Trade Dunta?

[barrett]

Originally Posted by bckey

It doesn't really come down to how DRob compares to the elite cb's of the NFL. It comes down to his unwillingness to sign what was reported to be a Chris Gamble type contract. The Texans offered him elite money even with the unsurety of him ever being what he was pre-injury. Instead the Texans had to franchise him so that he couldn't just walk. Dunta has made it pretty clear he doesn't want to play in Houston with his actions not necessarily his words. He said he would report to camp if the Texans would promise not to franchise him next year. He wants to play somewhere else. He has alienated himself from most Texan fans that used to be behind him 100%. I'm worried he will be a cancer in the lockeroom this year because he feels he has been disrespected by Rick Smith and the fans are really getting tired of all his whining. I say get rid of him now and be done with him.

Who cares if he alienated fans? That has nothing to do with anything. I would hope that those alienated fans care more about winning and what's best for the team.

If we can't get a player for Dunta their is absolutely ZERO reason to trade him before next year's draft. Use him for what he's worth before he leaves if that's what he wants. The franchise tag gives us all the power here and letting him get his way for pouting just because some fans don't like him anymore would be foolish.

[Big Texas]

I understand that he is possibly being stubborn here. But how many stars are not. There is definately a business side to football. Me personally I would have taken the franchise tag offer and worked my ass off this year to prove that I was worth a long term deal. But its not me. I dont think this is a personal attack on the team in any way. When it comes down to the business side, the players must look out for themselves because the owners surely are not. They will trade you or release you without a hesitation if it fits their scheme of things. So he must look out for himself or no one will.

2. Its not uncommon for players to want long term security.

[bckey]

Originally Posted by Big Texas

Its not uncommon for players to want long term security.

But Dunta doesn't want that security in Houston

[edo783]

Dunta WAS offered long term security at a level FAR above what he should have been (20+ million guaranteed), but top 5 CB money just wasn't good enough for him. What does that say? To me it says "I don't care what you offer, I don't want to be here". So, the team stuck with him through his injury and paid him the whole time with no complaints and he turns around and craps in their hand on the long term offer that he supposedly wanted and then snivels that they franchise him for a MERE 9.9 million guaranteed and then wants them to grantee they wont franchise him next year. Well screw him and the horse he rode in on. Wait to the last dang minute, withdraw the tag and let him get what he deserves...... maybe 2 million from some team. And that BS about "They said they wouldn't franchise me" is just that, BS. If he has more smarts than a box of rocks, he would know that isn't even a possibility in the negotiations. The team probably didn't expect to have to do it because they expected him to accept the type of offer he said he was looking for. Frack him and chuck his butt out of town in the worst possible situation that they can create. If the team was trying to low ball him and take advantage of his injury situation I would feel very differently, but basically the guy flat out lied about wanting to be a Texan until he retired and he proved it when he rejected exactly the type of contract he said he wanted.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by edo783

Dunta WAS offered long term security at a level FAR above what he should have been (20+ million guaranteed), but top 5 CB money just wasn't good enough for him. What does that say? To me it says "I don't care what you offer, I don't want to be here". So, the team stuck with him through his injury and paid him the whole time with no complaints and he turns around and craps in their hand on the long term offer that he supposedly wanted and then snivels that they franchise him for a MERE 9.9 million guaranteed and then wants them to grantee they wont franchise him next year. Well screw him and the horse he rode in on. Wait to the last dang minute, withdraw the tag and let him get what he deserves...... maybe 2 million from some team. And that BS about "They said they wouldn't franchise me" is just that, BS. If he has more smarts than a box of rocks, he would know that isn't even a possibility in the negotiations. The team probably didn't expect to have to do it because they expected him to accept the type of offer he said he was looking for. Frack him and chuck his butt out of town in the worst possible situation that they can create. If the team was trying to low ball him and take advantage of his injury situation I would feel very differently, but basically the guy flat out lied about wanting to be a Texan until he retired and he proved it when he rejected exactly the type of contract he said he wanted.

Please explain how this helps the Texans win football games next year.

[edo783]

Originally Posted by barrett

Please explain how this helps the Texans win football games next year.

By keeping the 10 mill and getting player(s) who wants to be here and will actually contribute to the team and not be a locker room asshat. Heck use the money to sign the guys that are actually playing and needing a new contract. I think there might be a couple of those guys out there. It also gives the satisfaction of punking a dipstick that basically spit in your face while lying to you. Dunta on his BEST day was a just slightly above average CB. Pretty good against the run and fair at best against the pass. Last season showed him to be less than marginal as a CB. Might he come back better than last year, yes but do you really think he will even be back to 90% of what he was when he was just slightly above average? So we make him a stupendous offer and get treated this way.... I'm sorry, when the team goes out of it's way to do more than fair by the player and you get this level of whinny disrespect, then just jackem up. And if you think any one will trade a 1st or even a 2nd for him you need to back off on the drugs.

[bckey]

I pretty much agree with everything edo783 said concerning Dunta. Get rid of the bum. The sooner the better.

[popanot]

First sign of a contract squabbled and people fly off the deep end. I'm sure glad Kubiak and Smith are playing this close to the vest and not overreacting. It would not surprise me at all to see this getting resolved with a new contract at some point. If it doesn't, well then trade him before the '10 draft - or for a player like Landry or Atogwe (sp??). Dunta has everything to lose by not playing hard and/or being an a$$-clown in the locker room this year. I doubt he's going to do that. He might make a comment to the media about his contract status from time to time, but I doubt he's going to be a disruptive force in the locker room. For one, I don't think the leaders on this team would put up with it, and second, Kubiak would put his arse on the pine if he doesn't perform and they have a suitable replacement. Dunta loses big-time if that happens.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by edo783

By keeping the 10 mill and getting player(s) who wants to be here and will actually contribute to the team and not be a locker room asshat. Heck use the money to sign the guys that are actually playing and needing a new contract. I think there might be a couple of those guys out there. It also gives the satisfaction of punking a dipstick that basically spit in your face while lying to you. Dunta on his BEST day was a just slightly above average CB. Pretty good against the run and fair at best against the pass. Last season showed him to be less than marginal as a CB. Might he come back better than last year, yes but do you really think he will even be back to 90% of what he was when he was just slightly above average? So we make him a stupendous offer and get treated this way.... I'm sorry, when the team goes out of it's way to do more than fair by the player and you get this level of whinny disrespect, then just jackem up. And if you think any one will trade a 1st or even a 2nd for him you need to back off on the drugs.

I still cannot believe that you are calling for the team to just let him go. Some are calling for a trade, and while not logical in timing, it is a possible NFL move. To just pull the offer and let him walk is colosally stupid.

Almost nothing you said has anything to do with winning games next year. Most of it is just whining that is out of all proportion to the situation. You are reacting like Dunta has somehow personally wronged you by trying to get paid more money. He may be delusional and he may not want to play in Houston, but neither makes him the anti-christ.

Dunta will sign the offer before he loses game checks because obviously money matters to him. Then he will play hard for us because it's a business and he'll be auditioning for a new team. Then he will likely leave after the year through a trade for a 2010 draft pick. In this scenario we get a season of play from him (and he is certainly one of our 2 best CBs). And we get compensation for him in some form when he leaves.

In your scenario we get the "satisfaction of punking a dipstick that basically spit in your face while lying to you." I am very glad that our GM isn't running our franchise looking to punk people.

[Big Texas]

Originally Posted by barrett

Almost nothing you said has anything to do with winning games next year

Agreed.

I dont understand why people are really pushing to get rid of this guy as if CB is our strongest position. If by some stretch of the imagination he is released or traded for a 2010 draft pick, I hope Quin becomes a stud because otherwise we will be bringing back the same sub par secondary that we had last year.

And as far as saving the money from Dunta contract to sign a good player. I can count on one hand how many impactful free agents we've signed since our inception.

Lets just go with our best options for winning right now.

[jppaul]

Originally Posted by NBT

I hear all this crap about what Dunta deserves, but what about what the team deserves? The Texans weren't exactly putting DRob on bread and water when they offered $23M in guaranteed money! Come on people, he is looking out for himself to get the fattest contract he can get before the league starts capping these humongous bonuses.

I don't know, I think he is scared of injury. I think that last injury shook him. If you need evidence, the look at every play where a pile was rolling up on him, he looked like a rabbit, hopping around.

In a game dominated by bravado and fearlessness, amongst a car crash a play, the realization of your own mortality in the context of football life, has to be a debilitating thought.

Compound that with the epiphany that this is all you have ever done, that you have little skill outside of a 40x100 rectangle of sod, and other likeminded individuals, little other ability to make a living or to provide for your family, it makes sense.

Considering all that I think his position becomes clear, and I for one firmly believe that he should do what is best for his family. I know that by stating such sentiments I am standing in the way of an almost universal countertide, but I have little problem with Dunta or his stance.

[Nconroe]

Well, just for the sake of discussion, if Dunta were really upset, and became a locker room cancer,or really wants out of town, and likely that is not the case, but if it was judged to be true by those close enough to know, then it would help win games if he were not here. But, if it is just negotiating, no hard feelings, everyone is positive, all the teammates are ok, then keep him, assuming he can play good enough to make the team, like he did three years ago. And maybe he gets a long term deal and everyone is happy and even more happy once we go to the playoffs. We seem to get mixed signals out of Dunta and his agents, so we get confused on the best way forward as well.

[jppaul]

Originally Posted by Nconroe

Well, just for the sake of discussion, if Dunta were really upset, and became a locker room cancer,or really wants out of town, and likely that is not the case, but if it was judged to be true by those close enough to know, then it would help win games if he were not here. But, if it is just negotiating, no hard feelings, everyone is positive, all the teammates are ok, then keep him, assuming he can play good enough to make the team, like he did three years ago. And maybe he gets a long term deal and everyone is happy and even more happy once we go to the playoffs. We seem to get mixed signals out of Dunta and his agents, so we get confused on the best way forward as well.

Sounds like a fair enough assessment.

[popanot]

So now that Daniels has decided to take the Dunta route, I guess we should jettison him too.

Greedy bastards!!

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...t/6466951.html

[bckey]

I think Dunta's case is unique. He turned down what pretty much everyone except him thinks is a more than fair offer and long term deal. The guy doesn't want to play in Houston and he is mad because he got franchised.

[NBT]

Originally Posted by popanot

So now that Daniels has decided to take the Dunta route, I guess we should jettison him too.

Greedy bastards!!

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...t/6466951.html

It's the nature of the NFL beast right now. The CBA is about to exprire and the players whose contracts are expiring are getting antsy over their money. Right now I can't put Daniels in the same league with Robinson. Owen is restricted and Dunta is F-tagged. Lots of difference there. Owen is mildly confused, Dunta is foaming at the mouth over the F-tag. I would placate Owen and get rid of the other.

[dadmg]

Originally Posted by NBT

Owen is mildly confused

Daniels isn't mildly confused; he knows that if they don't reach a CBA then he will not be a free agent next year because the uncapped year rules are different and require more accrued experience.

[dadmg]

Originally Posted by bckey

I think Dunta's case is unique. He turned down what pretty much everyone except him thinks is a more than fair offer and long term deal. The guy doesn't want to play in Houston and he is mad because he got franchised.

I would be willing to bet he'd get a much better deal in free agency if he has a solid year. I can understand why the Texans wouldn't want to go higher, but I still think they're wrong.

In 2007, Asante Samuel got $20 million guaranteed on a 6-year, $57 million contract.

In 2008, Nnamdi Asomugha got $28.5 million guaranteed on a three year, $45 million contract, Marcus Trufant got a $20 million guaranteed on a 6-year $50 contract, and Chris Gamble got a $23 million guaranteed on 6 years and $50 million.

Asomugha is the top CB in the league and Dunta won't approach that money, even with the increases that come from year to year. But I think that Trufant and Gamble were able to get similar deals to Samuel a year later is as good an indicator as any of the way contracts go up each year. Considering the likely increase next year even if they reach a CBA, Dunta should be able to get $22-25 million guaranteed if he has a decent year. And if there is an uncapped year then that money might go up further. Last I heard, the Texans were supposedly offering $18-19 and Dunta wanted $23. I think it'd be rather shocking if he couldn't make better than the Texans offer on the open market. I think there's a good chance he could make more than he's asking for right now. Add in that Dunta has sufficient leverage to ask for the franchise tender to have a no-franchise clause (which has happened several times in the last few years) and the leverage goes even more in Dunta's favor. It may be a lot of money, but the Texans offer doesn't look like much more than an opening offer. If that's their final offer, Dunta should leave.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by dadmg

I would be willing to bet he'd get a much better deal in free agency if he has a solid year. I can understand why the Texans wouldn't want to go higher, but I still think they're wrong.

In 2007, Asante Samuel got $20 million guaranteed on a 6-year, $57 million contract.

In 2008, Nnamdi Asomugha got $28.5 million guaranteed on a three year, $45 million contract, Marcus Trufant got a $20 million guaranteed on a 6-year $50 contract, and Chris Gamble got a $23 million guaranteed on 6 years and $50 million.

Asomugha is the top CB in the league and Dunta won't approach that money, even with the increases that come from year to year. But I think that Trufant and Gamble were able to get similar deals to Samuel a year later is as good an indicator as any of the way contracts go up each year. Considering the likely increase next year even if they reach a CBA, Dunta should be able to get $22-25 million guaranteed if he has a decent year. And if there is an uncapped year then that money might go up further. Last I heard, the Texans were supposedly offering $18-19 and Dunta wanted $23. I think it'd be rather shocking if he couldn't make better than the Texans offer on the open market. I think there's a good chance he could make more than he's asking for right now. Add in that Dunta has sufficient leverage to ask for the franchise tender to have a no-franchise clause (which has happened several times in the last few years) and the leverage goes even more in Dunta's favor. It may be a lot of money, but the Texans offer doesn't look like much more than an opening offer. If that's their final offer, Dunta should leave.

You act like Dunta is coming off of a career year. He's not. He's coming off of starting the year on the PUP and then finishing it as a part time player who could tackle but couldn't cover.

To this point we have not seen Dunta close to the level he played at in 2007. To me it makes sense that if he wants a long term deal right now under these circumstances, then he is going to have to give a discount for security's sake. Or if he is that confiddent in himself and his health, he can play the year at $10 million and get the big payday next year. Either way he has no right to cash in for anything close to $25 million based on what he showed on the field last year.

So sign the deal for less or bet on yourself and perform your way to the big deal next year. I hope he plays like the Dunta of old and gets every dollar he can. But either way I am glad we're not throwing $25 million at a guy who is almost 2 years away from playing good football.

[edo783]

According to reports and not denied by Dunta or his agent, we offered him a contract similar to Gamble's, long term with 23 million guaranteed. Even in his BEST form that would probably be more than he is worth, or at the very least at the very top of his market/playing worth. We did that after paying him during the time he was off and after a less than stellar return and yet he didn't want the deal. To think that we some how didn't give a stupendously good offer is ludicrous. IMO, we are lucky he didn't take it as he isn't worth it nor IMO is he worth the 9.9 mill of the franchise. Lots of fans are in love with the hits he does in the run game, but seem to forget that other than his rookie year, he was rather consistently beat in the passing game. Does he seem to bring some fire to the defense, yes at times, but is that worth burying the cap room to pay for what is a mediocre CB at best and perhaps not even mediocre these days.