Marciano - Fired!! [Archive] - IntheBullseye.com

barrett

12-06-2013, 02:40 PM

Sort of indicates to me Kubiak was the one keeping Marciano around, not McNair. I will not be surprised if Schaub is inactive the rest of the season. Kubiak's boys are OUT!

I am pretty sure Marciano predates Kubiak. There is no way Kubiak was protecting a guy he had no prior relationship with against McNair's wishes.

I think it's all dog and pony show for McNair to appease the fans. McNair can fire his boy Marciano now or in 3 weeks and it makes no difference. Either way he can sweetheart him financially on the way out. But do it now and you can scapegoat ST as a Kubiak problem.

Bob is trying to win back fans that have been put off by this little 11 game losing streak.

popanot

12-06-2013, 02:52 PM

Whatever the motive or timing, I sure feel a heck of a lot better now than I did 2 hours ago. Now I know I won't ever have to see Kubiak or Marciano on the sideline or listen to another crap Kubiak presser again. Too bad they couldn't fire the rest of them today too. Guess we'll just have to wait the 3 weeks for them.

chuck

12-06-2013, 03:35 PM

barrett

12-06-2013, 03:48 PM

barrett's analysis here and in the other fired thread is right on. I didn't think I could have any more contempt for McNair's cowardice but I was wrong. What should be a day of jubilance for me is now a day where I'm forced to recalibrate my hatred of the team's ownership.

Yep. It is so clear he is trying to wash the stink of this season off by attaching it all to Kubiak (even Marciano, who was a McNair guy from the start).

If losing 10 straight wasn't embarrassing, then there is no way last night was a back breaker. McNair just wanted to distance himself from Kubs so he can keep the fan base happy. Then he bashes Schaub and lauds Keenum (after one of Keenum's poorest games) as a bone for the localites. The way he is using Keenum to distract from how we've bungled this season from the TOP down, makes me almost root against a great young kid I really like.

barrett

12-06-2013, 03:49 PM

chuck

12-06-2013, 04:04 PM

barrett

12-06-2013, 04:16 PM

The hilarious thing is that Schaub, bless him, plainly outplayed Keenum last night and McNair is the only one who doesn't seem to know it.

My only hope is that they'll hire a head coach who demands that Rick Smith be fired. I can't really see this happening but I didn't see them firing Lickey mid-season or Marciano at all.

Schaub is who he is and he was that guy again last night. I never need to see him take another snap. But Kubiak is a lame duck and can only try to win the games since he has no next year with this team. He clearly believes Schaub gives them the best chance in any kind of 2 minute situation. Who knows if he's right (and who cares). All these idiots are gone next year.

But if you are McNair and you are truly playing for next year and you honestly thought Keenum was next year's answer and wanted him to play, then you fire Kubiak at the bye and give Wade the clear directive to play Keenum. You don't keep your lame duck coach and hope he cares about next year's team that he's not a part of.

But this wasn't about next year or anything else football related. This was McNair reading tea leaves and trying to cuddle up to dumb, angry, talk radio fan. "Fire Kubiak. Fire Marciano. Schaub stinks. Keenum is great."

If McNair had done this at the bye, I would believe it was about next year and evaluating/developing Case. Instead it's a clear play to win the media and fan base after an embarrassing season.

barrett

12-06-2013, 04:18 PM

Then McNair followed up with talk about how talented our roster still is and an instant turn around (so this year was all Kubiak's fault, Smith is a great GM, and fans should keep believing and paying).

And then he named Lovie Smith as an example of a guy to interview. Lovie might as well be the Defensive Gary Kubiak.

chuck

12-06-2013, 04:36 PM

McNair is clueless and this franchise is doomed.

barrett

12-06-2013, 05:26 PM

McNair is clueless and this franchise is doomed.

We just need him to be right once.

nunusguy

12-06-2013, 06:00 PM

barrett

12-06-2013, 06:49 PM

Not sure why Lovie is held in such low esteem by some, but at the least a sit down with him would meet the perfunctory Rooney Rule.
Now for a Bro with more "color", perhaps David Shaw would be a more appealing prospect ?

I consider Kubs a 8-8 guy. There are a few great coaches and a few terrible ones, and then 20+ guys who won't fix or break a team. Lovie and Kubs are those guys. They coach talent to its level and that's that.

Arky

12-06-2013, 07:09 PM

.................If McNair had done this at the bye, I would believe it was about next year and evaluating/developing Case. Instead it's a clear play to win the media and fan base after an embarrassing season.

Sounds like it's a no-win situation for McNair. If he waits till the end of the season to do the dismissal, fans are even more upset. By doing it now, it's an agenda/money driven decision? Letting Kubiak go at the bye (record was 2-5 at that point) would seem a bit premature for a coach coming off two straight playoff years, IMO....

I think fan outrage started with Schaub, then went to Kubiak and then went right on up the ladder. People need to realize McNair isn't going anywhere - everybody else doesn't have that luxury or job security.

All the peeps that have been calling for his (Kubiak's) head, some dating back to years ago, should be happy right about now....

WMH

12-06-2013, 07:19 PM

And then he named Lovie Smith as an example of a guy to interview. Lovie might as well be the Defensive Gary Kubiak.

He was asked a specific question about Lovie, and he answered that question. He's an obvious interview for several reasons, but he didn't do anything other than answer a question.

barrett

12-06-2013, 09:00 PM

Sounds like it's a no-win situation for McNair. If he waits till the end of the season to do the dismissal, fans are even more upset. By doing it now, it's an agenda/money driven decision? Letting Kubiak go at the bye (record was 2-5 at that point) would seem a bit premature for a coach coming off two straight playoff years, IMO....

I think fan outrage started with Schaub, then went to Kubiak and then went right on up the ladder. People need to realize McNair isn't going anywhere - everybody else doesn't have that luxury or job security.

All the peeps that have been calling for his (Kubiak's) head, some dating back to years ago, should be happy right about now....

Of course it's a no-win situation for McNair, his team is 2-11 and on an 11 game losing streak. It's always no win when you don't win.

I am not asking for McNair to go anywhere. He is the owner. End of story. I saw plenty of negative comments about McNair in this thread but nothing close to "let's get rid of him." Nobody in this thread needs to realize anything about McNair not going anywhere.

McNair fires Kubiak and says Keenum needs to play and improve? Do you truly believe he thinks Keenum will play next year? Or do you think he likes that Keenum takes a bit of heat off, while Schaub just makes people angrier?

barrett

12-06-2013, 09:01 PM

He was asked a specific question about Lovie, and he answered that question. He's an obvious interview for several reasons, but he didn't do anything other than answer a question.

What are the several reasons?

WMH

12-06-2013, 09:14 PM

What are the several reasons?

HC experience, NFL experience, couple of playoff trips, made it to the big game, etc. Regardless of what you or I may think, he's a qualified applicant. And I really hate to say this, but a minority candidate.

Not saying he'd be my choice, but can guess pretty confidently he'll be in the mix.

barrett

12-06-2013, 09:24 PM

HC experience, NFL experience, couple of playoff trips, made it to the big game, etc. Regardless of what you or I may think, he's a qualified applicant. And I really hate to say this, but a minority candidate.

Not saying he'd be my choice, but can guess pretty confidently he'll be in the mix.

I really don't mind him as an interview, but I like David Shaw much more as a candidate and as a rooney interview. I just can't get fired up about a defensive coach.

nunusguy

12-06-2013, 09:47 PM

I just can't get fired up about a defensive coach.

Parcells, Belichick ? You know, I was thinking those guys did OK in the NFL ? Didn't they both coach up in the northeast some where, around Beantown ?

Arky

12-06-2013, 10:31 PM

Of course it's a no-win situation for McNair, his team is 2-11 and on an 11 game losing streak. It's always no win when you don't win. I am not asking for McNair to go anywhere. He is the owner. End of story. I saw plenty of negative comments about McNair in this thread but nothing close to "let's get rid of him." Nobody in this thread needs to realize anything about McNair not going anywhere.?

So, you just pile on suggesting he's a fan-pleasing, money-grubbing weasel pandering to the fans?

I'm suggesting being mad at McNair does doesn't do anybody any good. Smith/Kubiak/the players all can be replaced, obviously. The owner, that doesn't change - you're (anybody) wasting your time. If grousing about him or bad mouthing him makes you feel better go ahead and continue... I think he's a good man and wants a winner - he's way better than most owners. Not cheap, not a butthead, not an a-hole..... I see him as a kindly grandfather type whose only weakness is he spoils the grandkids (GM/coaches/players) too much. Some people call that "clueless".

McNair fires Kubiak and says Keenum needs to play and improve? Do you truly believe he thinks Keenum will play next year? Or do you think he likes that Keenum takes a bit of heat off, while Schaub just makes people angrier?

I think McNair is like most of us and has had his fill of Matt Schaub. Keenum might not be the future but he's the most, er.....interesting... on the roster right now. If McNair says "losing to Jacksonville" twice was his motivation for the firing, I kinda believe that. I'm just not buying the kiss-and-makeup-with-the-fans line as the reason for the firing.....

barrett

12-06-2013, 11:04 PM

So, you just pile on suggesting he's a fan-pleasing, money-grubbing weasel pandering to the fans?

I'm suggesting being mad at McNair does doesn't do anybody any good. Smith/Kubiak/the players all can be replaced, obviously. The owner, that doesn't change - you're (anybody) wasting your time. If grousing about him or bad mouthing him makes you feel better go ahead and continue... I think he's a good man and wants a winner - he's way better than most owners. Not cheap, not a butthead, not an a-hole..... I see him as a kindly grandfather type whose only weakness is he spoils the grandkids (GM/coaches/players) too much. Some people call that "clueless".

I think McNair is like most of us and has had his fill of Matt Schaub. Keenum might not be the future but he's the most, er.....interesting... on the roster right now. If McNair says "losing to Jacksonville" twice was his motivation for the firing, I kinda believe that. I'm just not buying the kiss-and-makeup-with-the-fans line as the reason for the firing.....

I'm wasting everyone's time by whining about McNair? Wow. Just wow.

Aren't you the guy who just told me this week that you were responding on this site to "Case Bashers" FROM OTHER SITES, and you would do it as much as you wanted to. And now I am wasting your time by complaining about the owner who presided over this 2-11 mess?

I don't care if McNair is your actual grandfather or just a kindly old grandfather type. I don't care if he is a good man and wants a winner. I don't care if he's sick of Matt Schaub. I care if he hires good people, and he hasn't. He protected Marciano in the last changeover. He hired Kubiak.

He didn't fire an NFL head coach with a sub .500 career record and a 10 game losing streak, and then he did fire the same HC saying it was partly about not playing a QB who has never won an NFL game. Either he likes feeding a hometown hero to the fans because they are dumb enough to be distracted by him being "interesting" (present company included), or he really was just sick of Schaub and he has no business forming opinions on who should play QB for this team. It is no win for him.

Arky

12-07-2013, 04:57 AM

I'm wasting everyone's time by whining about McNair? Wow. Just wow.

Well, yeah. Because, ya know, you don't have any control of the situation except to come on a public forum and throw out some crackpot speculation... Portraying McNair as some conniving fleece-meister is just disingenuous as all get out......

Aren't you the guy who just told me this week that you were responding on this site to "Case Bashers" FROM OTHER SITES, and you would do it as much as you wanted to. And now I am wasting your time by complaining about the owner who presided over this 2-11 mess?

Exactly. McNair bashers and Case bashers are usually the same breed - from the same tribe.... Many times, one and the same. Over the top. People pretending like they know what goes on behind the scenes... They're in every forum. If you think the franchise stinks from top to bottom, why don't you find something other to do with your time? At present, I only see frustration and anger in your future.... If the Texans won a SuperBowl next year, people would be bitching about it taking too damn long....

I don't care if McNair is your actual grandfather or just a kindly old grandfather type. I don't care if he is a good man and wants a winner. I don't care if he's sick of Matt Schaub. I care if he hires good people, and he hasn't. He protected Marciano in the last changeover. He hired Kubiak.

High crimes, I tell ya....

He didn't fire an NFL head coach with a sub .500 career record and a 10 game losing streak, and then he did fire the same HC saying it was partly about not playing a QB who has never won an NFL game. Either he likes feeding a hometown hero to the fans because they are dumb enough to be distracted by him being "interesting" (present company included), or he really was just sick of Schaub and he has no business forming opinions on who should play QB for this team. It is no win for him.

The bolded is just speculation, opinion, just a tad venomous and I could not disagree more. We as fans are entitled to nothing. The owner and team owe us nothing. We support the team of our own free will. If they suck, they suck - can't do a damn thing about it except not patronize them. Some people get on a forum and whine about how them mean ol' Texans done did them wrong. I understand that. I can handle it to a certain point until people start making s**t up.

HPF Bob

12-07-2013, 08:22 AM

barrett

12-07-2013, 08:39 AM

Eh, we're all fans - it's what we do. We bitch, complain, knee-jerk and whine. And it's a good thing we aren't in charge.... ;)

So it's ok as long as it doesn't have anything to do with McNair because owners are off limits?

Kubes still talking up his boy Matt Schaub post game last night.....:rolleyes:

Keenum fans won't have to worry about Kubiak half-assing his development anymore. Kubiak did a few things with/to Keenum he would never do with Matt Schaub..... McNair sounded like a bit of a Keenum fan himself during the presser....

So you can bash Kubiak and Schaub and make up theories with no facts, like Kubiak is sabotaging Keenum, but I offer an opinion on McNair and it's unfair?

You are totally inconsistent in your arguments. Are we free will fans who need to shut up and take it or walk? Is it wrong to speculate and make things up or not?

The only consistent thing about you the last few weeks is that Keenum can do no wrong and anyone who falls short of worshipping the guy gets argued with.

barrett

12-07-2013, 08:41 AM

The only point to housecleaning now is that it sends a message to the players and fans that what is happening is unacceptable. I think the decision was weeks ago but Thursday night's 14-penalty fiasco was too much to save face.

Schaub gives the Texans a slightly better chance to win now but Keenum needs as much OJT as possible. I think by putting in Schaub, Kubiak may have forced McNair's hand.

Marciano's firing is a bit more satisfying to me. We get way too many ST penalties and that's on the coaches. Letting Jacoby Jones and Trindon Holliday go is just icing on the cake.

I agree Bob, it's a message sent. I agree that the decision was made weeks ago, and I agree that putting Schaub back in was the final straw. You cannot expect the lame duck coach who has no future here to care about the future and that is why you get him out if it is play for the future time.

Nconroe

12-07-2013, 10:47 AM

I agree Bob, it's a message sent. I agree that the decision was made weeks ago, and I agree that putting Schaub back in was the final straw. You cannot expect the lame duck coach who has no future here to care about the future and that is why you get him out if it is play for the future time.

I'd agree with this opinion on the reason and timing of the dismissals.

Even Kubes said a couple weeks back we need to start playing the younger guys more.

Of course desire to win is also there.

There are always pros and cons on opinions and decisions. Plenty theories on what went wrong this year.

Now, I seem to remember most here wanted to get rid of Jacoby and Trindon at the time. Of course other ST coavhes seemed to get more consistency, not sure if it was experience and maturity or coaching.

barrett

12-07-2013, 11:32 AM

I'd agree with this opinion on the reason and timing of the dismissals.

Even Kubes said a couple weeks back we need to start playing the younger guys more.

Of course desire to win is also there.

There are always pros and cons on opinions and decisions. Plenty theories on what went wrong this year.

Now, I seem to remember most here wanted to get rid of Jacoby and Trindon at the time. Of course other ST coavhes seemed to get more consistency, not sure if it was experience and maturity or coaching.

Jacoby went for the playoff fumble. He needed a fresh start and new fans.

I still wouldn't touch Holliday. They pull him everytime there is a big moment because they are afraid he won't catch it. How can you have a return specialist who gets pulled because he can't catch kicks? I am fine with Martin on Punts (it's kickoffs he's terrible at).

Arky

12-07-2013, 01:45 PM

So it's ok as long as it doesn't have anything to do with McNair because owners are off limits?

No, owners are open to criticism. Just don't make stuff up.

So you can bash Kubiak and Schaub and make up theories with no facts, like Kubiak is sabotaging Keenum, but I offer an opinion on McNair and it's unfair?

I'd say Kubiak pulling Keenum twice can't be doing the young man's confidence any good. There's your fact. Out there on this internet thingy, there's quite a few people that have suspicions that Kubiak is/was hampering and half-assing Keenum's development.

You are totally inconsistent in your arguments. Are we free will fans who need to shut up and take it or walk? Is it wrong to speculate and make things up or not?

There are no rules. Speculate and opine all you want. Make things up and expect to be responded to.

The only consistent thing about you the last few weeks is that Keenum can do no wrong and anyone who falls short of worshipping the guy gets argued with.

Ah, but you don't point out when I've admitted Keenum has stunk it up. He looked pretty good against New England. Not so hot Thursday against Jax. I'd say he's done a decent job in about half his starts. The rest not so much. Not unexpected from a guy who was playing DB on the practice squad several weeks ago.

Ya know, responding to everything with an accusatory attitude don't make you right. I can handle a lot of bent, twisted ideas and innuendo when there is a kernel of truth involved. Something ringing totally false, not so much.

I think this is the part where we agree to disagree. Don't know about you, but I've got a lot better things to do...

Arky

12-07-2013, 01:53 PM

Jacoby went for the playoff fumble. He needed a fresh start and new fans.

I still wouldn't touch Holliday. They pull him everytime there is a big moment because they are afraid he won't catch it. How can you have a return specialist who gets pulled because he can't catch kicks? I am fine with Martin on Punts (it's kickoffs he's terrible at).

According to McClain, Jacoby asked to be traded because the fans were so upset with him.

But yeah, both needed to go.

barrett

12-07-2013, 01:58 PM

Out there on this internet thingy, there's quite a few people that have suspicions that Kubiak is/was hampering and half-assing Keenum's development.

If it's on the internet then it must be true.

But seriously, you say you are basing it on facts and not making things up like me. That facts show Kubiak is not helping Keenum and is working against him.

Facts would say Kubiak signing Keenum last year, praising him for 2 straight years, letting him compete for the backup job, jumping him ahead of Yates to start, giving him 6 consecutive starts even though he's never won a game, and grooming him from UDFA to starting QB show that Kubaik has greatly helped Keenum's development. Kubiak may be a below average HC (by definition, more wins than losses), but he has gotten better QB play compared to QB talent than most do. You said Keenum stunk it up in the Jags game, and yet when Kubiak pulled him for stinking it up, you think it is some kind of plot to ruin his development? And then you quote the existence of anonymous internet message board posts (from another message board), as proof you are right?

And then with a straight face you say I can complain but I'll be called on it when I make stuff up? Will you stop calling me on it if I said there are others on the internet (Chuck) that think it's true? By your backwards logic doesn't that mean it's a fact based theory and not one I made up?

barrett

12-07-2013, 02:02 PM

I can handle a lot of bent, twisted ideas and innuendo when there is a kernel of truth involved. Something ringing totally false, not so much.

You seriously don't think there is even a kernel of truth to the fact that McNair prefers Keenum on the field because fans like it?

barrett

12-07-2013, 02:10 PM

Parcells, Belichick ? You know, I was thinking those guys did OK in the NFL ? Didn't they both coach up in the northeast some where, around Beantown ?

Those are great ones. If we could get one of those, I would be fired up.

But they say Bellachik sits in every QB meeting today and coaches them as much as any other position. Recent years have had mostly offensive coaches winning superbowls.

Maybe I just hope it's an offensive guy because that is the side of the ball that appears to most need fixing after watching the last 11 weeks. That and the knowledge the new coach will almost certainly have a rookie QB to groom.

Arky

12-07-2013, 02:42 PM

If it's on the internet then it must be true.

But seriously, you say you are basing it on facts and not making things up like me. That facts show Kubiak is not helping Keenum and is working against him.

Facts would say Kubiak signing Keenum last year, praising him for 2 straight years, letting him compete for the backup job, jumping him ahead of Yates to start, giving him 6 consecutive starts even though he's never won a game, and grooming him from UDFA to starting QB show that Kubaik has greatly helped Keenum's development. Kubiak may be a below average HC (by definition, more wins than losses), but he has gotten better QB play compared to QB talent than most do. You said Keenum stunk it up in the Jags game, and yet when Kubiak pulled him for stinking it up, you think it is some kind of plot to ruin his development? And then you quote the existence of anonymous internet message board posts (from another message board), as proof you are right?

And then with a straight face you say I can complain but I'll be called on it when I make stuff up? Will you stop calling me on it if I said there are others on the internet (Chuck) that think it's true? By your backwards logic doesn't that mean it's a fact based theory and not one I made up?

Too many questions. Waste. Of. Time.

But, hey, you got Chuck in your corner. lol

Arky

12-07-2013, 02:45 PM

You seriously don't think there is even a kernel of truth to the fact that McNair prefers Keenum on the field because fans like it?

Seriously (I was wondering when this word would enter the conversation).

I think McNair likes Keenum himself and was disappointed when Matt "no future here" Schaub entered the game....

Nconroe

12-07-2013, 02:59 PM

I'm getting a bowl of chili now, hot and spicy. I will check back in a few hours to see how this entertaining discussion is going.

I vote to keep McNair whatever theory one might have. I believe winning SB is his main motivation. Sure satisfied fans and making a profit are part of any business.

barrett

12-07-2013, 03:14 PM

Too many questions. Waste. Of. Time.

But, hey, you got Chuck in your corner. lol

I'm sorry I had to go ahead and bring logic into it.

Go Texans and let's make a great hire. I'm for Gruden.

chuck

12-07-2013, 03:45 PM

I'm being given as a reference in an internet argument. Awesome.

barrett

12-07-2013, 04:32 PM

I'm being given as a reference in an internet argument. Awesome.

I almost said...

"I've got my own crazy, internet, conspiracist"...

but I figured you were on my side after all.

chuck

12-07-2013, 05:14 PM

I almost said...

"I've got my own crazy, internet, conspiracist"...

but I figured you were on my side after all.

No, absolutely, I'm with you on this, partly because it's patently obvious and partly because it dovetails nicely with some of my pet conspiracy theories. Also, you and I make an entertainingly unlikely support group.

barrett

12-07-2013, 05:42 PM

No, absolutely, I'm with you on this, partly because it's patently obvious and partly because it dovetails nicely with some of my pet conspiracy theories. Also, you and I make an entertainingly unlikely support group.

A regular odd couple. We are at odds about %75 of the time, and loudly most of the time.

Most of the time because I am wildly optimistic and forgiving of every one in this franchise. I still don't hate Schaub or Kubiak (though I hope to never see either in a Texans uniform again). I am still ok with Rick Smith staying. I will still gladly pay money to watch McNair's team. I think he is a pretty good owner precisely because he stays out of football decisions. But this time he fired a coach because he didn't like who that coach played at QB (everyone on the board including Arky thinks pulling Keenum was the final straw). If it was just about losses he could have waited 3 weeks and done the "classy thing". Even Capers survived 2-14 and he wasn't coming off back to back Division titles. It is clear that who played the end of the Jax game was behind the timing.

Now I don't think McNair all of a sudden went Jerry Jones on us, and thinks he knows best in terms of football. I think he knows the end of this miserable season goes down a little easier for fans with #7 than with #8.

Arky

12-07-2013, 05:53 PM

I'm sorry I had to go ahead and bring logic into it.

No, the discussion began because I was questioning your logic - your portrayal of conniving old McNair as pandering to the fans. I disagreed and presented my side.

Then, you get all strawman, bring in some of my past viewpoints, ask 28 questions to analyze my logic and generally suggesting I don't have my s**t straight.

It's kinda like when I was a younger fella: I had some buds who went through a "everyone's a hypocrite" stage. They could spin things to make anybody out as a hypocrite - even a preacher. I kinda get that feeling with you and "logic" in our back and forth. And that's why I'm reluctant to continue - not to mention the huge time suck..... Thank god, they eventually moved on. Besides, I just got Batman: Arkham Origins and I need to go kick the Penguin's butt...

barrett

12-07-2013, 06:28 PM

No, the discussion began because I was questioning your logic - your portrayal of conniving old McNair as pandering to the fans. I disagreed and presented my side.

Then, you get all strawman, bring in some of my past viewpoints, ask 28 questions to analyze my logic and generally suggesting I don't have my s**t straight.

It's kinda like when I was a younger fella: I had some buds who went through a "everyone's a hypocrite" stage. They could spin things to make anybody out as a hypocrite - even a preacher. I kinda get that feeling with you and "logic" in our back and forth. And that's why I'm reluctant to continue - not to mention the huge time suck..... Thank god, they eventually moved on. Besides, I just got Batman: Arkham Origins and I need to go kick the Penguin's butt...

I mentioned logic because I wanted consistency out of you. I was asking that you hold yourself to the same standard you want to hold me. If I can't make things up, you can't make things up. If being agreed with by some internet poster makes your opinion a supported fact, being agreed with by some internet crackpot conspiracy theorist (chuck again) makes my argument supported fact. You want it both ways.

If expecting you to be consistent makes me like buds you used to have who spun preachers as hypocrites I am truly at a loss.

Good luck with Batman and I am glad you have video games to help you escape the time suck of arguing with me.

HPF Bob

12-07-2013, 08:46 PM

Facts would say Kubiak signing Keenum last year, praising him for 2 straight years, letting him compete for the backup job, jumping him ahead of Yates to start, giving him 6 consecutive starts even though he's never won a game, and grooming him from UDFA to starting QB show that Kubaik has greatly helped Keenum's development.

I certainly agree with this part. No doubt Kubiak helped to develop and groom Keenum but that doesn't mean Kubiak, who wants to win and wants to show his players he wants to win, agrees with the decision to play him over Schaub so when the game is close late and Keenum has not looked all that sharp, he brings in Schaub to try to win the game.

I really don't fault Kubiak for doing that but if it defies orders from Smith or McNair, I can see why that might have been the final straw to getting fired now instead of next month.

To me, it's the 14 penalties that said "time to go". The players know he's a lame duck and aren't listening to him. They're going through the motions instead of auditioning for whomever the new coach turns out to be.

Arky

12-07-2013, 11:34 PM

I mentioned logic because I wanted consistency out of you. I was asking that you hold yourself to the same standard you want to hold me. If I can't make things up, you can't make things up. If being agreed with by some internet poster makes your opinion a supported fact, being agreed with by some internet crackpot conspiracy theorist (chuck again) makes my argument supported fact. You want it both ways.

If expecting you to be consistent makes me like buds you used to have who spun preachers as hypocrites I am truly at a loss.

Good luck with Batman and I am glad you have video games to help you escape the time suck of arguing with me.

Just keep it simple, barrett. Discussing or debating on the internet doesn't have to be complex. Just lay out your side and rest your case. Someone doesn't have to be right or wrong. One side doesn't have to have "faulty logic". It can be different logic or different rational thinking. If I made issue with everything I disagree with on internet forums, I'd never leave the keyboard. You seem like a smart guy so, by all means, share your opinions and don't feel "attacked" if someone disagrees with you.

No need to apologize (sincerely or facetiously). I just didn't feel like addressing your 28 questions (hyperbole alert) one at time...

Peace.

HPF Bob

12-08-2013, 11:37 AM

Fellas. It's a small group here. No need to spit in anyone's eye here.

The folks who hated Kubiak and Marciano got what they wanted this week and it only cost them one terrible season. Schaub may soon follow.

Now, we can set about bitching over what Wade Phillips does or the next HC or the next QB that gets brought in because, as fans, that's what we do best. :D

popanot

12-09-2013, 08:01 AM

Do you truly believe he thinks Keenum will play next year? Or do you think he likes that Keenum takes a bit of heat off, while Schaub just makes people angrier?I believe he thinks the Schaub ship sailed weeks ago and should have never come into port again. I believe he thinks Keenum is the only QB on his payroll that even has a remote chance of being here next year (whether you think so or not), and thus, should be playing and gaining experience regardless of the game situation or even if he's playing as poorly as Schaub has over the last 2 years. I believe he was totally disgusted with how the Jags game went down and said, screw it, lets just do this now. I believe he finally saw the light and decided he would like to get a head start on his HC interviews and it's now easier to do that with Kubiak out of the building.

Seriously, they have one home game left against the top team in the AFC with a HOF QB and an Offense on a historical pace. Do you really think he made the move or made the comments he did because he thinks he needs Keenum to fill the seats or appease the fan-base? I'm sure even McNair understands the stadium will be mostly filled because 1)season ticket holders won't want to waste the investment they made and will either go to the last home game or sell/give the tickets away, 2) local fans who couldn't afford to have the NFL stadium experience will now be able to get cheap tickets, 3)there will be a lot of Broncos fans filling those seats, or 4)all of the above.

I think it's pretty safe to assume McNair doesn't actually believe the fans (or advertisers) will flock to the stadium one last time to see Keenum play or Wade plodding down the sideline or our improved ST play now that Marciano is gone. Question the timing all you want, but saying he did it now just to appease the fans has very little merit at this point in the season. Frustration, yes. Fan appeasement, no.

barrett

12-09-2013, 09:53 AM

I believe he thinks the Schaub ship sailed weeks ago and should have never come into port again. I believe he thinks Keenum is the only QB on his payroll that even has a remote chance of being here next year (whether you think so or not), and thus, should be playing and gaining experience regardless of the game situation or even if he's playing as poorly as Schaub has over the last 2 years. I believe he was totally disgusted with how the Jags game went down and said, screw it, lets just do this now. I believe he finally saw the light and decided he would like to get a head start on his HC interviews and it's now easier to do that with Kubiak out of the building.

Seriously, they have one home game left against the top team in the AFC with a HOF QB and an Offense on a historical pace. Do you really think he made the move or made the comments he did because he thinks he needs Keenum to fill the seats or appease the fan-base? I'm sure even McNair understands the stadium will be mostly filled because 1)season ticket holders won't want to waste the investment they made and will either go to the last home game or sell/give the tickets away, 2) local fans who couldn't afford to have the NFL stadium experience will now be able to get cheap tickets, 3)there will be a lot of Broncos fans filling those seats, or 4)all of the above.

I think it's pretty safe to assume McNair doesn't actually believe the fans (or advertisers) will flock to the stadium one last time to see Keenum play or Wade plodding down the sideline or our improved ST play now that Marciano is gone. Question the timing all you want, but saying he did it now just to appease the fans has very little merit at this point in the season. Frustration, yes. Fan appeasement, no.

I don't think it has anything to do with ticket sales or finances. Like I said in the post you quoted, the last 3 games just go down a little easier with Case at QB. I know they do for me. I think that is most of why McNair wants Case in there, as a bridge from bridge 2-11 to the eternal optimism of the offseason. Matt Schaub on the other hand gets burned in efigy in the parking lot and accosted at his home. Those are not the headlines McNair wants.

At least I hope that is why he made the change. Because if he really did it because he thinks Case needs to play, that is far worse. An owner has no business deciding what players start. I understand wanting this season to end in the least frustrating way for fans possible, but I don't get an owner picking the starting lineup.

popanot

12-09-2013, 11:33 AM

I don't think it has anything to do with ticket sales or finances. Like I said in the post you quoted, the last 3 games just go down a little easier with Case at QB. I know they do for me. I think that is most of why McNair wants Case in there, as a bridge from bridge 2-11 to the eternal optimism of the offseason. Matt Schaub on the other hand gets burned in efigy in the parking lot and accosted at his home. Those are not the headlines McNair wants.

At least I hope that is why he made the change. Because if he really did it because he thinks Case needs to play, that is far worse. An owner has no business deciding what players start. I understand wanting this season to end in the least frustrating way for fans possible, but I don't get an owner picking the starting lineup.I doubt headlines has anything to do with McNair's actions or comments. The season is a disaster and nothing Keenum does or firing a coach or two will change that perception. We know it's a disaster, the media knows it, and McNair knows it. McNair, and the franchise's, primary goal is and should be finding out which players will be here next year and having the data that best sets them up for the draft and for future success. This is especially true at a position as important as the starting and/or backup QB. Kubiak totally shat in the face of that initiative with his actions in JAX.

I think it's fairly safe to say the Texans management has decided Schaub is gone and that they've seen all they want to see of Yates. Who else does that leave? McNair was asked the question and answered it by saying he wanted Keenum on the field to assess and hopefully progress his development. To take those words or his actions in firing Kubiak/Marciano and drawing the conclusion it's to appease the fans or that he's scheming or meddlesome is stretching it quite a bit, IMO.

I've posted here many times my disgust at some of the moves (or lack thereof) this franchise makes so I'm not looking at this through rose-colored glasses. I just don't see your point of view on this. I see a man who is pissed, embarrassed, and decide he'd had enough. Maybe it all should have happened weeks or years ago, but it didn't. I agree with some here in that McNair comes across as an honorable man - maybe to a fault - and that he wanted to ride it out and let Kubiak finish out season with the players he helped groom. However, Kubiak forced his hand.

Anyway, next year is a new year and I doubt seeing Keenum play in 3 games or that McNair's recent actions will change the hearts of the media or fans or make them think this season has been any less of a disaster. I doubt McNair thinks that either. I think next year's media/fan outlook will have more to do with who they hire as the next HC and their offseason moves than it will for what happens on the field the remaining games.

barrett

12-09-2013, 12:11 PM

McNair, and the franchise's, primary goal is and should be finding out which players will be here next year and having the data that best sets them up for the draft and for future success. This is especially true at a position as important as the starting and/or backup QB. Kubiak totally shat in the face of that initiative with his actions in JAX.

I think it's fairly safe to say the Texans management have decided Schaub is gone and that they've seen all they want to see of Yates. Who else does that leave? McNair was asked the question and answered it saying he wanted Keenum on the field to assess and hopefully progress his development. To take those words or his actions in firing Kubiak/Marciano and drawing the conclusion it's to appease the fans or that he's scheming or meddlesome is stretching it quite a bit, IMO.

This was your original quote:

Next year is a new year and I doubt seeing Keenum play in 3 games will make the season ticket holders rush back and renew. I doubt McNair thinks that either. I think it'll have more to do with who they hire as the next HC than what happens on the field or who plays the last 3 games.

I agree completely, and I told you, I don't think it has anything to do with finances. Owning an NFL franchise is like a right to print money. That really can't be messed up. McNair could be terrible and not spend if he was financially motivated. I don't believe he is financially motivated at all. He spends freely on personnel and coaches and everything else. It is probably his best trait as an owner that he is not cheap.

His next best trait is he doesn't meddle. That is why this situation stood out. I don't believe there is anything Keenum could do in the next 3 weeks that would change how we treat QB this offseason. If he goes 3-0 with 4 TDs every week I think we still draft or don't draft the same as if he goes 0-3. If Case plays great the next 3 weeks do you think we don't draft a QB because of it?

I don't think we are evaluating him. I think we are ending this season as painlessly as possible (and it is not a bad thing). McNair cares deeply about having a franchise worthy of respect. It is reflected in the high character guys we acquire. I don't think he likes when his team is in national headlines for fans showing up at his terrible QB's house (I don't blame him). I think he knows Schaub playing just angers the mob and does not help us one bit long term. Keenum playing calms the mob but still doesn't help us long term. I would pick the same one as him (Keenum). Kubiak apparently didn't care enough about that to keep his job 3 more weeks.

popanot

12-09-2013, 12:56 PM

I agree completely, and I told you, I don't think it has anything to do with finances.Sorry, barrett. I must have been editing my response while you posted this response (and thus, my quote you included is different than my actual comments above).

barrett

12-09-2013, 01:39 PM

Sorry, barrett. I must have been editing my response while you posted this response (and thus, my quote you included is different than my actual comments above).

No problem.

The truth is I like McNair. There is a few weeks old thread where I defended him (http://www.inthebullseye.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1696&page=4&highlight=mcnair ). He spends and stays out of it. Those are 2 of the 3 best qualities an owner can have. The 3rd and most importnat is hiring good people, and you really only need to get that right once.

That is why the timing of everything this week bothers me a bit. He doesn't appear to be staying out of it. Our ST have been terrible for the whole existence of our franchise and McNair kept Marciano. He even kept him when he fired everyone else. He carried his foundation. And now with fan uproar at its highest he fires the guy with 3 weeks left in the season? When we could give up 10 ST TDs and it wouldn't matter? And not after one of our many ST debacles?

All of a sudden McNair is meddling in who should play and who should be a position coach? I just don't buy it's because he had football opinions that couldn't wait 3 weeks. Not when he has never imposed a football opinion in-season during our whole franchise history. I think he is getting a head start on washing the stink of 2013 and starting the optimism of an offseason with a new coach and the #1 pick.

And I don't have a problem with it. I just won't rejoice over a 3 week difference in timing that equates to a PR move (even a much needed one). I will wait to see who we hire and see if he can finally get the most important part of being an owner right (hiring good people). For all of you proclaiming him a good owner you do realize he is the one who hired all of the guys you have hated (Capers, Casserly, Kubiak, Marciano, etc...). His best hire ever is Rick Smith (an average GM to this point with some big hits and big misses). But like I said, he really only needs to get one hire right. Bob Kraft is Bob McNair who stumbled onto Bellachik.

Nconroe

12-09-2013, 03:07 PM

And maybe Bellicheck stumbled over Tom Brady. They win a lot, make playoffs a lot, hadn't won superbowl since 2007, but that would be welcome here.

barrett

12-18-2013, 02:30 PM

barrett

01-03-2014, 06:34 PM

Today McNair said that he fired Kubiak early to get a head start on the hire. It appears to have worked as we landed our first choice (and a choice desired by other teams) before the first playoff game. There is nothing to say whether it is the right choice yet, but at least we aren't stuck with plan B. I was very critical of the timing of Kubiak's firing (thought it was either too late or too early), and also of the motivations (didn't like our owner firing a guy and connecting it to his personal desire for which QB played). All that is in the pastone way or another, but I am glad McNair fired Kubiak when he did and got a head start on the hiring process. Hopefully he can now bow into the background and sign the checks for whatever O'Brien and Smith want to do.