game. This is a finesse team that is just not built to stand up with the physical teams in the league in my opinion. They're just beat up and on top have to travel to the west coast and play in cold, wet conditions. Soft teams loose those games.
They need to get physical up front on the interior offensively and also at every level of the defense.
barrett
12-21-2008, 09:04 PM
Because they're physically worn out from the Tennessee game. This is a finesse team that is just not built to stand up with the physical teams in the league in my opinion. They're just beat up and on top have to travel to the west coast and play in cold, wet conditions. Soft teams loose those games.
They need to get physical up front on the interior offensively and also at every level of the defense.
They are soft and not built to play physical games like the Raiders but they are physical enough to beat the Titans??? That makes sense.
More likely they just went out and played an awful game. Every facet. They laid an egg. Bad coaching, bad offense, bad defense, terrible special teams. Flat across the board.
We've played harder and cared more than our opponents for the last month and today the opposite was true. A poor and inexcusable effort, but it has nothing to do with being "tired" from last week's game.
TheMatrix31
12-21-2008, 09:08 PM
It's ok. If consistency is all we have to worry about, then that's a good thing. It's easier to work out the kinks once everything is laid out. Right now, we're there, we just have to work on it. A couple years ago, we weren't even close.
Well we have found that our team still sucks.
Last week was a fluke.
Keys to the Loss:
We seem to play to the level of our competition every game.
We cant beat the teams we are supposed to beat.
kubiak outcoaches himself, his team, and everyone else except the other team
We stop a top ranked running game last week, and then get manhandled by a far worst O-Line and running game.
Johnny Lee Who?
4th and inches, on the 3 yd line down 11...
Andre Johnson thrown to 3 or 4 times for 1 completion and an interception.
All I can say is Wow
Wah wah wah. You freakin' brat. Talk about a fair weather fan.
The defense sucked today, but that has been the case most of the year. Today does not diminish what this team has done coming back from 0-4, and showing some guts to come back, beat GB and beat TN. Am I happy today? No. But this had "trap" all over it. 4 game win streak, playing on the left coast and a bad opponent. It happens. Move on.
They are soft and not built to play physical games like the Raiders but they are physical enough to beat the Titans??? That makes sense.
More likely they just went out and played an awful game. Every facet. They laid an egg. Bad coaching, bad offense, bad defense, terrible special teams. Flat across the board.
We've played harder and cared more than our opponents for the last month and today the opposite was true. A poor and inexcusable effort, but it has nothing to do with being "tired" from last week's game.
Hmm...
I think you missed the point. So you are telling me that playing a tough, physical contest against a team such as Tennessee has no impact on the players and the way the team plays the following week?
barrett
12-21-2008, 10:41 PM
Hmm...
I think you missed the point. So you are telling me that playing a tough, physical contest against a team such as Tennessee has no impact on the players and the way the team plays the following week?
I'm telling you that whatever impact it has is no indication of a soft team.
Soft/tough comes into play when beating Tennessee. Not in some idea of recovery time. If anything you are talking about mental toughness which is not what you started out talking about with interior line and each level of the defense.
Either way the Texans are plenty tough physically and mentally. Just not very consistent.
I'm telling you that whatever impact it has is no indication of a soft team.
Soft/tough comes into play when beating Tennessee. Not in some idea of recovery time. If anything you are talking about mental toughness which is not what you started out talking about with interior line and each level of the defense.
Either way the Texans are plenty tough physically and mentally. Just not very consistent.
They are certainly not a team that anyone would confuse with a physical team. Outside of a handful of individual players there's not one unit of this team that would be considered physical as a whole. Physical teams control the los and it's clear that the Texans lack this, and it's highlighted in the redzone both offensively and defensively.
barrett
12-21-2008, 11:28 PM
They are certainly not a team that anyone would confuse with a physical team. Outside of a handful of individual players there's not one unit of this team that would be considered physical as a whole. Physical teams control the los and it's clear that the Texans lack this, and it's highlighted in the redzone both offensively and defensively.
and yet they did exactly that for the last month. Even against teams like Jacksonville and Tennessee who are confused with physical teams.
A bad game this week doesn't erase the four good ones. Just like the four good ones don't erase the bad start. you can't take a loss to the Raiders and declare them soft.
The Texans have been just fine physically up front this year. They've run the ball fine and held up against the run more often than not.
sinnister
12-22-2008, 12:22 AM
The Texans have been just fine physically up front this year. They've run the ball fine and held up against the run more often than not.
I am not sure which games you have been watching. If you mean they have held up physically, as in little injuries, then yes. As far as being physical, at times they have been, but it hasn't been a consistent effort. The only game where we played a very physical game was last week against the Titans.
barrett
12-22-2008, 12:42 AM
I am not sure which games you have been watching. If you mean they have held up physically, as in little injuries, then yes. As far as being physical, at times they have been, but it hasn't been a consistent effort. The only game where we played a very physical game was last week against the Titans.
The Texans came into the game having outrushed their opponent in 5 straight. How else would you define playing physical?
How about putting away Jacksonville (who prides themselves on being physical and stopping the run) with two 4th quarter TD runs where everyone in the stadium knew we were running the ball.
The Texans are plenty physical. If I'd tag them with a single issue it would be playing dumb, not soft. From the HC down to the players (turnovers, blown challenges, wasted TOs, bad clock management, costly defensive penalties, special teams unpreparedness, etc...). I would definitely characterize their problems as more mental than physical.
Even on the line. Our OL struggles with speed way more than size. Only Meyers gets pushed around. Every other OL is very physical and better in run blocking than pass protection. On the DL the same is true. We hold the point of attack just fine, we just struggle with getting penetration against the pass and run.
After the first two weeks of the season the Texans have won the physical battles way more than they have lost them.
and yet they did exactly that for the last month. Even against teams like Jacksonville and Tennessee who are confused with physical teams.
A bad game this week doesn't erase the four good ones. Just like the four good ones don't erase the bad start. you can't take a loss to the Raiders and declare them soft.
The Texans have been just fine physically up front this year. They've run the ball fine and held up against the run more often than not.
If you think this team controls the los on either side of the ball, I don't know what to tell you. I've been saying that they need to get more physical for a while now... They're just not that.... I don't need a loss to the Raiders after a tough game against Tennessee to tell me that.
Find some redzone statistics both on offense and defense....
They're bad on 3rd down defense and even worse trying to create a stop on 4th. Physically, they don't stand up.
Big Texas
12-22-2008, 08:03 AM
Wah wah wah. You freakin' brat. Talk about a fair weather fan.
First of all I am in no way shape form or fashion a fair weather fan. I saw need for improvement in the Titans win and the Packers win. Call me pessimistic, but never fair weather.
The defense sucked today, but that has been the case most of the year.
Wow, big discovery. So this point brings you to what conclusion. That the topic of this thread was true. We still suck.
Today does not diminish what this team has done coming back from 0-4, and showing some guts to come back, beat GB and beat TN.
What did that prove? That we are a highly unpredictable and inconsistant team. Something we have been since our inception. Or does it prove that we "play to the level of our competition"? We dont blow out scrubs. But we put up a fight "sometimes" against major opponents. What other conclusion do you have? How do you define stopping one of the top running back tandems in the league, to getting killed by the raiders. Wow.
Am I happy today? No. But this had "trap" all over it.
What is "this". You mean the thought that for once you could have a bullseye on your back after winning 4 straight and beating the best team in the league the previous week. Im sorry but it happens. Winners get used to it and still "WIN". Ask New England.
4 game win streak, playing on the left coast and a bad opponent.
All of this equals a win, in my book.
It happens. Move on.
As you suggest I have been moving on. Every season.
Joshua
12-22-2008, 10:15 AM
and yet they did exactly that for the last month. Even against teams like Jacksonville and Tennessee who are confused with physical teams.
A bad game this week doesn't erase the four good ones. Just like the four good ones don't erase the bad start. you can't take a loss to the Raiders and declare them soft.
The Texans have been just fine physically up front this year. They've run the ball fine and held up against the run more often than not.
Texans have run the ball pretty well lately, but I don't think that alone indicates that they are physical. Physical running shows up in short yardage and in the redzone, and the Texans are horrible at both.
As for stopping the run, right now, the Texans are ranked 25th and give up 105 yards a game with a 4.5 yard average. Throw in the fact that they are one of the worst redzone defenses and I don't see how they can be characterized as a tough, physical defense. Aside from Mario and Dunta, I don't think anyone else on the team is an above average player from a physical/toughness standpoint (and I also don't think this is one of those cases where the sum is greater than its parts).
Like you said, one game doesn't make you something, and the only game I truly thought the Texans appeared to be physical was Tenn. (While Jacksonvile has historically been a pretty physical team, this year's team just doesn't bring it like year's past (middle of the road 14th against the run)).
barrett
12-22-2008, 10:19 AM
Texans have run the ball pretty well lately, but I don't think that alone indicates that they are physical. Physical running shows up in short yardage and in the redzone, and the Texans are horrible at both.
As for stopping the run, right now, the Texans are ranked 25th and give up 105 yards a game with a 4.5 yard average. Throw in the fact that they are one of the worst redzone defenses and I don't see how they can be characterized as a tough, physical defense. Aside from Mario and Dunta, I don't think anyone else on the team is an above average player from a physical/toughness standpoint (and I also don't think this is one of those cases where the sum is greater than its parts).
Like you said, one game doesn't make you something, and the only game I truly thought the Texans appeared to be physical was Tenn. (While Jacksonvile has historically been a pretty physical team, this year's team just doesn't bring it like year's past (middle of the road 14th against the run)).
so we are more physical than a middle of the road physical team. I agree completely. We are not a physical team, but we are not losing games because we get pushed around. We are just fine in that department. We lose games from stupid play.
First of all I am in no way shape form or fashion a fair weather fan. I saw need for improvement in the Titans win and the Packers win. Call me pessimistic, but never fair weather.
You must have it really tough with your prefect dreams and ideals in this imperfect world. If you could not enjoy the Packer win and Titan win then you have bigger issues that should be addressed by a trained medical professional.
Big Texas
12-22-2008, 11:18 AM
You must have it really tough with your prefect dreams and ideals in this imperfect world. If you could not enjoy the Packer win and Titan win then you have bigger issues that should be addressed by a trained medical professional.
I never said that I did not enjoy a win. Everyone enjoys a win.
But what makes champions and winners, something this team is not and obviously with you at the helm would continue not to be, is a team that realizes that there is always room for improvement. If there was not anymore room for improvement then both teams that beat the Titans would not be watching from home in January.
Its statements like the one you just made that keep us in the current predicament that we are in. Contentment with mediocrity.
Just because you win a game does not make you a winner. A winner is defined as a person who wins more than they lose. We have not. So there for we are losers. And at best this season we are mediocre, average, and in my book after so many years unacceptable.
Now take that and do what you will. I choose not to converse with the likes of someone who chooses to ignore the losses of today to focus on the irrelevant wins of yesterday. And yes they were irrelevant because they have no bearing on today or our future. All that win did was decrease our chances of a good draft pick and settle the spirits of a person like you.
So you and your loser buddies can start a thread called "A" for effort where you can discuss the great things Dom Capers, George Bush, and Jeff Skilling have done.
Joshua
12-22-2008, 01:11 PM
so we are more physical than a middle of the road physical team. I agree completely. We are not a physical team, but we are not losing games because we get pushed around. We are just fine in that department. We lose games from stupid play.
No disagreement from me that we lose games from stupid play, whether from the coaches or the players. I do think we have lost several games by being pushed around. Off the top of my head, we were pushed around severely by Pittsburgh and Baltimore (although they are the 2 best at it and do it to a lot of people). We also were somewhat manhandled in the first Tenn. and Jacksonville games as well as the Minnesota game. I will acknowledge that we are getting better at playing tougher. However, I'm not convinced we're there yet. And up until the second half of this season, I don't know how you could characterize the Texans as anything but a soft team.
barrett
12-22-2008, 01:22 PM
No disagreement from me that we lose games from stupid play, whether from the coaches or the players. I do think we have lost several games by being pushed around. Off the top of my head, we were pushed around severely by Pittsburgh and Baltimore (although they are the 2 best at it and do it to a lot of people). We also were somewhat manhandled in the first Tenn. and Jacksonville games as well as the Minnesota game. I will acknowledge that we are getting better at playing tougher. However, I'm not convinced we're there yet. And up until the second half of this season, I don't know how you could characterize the Texans as anything but a soft team.
i think we actually agree. I don't think we are a team of tough guys, I just think we are plenty tough to win in the NFL (or at least not get beat by it if we play smart). We are tougher than the colts, but they play smart football and make it their identity.
I guess my point is we can win without getting any tougher. But we can't win without getting smarter. Not many superbowls are won by the team featuring a bunch of tough guys playing intimidator and pounding their chest. Most of the time the more disciplined team wins.
If anyone disagrees I'll put money against the titans and their false bravado squad.
nero THE zero
12-22-2008, 01:36 PM
Because they're physically worn out from the Tennessee game. This is a finesse team that is just not built to stand up with the physical teams in the league in my opinion. They're just beat up and on top have to travel to the west coast and play in cold, wet conditions. Soft teams loose those games.
They need to get physical up front on the interior offensively and also at every level of the defense.
Yep. Not to mention the fact that our BYE week was way back in week 2. We were just tired, didn't get up for this game, and flat out got beat in all three phases of the game.
Bigtinylittle
12-22-2008, 02:07 PM
I am completely with Barrett on this one. We are an average team right now. Oakland is a below average team. If the Tennessee Titans can lose to an average team on the road (Texans) then the Texans can lose to a below averave team (Raiders) without it meaning the Texans are a terrible team.
Some things I saw yesterday:
1. The Raiders were getting more pressure on the QB than we were. I take that to mean they wanted the game more than we did.
2. Asomuga or whatever his name is, probably is the best DB I have seen in a long time. I love that guy.
3.Slater ran tough all day. That impressed me.
4.I'm not going to complain if we draft a RB with our first or second pick.
I never said that I did not enjoy a win. Everyone enjoys a win.
But what makes champions and winners, something this team is not and obviously with you at the helm would continue not to be, is a team that realizes that there is always room for improvement. If there was not anymore room for improvement then both teams that beat the Titans would not be watching from home in January.
Its statements like the one you just made that keep us in the current predicament that we are in. Contentment with mediocrity.
Just because you win a game does not make you a winner. A winner is defined as a person who wins more than they lose. We have not. So there for we are losers. And at best this season we are mediocre, average, and in my book after so many years unacceptable.
Now take that and do what you will. I choose not to converse with the likes of someone who chooses to ignore the losses of today to focus on the irrelevant wins of yesterday. And yes they were irrelevant because they have no bearing on today or our future. All that win did was decrease our chances of a good draft pick and settle the spirits of a person like you.
So you and your loser buddies can start a thread called "A" for effort where you can discuss the great things Dom Capers, George Bush, and Jeff Skilling have done.
I am not happy about losing yesterday, but I prefer to see the positive(s) of this season, and don't get too excited over a win or a loss.
As for your last comment, you are a complete ass, and you know nothing of me, my family, friends or anything about me. Do you feel "big" by making statements like that on a message board. You must be a really smart man. I bet you are a product of the public schools here. I am sure Texans everywhere are proud of you. I hope you don't spill a drink on my car next time I am at your drive thru window.
popanot
12-22-2008, 05:33 PM
Alright, let's all chill a little here. I'm proud this team didn't go totally in the tank after Ike and the awful start they had. That's certainly a sign of good character and something to hang their hat on. However, this season has been a major disappointment and they have achieved absolutely nothing. Sure, we look like we've assembled more talent in various spots, but this team still has many more questions than answers as far as the roster goes, and the coaching has gotten worse this year, IMO. Although Slaton has been a godsend, we know nothing more about future or potential of this team than we did at the beginning of the season. The offense can move the ball, but idea is to score TDs. The defense is a total mess and the special teams aren't anything special. Not good as far as I'm concerned.
I'm a Texans fan and always will be, but I'm frustrated and tired of the mediocrity. Why the hell can teams like the Dolphins and Falcons (and the Cowpies a couple years ago) turn it around, yet, we fester in mediocrity year after year. I mean come on, how about just a little sniff of the playoffs??? Is that too much to ask? Apparently so. It could be worse, I guess. We could be the Lions or Bengals. :rolleyes:
Bigtinylittle
12-22-2008, 05:56 PM
Well, I would like to win the Super Bowl the next couple of years or so, but it aint going to happen.
Like it or not, the Texans are an average team right now. The fact is, only a few teams in the league are well above average. The rest are average or worse.
In my opinion, the Texans are a very young team and should get better just by gaining more experience. If we have a good draft or two, in the next couple of years we could join the elite teams. Our season is essentially over now. I will watch our game with Chicago this week and after that I intend to enjoy spending the off season watching the draft, the free agents pickups and the trades, and hoping for the best. Things could be worse-- at least we aren't Detroit.
I don't like that we are characterized as "sucked". We may not meet certain peoples criteria, but we certainly don't suck! Certain players and coaches need to be weeded out, and I am sure they will be. Right now we are what we are, average. That is a heck of lot better than what we were.
jppaul
12-23-2008, 02:38 AM
I bet we win the bears game but only if we are underdogs. If anybody expects anything out of us we are bound to fall flat on our faces
Big Texas
12-23-2008, 02:07 PM
I don't like that we are characterized as "sucked". We may not meet certain peoples criteria, but we certainly don't suck! Certain players and coaches need to be weeded out, and I am sure they will be. Right now we are what we are, average. That is a heck of lot better than what we were.
I understand, "suck" may be a bit of an overexaggeration but mediocre, average, underacheivers, and less than par are pretty close to defining where we are right now. And as far as us being better than we were, I disagree. 7-8. We can only hope to be as good as we were last year. Because in the end it all boils down to wins.
Big Texas
12-23-2008, 02:17 PM
I am not happy about losing yesterday, but I prefer to see the positive(s) of this season, and don't get too excited over a win or a loss.
As for your last comment, you are a complete ass, and you know nothing of me, my family, friends or anything about me. Do you feel "big" by making statements like that on a message board. You must be a really smart man. I bet you are a product of the public schools here. I am sure Texans everywhere are proud of you. I hope you don't spill a drink on my car next time I am at your drive thru window.
Good post. Do you feel better now. Now who is the one whining. "Wah, Wah, Wah". Remember that? Or do you need "medical attention".
Point here is that this is a sports chat forum, where individuals are free to express their opinions about the Texans. I understand and respect that you are an optimist, you should as a respectable individual respect the fact that my ideals may differ from yours without resorting to emotional statements like the ones above. Or in the words of a product of PUBLIC SCHOOLS if you cant take the heat get out the kitchen OR dont start something that you are too emotional to finish.
I hope you don't spill a drink on my car next time I am at your drive thru window.
And so you know, you are probably paying my salary right now for your son/daughter to get a higher education. So you dont know anything about me as well, so lets keep it that way.
You brought up non-sports arguments and Skilling and Bush. You made it personal, not about sports. You were the one who made accusations about me and my friends. You started the non sports crapstorm. That was not my choice, but that is the path you went down.
This is a good board for football discussion. I don't want to make it a place for anything other than intelligent Texan opinion. I'd rather not respond to your baseless personal attacks for the rest of the community to read. If you want to flame away at me, have at it. I am not going to comment and degrade this community. I hope you and your family have a merry Christmas.
sinnister
12-24-2008, 12:49 AM
I understand, "suck" may be a bit of an overexaggeration but mediocre, average, underacheivers, and less than par are pretty close to defining where we are right now. And as far as us being better than we were, I disagree. 7-8. We can only hope to be as good as we were last year. Because in the end it all boils down to wins.
I disagree with part of your statement. As far as record goes, you are correct in that we can only equal last year; however, I feel this team is better than last years team. The only way we would really know that is for them to play each other, and that is impossible. I do believe that this years team would win if they were to play. We have improved OL play, a better running back, and better qb play from Schaub. The D. well, talking about that makes me cry. Anyway, we can be a better team but have a 7-9 or 8-8 record. All things aren't equal since we aren't playing the same teams, injuries, etc, so I think we have to see if there is improvement or not. I feel that the Offense has made great strides, and the D has to be addressed. If we find another play maker on Offense, and someone who can help us in the red zone, we could become one of the elite offenses in the NFL. That is a long way from the Caper days. Who knows what our D could be with a great S in the backfield and a pass rusher. I am cautiously optimistic about next year.
superbowlbound
12-25-2008, 10:09 PM
You're right, we're still mediocre, but we're right there on the verge of being a good, playoff caliber team. The fact of the matter is that we're a very young team with young coaches that are still learning how to win in this league. Now, no one is happy with the way the season turned out, but as we saw in the packers and tacks games, we're finally starting to make the one to three plays that turn tough losses into wins. Even in the Raiders debacle, Amobi, of all people, forced an extremely clutch turnover, only to have the wind taken out of our sails by boneheaded playcalling. I know that can easily be turned into "see? we still suck," but given our position, i see it as a positive. Even our craptacular defense is starting to make plays. How can that be anything but good? Sure, we still need help on both sides of the ball, but an offseason of work on redzone offense, a solid draft, and maybe a free agent or two on the defensive side of the ball, and we have all the tools to be a playoff team. Just a slight reversal of fortune in the early going of the year, namely the rosencopter game and the game at jacksonville, and we come into the raider game fighting for a playoff spot. There is a lot of room for optimism here, going forward, whether you like it or not. I would've liked to have success sooner as well, but we've gotta face the fact that we essentially started over. we'll get there, just be a little more patient.
We don't suck, we were just a very inconsitant team this year. On to the 2009 Draft, and the first playoff year.
Nice solid win the end the season. Amazing that the number of people who come to the board and post is so much less after a win.
Nconroe
12-29-2008, 09:24 AM
I agree we don't suck. We had third best offense. Likely defense was ok after the first 6 games or so, once we stopped all the turnovers on offense.
We are still a young team, lots of guys in new positions thus the in consistency, but consistency has been improving. I thought Matt Schaub matured a lot these last 8 games.
Dennis2112
12-29-2008, 04:21 PM
I thought Matt Schaub matured a lot these last 8 games.
Matured...that is the proper word.
I agree with this statement. I feel that could be said for many on this team this year as opposed to last year. There are far more positives to pull from this year compared to last year.
I just wish Matt had the arm to get the long ball to AJ on those long routes. Several times this year he would have scored if he hadn't had to slow down and wait for the ball.
papabear
12-30-2008, 02:11 PM
I just wish Matt had the arm to get the long ball to AJ on those long routes. Several times this year he would have scored if he hadn't had to slow down and wait for the ball.
That's not necessarily an arm issue though. An arcing deep pass like that is as much dependent on timing as it is on having a big gun. I wouldn't mind for Schaub to have a bigger arm....If he can get there a split second quicker with his arm that gives him an extra split second to read the defense and less time for DB's to break on the ball. On the plays you are referring to if he just times the throw better AJ scores regardless of the zip on the ball though.
Again, Schaub could use a bigger arm, but so could Montana. I think Schaub's arm strength is adequate.
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