Andre contemplating his future- please stay

[Nconroe]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...texans-future/

""And in the days since, it doesn’t sound like Johnson is thrilled with the direction of the franchise, saying he wondered “is this still the place for me?”

“This offseason has been very frustrating for me,” Johnson said, via the Houston Chronicle.

Johnson, speaking at a charity event, said he hadn’t asked for a trade, but won’t be reporting to voluntary OTAs or minicamp.""

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Nconroe

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...texans-future/

""And in the days since, it doesn’t sound like Johnson is thrilled with the direction of the franchise, saying he wondered “is this still the place for me?”

“This offseason has been very frustrating for me,” Johnson said, via the Houston Chronicle.

Johnson, speaking at a charity event, said he hadn’t asked for a trade, but won’t be reporting to voluntary OTAs or minicamp.""

I don't blame him at all. We have not shown any real intention to win this year, and the truth is it will probably be 2016 at the earliest before we are serious contenders (and that is assuming we get a QB in 2015). I have no idea why Andre or Foster are here with that being the case. I would have thought they'd be off the books already.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by barrett

I don't blame him at all. We have not shown any real intention to win this year, and the truth is it will probably be 2016 at the earliest before we are serious contenders (and that is assuming we get a QB in 2015). I have no idea why Andre or Foster are here with that being the case. I would have thought they'd be off the books already.

I imagine that they couldn't get anything of any real value for them in a trade and if the defense is as good as it could potentially be they think that they might luck into a 9-7, 10-6 even and sneak into the playoffs. Hell, they could win the division at 10-6.

This is not my thinking of course, but you'll recall that McNair thinks they are a playoff team.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by chuck

I imagine that they couldn't get anything of any real value for them in a trade and if the defense is as good as it could potentially be they think that they might luck into a 9-7, 10-6 even and sneak into the playoffs. Hell, they could win the division at 10-6.

This is not my thinking of course, but you'll recall that McNair thinks they are a playoff team.

I guess O'Brien has to half play along with McNair's playoff dreams even as he willfully goes into a season with no QB. I would rather we lose and solve the QB position early in next year's draft than go 10-6 because our division and conference are terrible.

Either way I wish AJ and Foster were off the books before 2015, a season we could conceivably contend in. Even if it meant no compensation. And I say that even though they are two of my favorite players and very likable humans (not always the same).

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by barrett

I guess O'Brien has to half play along with McNair's playoff dreams even as he willfully goes into a season with no QB. I would rather we lose and solve the QB position early in next year's draft than go 10-6 because our division and conference are terrible.

Either way I wish AJ and Foster were off the books before 2015, a season we could conceivably contend in. Even if it meant no compensation. And I say that even though they are two of my favorite players and very likable humans (not always the same).

But realistically what are the Texans (and Andre's) options if he were willing to be traded ? Obviously nobody would be interested in him with his giant contract,
and there's no way around it is there even if AJ were to agree to a massive restructuring ? Of course he could retire, but I suspect he's not frustrated enough with the plight of the Texans to forgo all of that money.

[WMH]

I'll preface this rant by saying that AJ always has been, and probably always will be one of my favorite players to watch. Dude can ball.

HOWEVER.....

The Texans don't owe him $hit. He's been very well compensated during his time here, and has been treated very well. We sucked last year, and will probably not be great this year. But he's got a job to do, and he's paid well to do it. Drives me nuts when pro athletes talk about "wanting to win", "looking for a ring", then as soon as they are able to hit FA, they grab the cash and run. AJ never hit FA because the Texans ponied up and gave him a more than generous deal that is neither team nor cap friendly. If he truly wanted to be a "team" guy, he would have taken a pay cut to help us get out of cap hell the last 2 years and maybe they could have been more active in FA. Doubt he'll bring that up to the media.

He's untradeable, with a $12MM cap acceleration that we can't absorb.

He plays for us, he sits unpaid, or he retires. Period, exclamation mark.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by WMH

I'll preface this rant by saying that AJ always has been, and probably always will be one of my favorite players to watch. Dude can ball.

HOWEVER.....

The Texans don't owe him $hit. He's been very well compensated during his time here, and has been treated very well. We sucked last year, and will probably not be great this year. But he's got a job to do, and he's paid well to do it. Drives me nuts when pro athletes talk about "wanting to win", "looking for a ring", then as soon as they are able to hit FA, they grab the cash and run. AJ never hit FA because the Texans ponied up and gave him a more than generous deal that is neither team nor cap friendly. If he truly wanted to be a "team" guy, he would have taken a pay cut to help us get out of cap hell the last 2 years and maybe they could have been more active in FA. Doubt he'll bring that up to the media.

He's untradeable, with a $12MM cap acceleration that we can't absorb.

He plays for us, he sits unpaid, or he retires. Period, exclamation mark.

This. I have always felt this way and have taken flak for it. I like AJ and I hope he returns but I have a hard time being sympathetic to any unhappy pro-athlete that makes more in a handful of games than I will make in my lifetime.

On the radio, he (AJ) said he will make his decision soon. The radio guys are saying there is no decision - he needs to get to camp. So, I'm thinking his decision comes down to either a) he comes back or b) he retires....

[HPF Bob]

I'd love to see him on a team with a legit chance to win a Super Bowl. I just hope it isn't something like a Steeler or a Raven or a Patriot and we get pennies on the dollar.

[bono]

what happens to his cap number if he somehow decided to retire?

[barrett]

His choice is how much money he's willing to give back. If he's willing to sign a totally new deal with his new team, than we can get something for him. If his agent goes shopping and says "Dre will take 2 years and less than $10 milion," then somebody will give up a pick for him. If not then he can try to make us cut him, but we have no incentive and I am not sure he is capable of playing the bad guy.

As for the idea that anyone who makes lots of money for sports is beyond sympathy, that is a viewpoint that some of you have, and I am cool with that. I know plenty of unhappy rich people, and plenty of well paid people who hate their job/employer. I feel bad for them on the same level I'd feel bad for a poor person or a poorly paid person in the same situation. I feel bad that AJ has gone to work and been excellent for the last decade and his bosses have made that mostly irrelevant. How much he does or doesn't make has nothing to do with it in my mind, but I get those who think it does.

[Nconroe]

Andre's contract year by year is explained here - most likely -
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-t...andre-johnson/

In 2010 Andre Johnson signed a 7 year / $67.80 million contract with the Houston Texans, including a $2,817,500 signing bonus, $20,500,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $9,685,714.

The contract and restructure to help Texans cap space is as this most likely-
Sep 3 2013 - Restructured 2013 salary/roster bonus from $10.5 million to $5 million with Houston (HOU)
Mar 13 2012 - Restructured 2012 salary from $6.5 million to $700k with Houston (HOU)
Aug 5 2010 - Signed a 7 year $67.8 million extension with Houston (HOU)
Mar 3 2007 - Signed a 6 year $70 million extension with Houston (HOU)
Jul 22 2003 - Signed a 6 year $39 million contract with Houston (

[chuck]

Originally Posted by barrett

I feel bad that AJ has gone to work and been excellent for the last decade and his bosses have made that mostly irrelevant. How much he does or doesn't make has nothing to do with it in my mind, but I get those who think it does.

I agree with this totally. He is the only great player the franchise has had (if JJ stays healthy for a decade hell surely be the second) and as I have lamented time and time again the organization has effectively squandered his career.

I will add that Andre has largely kept his mouth shut. I would not begrudge his being much more vocal about his displeasure but it strikes me as typical that he was fairly reserved and understated and that the occasion was a charity event he freaking organized.

Oddly enough I ran into him in the airport in Miami about three weeks ago and was able to give him a distilled version of all of this. Unsurprisingly he was not terrifically loquacious.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by chuck

He is the only great player the franchise has had (if JJ stays healthy for a decade hell surely be the second) and as I have lamented time and time again the organization has effectively squandered his career.

It's a business. He's a paid professional athlete. He's among the elite at his position and is paid accordingly. Everyone familiar with the NFL knows who he is and respects his accomplishments. Irrelevant he is not. In another forum, someone said he's Barry Sanders - Houston version. I agree.

What we got here is a disgruntled employee. And he's not disgruntled with his pay (or he shouldn't be). As of right now, he's got two choices: 1) Suck it up, honor his contract and come back to work and (hopefully) play with the same passion or 2) retire.

A third option is possible but would take negotiating. He could ask out of contract to seek employment elsewhere. The Texans don't have to sit down at the negotiation table if they don't want to.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by Arky

It's a business. He's a paid professional athlete. He's among the elite at his position and is paid accordingly. Everyone familiar with the NFL knows who he is and respects his accomplishments. Irrelevant he is not. In another forum, someone said he's Barry Sanders - Houston version. I agree.

What we got here is a disgruntled employee. And he's not disgruntled with his pay (or he shouldn't be). As of right now, he's got two choices: 1) Suck it up, honor his contract and come back to work and (hopefully) play with the same passion or 2) retire.

A third option is possible but would take negotiating. He could ask out of contract to seek employment elsewhere. The Texans don't have to sit down at the negotiation table if they don't want to.

Much of what you write is inarguable. The difference of opinion that you and I have is that I am not bothered by his speaking out and you are. From the many things you have said on the subject over the years I side with barrett in thinking that the source of your annoyance is the amount of money he is paid.

This reminds me of the legions of fans who took the owners' side in the lockout, a horde of class-envious wage slaves falling for empty sophistry to side with a bunch of billionaires who'd as soon as piss on you as anything else.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Arky

It's a business. He's a paid professional athlete. He's among the elite at his position and is paid accordingly. Everyone familiar with the NFL knows who he is and respects his accomplishments. Irrelevant he is not. In another forum, someone said he's Barry Sanders - Houston version. I agree.

What we got here is a disgruntled employee. And he's not disgruntled with his pay (or he shouldn't be). As of right now, he's got two choices: 1) Suck it up, honor his contract and come back to work and (hopefully) play with the same passion or 2) retire.

A third option is possible but would take negotiating. He could ask out of contract to seek employment elsewhere. The Texans don't have to sit down at the negotiation table if they don't want to.

I have no problem with you or anyone else having no sympathy for him. But it is a joke if you think he is compelled to honor a contract that the Texans are not compelled to honor. Does anyone on this forum honestly think AJ is going to play out that contract? There is a 100% chance that he is cut/traded before it expires.

No NFL player needs to honor their contract because no team needs to honor it. Every team and every player is in a continuous state of "go get yours." If Andre decided that at his age getting his is more about playing with an NFL level QB and having a chance to win, than I hope he gets it. And if the Texans decide it is in their best interest to let him go or trade him (now or a year from now), good for them. Those are the current rules of the game.

But why should he honor a contract the Texans will surely not honor.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by chuck

Much of what you write is inarguable. The difference of opinion that you and I have is that I am not bothered by his speaking out and you are. From the many things you have said on the subject over the years I side with barrett in thinking that the source of your annoyance is the amount of money he is paid..

I'm a Texan fan. Players come and go. No one player is bigger than the team. That's what annoys me. He really picked a bad time to rock the boat. The team is in transition and need his services. Draft strategy might have been different......

This reminds me of the legions of fans who took the owners' side in the lockout, a horde of class-envious wage slaves falling for empty sophistry to side with a bunch of billionaires who'd as soon as piss on you as anything else.

I think you're saying it's a divorce and I'm pro-husband and you are pro-wife, OK, whatever... we're both right.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by Arky

I think you're saying it's a divorce and I'm pro-husband and you are pro-wife, OK, whatever... we're both right.

Unless the wife works for the husband or vice-versa this is an analogy that is difficult to translate.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by barrett

I have no problem with you or anyone else having no sympathy for him. But it is a joke if you think he is compelled to honor a contract that the Texans are not compelled to honor. Does anyone on this forum honestly think AJ is going to play out that contract? There is a 100% chance that he is cut/traded before it expires.

No NFL player needs to honor their contract because no team needs to honor it. Every team and every player is in a continuous state of "go get yours." If Andre decided that at his age getting his is more about playing with an NFL level QB and having a chance to win, than I hope he gets it. And if the Texans decide it is in their best interest to let him go or trade him (now or a year from now), good for them. Those are the current rules of the game.

But why should he honor a contract the Texans will surely not honor.

Huh?

"Show up for work and get paid. Don't show up for work and don't get paid."

That's a basic concept you'll find in a contract.

If he just wants to not go through all the OTA's and minicamps like a lot of older players do, I'm betting the Texans would accomodate that.

He's under contract for what, 3 more years? Contractually, he's property of the Texans unless they work something out, i.e. negotiate.

Jake Plummer took retirement over being traded to Tampa Bay.... That was his right.

Maybe he wants to retire and could give a rat's behind who the QB is.... I think a tenured player makes it known if he is going to retire or gives them a "this is my last year and let's adjust the contract". Likewise, a player of AJ's stature would (or should) receive plenty of notice if the team no longer wants his services. Maybe he's heard some whispers......I dunno. JMO, but I think the Texans think he's still got it and want him to stay....

[Arky]

Originally Posted by chuck

Unless the wife works for the husband or vice-versa this is an analogy that is difficult to translate.

I dunno chuck, I was finding it difficult to relate to being a "class-envious wage slave falling for empty sophistry " so I reached a little...

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Arky

Huh?

"Show up for work and get paid. Don't show up for work and don't get paid."

That's a basic concept you'll find in a contract.

If he just wants to not go through all the OTA's and minicamps like a lot of older players do, I'm betting the Texans would accomodate that.

He's under contract for what, 3 more years? Contractually, he's property of the Texans unless they work something out, i.e. negotiate.

Jake Plummer took retirement over being traded to Tampa Bay.... That was his right.

Maybe he wants to retire and could give a rat's behind who the QB is.... I think a tenured player makes it known if he is going to retire or gives them a "this is my last year and let's adjust the contract". Likewise, a player of AJ's stature would (or should) receive plenty of notice if the team no longer wants his services. Maybe he's heard some whispers......I dunno. JMO, but I think the Texans think he's still got it and want him to stay....

Another thing that is usually a basic concept of a contract is that you get paid as long as you keep showing up. That is not the case in the NFL. For whatever reason the NFL has developed a contract system where teams have the right to fire at any moment, for any reason, with no penalty. Meanwhile, players are able to use holdouts, media comments, agent negotiated trades, skipping of optional activities, giving less than perfect effort, etc..., to get what they want.

Usually getting what they want involves money. For Andre it appears to involve being thrown to by an NFL QB.

Like I asked earlier. Do you really believe the Texans plan to honor Andre's contract if he stays?

And he has far more options than show up or retire. In fact we are seeing one of them play out right now. He made one small, mostly harmless comment and turned the whole fan base upside down. You can bet O'Brien and McNair noticed, and you can bet 31 other front offices are silently watching.

I guess the property got sick of the manner in which he was being owned. Too bad for you and the Texans he can do more than just "honor the contract" or retire.