Official Texans @ Patriots Game Thread, 9/24/2017

[Arky]

Early line for next week has the Titans favored by 2½.

Get some sunglasses because the future looks bright......

[chuck]

I thought Deshaun was incredible. The first touchdown throw I said Touchdown! just as he released it. Although you could see a very small part of the field, it was just blindingly obvious that he saw someone open and that he was throwing it to the end zone. By the way, how typical is it that the team has thrown all sorts of picks at the WR position and the best receiver on the team not named Deandre is a guy they signed off the street?

Despite some egregious clock management issues and some typically terrible play calling, I thought the game plan was more or less exactly what it needed to be. Play action worked great, the roll outs were great and I'd like to see more of them, you can do a lot with the split back sets and I'd like to see them use that formation more both for pass protection and for rushing plays. Other than the first possession we didn't see much running towards the sideline, and I think with Watson's legs you can use an option pitch out of the split back set to great effect once or twice a game.

In a similar concept to isn't it amazing how much smarter your father gets as you go from 17 to 25, isn't it amazing how much better the OL gets when you employ a decent game plan? Sure NE's front seven is at best nothing special, but still.

The bad news is the team's secondary is horrific. The good news is most teams don't have Tom Brady to exploit it.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by chuck

I thought Deshaun was incredible. The first touchdown throw I said Touchdown! just as he released it. Although you could see a very small part of the field, it was just blindingly obvious that he saw someone open and that he was throwing it to the end zone. By the way, how typical is it that the team has thrown all sorts of picks at the WR position and the best receiver on the team not named Deandre is a guy they signed off the street?

Despite some egregious clock management issues and some typically terrible play calling, I thought the game plan was more or less exactly what it needed to be. Play action worked great, the roll outs were great and I'd like to see more of them, you can do a lot with the split back sets and I'd like to see them use that formation more both for pass protection and for rushing plays. Other than the first possession we didn't see much running towards the sideline, and I think with Watson's legs you can use an option pitch out of the split back set to great effect once or twice a game.

In a similar concept to isn't it amazing how much smarter your father gets as you go from 17 to 25, isn't it amazing how much better the OL gets when you employ a decent game plan? Sure NE's front seven is at best nothing special, but still.

The bad news is the team's secondary is horrific. The good news is most teams don't have Tom Brady to exploit it.

I almost think Kareem Jackson should skip safety and move straight to LB. The guy is an amazing tackler. He made a beautiful tackle on a wide run that made me shout for joy, and then like 2 plays later he was called for holding. The past 2 weeks I've seen him up near the LOS so often and he's been awesome. But he still can't find the ball when it's in the air if his life depends on it. Make him a Nickle ILB like they used to do with Glover Quinn.

And yes, Watson is very talented. It's almost as if the QBs drafted early in the draft are more talented than if you sign an unwanted veteran backup.

[Arky]

The second guessing post-game has been through the roof on radio, TV and internet.

"Get better each day." "An improvement league." "Gotta coach better." "Gotta do a better job in that situation." While these mantras are OB's go-to expressions in post-game pressers, one assumes that one has a basic level of competence to start with.... So, hearing these mantras repeated over and over, it really gets annoying when Coaching 101 errors are made.... OB has been on the job for three years and change, now, so when he says, "it's on me", you better believe it......

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Would have been quite a feather in Watson's cap to be the one rookie who defeated the Pats at home. Next time the Texans play the Pats, win or lose, I hope they beat 'em up....

Bottom line: The game vs the Pats could have gone either way. The Pats just had the lead when time expired....

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Good news: We got a QB and (so far), a FG kicker.

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Three home games scheduled next: Titans, Chiefs (SNF) and Browns and then the bye. I'd take 3-3 before the break, of course, 4-2 would be better. I had no hope of a winning record after Week 1 but that now may be achievable....

[chuck]

Originally Posted by barrett

And yes, Watson is very talented. It's almost as if the QBs drafted early in the draft are more talented than if you sign an unwanted veteran backup.

You know what, I'm starting to lean in that direction.

KJ has always been very good in the slot and terrible outside. Ha- I was going to rehash what we could be doing if we had a competent GM but I won't bother; we all know.

Arky makes a good point I've been meaning to make - the team's coverage has yet to give up a long return when Fairbairn kicks off and the ball goes out of the back of the end zone. That's another weird rule that as a Texans fan I was previously unfamiliar with.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by chuck

some typically terrible play calling

There of course was some typically terrible playcalling. That series in the middle of the 4th quarter with three straight pass plays, at a time when it was unseasonably warm and the Pats D was gassed, at a time when the Texans finally had a late lead and you knew you didn't want to give Brady extra time, just inexcusable. Keep pounding with Foreman.

Honestly, I was pleasantly shocked until then at how the offensive playcalling was going. It accentuated Watson's talent. I really never thought O'Brien would open it up as much as he did in - gasp - the rookie's second start. As Watson's downfield accuracy improves, he will really elevate this team. It made everything look better on Sunday, from the OL to the running game.

But yes, some typically terrible playcalling might have cost the Texans the opportunity from winning.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Keith

There of course was some typically terrible playcalling. That series in the middle of the 4th quarter with three straight pass plays, at a time when it was unseasonably warm and the Pats D was gassed, at a time when the Texans finally had a late lead and you knew you didn't want to give Brady extra time, just inexcusable. Keep pounding with Foreman.

Honestly, I was pleasantly shocked until then at how the offensive playcalling was going. It accentuated Watson's talent. I really never thought O'Brien would open it up as much as he did in - gasp - the rookie's second start. As Watson's downfield accuracy improves, he will really elevate this team. It made everything look better on Sunday, from the OL to the running game.

But yes, some typically terrible playcalling might have cost the Texans the opportunity from winning.

I don't have a big problem with the 3 passes other than it didn't work. I like being aggressive there. I would have had a bigger problem with 3 straight runs in that situation. And I have a much bigger problem running Lamar Miller on 3rd and 1 and then kicking the FG on 4th and 1.

[Keith]

It was an interesting strategy given how conservatively O'Brien called plays down the stretch in Cincinnati. I expected he would do something similar at New England once he had the lead to maintain time of possession, especially since it seemed like a 3-headed rushing attack of Watson, Miller, and Foreman would be tough to contain.

As for running Miller on 3rd and 1, agreed. Either run Foreman on that play or perhaps throw something short, esp if you plan to go for it on fourth down anyway.

I was absolutely in favor of kicking the FG though. What Brady had to accomplish to win that game was not a given; it was not easy. In fact, he nearly blew it if Corey Moore hangs on to that pick. And I'm still not sure the scoring catch is still ruled a catch outside of Massachusetts. The odds are in the Texans defense's favor to keep the Pats out of that end zone.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Keith

It was an interesting strategy given how conservatively O'Brien called plays down the stretch in Cincinnati. I expected he would do something similar at New England once he had the lead to maintain time of possession, especially since it seemed like a 3-headed rushing attack of Watson, Miller, and Foreman would be tough to contain.

As for running Miller on 3rd and 1, agreed. Either run Foreman on that play or perhaps throw something short, esp if you plan to go for it on fourth down anyway.

I was absolutely in favor of kicking the FG though. What Brady had to accomplish to win that game was not a given; it was not easy. In fact, he nearly blew it if Corey Moore hangs on to that pick. And I'm still not sure the scoring catch is still ruled a catch outside of Massachusetts. The odds are in the Texans defense's favor to keep the Pats out of that end zone.

Against any team other than NE I kick the FG.

As for running Miller on 3rd down I cannot come up with any reasonable explanation. He's a terrible short yardage runner. Run Foreman or simply spread them out and go QB lead. But why run the guy who hates contact into the middle of the line on the biggest play of the game? That to me is far worse than staying aggressive and putting the ball in Watson's hands 3 times after he just marched down the field.

[Arky]

Sure miss Arian Foster. On short yardage plays, he always seemed to find a weak crack to dive through....

[chuck]

Originally Posted by Arky

Sure miss Arian Foster. On short yardage plays, he always seemed to find a weak crack to dive through....

At the time we all knew he was great but still I think he was incredibly underrated. A lot of that is his having only four great years, and a lot of that was his own fault having jerked around in college so much. Had he had his act together and come out of a big school after his junior year, who knows what he might have done. He was old enough his rookie year that you had to wonder if he'd spent time on a Mormon mission in Papua New Guinea or some shit. Good luck with that, by the way, Devin. Let's see you pedal that Schwinn through the jungle mud when Septugon and Iriputiz are hot on your trail, spears in hand.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by chuck

At the time we all knew he was great but still I think he was incredibly underrated. A lot of that is his having only four great years, and a lot of that was his own fault having jerked around in college so much. Had he had his act together and come out of a big school after his junior year, who knows what he might have done. He was old enough his rookie year that you had to wonder if he'd spent time on a Mormon mission in Papua New Guinea or some shit. Good luck with that, by the way, Devin. Let's see you pedal that Schwinn through the jungle mud when Septugon and Iriputiz are hot on your trail, spears in hand.

There have not been many more complete backs in NFL history. I can't think of anyone who was as good at so many things (running, catching, blocking, big plays, short yardage, route running, etc). And he was huge in the playoffs. He carried Matt Schaub teams to victory in two playoff games. Over 650 total yards and 6 TDs in 4 playoff games. And all against loaded boxes and good defenses (Bal, Cin, NE).

[chuck]

He wasn't that big but you could always count on him picking up a tough yard if you needed one. He wasn't insanely fast but I don't remember any corner ever running him down. He was great at blitz pickup. But I think my most lasting memories involve that Kubiak bootleg where the defense for some incomprehensible reason lost track of Arian and let him get 30 yards downfield, in the MIDDLE of the field, for a huge gain.

I remember the first time they ever ran that play. I somehow knew where all the receivers were and what they were doing. Schaub's rolling out and suddenly he launches one down the middle of the field. Who the hell is he throwing that to??? Then I see Arian, running completely unmolested, no one anywhere near him.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by chuck

He wasn't that big but you could always count on him picking up a tough yard if you needed one. He wasn't insanely fast but I don't remember any corner ever running him down. He was great at blitz pickup. But I think my most lasting memories involve that Kubiak bootleg where the defense for some incomprehensible reason lost track of Arian and let him get 30 yards downfield, in the MIDDLE of the field, for a huge gain.

I remember the first time they ever ran that play. I somehow knew where all the receivers were and what they were doing. Schaub's rolling out and suddenly he launches one down the middle of the field. Who the hell is he throwing that to??? Then I see Arian, running completely unmolested, no one anywhere near him.

Kubiak had a stretch that season where he used wrinkles in the bootleg to create a downfield passing game. Throwback posts, TEs leaking out, Arian going deep. That was Kubiak's high mark stretch of creativity for a guy who most of the time looked like he was incapable of going off script.

[nunusguy]

Had to make one comment about the Pats game before the thread is closed out. Was out of town and watched the game from a sports bar in the small mountain town of Dillon, Montana.
I was so excited and I was going to buy the bar of strangers a round if the Texans won the game because I knew if they did the Chuckster would go out and bet every dollar (and peso) he has that they'd win the Super Bowl and I couldn't be out done. Silly me, nobody outdoes the Chuckster.
Anyway what a game and I honestly think we've finally got a QB - the kid played a great game. Now I'm really pumped about the Titans game.
Oh BTW, screw Duane Brown, i've had it with him. Let's get whatever pick or picks we can and let him go on his way.

[chuck]

You know what, I'm not much of a gambler. My brother lives in the Vegas area and he bets the NFL every weekend. I go up there from time to time and once in a great while I'll put a little money on a game for the hell of it but usually not. I'm not all that smart but I am smart enough to know that I can't be dispassionate about sports gambling, and that's a terrible handicap in that particular activity.

Craps is my casino game. I don't play it very much anymore but if I were to play a casino game I would play craps. I've done very, very well at some craps tables over the years. There are some locals casinos in Vegas that give the odds I need to play. There's one decent place on the Strip that gives good odds. I can't remember the name, it's newish and over by the Linq. There are a million casinos here but they give shit odds and I know from experience that they get their panties in a twist if you set the dice so whenever I go to casinos here, which is less frequently than I go to Vegas, really, I tend to eschew the tables and spend my time drinking beer and chatting with the Colombian hookers of which there typically is no lack.

I was in Vegas a number of years ago when my national team was playing a futbol game against hated Mexico. I just had to bet on that, you know. I was out with my poor wife and my poor mother and I dragged them over to the Hilton. They call it something different now I think, but the sports book over there will take action on any damn thing and I knew they'd have odds on the futbol. And they did, of course. There was no one in the sports book at the time and really only a couple of windows open. I wandered up to one and had a couple of questions about how the futbol odds work. As I mentioned, I'm not a tremendously experienced sports bettor and while I understand football gambling just fine the futbol with its draws and whatnot was a little unfamiliar to me. So I clarify things with the fine fellow there and I place my modest wager and I get my slip (and my drink tickets, of course) and I turn around to see that my wife and my mother are staring at me in horror. At first I have no idea what their problem is. I walk over to them and their expression does not change, just mouth wide open amazement. I turn back to look at the window and I see that without realizing it I'd wandered up to the $1,000 minimum window. The guy at the window didn't say a word to me about my bullshit bet, of course. It was kind of like the few times I've ever gone into a gay bar by mistake. The dude knew I was an idiot and rather than raise a fuss he'd just take my bet and assume I'd quickly get the hell out of there and not bother him anymore. Which is what happened, of course.

But my wife and my mother didn't know this. So once I figured out what they were so shocked by I slowly turned back around and gave my best Barney Fife style deep sniff and said, Yeah, well, sometimes you've got to go big, and walked off.

We lost that game, needless to say. 2-1 if I recall correctly.

But you know what, nu? I'm going to be in Vegas next month and maybe, just for you, I'll throw a couple of sawbucks at the Texans as Super Bowl champs. Say, now that I think about it, I'm surprised you're not boycotting the NFL.

[barrett]

Vegas of course doesn't keep building casinos because they lose.

My brothers both live in southern california with the rest of my family and they go to Vegas a lot. My wife and I go sometimes and I almost always resist the urge to bet on anything sports or cards or dice.

But a few years ago I was there during the opening weekend of the NCAA basketball tournament and it couldn't be helped. I made a modest bet but wanted big returns so I went with a 6 team teaser on the late games that afternoon/evening.

I hit the first 5 and was in a sports bar with my wife and brother watching the 6th and it was going my way. That is until the University of Texas lost at the buzzer on a beyond half court shot.

Moral of the story is Vegas doesn't build casinos because they lose.

[HPF Bob]

Foster, IIRC, was recruited by some college and then transfered to Tennessee, which means he sat out a year. He also waited until his senior year to enter for the draft so that counted an extra year. Did he not also take a redshirt year for an injury?

As for picking up that tough yard, I remember differently. Yes, he was good at stretching for the first down. But on 3rd-and-1, we ran an off-tackle to the left so many times that we might as well have announced it on the PA before the ball was snapped. Foster didn't get many first downs on that play but it wasn't his fault since blind sisters of the poor could have forecasted Kubiak's play call.

And as for Vegas - flew there once in 2008 to hook up with an old friend who was flying in from out of the country. I even forgot it was Election Night and hundreds of union thugs stampeded through the casino chanting "Obama! Obama! Obama!" Didn't matter since I wasn't there to gamble. My lady friend and I holed up in her room until all the commotion died down and got caught up on old acquaintances. Next night, I was flying back to Texas and she back to Japan. Hadn't flown again until last week.

Did a minor amount of gambling at the airport but didn't win once. FWIW, the casinos in Lake Charles were more fun.

Oh, and Duane Brown. If we won't/can't sign him, let's see if we can find someone willing to part with a first or second-day draft pick next spring to trade him to. We don't have to worry about caps now until next spring.

[Arky]

I went back through the game thread and looked at all the 3rd and 1 situations for the Texans:

Watson kept for 5 and the 1st down.
Foreman went for 4 and the 1st down.
L Miller stopped.
L Miller stopped. (yes, that would be twice)

Also of note:

On a 3rd and 2, Watson did a QB draw and got 7.
On a 2nd and 1, L Miller got 2 yards.

Conclusion: In this small sample size, give it to anyone but L Miller on 3rd and 1.

I can remember complaining (last year?) here about how the Texans must lead the league in 4th and 1. Seems to happen too much in OB's offense....

[barrett]

I think I heard Bob say he'd prefer the reverse to Kevin Walter to another Lamar Miller 3rd and 1.