Official Texans @ Patriots Playoff Game Thread, 1/14/2017

[barrett]

Originally Posted by chuck

I wasn't even responding to you, you goon. I was talking to Big Tex.

Of course if your ego requires it go ahead and assume that everything I say involves you.

Now you're a liar and a mad man. Unless you often refer to Big Tex in the plural.

[chuck]

And, of course, placing this debacle on Nuke is lunacy. If you want to take that stance then I'll dismiss your opinions out of hand like I do those of Buford T. Hulsey.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by barrett

Now you're a liar and a mad man. Unless you often refer to Big Tex in the plural.

Do I think there's more than one dumbass around here? Why, yes, I do.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by chuck

Do I think there's more than one dumbass around here? Why, yes, I do.

Which is it Chuck? Were you talking to Big Tex or the board at large? If you are going to insult someone stand by it.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by barrett

Which is it Chuck? Were you talking to Big Tex or the board at large? If you are going to insult someone stand by it.

Do you really want me to go out of my way to insult you for thinking that Nuke is the central problem of this team's offense? Really?

Come on, man.

Anyone who thinks that Nuke is a primary issue here is a moron.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by chuck

Do you really want me to go out of my way to insult you for thinking that Nuke is the central problem of this team's offense? Really?

Come on, man.

Anyone who thinks that Nuke is a primary issue here is a moron.

Nice strawman Chuck. Nobody wrote anything to even hint he is the primary problem.

[HPF Bob]

Overall, it wasn't a bad year. I would take this season over the dumpster fire we had against the Chiefs. We met a giant roadblock called the New England Patriots but, guess what?, the rest of the AFC has the same problem.

Despite keeping it close for three quarters, it was interesting to me that every last one of our problems took their turns defeating us. Let me count the ways:

1. Special teams meltdown: That's six easy points the Patriots did not need.
2. Kareem Jackson. He can't cover a pregnant grandmother. The White Bread Patriots spent all day catching balls in his territory. Fine tackler for a corner. Can't cover for shit.
3. Bernardrick McKinney. Brady sent backs and TEs on passing routes against him anytime they could. He simply doesn't have the speed to keep up with them. We need a different guy in obvious passing downs on the field in his place.
4. Will Fuller V fought the ball and the - ball won. The over-the-shoulder drop in the third quarter was critical. You could hear them nailing the coffin when V let that pass through his hands. Deep threats with shitty hands don't rate well in my book, particularly first-rounders.
5. Unimaginative play-calling. *snore*

6. And Brock Osweiler as the Beaver. ESPN had a fascinating stat last week. Over 75% of Brock's picks happened trying to throw to DeAndre Hopkins. Who was Ossie throwing to in his two picks tonight? It's #10. Surprise!! Of course, when he does throw on target, Fido or Fuller V drop it. Then he also tossed some Tebows which is why the fans are on his case.

Amazingly, the offensive line had a fantastic night keeping Ozzie upright and not picking up holding calls (with a few exceptions). I think they just exposed the Patriots for the rest of the postseason. If NE can't get to Ozzie, there's no way they will pressure Rothlenstein. If Pissburgh can get by KC, they actually have a chance in the AFCCG to upset the Patsy Boys.

[HPF Bob]

Don't worry about Chuckles and his drunken tirade. He's out celebrating those brainy New Englanders by going to Somalia for pizza and cheese.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by barrett

Nice strawman Chuck. Nobody wrote anything to even hint he is the primary problem.

At this point I have no idea what you think the primary problem is. You and BT went off on Nuke, though, like he were somehow culpable for the team's inability to find a quarterback. You have said many times that he's quit on the Texans. I reject that narrative completely. It is no different than the racist nonsense that stupid freaks always try to push. AJ, Arian, all have had to endure this sort of bullshit.

That's a bad throw, but Hopkins quit 3 months ago. His lack of effort has been disgusting. He aligator armed that one (and countless others). When he does catch it, he does everything he can to get down on the ground before getting tackled. I think he's slid more than our QBs this year. He runs consistently lazy routes.

That's you, dude. I don't see any lack of effort; I see a lack of a quarterback to throw him the mfuking ball.

In three years we'll see who is still in the league. You tell me - who? Hop or BO? I'll take Hop.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

Don't worry about Chuckles and his drunken tirade. He's out celebrating those brainy New Englanders by going to Somalia for pizza and cheese.

Sweet! I'll see you in Mogadishu. I know you despise regulation. And I can see why. You know, the feds might very well try to mandate the circumference and exterior pressure of your headset. Hell with that shit, right?

Although, really, let's face it - for a small government fanatic like you Haiti is really the closest option. Meet you there, mon frere.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by chuck

At this point I have no idea what you think the primary problem is. You and BT went off on Nuke, though, like he were somehow culpable for the team's inability to find a quarterback. You have said many times that he's quit on the Texans. I reject that narrative completely. It is no different than the racist nonsense that stupid freaks always try to push. AJ, Arian, all have had to endure this sort of bullshit.

That's a bad throw, but Hopkins quit 3 months ago. His lack of effort has been disgusting. He aligator armed that one (and countless others). When he does catch it, he does everything he can to get down on the ground before getting tackled. I think he's slid more than our QBs this year. He runs consistently lazy routes.

That's you, dude. I don't see any lack of effort; I see a lack of a quarterback to throw him the mfuking ball.

In three years we'll see who is still in the league. You tell me - who? Hop or BO? I'll take Hop.

There you go again with the strawman arguments. You can't ask me who will be in the league because that has nothing to do with it. You're just setting up arguments nobody ever made and attacking them like it gives you a point. It doesn't. I've been against Brock from day 1 (unlike you). I've not said a single positive word about him in this thread. But you act like its a zero sum game where any negative word about anyone else is somehow an endorsement of McNair/Smith/Osweiller. You are either dumb (I don't believe it), drunk (???), or you are being dishonest and you know what you're doing.

You also have some obsession with coloring every sports argument with non-sports issues. Somehow Bob McNair's football issues are related to political party, Bill O'Brien's issues with Rick Smith are about culture and regionalism, and my issues with Hopkins are about race. You can do your best to project these issues on me, but they simply aren't there.

[chuck]

Do you have a point? If so, please state it and perhaps we can go from there.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

Overall, it wasn't a bad year. I would take this season over the dumpster fire we had against the Chiefs. We met a giant roadblock called the New England Patriots but, guess what?, the rest of the AFC has the same problem.

Despite keeping it close for three quarters, it was interesting to me that every last one of our problems took their turns defeating us. Let me count the ways:

1. Special teams meltdown: That's six easy points the Patriots did not need.
2. Kareem Jackson. He can't cover a pregnant grandmother. The White Bread Patriots spent all day catching balls in his territory. Fine tackler for a corner. Can't cover for shit.
3. Bernardrick McKinney. Brady sent backs and TEs on passing routes against him anytime they could. He simply doesn't have the speed to keep up with them. We need a different guy in obvious passing downs on the field in his place.
4. Will Fuller V fought the ball and the - ball won. The over-the-shoulder drop in the third quarter was critical. You could hear them nailing the coffin when V let that pass through his hands. Deep threats with shitty hands don't rate well in my book, particularly first-rounders.
5. Unimaginative play-calling. *snore*

6. And Brock Osweiler as the Beaver. ESPN had a fascinating stat last week. Over 75% of Brock's picks happened trying to throw to DeAndre Hopkins. Who was Ossie throwing to in his two picks tonight? It's #10. Surprise!! Of course, when he does throw on target, Fido or Fuller V drop it. Then he also tossed some Tebows which is why the fans are on his case.

Amazingly, the offensive line had a fantastic night keeping Ozzie upright and not picking up holding calls (with a few exceptions). I think they just exposed the Patriots for the rest of the postseason. If NE can't get to Ozzie, there's no way they will pressure Rothlenstein. If Pissburgh can get by KC, they actually have a chance in the AFCCG to upset the Patsy Boys.

Ya, I'm on board with most all of this. Kareem Jackson's new specialty is the 35 yard PI call. Kevin Johnson is sorely missed.

Texans were penalized 5/75. Pats were 5/50. I don't think anyone can point to the refs as a factor in this one.... Maybe a missed call here or there but overall, nothing criminal.....

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the entire/overall dysfunction of the offense.... When Oz is on target, they drop it. He's not on target much which makes the drops more difficult to stomach. Not-on-target leads to deflected balls, incompletions, INTs..... It would help if he didn't throw like a 2nd baseman...

Liked the reference to Texas-own Bobby Fuller 4 and their 60's hit, I fought the law... Eheh... :thumbs up:

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

Overall, it wasn't a bad year. I would take this season over the dumpster fire we had against the Chiefs. We met a giant roadblock called the New England Patriots but, guess what?, the rest of the AFC has the same problem.

OK so that's petty much my sentiments this morning, and I'm not saying last night was some kind of moral victory but it sure isn't the shellacking we took at the end of last year at the hands of the Chiefs in the W-C PO game. 30-0 right ? That was brutal, that was devastating.
Now we some kind of defense and thanks to them we played tough, we played competitive ball with the Pats thru 3 quarters, but even they need more help than they got last night from the offense to go all the way with a team the caliber of the Patriots.
Is the QB position as big a question and as uncertain this morning as it was this time last year ? Yea I guess it is, but dammit if some receivers like Fuller and Fido could just catch a few more balls that drop right in their hands so it's not all Brocks fault.
And whether in the Draft or free agency we've got to get somebody to play right tackle but I think at LT Duane Brown might have another year or two remaining in the tank. In the interior of the OLine (guard/center) we are fairly close to having 3 legit starters so long as rookie Nick Martin can come back healthy for 2017.

[Big Texas]

Originally Posted by Big Texas

By no means is this ALL DHops fault...As a matter of fact a LARGE majority of the blame goes to Brock...However I don't give a shit WHO you are no one is exempt from taking the blame for their part in the loss...including DHOP.

AJ green, Julio Jones, and Antonio Brown are ELITE receivers and despite consistent double teams they put up numbers weekly. So if you wanna claim "all world" put up numbers to back it up...

I guess I have to quote myself in order for Chuck to understand. Nowhere does it say this game is all DHop's fault...

I am merely pointing out that a large number of the passes that Brock throws to DHop are covered. Very little or no separation at all...stop giving him a pass just because he's the best we have on offense.

He's got to get better point blank if we wanna win. The Patriots had ****************in Hogan and Edelman creating 2-3 yards of separation on us...is it unreasonable to ask Hopkins to aspire to do the same? Especially if he knows the QB SUCKS...and yes he sucks...

That's what Andre had to do his whole career, step his game up because the QB here has always been terrible.

For whatever reason the last few years DHop has put on a show. However, this year he has been above average at best.

He is not exempt from getting better.

Maybe they need more offseason work together...I don't know...but what I do know is teams can't keep pressing us off the line with a 2 deep shell and taking our passing game completely out of the game. Somebody's gotta win those match ups and it starts with DHop...POINT BLANK.

[Big Texas]

With that said...

My assessment of the year is:

The Good

1. The D has without a doubt established itself as elite. (Without JJ)

2. Despite his struggles in the passing game Mckinney is becoming a star. (Billicheck just did what he always does, find your weakness and exploits it).

3. AJ Bouye has surpassed every expectation. Getting league wide recognition.

4. DJ Reader looks like he will be the real deal for the future.

5. Clowney and Merciless are nothing nice...elite level pass rushers and just as good run stoppers.

The Bad

1. The OLINE needs a complete overhaul. (Dear God please let Nick Martin pan out).

2. Separation on the part of the receivers.

3. Playcalling...I just knew the addition of Ervin and Hunt would mean more swing routes and screens...just all around creativity in the passing game...Not so much

4. Fullers hands...enough said

The Ugly

1. Brock...
-slow delivery
-terribly inaccurate
-decision making under pressure is abysmal
-can't make the protection calls


Overall this defense has single handedly got us to the second round of the playoffs. And for 3 quarters hung in there with the Patriots.

Some of the offenses struggles can be fixed with better Playcalling and more familiarity with the system and each other. However, if Brock has started to get that David Carr look in his eyes, all hope is lost for him.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by Big Texas

I guess I have to quote myself in order for Chuck to understand. Nowhere does it say this game is all DHop's fault...

I am merely pointing out that a large number of the passes that Brock throws to DHop are covered. Very little or no separation at all...stop giving him a pass just because he's the best we have on offense.

He's got to get better point blank if we wanna win. The Patriots had ****************in Hogan and Edelman creating 2-3 yards of separation on us...is it unreasonable to ask Hopkins to aspire to do the same? Especially if he knows the QB SUCKS...and yes he sucks...

That's what Andre had to do his whole career, step his game up because the QB here has always been terrible.

For whatever reason the last few years DHop has put on a show. However, this year he has been above average at best.

He is not exempt from getting better.

Maybe they need more offseason work together...I don't know...but what I do know is teams can't keep pressing us off the line with a 2 deep shell and taking our passing game completely out of the game. Somebody's gotta win those match ups and it starts with DHop...POINT BLANK.

This is so bizarre it's hard to know where to begin. We're talking about the NFL. It's not like Fun Football where the best player on the field can, by sheer force of will, run completely unmolested all over the field. With most routes a receiver is open only momentarily as he comes out of his break or finds a soft spot in the zone or whatever it is. Hence the term NFL open. I know you know this which is why I find it so annoying to be arguing this with you.

Do you ever wonder why Hopkins is better with literally every other Texans quarterback than he is with Brock? More catches, better numbers, etc.? Is it because he simply decides to get open when playing with Savage or Hoyer or Fitzpatrick or whoever? Or is it because Brock Osweiler sucks dick and never fking delivers the ball on time?

The Patriots' receivers weren't usually wide ass open (unless possibly KJ was the guy covering them), it just seems like it because they have the best player in the league as their quarterback and that guy knows when to get the ball to a receiver.

Another thing, if a guy like Belichick decides to take away a certain offensive option there's not much you can do except adapt and rely on other options. John Harris was saying that he listened to the sideline audio from the Pats game earlier in the year and that all game Belichick was yelling TEN!, TEN! Meaning the Texans' number ten is the guy the Pats defense needs to be concerning themselves with. So, two takeaways. One is that one man's mailing it in is another man's getting double and triple teamed. Two is that the best head coach in the history of the mking sport recognizes Deandre Hopkins as the Texans' best (only?) weapon while a bunch of redneck keyboard jockeys sit around bitching about his supposed lack of effort.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by chuck

This is so bizarre it's hard to know where to begin. We're talking about the NFL. It's not like Fun Football where the best player on the field can, by sheer force of will, run completely unmolested all over the field. With most routes a receiver is open only momentarily as he comes out of his break or finds a soft spot in the zone or whatever it is. Hence the term NFL open. I know you know this which is why I find it so annoying to be arguing this with you.

Do you ever wonder why Hopkins is better with literally every other Texans quarterback than he is with Brock? More catches, better numbers, etc.? Is it because he simply decides to get open when playing with Savage or Hoyer or Fitzpatrick or whoever? Or is it because Brock Osweiler sucks dick and never fking delivers the ball on time?

The Patriots' receivers weren't usually wide ass open (unless possibly KJ was the guy covering them), it just seems like it because they have the best player in the league as their quarterback and that guy knows when to get the ball to a receiver.

Another thing, if a guy like Belichick decides to take away a certain offensive option there's not much you can do except adapt and rely on other options. John Harris was saying that he listened to the sideline audio from the Pats game earlier in the year and that all game Belichick was yelling TEN!, TEN! Meaning the Texans' number ten is the guy the Pats defense needs to be concerning themselves with. So, two takeaways. One is that one man's mailing it in is another man's getting double and triple teamed. Two is that the best head coach in the history of the mking sport recognizes Deandre Hopkins as the Texans' best (only?) weapon while a bunch of redneck keyboard jockeys sit around bitching about his supposed lack of effort.

Sober Chuck actually made a point here, but in the end he couldn't resist going off the rails. You have again attached not being a big enough fan of Hopkins (or a big enough critic of Osweiller) with being a redneck. Please tell me how one connects to the other.

[Big Texas]

Originally Posted by chuck

This is so bizarre it's hard to know where to begin. We're talking about the NFL. It's not like Fun Football where the best player on the field can, by sheer force of will, run completely unmolested all over the field. With most routes a receiver is open only momentarily as he comes out of his break or finds a soft spot in the zone or whatever it is. Hence the term NFL open. I know you know this which is why I find it so annoying to be arguing this with you.

Do you ever wonder why Hopkins is better with literally every other Texans quarterback than he is with Brock? More catches, better numbers, etc.? Is it because he simply decides to get open when playing with Savage or Hoyer or Fitzpatrick or whoever? Or is it because Brock Osweiler sucks dick and never fking delivers the ball on time?

The Patriots' receivers weren't usually wide ass open (unless possibly KJ was the guy covering them), it just seems like it because they have the best player in the league as their quarterback and that guy knows when to get the ball to a receiver.

Another thing, if a guy like Belichick decides to take away a certain offensive option there's not much you can do except adapt and rely on other options. John Harris was saying that he listened to the sideline audio from the Pats game earlier in the year and that all game Belichick was yelling TEN!, TEN! Meaning the Texans' number ten is the guy the Pats defense needs to be concerning themselves with. So, two takeaways. One is that one man's mailing it in is another man's getting double and triple teamed. Two is that the best head coach in the history of the mking sport recognizes Deandre Hopkins as the Texans' best (only?) weapon while a bunch of redneck keyboard jockeys sit around bitching about his supposed lack of effort.

2 questions:

1. Is DHop free from all criticism in your eyes?

2. Can DHOP get better?

It seems as though your thought process is that DHOP is untouchable and deserves no accountability.

Again, before you say it...no I am not putting the blame ALL on Dhop. As a matter of fact the only reason we are engaged in this conversation is because you were offended by the mere thought of DHop getting critisized a little.

The truth is as we all agree...BROCK SUCKS

But DHOP has dropped some passes and allowed a rookie corner to all but play him to a stale mate this year.

Truth is...He has some room to grow...whether it is mentally or physically...I could care less...

And by the way...players can essentially DOMINATE a game in the NFL...Just look at what Julio did this year...yes its possible

[Big Texas]

And yes I did wonder why he wasn't getting open this year. I actually thought maybe he was hurt and not telling anyone. Go back and look at some of the routes he's run and you will see where the defender is step for step with him, which leads to a pass that has to be pin point perfect to complete. And we AAALLLL know Brock's not completing that...

NFL open...Interesting you bring that up because the passes completed on KJ, Mckinney, Moore, and Hal last night were not NFL open they were just OPEN...(for the most part they did well but they were definitely smoked on a number of occasions.

And again I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibilities to expect that from our top dawg on offense.

And BTW I wasn't going to acknowledge this but I'm far from a redneck... (I'm black)...and two I do coach football at the HS level and played at the HS... (which by no means makes me ANY type of expert) but in no way shape form or fashion am I a "keyboard junkie"...

So we can agree to disagree like adults without referring to name calling and stereotyping. Because you don't know anything about me.