What Should Be Done with Dunta Robinson in the Offseason? [F-Tagged on 2/19!]

[Keith]

If Dunta is indeed tagged, it will happen in February. I don't have the exact date on me, but it will definitely be before UFA signing begins.

fyi - I'm guessing the transition tag is roughly $8.0 million... problem is a match might mean a poison pill, which would be a big problem. Plus, transition tags come with no compensation. Both reasons are why you don't see the transition tag used all that much.

and... welcome dalemurphy. Braves fan?

[RunninRaven]

Is a transition tag the same as a franchise tag?

[Keith]

They're different. F-tags are offered the top 5 average salaries, T-tags are top 10. F-tags give the old/current team a right to match, and if they choose not to, they then receive two first round picks from the new team. T-tags give the old/current team the right to match an offer but no trade compensation if they choose not to.

Scout.com seems to think they know the tag #s for 2009, though I haven't confirmed yet how official this is. Fwiw though:

Franchise/Transition Tag Levels

Quarterback
Franchise $14.651m
Transition $12.440m

Running Back
Franchise $6.621m
Transition $5.925m

Wide Receiver
Franchise $9.884m
Transition $8.393m

Tight End
Franchise $4.462m
Transition $4.065m

Offensive Linemen
Franchise $8.451m
Transition $7.744m

Kicker/Punter
Franchise $2.483m
Transition $2.264m

Defensive Tackle
Franchise $6.058m
Transition $5.45m

Defensive End
Franchise $8.991m
Transition $7.777m

Linebacker
Franchise $8.304m
Transition $7.480m

Safety
Franchise $6.342m
Transition $5.130m

Cornerback
Franchise $9.957m
Transition $8.374m

http://det.scout.com/a.z?s=93&p=2&c=834345

[popanot]

They should at least it make so that the T-Tag is compensated with one #1. Some teams would probably be willing to spend or receive a #1 for some players. I could certainly see that being the case with someone like DRob.

[cadams]

Originally Posted by NBT

Dunta WAS good, yes! But last year he was coming off a bad injury. He only got to play in the last part of the season and he still wasn't full speed yet. So it is still problematical if he is or WILL, get back to his old self. So saying, I want the Texans to continue to negotiate in good faith until we find out what his fair market price is going to be. If, say by June, he is not signed, is time enough to think about the dreaded tag.

I dont think you can wait until June to decide to tag a player. I am pretty certain they have to decide in the next few weeks.

[cadams]

Originally Posted by popanot

They should at least it make so that the T-Tag is compensated with one #1. Some teams would probably be willing to spend or receive a #1 for some players. I could certainly see that being the case with someone like DRob.

I think that is effectively how the f-tag works. I don't recall anyone having to actually give up two, first rouders on a guy, I am sure it has happened, I just can't recall. More often once the f-tag is used if another team is interested they work out a trade with the current team for something below the two 1st rounders

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by Keith

If Dunta is indeed tagged, it will happen in February. I don't have the exact date on me, but it will definitely be before UFA signing begins.

fyi - I'm guessing the transition tag is roughly $8.0 million... problem is a match might mean a poison pill, which would be a big problem. Plus, transition tags come with no compensation. Both reasons are why you don't see the transition tag used all that much.

and... welcome dalemurphy. Braves fan?

Big Braves fan but I've lost interested in baseball the past 5-8 years. I used to post a fair amount on Houstonprofootball.com and recognize you from there.

I'm assuming that poison pills are kind of a non-issue with the collective bargaining agreement ending and the uncapped year in 2010. But, that's just a guess. I just think the transition tag is a way to negotiate with Dunta if he's demanding huge dollars without destroying the team's relationship with him, franchise him, and end up in the same position next year- only with a higher franchise level.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

I used to post a fair amount on Houstonprofootball.com and recognize you from there.

Glad you're here. Thanks for (re-)joining.

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

I'm assuming that poison pills are kind of a non-issue with the collective bargaining agreement ending and the uncapped year in 2010.

A team could structure an offer though to make the entire signing bonus into a roster bonus executable 3/15/09. If a team with oodles of cap room like the Eagles really wanted Dunta, then a transition tag could screw the Texans in an effort to shave just $2 million off the tag. So the poison pills are still an issue at least one more season.

No team would ever give up two #1s for Dunta, but if the Texans f-tagged him, they might be in a better position to negotiate a trade for more reasonable compensation if so desired, a position that would be basically non-existent if Dunta received a transition tag.

[Keith]

More on Dunta and the tag written here:
http://www.inthebullseye.com/archive/2009/20090130.html

Those franchise and transition #s I posted in this thread yesterday look good, too.

[nero THE zero]

Wonderful article as usual. You captured my thoughts perfectly.

[nunusguy]

Dunta Robinson, Texans. Age: 27.
Dunta Robinson is a talented corner who played relatively well coming off a torn ACL. However, the question is whether or not he can stay healthy.
http://www.walterfootball.com/freeagents2009CB.php
**************************************
In Walterfootball.com website, they have D-Rob rated as only the 7th best
CB available in FA, so one has to assume he's way down the list in the ranking of all active corners in the league. I dunno how others feel about this
ranking, but if its accurate then if D-Rob is holding out for big bucks sounds as if he's not being very realistic ?
****
For comparison, they give D-Rob a "3 star" ranking while they assign a "41/2
star" ranking to OD, their top rated TE among FA/UFA this year.
****
Owen Daniels (RFA), Texans. Age: 26.
Owen Daniels has emerged as one of the top tight ends in the league. In his third season, he caught 70 passes for 862 yards. His numbers would have been even better if Matt Schaub didn't miss a handful of games.

[cadams]

I would be willing to bet that they have him ranked like that because he is coming off an injury.

[Roy P]

I wonder if we let Dunta walk so we can go after #3 Dom Foxworth. He played in Denver, right?

[kRocket]

I am wondering something similar. There has been some consensus that a DT is one of our highest priorities. A space eater that will turn Mario loose. One of the top DT's in the NFL is available and that is Albert Haynesworth. He has been called a thug, he will be our thug and that makes a difference. He brings the spirit and grit to the defense that we lack today. To help pay his exorbitant payroll we would have to let DRob go. Then our number one draft choice is open to get Robert Ayres or a CB if we think we still need a CB. Albert is what makes the Titans one of the best defenses in the NFL and as we saw during the playoffs defense ruled, quite obviously.

[RunninRaven]

If we let Dunta walk so we can sign Haynesworth's punk, oft-injured ass to a big deal I'm going to be PISSED.

[kRocket]

Fat Albert is one of the top two or three DT's in the league and DRob was not even in the top 5 CB's before he was hurt. We don't really know if he can get back to where he was much less get better. Are we really going to pay a bunch of cash to keep an unknown commodity? I think Roy P. may have been joking but I am not. The other offense cannot double team two of our defensive people at the same time. Mario is considerably better than Vanden Bosch and the Titan line is considered one of the best in football. Okoye ought to come on strong in his third year or be considered a bust. He was still the fourth youngest DLineman in the NFL at the beginning of Training Camp last year. And again you have the draft to fill in the blanks.

Haynesworth did start 14 games last year where he had 51 tackles, including 41 solo, and 8.5 sacks. Sorry, but I would make the trade-off any day.

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by kRocket

Fat Albert is one of the top two or three DT's in the league and DRob was not even in the top 5 CB's before he was hurt. We don't really know if he can get back to where he was much less get better. Are we really going to pay a bunch of cash to keep an unknown commodity? I think Roy P. may have been joking but I am not. The other offense cannot double team two of our defensive people at the same time. Mario is considerably better than Vanden Bosch and the Titan line is considered one of the best in football. Okoye ought to come on strong in his third year or be considered a bust. He was still the fourth youngest DLineman in the NFL at the beginning of Training Camp last year. And again you have the draft to fill in the blanks.

Haynesworth did start 14 games last year where he had 51 tackles, including 41 solo, and 8.5 sacks. Sorry, but I would make the trade-off any day.

I can't argue that Dunta is the better player. However, a few things to keep in mind:

1. Dunta has been pretty good despite entiring his prime with a horrific defensive staff and very little talent surrounding him- followed by the injury.

2. Meanwhile, even when Haynesworth is on the bench, guys like JJones and others I've never heard of dominate the interior line for Tennessee. Clearly, the Tennessee DL coach and coordinator has been excellent for his and the defense'sdevelopment.

3. Leadership! Dunta is a good leader, Albert ain't.

My point is that Dunta next year and the years following may turn out to be a greater asset to the Texans than Albert would, if he were here. Plus, I don't want to have to root for that SOB!

[kRocket]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

I can't argue that Dunta is the better player. However, a few things to keep in mind:

1. Dunta has been pretty good despite entiring his prime with a horrific defensive staff and very little talent surrounding him- followed by the injury.

2. Meanwhile, even when Haynesworth is on the bench, guys like JJones and others I've never heard of dominate the interior line for Tennessee. Clearly, the Tennessee DL coach and coordinator has been excellent for his and the defense'sdevelopment.

3. Leadership! Dunta is a good leader, Albert ain't.

My point is that Dunta next year and the years following may turn out to be a greater asset to the Texans than Albert would, if he were here. Plus, I don't want to have to root for that SOB!

1. Dunta was pretty good and may still be, but he may not be as good as he was and I feel he will want a big payday anyway.

2. If you look at the Stats nobody came close to AH's productivity for the Titans. For that matter AH did better than any 2 of our DT's put together.

3. We haven't had a true leader on the defense since Aaron Glenn (started 1 game for the saints last year) and Jamie Sharper (retired injury) left after 2004. That has been hailed as one of our biggest hurdles all year and back into last.

To be honest I believe your last statement is the real reason you don't want him. You (and many others) just don't like him. Al or Jerry will get him and just get that much better.

[kravix]

I like DRob, but he is not one of the best corners in the league. He has the potential to be very very good,the lack of talent around him, and piss poor schemes his whole career dont help. Great players standout no matter where they are though.

I dont agree that he should make top money. I would pay him middle of the road money though.

[cadams]

Originally Posted by kRocket

1. Dunta was pretty good and may still be, but he may not be as good as he was and I feel he will want a big payday anyway.

2. If you look at the Stats nobody came close to AH's productivity for the Titans. For that matter AH did better than any 2 of our DT's put together.

3. We haven't had a true leader on the defense since Aaron Glenn (started 1 game for the saints last year) and Jamie Sharper (retired injury) left after 2004. That has been hailed as one of our biggest hurdles all year and back into last.

To be honest I believe your last statement is the real reason you don't want him. You (and many others) just don't like him. Al or Jerry will get him and just get that much better.

I think paying AH would be a bad move. I think once he gets that big contract his production will drop