Official Texans @ Patriots Playoff Game Thread, 1/14/2017

[Arky]

The 10-7 Texans are off to Foxboro this Saturday night for a divisional round playoff game with the 14-2 New England Patriots. The Texans won their Wild Card round game last week defeating the Oakland Raiders 27-14 while the Patriots, the #1 seed, were on a bye. The Texans will have their work cut out for them as the Patriots are the odds on favorite (http://www.footballlocks.com/nfl_futures_odds_super_bowl_li.shtml) (33:20) to win the Super Bowl and the Texans are the least favored to win the Super Bowl (80:1).

Pats QB Tom Brady is in MVP talk and has had an excellent year - 3554 yards, 67.4% completion, 28 TDs and 2 INT's in just 12 games. His favorite targets are Julian Edelman (98/1106, 11.3 avg), TE Martellus Bennett (55/701, 12.7 avg) and Chris Hogan (38/680, 17.9 avg). Legarrette Blount (299/1161, 3.9 avg) heads the rushing attack although Dion Lewis (64/283, 4.4 avg) and James White (39/166, 4.3 avg) might see some carries. On the other side of the ball, the Pats defense finished #1 in pts. allowed/game with just 15.6. There were 8th in yds/game with 326.4. That breaks down to 3rd stopping the run (88.6 yds/game) and 12th limiting teams to 237.9 passing yds/game.

The Texan defense has been building momentum as of late and may represent the only chance of the Texans winning. If they don't dominate, it could be a long night....

These two teams met in Week 3 in Foxboro with the Pats winning 27-0 on TNF.

Texans have been given a 15% chance of advancing (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-nfl-predictions/) to the AFC Championship game.

Texans are 2-6 (2-6 ATS) on the road; Patriots are 6-2 (6-2 ATS) at home.

Gametime temps (https://weather.com/weather/5day/l/USMA0146:1:US) expected to be just below freezing with a 0% chance of precipitation.

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TV = CBS (channel 11 local), 7:15 pm CST, Saturday, 1/14/2017

Announcers = Jim Nantz, Phil Simms

The line (http://www.madduxsports.com/nfl-odds.php) = Patriots by 15 to 16½

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Other playoff action:

FOX (Saturday) - Seattle @ Atlanta, 3:35pm CST

NBC (Sunday) - Pittsburgh @ Kansas City, 12:05pm CST

FOX (Sunday) - Green Bay @ Dallas, 3:40pm CST

[HPF Bob]

I figured this game would be the "not ready for prime time" afternoon game instead of the "hey, what else is on tonight?" primetime stinker. Brady, alone, won't hold an audience.

Texans will need to channel all their "us against the world" energy into the game of their lives if they are to have any chance. But if the Patriots are lulled by the regular season game into thinking they can mail this in, the Texans have a slight chance.

The Texans don't seem to suffer much in the cold and if the wind is calm, should be able to move the ball. The other alternate might be a wind so ferocious that the offenses can only realistically score in two of the four halves. Holding down the scoring would be the only way to see Houston overcoming.

[Arky]

Yeah, I think I'm going to take it by quarters.... If it's close after the 1st qtr, well OK - however, if the Pats are already up by 10 or so, then it won't be looking too good. If the Texans are able to keep it close by the half, then I might just let a little hope creep in. If they keep it close by the end of the 3rd qtr., then it is game on and Go Texans.....

Win or lose, the one thing that will come of this game is the playoff experience for the younger guys. They are getting a taste of what it is like to advance in the playoffs and it will give them an intangible that they will have for the rest of their careers....

[nunusguy]

The upcoming weekend, the divisional P-O weekend is the best weekend in all of football IMO and I always enjoy it. I'm still relieved the Texans won the W-C game with Brock performing OK against an average but not bad Raiders defense.
So let's face it we've had some really weird things happen recently like the election victory by the crazy man with the orange hair. Nobody saw that coming least of all any of the socalled experts. Would a Texans upset of the Pats in Foxborough this weekend be as shocking as that political event back in November ? I think it would be right up there with it.
Personally I'm just hoping the Texans keep it interesting for awhile.

[HPF Bob]

2016 was definitely the Year Nobody Saw Coming, not just Trump but BREXIT, WikiLeaks, the Chicago Cubs, and the Cavaliers coming back from 1-3 to knock off the team with the best NBA record ever. Clemson's upset of Alabama continues the trend and any NFL underdogs like the Texans (never advanced past divisional round) or the Chiefs (no Super Bowls since the AFL days) have to take a little bit of heart that the cosmic oddsmakers are making up for lost time.

Unfortunately, I can no longer nod my head at Steve Goodman's great line from "The Dying Cubs Fan's Last Request" (1982) which went:

"You know the Law of Averages states that anything will happen that can.
But the last time the Cubs won the pennant was the last time we dropped a bomb on Japan."

[Arky]

Video - Texans vs. Patriots breakdown (http://www.sportsbookreview.com/picks/nfl/v/houston-texans-vs-new-england-patriots-divisional-round-sports-bit-nfl-picks-preview/35936), Teddy Covers - TRT 5:45

I thought he was kind to the Texans here, especially with his assessment of their first meeting this year. He's also smart enough not to use the words "no chance".....

[chuck]

The upcoming weekend, the divisional P-O weekend is the best weekend in all of football IMO and I always enjoy it.

Like BOB talking about left-handed quarterbacks I say it every year - this is by far my favorite week of the season. The fact that the Texans are playing is a nice bonus.

Nate Silver's guys give us a 15% chance to win. I think that may be generous. But as I have said before, the Patriots are not unbeatable.

[chuck]

Dammit, I meant to say Bob. I'm so used to complaining about BOB that I'm now out of practice making fun of Bob. I've got to keep my thoughts better compartmentalized.

[HPF Bob]

The Sklar brothers point out that Osweiler is 2-0 lifetime versus Tom Brady and 2-1 in his career versus Belichick (well, okay, he was the holder in the AFC Championship Game last year but he did beat Brady head-to-head as a Bronco during the 2015 regular season).

[Arky]

Pendergast - NFL Playoffs, Divisional Round: Texans-Patriots (http://www.houstonpress.com/news/nfl-playoffs-divisional-round-texans-patriots-four-things-to-watch-for-9095232)

So in analyzing a game like this, there are certain things we should accept as givens, things we absolutely can't count on (knowing full well that some crazy, outlandish, "WHAT IN THE BLUE HELL JUST HAPPENED?!" things will NEED to happen in order for the Texans to pull off the upset).

[HPF Bob]

The conspiracy theorist in me says there's no way CBS wanted to have such a dog matchup for primetime (and, let's face it, we're not talking about the Patriots here) although they love having a CBS-owned sports bar in the stadium which magically nets them an extra home game or two every year.

So the league has instructed the refs to keep it close for the first half, using phantom holding calls if necessary to keep the Texans within a touchdown. In the second half, with the crowd still engaged, the refs will make sure the Patriots win but don't cover. That way, both franchises leave with what they wanted. The Pats get a win and a tuneup for the AFCCG. The Texans leave with some respect, enough to continue rebuilding for another year.

[chuck]

The conspiracy theorist in me says there's no way CBS wanted to have such a dog matchup for primetime (and, let's face it, we're not talking about the Patriots here) although they love having a CBS-owned sports bar in the stadium which magically nets them an extra home game or two every year.

So the league has instructed the refs to keep it close for the first half, using phantom holding calls if necessary to keep the Texans within a touchdown. In the second half, with the crowd still engaged, the refs will make sure the Patriots win but don't cover. That way, both franchises leave with what they wanted. The Pats get a win and a tuneup for the AFCCG. The Texans leave with some respect, enough to continue rebuilding for another year.

So did Goodell orchestrate Denver's Super Bowl win last year or did the Broncos accomplish that on their own?

[HPF Bob]

So did Goodell orchestrate Denver's Super Bowl win last year or did the Broncos accomplish that on their own?

Chuckles, you don't have to go too far to find Patriot fans and Panther fans who thought that the league wanted to write a final chapter for Peyton Manning and can find key moments in the game where an official's ruling might have changed the course of the game.

For example, on Denver's first Super Bowl TD when Von Miller strip-sacked Cam Newton which became a Denver TD. Panther fans will complain that the officials overlooked a helmet to helmet hit by Miller on Newton (a refrain they revised in this year's season opener). Panther fans also thought the ruling of a non-catch via replay just before the sack also set up the Broncos score.

Do I think it's rigged? Not every game, not every play but when the league wants to determine an outcome they can do it. Go find the YouTube video series on the Niners-Seahawks rivalry of a few years ago if you think it's not possible.

[barrett]

Did you just quote other fan conspiracies to support that sometimes fan conspiracies are true?

[HPF Bob]

Sorta like the media reporting repeatedly that Russia stole the election without providing any proof of *how* their involvement changed the result or showing any tangible link that they even tried. Not to mention the whole bull crap about Trump being a Russian asset who hired prostitutes while in Moscow without providing any dates, any reasons nor any motivation.

So, compared to that, the idea the NFL might tilt the scales in a playoff game seem far less crazy than what's been on CNN lately.

[barrett]

Sorta like the media reporting repeatedly that Russia stole the election without providing any proof of *how* their involvement changed the result or showing any tangible link that they even tried. Not to mention the whole bull crap about Trump being a Russian asset who hired prostitutes while in Moscow without providing any dates, any reasons nor any motivation.

So, compared to that, the idea the NFL might tilt the scales in a playoff game seem far less crazy than what's been on CNN lately.

Did I just come to the wrong site?

[chuck]

Did I just come to the wrong site?

I've been telling you people for years that Bob is fking crazy. Maybe you thought I was kidding.

[HPF Bob]

Back to the game...

How many punts will we have in the first quarter? Single digits?

[chuck]

Here we go, men.

[Arky]

Back to the game...

How many punts will we have in the first quarter? Single digits?

Haha!

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Pats win the toss and defer. Texans to receive.

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Opening kickoff is a touchback. Texan's ball at their 25.

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Pass to Hop gets 4.

L Miller for about 2. 3rd and 4 coming up.

Oz can't find a receiver and gets sacked. Texans have to punt.

Punt is brought back to about the Pats 39. Pat's ball.

13:01 left in the 1st qtr.

[Arky]

Pass to Edelman gets 5.

Lewis for 4. 3rd and 1 coming up.

Lewis gets caught for a loss of 1. Pats will punt on 4th and 2.

Ervin fair catches the punt at the Texan 19. Texan's ball.

11:05 left in the 1st qtr.

[chuck]

Already two things that I dreaded seeing - Chris Clark sucking and Tyler Ervin on the punt return.

Seriously, there is no mfer on any practice squad anywhere that is better than Chris Clark? Seriously? He is to line play what BO is to quarterbacking.

Also, while I'm complaining, why in tf is Simon on the active roster if he can't play today?

[Arky]

L Miller for 2.

Oy, pass to Fuller off the mark, inc. Brings up 3rd and 8.

Pass to Mumph broken up, inc. Texans will have to punt.

Pats fair catch the punt at their 35 yard line. Pat's ball.

10:10 left in the 1st qtr.

[popanot]

Brock being Brock, and yep, here come the crap calls by the refs.

[Arky]

Ah, deep pass draws the PI on Bouye. Places the ball at the Texan 35.

Pass to Hogan on the sideline goes to the Texan 13.

Flare pass to Lewis is good for the TD.

Pats 7, Texans 0

9:27 left in the 1st qtr.

[Big Texas]

Exactly the start that everyone expected. Terrible offense and defense exposed by top notch play calling...

[Arky]

Gotta answer, boys....

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Hunt brings the ensuing kickoff back to the Texan 24. Texan's ball.

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Flare pass to Hunt gets 4 but a flag is down..... PI on Hop, -10. Makes it 1st and 20.

Pass to Fuller gets 7. 2nd and 13 coming up.

Oz gets sacked. Loss of 5. Brings up 3rd and 18.

Short pass over the middle to Hop gets about 9 or 10. Flags down......personal foul on the Pats (wow!)....15 yards and a 1st down.

L Miller goes right side for 5. 2nd and 4 coming up.

Dump off to L Miller gets 6 and the 1st down.

L Miller up the gut for 7. Ball at the Pat 42.

L Miller for 1. 3rd and 2 coming up.

Pass to Grimes gets 5 and the 1st down.

Pass to Fido gets 9. 2nd and 1 coming up. Ball at the Pat 26.

Grimes goes to the Pat 21 yard line, 1st down.

Eeesh, pass to Fido in the end zone is off his hands, inc.

L Miller goes left side for 4. 3rd and 6 coming up.

Pass to Hunt only gets 2. Texans will go for the FG.

Novak's 33-yarder is good.

Pats 7, Texans 3

1:15 left in the 1st qtr.

[chuck]

More disgusting red zone play calling.

I don't know for sure but it looks like BOB is calling the plays today.

[Arky]

Need a stop, defense.......

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The ensuing kickoff is brought back by Lewis all the way for the TD, 98 yards.

Pats 14, Texans 3

1 minute left in the 1st qtr.

[Big Texas]

Attack of the FG kings...

What a way to start this game...

[chuck]

It's a Texans playoff tradition.

Fire these mother****************ers, I mean, ****************.

[Arky]

Hunt brings the ensuing kickoff back to the Texan 28. Texan's ball.

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Screen to Fuller gets 2.

Pass to Mumph gets 7. 3rd and 1 coming up.

End of the 1st qtr.

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On 3rd and 1, Oz throws short to L Miller for a loss of 1. Texans have to punt.

Lechler's punt goes into the end zone, touchback. Pat's ball at their 20.

14:32 left in the half.

[Big Texas]

Who the hell is #20? I watched this dude make two terrible special teams plays...One that led to a run back for a TD

[Arky]

That's my Bouye! Tipped pass is INT'ed! Texan's ball at the Pat 27!

[popanot]

Would somebody on offense make a fricken play? Bad throws, dropped passes in the end zone, penalties, wimpy runs. This is nuts!

[Big Texas]

Why do I feel like Grimes and Hunt run the ball better than every other back on the team...

[Arky]

Pass to Fuller gets 7.

L Miller for 4. Gotta punch it in, fellas....

On 1st down, pass in the end zone to Fido is nearly INT'ed. Flag on the Texans for holding backs it up 10. 1st and 20 coming up.

L Miller sweeps right for 4. 2nd and 16 coming up.

Pass to Fuller along the sideline is too tall, inc. 3rd and 16 coming up.

Screen to Hunt goes to the 8 yard line. Brings up 4th and 2, Texans going for the FG.

Novak's 27-yarder is good.

Pats 14, Texans 6

11:36 left in the half.

[Big Texas]

FG kings strike again

[Arky]

Who the hell is #20? I watched this dude make two terrible special teams plays...One that led to a run back for a TD

Don Jones. Got faked out on the fair catch, didn't he?

[Arky]

Real cute stat, CBS.

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Pats fumble the ensuing kickoff! Texans ball at the Pat 14!

[chuck]

Don Jones. Got faked out on the fair catch, didn't he?

Former Patriot. We're playing with these fkers. Brock is not the reason that we're behind. If we had any sort of special teams things would be different.

[Arky]

Ball marked at the Pat 12.

L Miller for 2.

On 2nd and 8, pass to Fido in the end zone, wide open for the TD!

Pats 14, Texans 13

10:49 left in the half.

Good call and execution on that TD....

[chuck]

Like I said, we're playing with these corksoakers.

[Arky]

The ensuing kickoff is brought back to the Pat 17. Pat's ball.

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Blount for 2.

Short pass to Bennett gets 3. 3rd and 5 coming up.

Brady is sacked! Pats will have to punt....

Fuller brings the punt back to the Pat 49. Texans ball.

Points, boys...

[Arky]

Whoa, bad miss to L Miller, inc. 2nd and 10 coming up..

L Miller for 5. 3rd and 5 coming up.

Pass to Hop off the mark, inc. Texans will have to punt.

Punt is returned the Pat 17 yard line. Pat's ball.

7:48 left in the half.

[Arky]

Pass to Lewis off the mark, inc.

On 2nd and 10, deep pass to Lewis broken up, inc. Brings up 3rd and 10.

Jeez, Cory Moore. Deep pass is good for 45.

Pass to Bennett goes inc. 2nd and 10 coming up.

Lewis carries for 4. 3rd and 6 coming up.

Merci with the sack! Yes! Out of FG range! Pats to punt.

Punt goes out of bounds at the Texans 4 yard line.

6:06 left in the half.

[Arky]

L Miller for 4.

On 2nd and 6, L Miller carries for 3. 3rd and 3 coming up.

Oz's pass broken up, inc. Nearly INT'ed. Texans will punt.

Punt is brought back to the Texan 48 but a flag is down.....block in the back on the Pats backs it up to their 33. Pat's ball.

3:54 left the half.

[popanot]

Osweiler had a guy open downfield on that 3rd down play and didn't see him. His vision is about 10 from the LOS if it isn't a designed deep play. Ugh.

[chuck]

RAC's schemes tonight are absolutely unbelievable in their creativity. And their effectiveness. It would be great, though, if they'd call blatant offensive pass interference.

[Arky]

Lewis for 1.

Brady pressured, throws too quick, inc. Nice pressure, Clowney....

Deep pass to Edelman is good for a big gainer, nice push off (hello, refs?). Ball at the Texans 18.

Lewis for 2.

2 minute warning.

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Lewis carries for 6. 3rd and 2 coming up.

Short pass to Hogan goes to the 3 yard line. 1st and goal.

Brady has all day and finally scrambles to the 1 yard line. 2nd and goal coming up.

Pass to Develin goes to the ½ yard line. 3rd and goal coming up. 19 seconds left in the half.

Blount gets stopped! Makes it 4th and goal. Pats going for the FG.

Gostkowski's 19-yarder is good.

Pats 17, Texans 13

7 seconds left in the half.

Ha! We got 'em playin' the FG game.....

[Arky]

Fuller brings the squibby kickoff back to the Texan 35.

Time runs out.

Halftime.

Pats 17, Texans 13

[chuck]

Goddamnit, I'm proud of this defense so far.

We needed to capitalize more on some of their miscues but hell, here we are.

The worst news is that Ervin is out with a concussion. I don't know what the return game will do without him.

[nunusguy]

So far it's a ball game. But you've got to know the Pats will come out pissed-off and focused in the 2nd half.
But we are up 2-0 in turnovers and we should be in better shape right now but I'll take it based upon what my initial expectations were.

[Big Texas]

If the offense can sustain drives...and give the defense time to rest I think our D can give these guys trouble...

[HPF Bob]

The only bad call from the officials in the first half was a clear PI on Mercilus that was missed. Then again, the questionable hankies usually don't show up til the second half.

Pats may have made the mistake of keeping the Texans in the game with those two turnovers. I'm sure the suits at CBS are feeling relieved. They came close to losing an entire Saturday night of TV ratings.

[Arky]

They have a shot. Yes, they do.

Someone needs to put the ol' whammy down on Edelman..

[chuck]

So far it's a ball game. But you've got to know the Pats will come out pissed-off and focused in the 2nd half.
But we are up 2-0 in turnovers and we should be in better shape right now but I'll take it based upon what my initial expectations were.

Hopefully the Texans will come out pissed off and focused, too. Let's get a quick stop and put some points on the board.

I have tremendous respect for the Patriots as an organization. They have the league's best owner, its best head coach, possibly the best ever, and its best quarterback, possibly the best ever. But the music that those acid-washed jeans mullet headed freaks play during times out is the worst dogshit I could possibly imagine.

[chuck]

The only bad call from the officials in the first half was a clear PI on Mercilus that was missed. Then again, the questionable hankies usually don't show up til the second half.

Pats may have made the mistake of keeping the Texans in the game with those two turnovers. I'm sure the suits at CBS are feeling relieved. They came close to losing an entire Saturday night of TV ratings.

What about the Russian simulcast?

[Arky]

2nd half kickoff is a touchback. Pat's ball at their 25.

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Ooh, Bouye with the almost INT.....inc.

Blount for 2. 3rd and 8 coming up.

Brady pressured, throws inc to Lewis. Pats have to punt.

Fuller brings the punt back to the Texan 36. Texan's ball.

[Arky]

L Miller! Gain of 17. Ball at the Pat 47.

Man, Oz throws inc to L Miller in the flat. 2nd and 10 coming up.

L Miller for 7. 3rd and 3 coming up.

Oz's pass is deflected, inc. Texans will punt.

Pats fair catch the punt at their 9 yard line. Pat's ball.

12:30 left in the 3rd qtr.

[Big Texas]

It would've been great to come away with something on that drive...you cannot keep hoping that Brady won't do anything. ..

[Arky]

Jeez, pass to Edelman goes for 26 at the sideline.

Pass to Edelman goes to midfield. Gain of 14.

Blount gets loose for big gain but flag is down.... holding on the Pats, -8. Brings up 1st and 18.

Pass to Hogan goes to the Texan 37, 1st down.

Short pass to Edelman goes for 7.

Lewis spins for about 4 and the 1st down at the Texan 267.

Pass to Edelman goes for 7. 2nd and 3 coming up.

Brady's pass is tipped, inc. 3rd and 3 coming up.

Pass to White in the end zone is good for the TD. 19 yards.

Pats 24, Texans 13

9:09 left in the 3rd qtr.

[Big Texas]

BTW Moore sucks...

Oh yeah...anyone seen DHop? Or did he go into hiding. ..

[Big Texas]

It would've been great to come away with something on that drive...you cannot keep hoping that Brady won't do anything. ..

Yep...There it is...

[chuck]

Oh yeah...anyone seen DHop? Or did he go into hiding. ..


Maybe now they'll try to spread the field and stretch the field a bit and he'll figure into things a bit more.

Or maybe not.

[Arky]

Need a shutout the rest of the way, defense....

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The ensuing kickoff is a touchback. Texan's ball at their 25.

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Pass to Hop gets 15.

L Miller for 2. 2nd and 8 coming up.

Checkdown to L Miller goes for 4. 3rd and 4 coming up.

Oh jeez, Oz throws the INT. Pat's ball at their 44.

[Big Texas]

Is there a stat for how many picks Brock has thrown trying to target DHop?😡

[Arky]

Brady's pass to Bennett is broken up, inc.

Brady can't find a receiver and throws it away, inc. 3rd and 10 coming up.

Dang, pass to Edelman gets the 1st down at the Texan 30.

Brady pressured, throws inc.

Ditto, Brady pressured throws it away, inc. but flag is down... PI on the Pats (wow).... Makes it 2nd and 20 coming up.

Brady's pass off the mark to Edelman, inc. 3rd and 20 coming up.

Pass to Amendola ruled inc. Pats have to punt.

Punt is downed by the Pats at the Texan 2. Texan's ball.

5:56 left in the 3rd qtr.

[Arky]

Is there a stat for how many picks Brock has thrown trying to target DHop?��

Don't know but it's gotta be 90% or so.....

[Arky]

Jesus, Fido. Drops the pass, inc.

On 2nd and 10, pass to Hop gets out to the 21 yard line, 1st down.

L Miller for no gain. 2nd and 10 coming up.

Pass to L Miller over the middle gets 5. 3rd and 5 coming up.

Oz uses a timeout.

Oz drops back then scrambles for the 1st down at the Texan 45.

L Miller carries for 4 but a flag is down....illegal use of the hands on the Pats, 5 yards and an auto 1st down.

L Miller for 2. Ball at the Pat 45.

On 2nd and 8, Oz gets hit as he throws, Pats pick it up and score the other way, flags are down.....illegal substitution on the Pats. Play is under review because that shouldn't be a fumble and Pats ball, Oz's pass was going forward in fact, no way it should have been ruled a fumble in the first place.....

Play is changed to an incomplete pass. Brings up 3rd down and 8.

Oh, my gosh, Fuller. The rare perfect pass is dropped in the end zone, inc. Texans to punt.

Punt is fair caught at the Pat 10 yard line. Pat's ball.

2:02 left in the 3rd qtr.

[chuck]

**************** you Fuller, you cocksucker.

Perfect throw by BO.

[Arky]

Lewis for 4.

Quick pass to Floyd goes for the 1st down at the Pat 23.

Pass to Bennett is ruled inc.

INT by Hal! Texans ball at the Pat 34!

[Arky]

Blue takes the pitch for 3.

On 2nd and 8, pass to Hop gets 4.

End of the 3rd qtr.

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On 3rd and 4, deep pass to Griffin over everyone, inc. Texans to go for the FG.

Novak's 46-yarder is good.

Pats 24, Texans 16

14:51 left in the game.

[chuck]

Well, this is what we wanted, isn't it? In the game in the beginning of the fourth?

I would like to see someone take Brady's head off.

[Arky]

2/14 on 3rd down is killing them...

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The ensuing kickoff is a touchback. Pat's ball at their 25.

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Blount goes left for 2.

Checkdown to Lewis goes for the 1st down. Flag on Clowney for roughing the passer. Ball at the Texan 48.

Deep pass to Edelman goes inc.

On 2nd and 10, checkdown to Edelman gets 3. 3rd and 7 coming up.

Pass to Edelman a little behind him and dropped. Pats will have to punt.

Fuller fair catches at the Texan 11. Texan's ball.

13 minutes left in the game.

[Big Texas]

The D has done everything we could have asked for...

The offense is still the same...

Someone needs to put a helmet cam on Brock to see what he's looking at...He seems to miss a shit load of underneath routes...

[Arky]

C'mon Oz, be the man..... One score game....

----------------------------------------------------

Oh man, Oz's pass is tipped by Hop and INT'ed. Pat's ball at the Texan 6.

[Arky]

Lewis goes left to the 1 yard line.

Lewis punches it in, TD.

Pats 31, Texans 16.

12:16 left in the game.

[Big Texas]

The game tying drive and you throw an absolutely SHITTY throw...that should be the end of his stint as this teams QB...

[chuck]

Nice signing you bald, cancer stricken Republican cocksucker. **************** you.

[barrett]

That's a bad throw, but Hopkins quit 3 months ago. His lack of effort has been disgusting. He aligator armed that one (and countless others). When he does catch it, he does everything he can to get down on the ground before getting tackled. I think he's slid more than our QBs this year. He runs consistently lazy routes.

It is a giant black mark on our coaching staff that he's not been held accountable in a way that's had any effect on him. He clearly decided that without the long term deal he'd play to not get hurt.

[chuck]

We're about to find out if they want to win or if, as I suspect, they want to save face on this horrific signing.

Literally every other quarterback in the league would be a better option than this dickhead.

[Arky]

The ensuing kickoff is a touchback. Texan's ball at their 25.

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L Miller for 1.

Oz gets sacked for 9. Brings up 3rd and 18.

Pass to Hop gets 12. Texans will have to punt.

Pats return the punt to their 35. Pat's ball with 10:22 left in the game.

[Big Texas]

That's a bad throw, but Hopkins quit 3 months ago. His lack of effort has been disgusting. He aligator armed that one (and countless others). When he does catch it, he does everything he can to get down on the ground before getting tackled. I think he's slid more than our QBs this year. He runs consistently lazy routes.

It is a giant black mark on our coaching staff that he's not been held accountable in a way that's had any effect on him. He clearly decided that without the long term deal he'd play to not get hurt.

I've been saying the same thing...He has been none existent ALL season...teams are not afraid to press him and he is NOT getting open or even creating separation...

[chuck]

Yet last year DHop was all-world. Sure, it's Hopkins with alligator arms. All of this is Nuke's fault. By all means let him go and extend everyone else.

You dumbasses should fax your resumes in to Kirby. Who knows, when RS gets caught diddling a 14 year old maybe you too can be a GM. Just make sure you go to the right church.

Dumbasses.

[barrett]

I've been saying the same thing...He has been none existent ALL season...teams are not afraid to press him and he is NOT getting open or even creating separation...

It's an effort thing, plain and simple. Lazy routes. No effort. Tons of self preservation. He's either trying to play his way out of here, or he's just not going to try for a team that won't pay him. The worse thing is we did nothing about it and kept forcing the ball his way, even though he clearly didn't want it. I guess someone thought he'd be happier with catches/targets.

[Arky]

Need a stop, defense... it ain't over, yet....

-------------------------------------------------

Blount for 4.

End around to Edelman gets 13 and the 1st down.

Deep pass to Edelman is inc.

Reverse to Amendola goes for 15.

Lewis gets 9. Ball at the Texan 26.

Lewis gets 3 and the 1st down. Heath injured on the play. Bennett injured on the play. Injury timeout.

Brady's pass goes out of bounds near the goal line, inc. 2nd and 10 coming up. 7:44 left in the game.

Brady can't find a receiver and throws it away, inc. 3rd and 10 coming up.

Lewis goes left for 2 and fumbles but the Pats fall on it. Pats to go for the FG.

Gostkowski's 43-yarder is good.

Pats 34, Texans 16

6:37 left in the game.

[barrett]

Yet last year DHop was all-world. Sure, it's Hopkins with alligator arms. All of this is Nuke's fault. By all means let him go and extend everyone else.

You dumbasses should fax your resumes in to Kirby. Who knows, when RS gets caught diddling a 14 year old maybe you too can be a GM. Just make sure you go to the right church.

Dumbasses.

I led off with saying it's a bad throw. What more do you want me to say. Osweiller is garbage. Is that all of a sudden new and noteworthy? He never should have been signed, or given a job. I've been more critical of him than anyone, and I started the day we signed him. It was obvious he was bad a year ago. Do I need to lead every post with that?

I think it's fine for me to complain about WR and QB, but you're just a colossal douche.

[barrett]

If I try hard enough I can find a way to defend this. He's not a rookie and at the very least you know he can play some. A couple of the rookies coming out this year will probably be very good in a few years and a couple will flame out entirely. The Texans minimize the risk of a total flameout in exchange for giving the guy veteran money. I might not have done things this way but as I said I can find a way to defend it.

Also, it gives the team the freedom to go BPA at every point in the draft. And since it looks like they're going to come away with Miller, too, they have tons of options.

You're an idiot Chuck. How can you think Rick Smith was right? Are you a flunky for Bob McNair? Why would you even want to defend those guys? You're a palm licking moron and you vote republican. What do you mean by you know he can play some? He can't play at all. But I guess you can play with your boyfriend Bob McNair and you guys can donate to the republican party together.

[Big Texas]

Yet last year DHop was all-world. Sure, it's Hopkins with alligator arms. All of this is Nuke's fault. By all means let him go and extend everyone else.

You dumbasses should fax your resumes in to Kirby. Who knows, when RS gets caught diddling a 14 year old maybe you too can be a GM. Just make sure you go to the right church.

Dumbasses.

By no means is this ALL DHops fault...As a matter of fact a LARGE majority of the blame goes to Brock...However I don't give a shit WHO you are no one is exempt from taking the blame for their part in the loss...including DHOP.

AJ green, Julio Jones, and Antonio Brown are ELITE receivers and despite consistent double teams they put up numbers weekly. So if you wanna claim "all world" put up numbers to back it up...

[Arky]

The ensuing kickoff is a touchback. Texan's ball at their 25.

----------------------------------------------------

Dump to Grimes gets 11.

Oz's pass is messed up and goes inc.

Grimes for 5. 3rd and 5 coming up.

Pass to Fido goes to the Pats 42, 1st down.

Pass to Grimes gets 10, 1st down. Ball at the Pat 32.

Oz can't find a receiver and scrambles for a couple but a flag is down.... holding on Clark, -10. 1st and 20 coming up.

Screen to Grimes gets about 15. 2nd and 5 coming up with 3:29 left in the game.

And Oz does the overthrow for the INT. Pats bring it back to their 34. Pat's ball with 3:08 left in the game.

[barrett]

Did I do that right Chuck? Were the random political remarks random enough? Were the insults sufficiently colorful and obscure?

[Arky]

Blount for 1.

Blount gets loose for 18, 1st down. Ball at the Texan 47.

2 minute warning.

--------------------------------------------------------

Pats are kneeling it.

Final score:

Pats 34, Texans 16

Pats were ripe for the plucking but the bad Jags (Texans) team showed up in the second half....

[chuck]

Did I do that right Chuck? Were the random political remarks random enough? Were the insults sufficiently colorful and obscure?

I was being a fan, dickhead. I wanted BO to work. He didn't. He sucks as much dick as Baldy does. I was measured.

If I try hard enough I can find a way to defend this.

Can we say I was not overly enthusiastic?

Suck my dick, you revisionist prick.

[chuck]

****************ing idiots can't even cover the spread. Of course Baldy McNeck will keep everyone around, outSTANDing job. **************** me, Izzo is head coaching material around here.

[barrett]

You're borderline Pavlovian on this stuff Chuck. I say a post criticizing Brock, Hopkins, and our coaching staff and you don't think I'm sufficiently negative in the right direction, so you start raving about Bob McNair and republicans.

In the mind of a sane person there is absolutely no connection between my post and your response.

[chuck]

You're borderline Pavlovian on this stuff Chuck. I say a post criticizing Brock, Hopkins, and our coaching staff and you don't think I'm sufficiently negative in the right direction, so you start raving about Bob McNair and republicans.

In the mind of a sane person there is absolutely no connection between my post and your response.

WTF is wrong with you? Are you a fan of the team? Do you think they're in a place where they can realistically challenge for the AFC title next year? Yes? you're a lunatic. No? you're a troll.

What's your issue with me? That I hate McNair? I do. I own it. What else?

[chuck]

BOB's offense has regressed each year. He's an offensive coach. They have no QB. Whose fault is that? Only Baldy McNeck knows.

[barrett]

WTF is wrong with you? Are you a fan of the team? Do you think they're in a place where they can realistically challenge for the AFC title next year? Yes? you're a lunatic. No? you're a troll.

What's your issue with me? That I hate McNair? I do. I own it. What else?

Is it that hard to figure out? I made a post about Hopkins and you went raving mad and insulted me a dozen different ways about stuff that had nothing to do with me. Now you ask what my problem is?

[chuck]

Is it that hard to figure out? I made a post about Hopkins and you went raving mad and insulted me a dozen different ways about stuff that had nothing to do with me. Now you ask what my problem is?

I wasn't even responding to you, you goon. I was talking to Big Tex.

Of course if your ego requires it go ahead and assume that everything I say involves you.

[barrett]

I wasn't even responding to you, you goon. I was talking to Big Tex.

Of course if your ego requires it go ahead and assume that everything I say involves you.

Now you're a liar and a mad man. Unless you often refer to Big Tex in the plural.

[chuck]

And, of course, placing this debacle on Nuke is lunacy. If you want to take that stance then I'll dismiss your opinions out of hand like I do those of Buford T. Hulsey.

[chuck]

Now you're a liar and a mad man. Unless you often refer to Big Tex in the plural.

Do I think there's more than one dumbass around here? Why, yes, I do.

[barrett]

Do I think there's more than one dumbass around here? Why, yes, I do.

Which is it Chuck? Were you talking to Big Tex or the board at large? If you are going to insult someone stand by it.

[chuck]

Which is it Chuck? Were you talking to Big Tex or the board at large? If you are going to insult someone stand by it.

Do you really want me to go out of my way to insult you for thinking that Nuke is the central problem of this team's offense? Really?

Come on, man.

Anyone who thinks that Nuke is a primary issue here is a moron.

[barrett]

Do you really want me to go out of my way to insult you for thinking that Nuke is the central problem of this team's offense? Really?

Come on, man.

Anyone who thinks that Nuke is a primary issue here is a moron.

Nice strawman Chuck. Nobody wrote anything to even hint he is the primary problem.

[HPF Bob]

Overall, it wasn't a bad year. I would take this season over the dumpster fire we had against the Chiefs. We met a giant roadblock called the New England Patriots but, guess what?, the rest of the AFC has the same problem.

Despite keeping it close for three quarters, it was interesting to me that every last one of our problems took their turns defeating us. Let me count the ways:

1. Special teams meltdown: That's six easy points the Patriots did not need.
2. Kareem Jackson. He can't cover a pregnant grandmother. The White Bread Patriots spent all day catching balls in his territory. Fine tackler for a corner. Can't cover for shit.
3. Bernardrick McKinney. Brady sent backs and TEs on passing routes against him anytime they could. He simply doesn't have the speed to keep up with them. We need a different guy in obvious passing downs on the field in his place.
4. Will Fuller V fought the ball and the - ball won. The over-the-shoulder drop in the third quarter was critical. You could hear them nailing the coffin when V let that pass through his hands. Deep threats with shitty hands don't rate well in my book, particularly first-rounders.
5. Unimaginative play-calling. *snore*

6. And Brock Osweiler as the Beaver. ESPN had a fascinating stat last week. Over 75% of Brock's picks happened trying to throw to DeAndre Hopkins. Who was Ossie throwing to in his two picks tonight? It's #10. Surprise!! Of course, when he does throw on target, Fido or Fuller V drop it. Then he also tossed some Tebows which is why the fans are on his case.

Amazingly, the offensive line had a fantastic night keeping Ozzie upright and not picking up holding calls (with a few exceptions). I think they just exposed the Patriots for the rest of the postseason. If NE can't get to Ozzie, there's no way they will pressure Rothlenstein. If Pissburgh can get by KC, they actually have a chance in the AFCCG to upset the Patsy Boys.

[HPF Bob]

Don't worry about Chuckles and his drunken tirade. He's out celebrating those brainy New Englanders by going to Somalia for pizza and cheese. :rolleyes:

[chuck]

Nice strawman Chuck. Nobody wrote anything to even hint he is the primary problem.

At this point I have no idea what you think the primary problem is. You and BT went off on Nuke, though, like he were somehow culpable for the team's inability to find a quarterback. You have said many times that he's quit on the Texans. I reject that narrative completely. It is no different than the racist nonsense that stupid freaks always try to push. AJ, Arian, all have had to endure this sort of bullshit.

That's a bad throw, but Hopkins quit 3 months ago. His lack of effort has been disgusting. He aligator armed that one (and countless others). When he does catch it, he does everything he can to get down on the ground before getting tackled. I think he's slid more than our QBs this year. He runs consistently lazy routes.

That's you, dude. I don't see any lack of effort; I see a lack of a quarterback to throw him the mfuking ball.

In three years we'll see who is still in the league. You tell me - who? Hop or BO? I'll take Hop.

[chuck]

Don't worry about Chuckles and his drunken tirade. He's out celebrating those brainy New Englanders by going to Somalia for pizza and cheese.

Sweet! I'll see you in Mogadishu. I know you despise regulation. And I can see why. You know, the feds might very well try to mandate the circumference and exterior pressure of your headset. Hell with that shit, right?

Although, really, let's face it - for a small government fanatic like you Haiti is really the closest option. Meet you there, mon frere.

[barrett]

At this point I have no idea what you think the primary problem is. You and BT went off on Nuke, though, like he were somehow culpable for the team's inability to find a quarterback. You have said many times that he's quit on the Texans. I reject that narrative completely. It is no different than the racist nonsense that stupid freaks always try to push. AJ, Arian, all have had to endure this sort of bullshit.

That's a bad throw, but Hopkins quit 3 months ago. His lack of effort has been disgusting. He aligator armed that one (and countless others). When he does catch it, he does everything he can to get down on the ground before getting tackled. I think he's slid more than our QBs this year. He runs consistently lazy routes.

That's you, dude. I don't see any lack of effort; I see a lack of a quarterback to throw him the mfuking ball.

In three years we'll see who is still in the league. You tell me - who? Hop or BO? I'll take Hop.

There you go again with the strawman arguments. You can't ask me who will be in the league because that has nothing to do with it. You're just setting up arguments nobody ever made and attacking them like it gives you a point. It doesn't. I've been against Brock from day 1 (unlike you). I've not said a single positive word about him in this thread. But you act like its a zero sum game where any negative word about anyone else is somehow an endorsement of McNair/Smith/Osweiller. You are either dumb (I don't believe it), drunk (???), or you are being dishonest and you know what you're doing.

You also have some obsession with coloring every sports argument with non-sports issues. Somehow Bob McNair's football issues are related to political party, Bill O'Brien's issues with Rick Smith are about culture and regionalism, and my issues with Hopkins are about race. You can do your best to project these issues on me, but they simply aren't there.

[chuck]

Do you have a point? If so, please state it and perhaps we can go from there.

[Arky]

Overall, it wasn't a bad year. I would take this season over the dumpster fire we had against the Chiefs. We met a giant roadblock called the New England Patriots but, guess what?, the rest of the AFC has the same problem.

Despite keeping it close for three quarters, it was interesting to me that every last one of our problems took their turns defeating us. Let me count the ways:

1. Special teams meltdown: That's six easy points the Patriots did not need.
2. Kareem Jackson. He can't cover a pregnant grandmother. The White Bread Patriots spent all day catching balls in his territory. Fine tackler for a corner. Can't cover for shit.
3. Bernardrick McKinney. Brady sent backs and TEs on passing routes against him anytime they could. He simply doesn't have the speed to keep up with them. We need a different guy in obvious passing downs on the field in his place.
4. Will Fuller V fought the ball and the - ball won. The over-the-shoulder drop in the third quarter was critical. You could hear them nailing the coffin when V let that pass through his hands. Deep threats with shitty hands don't rate well in my book, particularly first-rounders.
5. Unimaginative play-calling. *snore*

6. And Brock Osweiler as the Beaver. ESPN had a fascinating stat last week. Over 75% of Brock's picks happened trying to throw to DeAndre Hopkins. Who was Ossie throwing to in his two picks tonight? It's #10. Surprise!! Of course, when he does throw on target, Fido or Fuller V drop it. Then he also tossed some Tebows which is why the fans are on his case.

Amazingly, the offensive line had a fantastic night keeping Ozzie upright and not picking up holding calls (with a few exceptions). I think they just exposed the Patriots for the rest of the postseason. If NE can't get to Ozzie, there's no way they will pressure Rothlenstein. If Pissburgh can get by KC, they actually have a chance in the AFCCG to upset the Patsy Boys.

Ya, I'm on board with most all of this. Kareem Jackson's new specialty is the 35 yard PI call. Kevin Johnson is sorely missed.

Texans were penalized 5/75. Pats were 5/50. I don't think anyone can point to the refs as a factor in this one.... Maybe a missed call here or there but overall, nothing criminal.....

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the entire/overall dysfunction of the offense.... When Oz is on target, they drop it. He's not on target much which makes the drops more difficult to stomach. Not-on-target leads to deflected balls, incompletions, INTs..... It would help if he didn't throw like a 2nd baseman...

Liked the reference to Texas-own Bobby Fuller 4 and their 60's hit, I fought the law (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgtQj8O92eI)... Eheh... :thumbs up:

[nunusguy]

Overall, it wasn't a bad year. I would take this season over the dumpster fire we had against the Chiefs. We met a giant roadblock called the New England Patriots but, guess what?, the rest of the AFC has the same problem.



OK so that's petty much my sentiments this morning, and I'm not saying last night was some kind of moral victory but it sure isn't the shellacking we took at the end of last year at the hands of the Chiefs in the W-C PO game. 30-0 right ? That was brutal, that was devastating.
Now we some kind of defense and thanks to them we played tough, we played competitive ball with the Pats thru 3 quarters, but even they need more help than they got last night from the offense to go all the way with a team the caliber of the Patriots.
Is the QB position as big a question and as uncertain this morning as it was this time last year ? Yea I guess it is, but dammit if some receivers like Fuller and Fido could just catch a few more balls that drop right in their hands so it's not all Brocks fault.
And whether in the Draft or free agency we've got to get somebody to play right tackle but I think at LT Duane Brown might have another year or two remaining in the tank. In the interior of the OLine (guard/center) we are fairly close to having 3 legit starters so long as rookie Nick Martin can come back healthy for 2017.

[Big Texas]

By no means is this ALL DHops fault...As a matter of fact a LARGE majority of the blame goes to Brock...However I don't give a shit WHO you are no one is exempt from taking the blame for their part in the loss...including DHOP.

AJ green, Julio Jones, and Antonio Brown are ELITE receivers and despite consistent double teams they put up numbers weekly. So if you wanna claim "all world" put up numbers to back it up...

I guess I have to quote myself in order for Chuck to understand. Nowhere does it say this game is all DHop's fault...

I am merely pointing out that a large number of the passes that Brock throws to DHop are covered. Very little or no separation at all...stop giving him a pass just because he's the best we have on offense.

He's got to get better point blank if we wanna win. The Patriots had ****************in Hogan and Edelman creating 2-3 yards of separation on us...is it unreasonable to ask Hopkins to aspire to do the same? Especially if he knows the QB SUCKS...and yes he sucks...

That's what Andre had to do his whole career, step his game up because the QB here has always been terrible.

For whatever reason the last few years DHop has put on a show. However, this year he has been above average at best.

He is not exempt from getting better.

Maybe they need more offseason work together...I don't know...but what I do know is teams can't keep pressing us off the line with a 2 deep shell and taking our passing game completely out of the game. Somebody's gotta win those match ups and it starts with DHop...POINT BLANK.

[Big Texas]

With that said...

My assessment of the year is:

The Good

1. The D has without a doubt established itself as elite. (Without JJ)

2. Despite his struggles in the passing game Mckinney is becoming a star. (Billicheck just did what he always does, find your weakness and exploits it).

3. AJ Bouye has surpassed every expectation. Getting league wide recognition.

4. DJ Reader looks like he will be the real deal for the future.

5. Clowney and Merciless are nothing nice...elite level pass rushers and just as good run stoppers.

The Bad

1. The OLINE needs a complete overhaul. (Dear God please let Nick Martin pan out).

2. Separation on the part of the receivers.

3. Playcalling...I just knew the addition of Ervin and Hunt would mean more swing routes and screens...just all around creativity in the passing game...Not so much

4. Fullers hands...enough said

The Ugly

1. Brock...
-slow delivery
-terribly inaccurate
-decision making under pressure is abysmal
-can't make the protection calls


Overall this defense has single handedly got us to the second round of the playoffs. And for 3 quarters hung in there with the Patriots.

Some of the offenses struggles can be fixed with better Playcalling and more familiarity with the system and each other. However, if Brock has started to get that David Carr look in his eyes, all hope is lost for him.

[chuck]

I guess I have to quote myself in order for Chuck to understand. Nowhere does it say this game is all DHop's fault...

I am merely pointing out that a large number of the passes that Brock throws to DHop are covered. Very little or no separation at all...stop giving him a pass just because he's the best we have on offense.

He's got to get better point blank if we wanna win. The Patriots had ****************in Hogan and Edelman creating 2-3 yards of separation on us...is it unreasonable to ask Hopkins to aspire to do the same? Especially if he knows the QB SUCKS...and yes he sucks...

That's what Andre had to do his whole career, step his game up because the QB here has always been terrible.

For whatever reason the last few years DHop has put on a show. However, this year he has been above average at best.

He is not exempt from getting better.

Maybe they need more offseason work together...I don't know...but what I do know is teams can't keep pressing us off the line with a 2 deep shell and taking our passing game completely out of the game. Somebody's gotta win those match ups and it starts with DHop...POINT BLANK.

This is so bizarre it's hard to know where to begin. We're talking about the NFL. It's not like Fun Football where the best player on the field can, by sheer force of will, run completely unmolested all over the field. With most routes a receiver is open only momentarily as he comes out of his break or finds a soft spot in the zone or whatever it is. Hence the term NFL open. I know you know this which is why I find it so annoying to be arguing this with you.

Do you ever wonder why Hopkins is better with literally every other Texans quarterback than he is with Brock? More catches, better numbers, etc.? Is it because he simply decides to get open when playing with Savage or Hoyer or Fitzpatrick or whoever? Or is it because Brock Osweiler sucks dick and never fking delivers the ball on time?

The Patriots' receivers weren't usually wide ass open (unless possibly KJ was the guy covering them), it just seems like it because they have the best player in the league as their quarterback and that guy knows when to get the ball to a receiver.

Another thing, if a guy like Belichick decides to take away a certain offensive option there's not much you can do except adapt and rely on other options. John Harris was saying that he listened to the sideline audio from the Pats game earlier in the year and that all game Belichick was yelling TEN!, TEN! Meaning the Texans' number ten is the guy the Pats defense needs to be concerning themselves with. So, two takeaways. One is that one man's mailing it in is another man's getting double and triple teamed. Two is that the best head coach in the history of the mking sport recognizes Deandre Hopkins as the Texans' best (only?) weapon while a bunch of redneck keyboard jockeys sit around bitching about his supposed lack of effort.

[barrett]

This is so bizarre it's hard to know where to begin. We're talking about the NFL. It's not like Fun Football where the best player on the field can, by sheer force of will, run completely unmolested all over the field. With most routes a receiver is open only momentarily as he comes out of his break or finds a soft spot in the zone or whatever it is. Hence the term NFL open. I know you know this which is why I find it so annoying to be arguing this with you.

Do you ever wonder why Hopkins is better with literally every other Texans quarterback than he is with Brock? More catches, better numbers, etc.? Is it because he simply decides to get open when playing with Savage or Hoyer or Fitzpatrick or whoever? Or is it because Brock Osweiler sucks dick and never fking delivers the ball on time?

The Patriots' receivers weren't usually wide ass open (unless possibly KJ was the guy covering them), it just seems like it because they have the best player in the league as their quarterback and that guy knows when to get the ball to a receiver.

Another thing, if a guy like Belichick decides to take away a certain offensive option there's not much you can do except adapt and rely on other options. John Harris was saying that he listened to the sideline audio from the Pats game earlier in the year and that all game Belichick was yelling TEN!, TEN! Meaning the Texans' number ten is the guy the Pats defense needs to be concerning themselves with. So, two takeaways. One is that one man's mailing it in is another man's getting double and triple teamed. Two is that the best head coach in the history of the mking sport recognizes Deandre Hopkins as the Texans' best (only?) weapon while a bunch of redneck keyboard jockeys sit around bitching about his supposed lack of effort.

Sober Chuck actually made a point here, but in the end he couldn't resist going off the rails. You have again attached not being a big enough fan of Hopkins (or a big enough critic of Osweiller) with being a redneck. Please tell me how one connects to the other.

[Big Texas]

This is so bizarre it's hard to know where to begin. We're talking about the NFL. It's not like Fun Football where the best player on the field can, by sheer force of will, run completely unmolested all over the field. With most routes a receiver is open only momentarily as he comes out of his break or finds a soft spot in the zone or whatever it is. Hence the term NFL open. I know you know this which is why I find it so annoying to be arguing this with you.

Do you ever wonder why Hopkins is better with literally every other Texans quarterback than he is with Brock? More catches, better numbers, etc.? Is it because he simply decides to get open when playing with Savage or Hoyer or Fitzpatrick or whoever? Or is it because Brock Osweiler sucks dick and never fking delivers the ball on time?

The Patriots' receivers weren't usually wide ass open (unless possibly KJ was the guy covering them), it just seems like it because they have the best player in the league as their quarterback and that guy knows when to get the ball to a receiver.

Another thing, if a guy like Belichick decides to take away a certain offensive option there's not much you can do except adapt and rely on other options. John Harris was saying that he listened to the sideline audio from the Pats game earlier in the year and that all game Belichick was yelling TEN!, TEN! Meaning the Texans' number ten is the guy the Pats defense needs to be concerning themselves with. So, two takeaways. One is that one man's mailing it in is another man's getting double and triple teamed. Two is that the best head coach in the history of the mking sport recognizes Deandre Hopkins as the Texans' best (only?) weapon while a bunch of redneck keyboard jockeys sit around bitching about his supposed lack of effort.

2 questions:

1. Is DHop free from all criticism in your eyes?

2. Can DHOP get better?

It seems as though your thought process is that DHOP is untouchable and deserves no accountability.

Again, before you say it...no I am not putting the blame ALL on Dhop. As a matter of fact the only reason we are engaged in this conversation is because you were offended by the mere thought of DHop getting critisized a little.

The truth is as we all agree...BROCK SUCKS

But DHOP has dropped some passes and allowed a rookie corner to all but play him to a stale mate this year.

Truth is...He has some room to grow...whether it is mentally or physically...I could care less...

And by the way...players can essentially DOMINATE a game in the NFL...Just look at what Julio did this year...yes its possible

[Big Texas]

And yes I did wonder why he wasn't getting open this year. I actually thought maybe he was hurt and not telling anyone. Go back and look at some of the routes he's run and you will see where the defender is step for step with him, which leads to a pass that has to be pin point perfect to complete. And we AAALLLL know Brock's not completing that...

NFL open...Interesting you bring that up because the passes completed on KJ, Mckinney, Moore, and Hal last night were not NFL open they were just OPEN...(for the most part they did well but they were definitely smoked on a number of occasions.

And again I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibilities to expect that from our top dawg on offense.

And BTW I wasn't going to acknowledge this but I'm far from a redneck... (I'm black)...and two I do coach football at the HS level and played at the HS... (which by no means makes me ANY type of expert) but in no way shape form or fashion am I a "keyboard junkie"...

So we can agree to disagree like adults without referring to name calling and stereotyping. Because you don't know anything about me.

[sinnister]

I agree with much of what has been written here. My thoughts about the game were:

1. The offense is really bad. Hop and the rest of the WR struggled to get open, just like they have all season. There were times when Oz had no where to throw the ball, and when he had throws, he either missed them, or the pass was dropped.

2. Special teams is a unit that just can't get fixed. How long has this plagued us?

3. This defense can be truly elite if Watt comes back. There are a few adjustments that need to be made, and they have to stay healthy, but they have a chance.

4. Oz was Oz. A few times when I was watching the game, I couldn't figure out what he was thinking. Inaccurate and poor decision making.

[Arky]

I'm leaning towards Chuck's assessment here in that Dhop has in the past been very good with other QB's and what is different this year is the QB. I think we all agree the QB sucks and the 90% of the finger pointing should go Oz's way. Yes, Dhop can get better. Although still relatively young, he's reaching the point where he's pretty much getting as good as he's going to get. He won't get faster or quicker..... perhaps he becomes more wily, more experienced....

A good point was made about the timing of the passes. Also, an accurate QB can place the ball where only his receiver can catch it. How many times have Brock's INT's looked like he was throwing to the DB and not Hop? A bunch, I'd say.

As far as laziness goes, I'm just not seeing it. I will say, as a receiver, if your job is to run an intermediate or deep route and the ball never comes your way, you're less likely to go 100% because you get tired of running the sprints and in the back of your mind you're thinking, "he's not throwing it my way".

Over the last few games, I've seen Hop kinda hanging near OB on the sidelines and become involved in some the sideline conversations with Godsey and the QB group. An apathetic guy wouldn't be doing that....

On Oz's last INT, it was an inaccurate pass where Hop threw up a hand and deflected the ball into an INT. Hop kept moving and was in on the tackle.....

[Big Texas]

I agree with everything your saying.

I believe what made DHOP such a standout was his catch radius. Not his speed or quicknesses. Hes never really been a speed guy.

No matter how off target or LATE Fitz or Mallet was, Hopkins was making acrobatic 1 handed disfigured catches. It wasn't that Fitz was so great...it was DHOP was SO GREAT and made Fitz look OK.

The difference in my opinion is that he is not making THOSE plays at the rate he was the last few years. The pass he tipped for the pick, just last year he made...I have the picture on my screen saver.

Can we expect him to do that ALL the time...NO. But when there's a drop off its noticeable...like this year...and yes a large part goes to Brock. But like you mentioned he's gonna have to develop more of those veteran nuances that non speed guys like Fitzgerald developed. Especially if we are gonna continue to put subpar QBs in the starting lineup.

Overall, Hopkins is a stud with the POTENTIAL to be hall of fame. He just needs to continue working and he will be fine.

Brock on the other hand is one more hit away from being a lost cause.

[Arky]

I agree with everything your saying.

I believe what made DHOP such a standout was his catch radius. Not his speed or quicknesses. Hes never really been a speed guy.

No matter how off target or LATE Fitz or Mallet was, Hopkins was making acrobatic 1 handed disfigured catches. It wasn't that Fitz was so great...it was DHOP was SO GREAT and made Fitz look OK.

The difference in my opinion is that he is not making THOSE plays at the rate he was the last few years. The pass he tipped for the pick, just last year he made...I have the picture on my screen saver.

Can we expect him to do that ALL the time...NO. But when there's a drop off its noticeable...like this year...and yes a large part goes to Brock. But like you mentioned he's gonna have to develop more of those veteran nuances that non speed guys like Fitzgerald developed. Especially if we are gonna continue to put subpar QBs in the starting lineup.

Overall, Hopkins is a stud with the POTENTIAL to be hall of fame. He just needs to continue working and he will be fine.

Brock on the other hand is one more hit away from being a lost cause.

Yes, those are all good points.

I tell ya, if it wasn't for the horizontal passing game, Oz's stats would really suck. His completion % would be abominable.

Brady is like the master of the vertical passing game. Yards in big chunks. Texans really do need to find that guy that put the "vertical" back in the Texan passing attack..... Drop Brock and get Romo and the Texan offense would become a lot more interesting.........

[chuck]

DeAndre is a hands guy and not a speed guy. We all know that. Can he get better running routes? I guess so. But again, in my view it's foolish to spend any real time trying to uncover player deficiencies, especially when you're talking about the team's best offensive player, when your quarterback play is historically bad. I think you'll see DeAndre suddenly improve quite a bit when he plays with a decent quarterback in the unlikely event that that happens in Houston or wherever his next stop will be.

Osweiler is so bad it almost defies description. I know all of you have seen every Texans snap he's taken. But if you isolate some numbers his ineptitude is just shocking. For example, it is incredibly uncommon for a passer with 40+ attempts not to pass for at least 200 yards. Since 1950 a single player has accomplished that twice in a career something like three times. Osweiler did that FOUR times this year alone!

So anyone's complaining about Nuke, my own complaining about Chris Clark (really, you can't find a practice squad guy who's better than that?) is ultimately just a waste of time.

What I really want to know is why did Osweiler regress so much between what we saw last year and the absolute debacle this year. Or did he? Was he this bad last year and no one really noticed?

I've been saying for months that with average quarterback play the Texans could beat any AFC team other than the Patriots. Well, men, I was wrong about that. It turns out they could beat the Patriots, too.

[sinnister]

I don't think anyone thinks it is hops fault, but he has had separation issues this year, whereas last year year he seemed to get more separation. There is a part of me that is questioning if he is a true number 1, but there is no doubt he is our best weapon. I think the biggest thing I see is that the coaching on the offensive side and special teams aren't noticeable. I can tell how much the D coaches have had on player development, all across the board. The offense is terrible, and it doesnt appear that they are being coached up.

[barrett]

Does anyone really think NFL players don't make business decisions? Do we think we can start a QB who is awful but keeps playing because of his contract, and it doesn't affect how hard guys play for him? We screwed over Hopkins financially and then saddled him with a career draining albatross at QB. In a year he needed stats to get paid, we gave him Brock and a handcuffed offense. In response he has made business decisions (like sliding more than our QB).

In my initial post I put this more on the coaching staff. I put little on Hopkins. I think we were a fraud and I maintained that since BOB's 4th down punt 6 weeks back in a game we still had a shot at winning. Somehow drawing Oakland fooled many of us into forgetting how make believe this whole thing was. We are the worst team in the entire NFL at the most important position in the NFL. It ruins many facets of our offense, and many of the players it touches.

And Chucks a redneck NRA member.

[chuck]

When I was ten or so my grandfather bought his grandsons NRA memberships. It is entirely possible that they were lifetime memberships and if so, I am indeed an NRA member.

I grew up around guns. I am from Texas, after all. I got my first gun when I was in kindergarten. My dad was an avid hunter and at some point he found himself doing some sort of real estate business with Carter from Carter's Country. I want to say his name was Jim Carter. Anyway, my dad was forever bringing home guns of all description for my brother and me.

I don't think I've been hunting since I was in high school. But I found out not too long ago that I am still an excellent shot. A New York City living friend came to Houston and demanded to go out to a range and shoot. It must have been a Saturday and the place was packed with the sort of neck who wears camouflage to church. You know the ones. Anyway, I smoked everyone out there. My friend could not believe it.

I used to work with a guy who lived across the street from NRA headquarters. He was a bit of a gun nut and would often go to the range in the building's basement. How he managed to get a handgun permit in 1990's Washington, DC, is anyone's guess. One day he got questioned by the police. The range had been robbed. Yes, some enterprising individuals knocked off the NRA gun range. They questioned my friend because he had a queer habit of exchanging his paycheck for stacks of two dollar bills. He'd wander around town paying for everything in two dollar bills, usually in sequence. He became fairly notorious for it. So the authorities realized that they could get a pretty good idea of the serial numbers of the stolen twos. I wonder if they were ever caught.

[barrett]

When I was ten or so my grandfather bought his grandsons NRA memberships. It is entirely possible that they were lifetime memberships and if so, I am indeed an NRA member.

I grew up around guns. I am from Texas, after all. I got my first gun when I was in kindergarten. My dad was an avid hunter and at some point he found himself doing some sort of real estate business with Carter from Carter's Country. I want to say his name was Jim Carter. Anyway, my dad was forever bringing home guns of all description for my brother and me.

I don't think I've been hunting since I was in high school. But I found out not too long ago that I am still an excellent shot. A New York City living friend came to Houston and demanded to go out to a range and shoot. It must have been a Saturday and the place was packed with the sort of neck who wears camouflage to church. You know the ones. Anyway, I smoked everyone out there. My friend could not believe it.

I used to work with a guy who lived across the street from NRA headquarters. He was a bit of a gun nut and would often go to the range in the building's basement. How he managed to get a handgun permit in 1990's Washington, DC, is anyone's guess. One day he got questioned by the police. The range had been robbed. Yes, some enterprising individuals knocked off the NRA gun range. They questioned my friend because he had a queer habit of exchanging his paycheck for stacks of two dollar bills. He'd wander around town paying for everything in two dollar bills, usually in sequence. He became fairly notorious for it. So the authorities realized that they could get a pretty good idea of the serial numbers of the stolen twos. I wonder if they were ever caught.

I shot a gun once in my life, I am from Massachusetts after all. I come from a family of hippies who have aged into old hippies. I don't think there's a single thing about me that qualifies me as a redneck...well, except for my thoughts on Deandre Hopkins. Those make me a redneck and a racist.

[chuck]

I shot a gun once in my life, I am from Massachusetts after all. I come from a family of hippies who have aged into old hippies. I don't think there's a single thing about me that qualifies me as a redneck...well, except for my thoughts on Deandre Hopkins. Those make me a redneck and a racist.

Well, there are rednecks by nature (birth) (me) and by nurture (you).

BT apparently believes that being African American disqualifies one from being a redneck. Why, I am proud to tell him that he is mistaken. I was once driving around in Palm Beach, FL, and at a light I came upon a brand new pickup truck that, along with an impressive array of after-market lights and whatnot, was desecrated with every and all manner of NASCAR sticker. You know those hippy chicks who drive around with seven hundred stickers plastered all over their Subaru, some of them going back to the Al Gore campaign? Coexist, Visualize World Peace, Human Rights Campaign, Ani DiFranco? Well, it was like that, just NASCAR. I can't wait to have a gander at this neck, I thought. Imagine my surprise when I rolled up along side and saw an African American fellow sitting there. And it wasn't even that idiot from Hootie.

Bill Carter is the guy's name, by the way.

[HPF Bob]

Newsflash: The Texans' season is over and they lasted just as far as the Cowboys did! Yee haw! Guess I'll put down my banjo, put in my teeth and have a great big slice of possum pie!

[chuck]

Newsflash: The Texans' season is over and they lasted just as far as the Cowboys did! Yee haw! Guess I'll put down my banjo, put in my teeth and have a great big slice of possum pie!

Holler at the outhouse and tell momma that the vittles is ready.

I certainly hope you took the feet off of 'em. Wolfgang Puck takes the feet off of everything nowadays, you know.

[HPF Bob]

Nothing gets wasted. We pull off the toenails and wash em so that the children have toothpicks. Whatever can't be eaten/used, we take them out to the swamp to chum up the gators.

[Arky]

So glad (relieved?) Dallas is not coming here for the Super Bowl. (yes, you were wrong, John McClain).

------------------------------------------------------

In other news, Brock said in his press conference that no one is going to work harder in the off-season than he is to get better. So, it looks like we're going to be in good shape for next year! :thumbs up:

[chuck]

Nothing gets wasted. We pull off the toenails and wash em so that the children have toothpicks. Whatever can't be eaten/used, we take them out to the swamp to chum up the gators.

Say, Buford, that reminds me - how are you and your kin down your side of the holler planning to celebrate the holiday today? I reckon you'll break out some of pappy's corn squeezins and have one hell of a hoedown.

[nunusguy]

So glad (relieved?) Dallas is not coming here for the Super Bowl. (yes, you were wrong, John McClain).

Seeing where Jerry Jones is trying to rationalize the loss while denying there's no such thing as a morale victory when you know he's saying yesterdays game was a moral victory for his team.
Hey Jerry you are one and done, end of story. Get over it.
And you know how they always show you Jerry yucking it up with his pals in his suite at the stadium on TV after his team scores, but I so wanted to see him after the Packers made that winning FG. That's the Jerry Jones scene I want to see on the tube.

[Arky]

Seeing where Jerry Jones is trying to rationalize the loss while denying there's no such thing as a morale victory when you know he's saying yesterdays game was a moral victory for his team.
Hey Jerry you are one and done, end of story. Get over it.
And you know how they always show you Jerry yucking it up with his pals in his suite at the stadium on TV after his team scores, but I so wanted to see him after the Packers made that winning FG. That's the Jerry Jones scene I want to see on the tube.

Eheh. ;) Yeah, they won't show that.....

I do kinda like the replays where they show the reaction of the head coach/sideline of the winning team on a game winning FG and then show the reaction of the losing sideline....

Sometimes they kinda overdo it though, IMO. Like when a player does something bone-headed and the cameras will focus in own his face so close you can count the pores on his skin... Poor guy probably wants to crawl under a rock yet, he gets excess seconds of face time...

[Keith]

Classic thread is classic.

Ya know, all of the Texans' woes can be summed up in one word: quarterback. It's a damn shame you need one to be successful in the league now.

Actually, everyone knows this. Everyone but the Texans.

The long-term answer to the problem most likely comes from a high pick in the draft. O'Brien and Smith must ignore this no longer.

The Texans have drafted seven QBs in franchise history.

2002 - 1st round - David Carr
2003 - 3rd round - Dave Ragone
2003 - 6th round - Drew Henson
2004 - 7th round - B.J. Symons
2008 - 7th round - Alex Brink
2011 - 5th round - T.J. Yates
2014 - 4th round - Tom Savage

Here's another word to sum up this list: Yikes.

Want to win a Super Bowl? Finally invest an important draft pick in the most important position, and we can maybe then move on from calling each other rednecks every postseason.

[HPF Bob]

Drayton McLane signed two high-priced free agent pitchers (Doug Drabek and Greg Swindell) which led him to conclude high-priced free agent pitchers were to be avoided at all costs. Season after season of watching his starting pitching fail to win in the postseason finally convinced him to try again in 2004 with the signings of Andy Pettitte and Roger Clemens.

I suspect Bob McNair learned from the David Carr fiasco that you can't succeed with a first-round QB instead of learning that rookie QBs need offensive lines to be successful. For years we took DL's because "we have to get to Peyton Manning" now we draft WRs because "we have to open up the offense".

This is not a good year to reach for a QB in the draft. I don't even like the ones projected to go in the top of the draft with the possible exception of Deshaun Watson. IMO, we need offensive linemen and I would start with Utah OT Garrett Bolles if he checks out at the combine from where the draft experts put him. He's lean and raw and can start out at RT or LG while being developed to replace Duane Brown.

Hopefully, Nick Martin makes a full recovery and we will be able to plug him into the line. We can't develop a young QB without blockers and whether we're doomed to another year of Osweiler or not, we can be building the line that protects the next QB as Dallas has done.

[chuck]

I don't know what to make of any of these quarterbacks, either. I want to like Mahomes but I don't trust guys coming out of a system like that. And the mocks I've seen have the various quarterbacks all over the place. We'll get some clarity after the combine but as always if the team has someone they like I'd be happy to see them draft someone high.

OL is obviously an area of need although in theory if some guys return healthy that should help a lot. I'm always reluctant to draft OL in the first round because I feel like a good OL operates as a unit and what you need are guys that are smart and work well within a system rather than an all-world Joe Thomas type necessarily. The Patriots have a first round LT and then a motley assortment of thirds, fours, fives and an UDFA. And this reminds me of a point that I meant to make earlier - when we saw Pats receivers running wide ass open all over the field a lot of that was the fact that their quarterback often had thirty seconds to stand in a perfect pocket completely unmolested and wait for a corner to get tired of chasing one of their little sand fleas all over the field.

The Utah guy seems to be about the only OL that people are saying is worth a first. And he might be there when the Texans pick. So who knows.

But I'm officially on the cut Osweiler draft a QB high bandwagon. BO is obviously not going to be a Texan in 2018 so why dick around with him next year when you could be grooming someone who will be with the team in 2018 and beyond?

I would also be perfectly happy with a multi-year rental of a Rivers or a Brees but I consider that so unlikely as not to even merit discussion.

Oh, and if they do draft a quarterback high I certainly hope he's left handed.

[nunusguy]

IMO, we need offensive linemen and I would start with Utah OT Garrett Bolles if he checks out at the combine from where the draft experts put him. He's lean and raw and can start out at RT or LG while being developed to replace Duane Brown.


No doubt we need Olinmen and specifically OTs more than any other position except of course the all imporatajnt QB position.
I don't know much about this Bolles kid in terms of his abilities but I see he's another Mormon boy who starts with a couple strikes against him.
Because of his missionary sabbatical he would come in as an "old" rookie as he'd be 25 at the start of the 2017 season. Also according to info on him he played 2 years of JuCo ball before going to Utah which means he didn't play but one year of major league college ball. And he didn't play offensive tackle until college.
So this kid may be potentially a tremendous talent but sure sounds like a real project who we'd have to wait for to develop and we need help quicker than that right now from an offensive tackle.

[chuck]

No doubt we need Olinmen and specifically OTs more than any other position except of course the all imporatajnt QB position.
I don't know much about this Bolles kid in terms of his abilities but I see he's another Mormon boy who starts with a couple strikes against him.
Because of his missionary sabbatical he would come in as an "old" rookie as he'd be 25 at the start of the 2017 season. Also according to info on him he played 2 years of JuCo ball before going to Utah which means he didn't play but one year of major league college ball. And he didn't play offensive tackle until college.
So this kid may be potentially a tremendous talent but sure sounds like a real project who we'd have to wait for to develop and we need help quicker than that right now from an offensive tackle.

Good intel, nice work. Mormon = no thanks. We already have one Mormon OL and he sucks. Get those stiffs off the field and put them back to work looking for the lost Nephite city of Zarahemla.

QB it is, then. Righty-o.