Bob McNair

[Arky]

Originally Posted by chuck

It's not politics. I'm sorry you see it that way.

It's not? Well, you need to get the word out. How about the word "agenda"? Better?

If I pay for entertainment, I want entertainment not entertainment + politics/agendas. The golden goose that is the NFL is being given small doses of poison each and every week. Many have left. I am not far behind.

[chuck]

McNeck's at it again.

Sexual harrassment is literally a joke to this fkface.

[HPF Bob]

A link might have been appropriate.

This appears to be it:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...son/457174002/

McNair is defending outgoing Panthers owner Jerry Richardson claiming Richardson's comments "might have been joking" and "didn't mean to offend anyone".

But it's really hard to tell what was said from all the editorializing contained in the story.

I'm sure McNair and Richardson are both friends and Carolina "good ol boys" and McNair probably hates to see a friend and someone he sees as a model owner being forced out. That's how I read it. Can we expect men in their 70s who grew up in a completely different environment than the hypersensitive one we live in today to completely "get it" when others accuse them of inappropriate comments? In our #MeToo generation where a hand on a shoulder can be blown up into a firing offense?

McNair would have been smart to simply say "no comment" or steer the conversation elsewhere but he sees a friend under siege and wanted to offer some support.

[barrett]

He basically said Richardson got a raw deal and shouldn't have had to sell the Panthers because sometimes rich guys pay sexual allegations off because it's cheaper.

The comment is debatable if it came from a guy defending himself. It's beyond idiotic when you come in from the outside to defend a guy who paid off sexually based allegations. It's almost as idiotic as the prison inmate comment. It's like he's totally unaware he's a public figure and his casual/generational racist/sexist comments won't play well with that public. Either he wants to crusade for the rights of those who pay off sexual harrassment allegations which is just dumb and hurts his franchise, or he is losing his faculties and things he normally wouldn't say out loud are slipping out as a result. Either way Cal needs to find a way to remove the old man from all media contact.

[chuck]

Hypersensitivity? Uh, no. Women have decided that they do not need to tolerate being sexually harrassed in the workplace (Hand on the shoulder? Come on, Buford.), and a lot of us have decided that casual racism on the part of powerful people needs to be punished severely because one of its results is innocent people being shot twenty times as they stand in their back yard minding their own business. And then they get handcuffed. (Nice touch, eh, Buford,the handcuffs?)

Large business, ideally local businesses, need to pull their sponsorships from the team. If I lived in Necktown I would go out of my way not to patronize the team's sponsors.

It is absolutely amazing to me how out of touch this freak is.

[HPF Bob]

I know you detest McNair (and that's your right) but it is illogical to connect him to a police shooting in Sacramento (one of the most liberal cities in the country) that he has nothing to do with.

I wasn't happy with the way SPD handled this but they didn't just show up to shoot a black guy. He was suspected of breaking into cars along his street after dark and was tracked by helicopter until police arrived. The helicopter video clearly shows the suspect vaulting over backyard fences when the police gave chase. Yes, he turned out to be unarmed but he was waving his girlfriend's pink cell phone at them rather than complying with orders to stop and throw up his hands. The police mistook the cell phone for a gun and opened fire.

Most damning was one officer's instruction to mute his bodycam before engaging the suspect. They should have also waited for the helicopter to put a spotlight on the suspect so they could more clearly see him.

None of this has anything to do with McNair or Richardson even if you want to stretch this into being the cause behind the kneel-down protests. Black Lives Matter incites protests while conveniently ignoring two major facts: 1) More cops are killed in shootings in the U.S. than they are the shooter and 2) Blacks are ten times more likely to be murdered by another black man in the U.S. than they are by a policeman of any race.

Police shootings are unfortunate and should be more rare but the selective outrage gives an unbalanced view of the severity of violence against minorities. They refuse to see the logs in their own eyes for their outrage about the speck in the eyes of others.

[chuck]

I'm not going to spend a lot of time with you on this because you have proven on countless occasions that you have neither the intellectual integrity nor the emotional maturity to engage productively on the subject. I'll just remind you that what organizations and individuals are pointing out is racism that is institutional. One reason we, in 2018, are still struggling with institutional racism is that powerful people continue to be racists, even people whose power largely stems from owning high profile businesses that operate via and profit largely from African American employees.

One of the most visible results of this institutional racism is the impunity with which police can and do murder citizens, a disproportionate number of whom are black men.

That is one example of many of why our society must punish high profile racists.

And on your blisteringly ignorant, Breitbart-level stupid ideas about shooting figures (I like how in your world BLM 'incites' rather than organizes protests), I'll just leave you with a headline:

Police fatally shot nearly 1,000 people, and 46 officers were killed, nationwide in 2017

https://tinyurl.com/ybukmjsl

[barrett]

Originally Posted by chuck

I'm not going to spend a lot of time with you on this because you have proven on countless occasions that you have neither the intellectual integrity nor the emotional maturity to engage productively on the subject. I'll just remind you that what organizations and individuals are pointing out is racism that is institutional. One reason we, in 2018, are still struggling with institutional racism is that powerful people continue to be racists, even people whose power largely stems from owning high profile businesses that operate via and profit largely from African American employees.

One of the most visible results of this institutional racism is the impunity with which police can and do murder citizens, a disproportionate number of whom are black men.

That is one example of many of why our society must punish high profile racists.

And on your blisteringly ignorant, Breitbart-level stupid ideas about shooting figures (I like how in your world BLM 'incites' rather than organizes protests), I'll just leave you with a headline:

Police fatally shot nearly 1,000 people, and 46 officers were killed, nationwide in 2017

https://tinyurl.com/ybukmjsl

As long as what you mean by 'punish racists' is boycott/punish economically/make them sell their money making football teams/etc... then I agree with you wholeheartedly. If you want to get rich owning football teams that spend tons of public money and take tons of tax breaks, then I hope you get economically crushed when your racism seeps out in public. But we absolutely cannot punish people legally for racist/sexist public comments.

We can punish Richardson for sexually harassing or racially discriminating against his employees (assuming the employees come forward instead of taking money). If the employees don't come forward but it comes out later then the best we can do is punish him with economic boycotts or a forced sale (for a reported $2.5 Billion. We should all be so punished).

Nothing McNair has said even approached any kind of legal punishment, but I do wish people would boycott to show him you can't just go around saying stuff like that.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by barrett

But we absolutely cannot punish people legally for racist/sexist public comments.

Of course not. People are free to say whatever dumbass shit they want.

People are not, however, free to assault employees sexually, which is one of the things Jerry did.

Also, while someone like Donald Sterling or Jerry Richardson (or McNeck) is free to be as big a racists shithead as he wants, the governing body of the league with which his team is affiliated is free to have statutes that discipline certain things that may be perfectly legally permissible in T̶e̶x̶a̶s̶ society at large.

I love how McNeck thinks that pussy grabbing is okey-dokey as long as you pay them off. Christ, I'm ready for these people to gtf away.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by chuck

Of course not. People are free to say whatever dumbass shit they want.

People are not, however, free to assault employees sexually, which is one of the things Jerry did.

Also, while someone like Donald Sterling or Jerry Richardson (or McNeck) is free to be as big a racists shithead as he wants, the governing body of the league with which his team is affiliated is free to have statutes that discipline certain things that may be perfectly legally permissible in T̶e̶x̶a̶s̶ society at large.

I love how McNeck thinks that pussy grabbing is okey-dokey as long as you pay them off. Christ, I'm ready for these people to gtf away.

It's one of the things he probably did. McNair's attempted point was that rich people pay off things like that because it's cheaper whether they did it or not. Maybe that's true on occasion. Since there was never a trial or even a legal accusation I won't weigh in. Whatever the circumstances it is more than enough that he should immediately lose his football team because of how he represented the NFL. According to the NFL an accusation and no payoff was enough to suspend Ezekiel Elliott for almost half a season. But Elliott is a black 'inmate' so it's no surprise that the 'wardens' hypocrisy allows them to punish him but not themselves.

But defending sexual assault that you are unconnected to is beyond stupid. In what world does a person wake up and say 'today I think I'll remind people that we need to be nicer to that guy who paid off sexual assault allegations.' I'm not sure what's worse, the fact that McNair believes that or the fact that he thinks it's ok to say it. I feel the same way about his inmates comment. I'm stumped by whether it's worse that he's casually racist or if it's worse that he is so comfortable being casually racist and thinks our world will accept it.

[HPF Bob]

I went back to the original SI article about Jerry Richardson and I don't see where his actions merit the word "assault". Is asking a woman how she fits into her tight jeans now "assault"? Crude, yes. But this is simply words, not rape. He would write comments to the ladies in the office about their looks and include a small gift to buy dinner or a dress. Awkward, yes. RAPE??? No.

Richardson did ask for some kinda icky things like asking an employee to come to his suite during a game to massage his feet. But, geez, the guy is in his 80s. She could have easily said 'no'.

Barrett is totally correct that men of wealth and power use money to buy off what, to others, seems rude or indiscreet. People (both sexes) decide if it is worth demeaning themselves to perform their boss' request or lose that "cool job" they have working for a sports team.

I've had to swallow my pride a few times when a boss demanded something I thought was unfair or unreasonable. But I always had the option of telling a boss "screw it" and quitting. So do these folks.

Should a football player get paid a couple of million and endure a few off-color jokes by the boss or should he quit and go back to washing cars or hauling trash? Ask Eric Reed how that's working out.

Unfair? As Jimmy Carter once opined, "Life is unfair".

[barrett]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

I went back to the original SI article about Jerry Richardson and I don't see where his actions merit the word "assault". Is asking a woman how she fits into her tight jeans now "assault"? Crude, yes. But this is simply words, not rape. He would write comments to the ladies in the office about their looks and include a small gift to buy dinner or a dress. Awkward, yes. RAPE??? No.

Richardson did ask for some kinda icky things like asking an employee to come to his suite during a game to massage his feet. But, geez, the guy is in his 80s. She could have easily said 'no'.

Barrett is totally correct that men of wealth and power use money to buy off what, to others, seems rude or indiscreet. People (both sexes) decide if it is worth demeaning themselves to perform their boss' request or lose that "cool job" they have working for a sports team.

I've had to swallow my pride a few times when a boss demanded something I thought was unfair or unreasonable. But I always had the option of telling a boss "screw it" and quitting. So do these folks.

Should a football player get paid a couple of million and endure a few off-color jokes by the boss or should he quit and go back to washing cars or hauling trash? Ask Eric Reed how that's working out.

Unfair? As Jimmy Carter once opined, "Life is unfair".

That's a pathetic take Bob.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by barrett

That's a pathetic take Bob.

When I was talking about intellectual integrity and emotional maturity this was EXACTLY what I was referring to. There's no merit to a response beyond yours.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by chuck

When I was talking about intellectual integrity and emotional maturity this was EXACTLY what I was referring to. There's no merit to a response beyond yours.

I agree. I actually typed a longer response addressing parts of his post but then decided it wasn't worth responding.

[HPF Bob]

A typical liberal debate tactic. Don't debate the issue, just hurl insults and impugn character. Well played.

Okay, men of such moral indignation, I would expect you to be consistent and demand that Jim Crane be forced to sell the Astros and to boycott all the Astros sponsors until it happens. You do know, of course, that Crane had EEOC complaints filed against him for racist comments and was accused of striking his son while the son was a minor, don't you? Richard Justice had all the details ready to go if Crane refused to switch leagues.

The SI story comments that they could find NO EEOC complaints against Richardson. Does McNair have any? I don't know but we already know what racists all three of them are so I expect you'll be demanding Crane sell the club. Once a racist, always a racist. Right, Chuck?

Unless you're just hypocrites, of course.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

A typical liberal debate tactic. Don't debate the issue, just hurl insults and impugn character. Well played.

Okay, men of such moral indignation, I would expect you to be consistent and demand that Jim Crane be forced to sell the Astros and to boycott all the Astros sponsors until it happens. You do know, of course, that Crane had EEOC complaints filed against him for racist comments and was accused of striking his son while the son was a minor, don't you? Richard Justice had all the details ready to go if Crane refused to switch leagues.

The SI story comments that they could find NO EEOC complaints against Richardson. Does McNair have any? I don't know but we already know what racists all three of them are so I expect you'll be demanding Crane sell the club. Once a racist, always a racist. Right, Chuck?

Unless you're just hypocrites, of course.

I could gaf about the Astros, Buford, you know that. I am well aware that Crane is an EEOC violating war profiteer. Yes, he hangs out with a better class of politician than does McNeck, but it would not bother me one bit if the league forced him to sell. Of course, the exact opposite happened, the leage allowed him to buy, knowing his foibles, AND they allowed him to finance a not insignificant piece of it. Which was just another FU to people like me already incensed with the forced league change.

So, yeah, Bufie, nice try, but no.

The Dick Justice cum Drayton enforcer is an angle I hadn't heard before, though, and that does interest me. Where did you source that?

[chuck]

I must caution you, sir, that to seize me about my pudendum is considered among people of my society a certain indiscretion, and, if I may be so bold, sir, also rude!

LOL @ Buford.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

A typical liberal debate tactic. Don't debate the issue, just hurl insults and impugn character. Well played.

Okay, men of such moral indignation, I would expect you to be consistent and demand that Jim Crane be forced to sell the Astros and to boycott all the Astros sponsors until it happens. You do know, of course, that Crane had EEOC complaints filed against him for racist comments and was accused of striking his son while the son was a minor, don't you? Richard Justice had all the details ready to go if Crane refused to switch leagues.

The SI story comments that they could find NO EEOC complaints against Richardson. Does McNair have any? I don't know but we already know what racists all three of them are so I expect you'll be demanding Crane sell the club. Once a racist, always a racist. Right, Chuck?

Unless you're just hypocrites, of course.

Who said I'm a liberal? And since when is being against sexual harrassment in the workplace a liberal position? You can't harass your employees, and when you do harass them and you pay them to keep quiet it might come back and get you. That should be common sense and not a political stance.

The fact that your mind makes opposing sexual harassment a liberal stance is disturbing.

[Keith]

WSJ has McNair comments...

(McNair) says that the prior offseason, the team looked at Kaepernick but the coaches "didn't like the way he threw the ball".

Uhh, what? I thought Bill O'Brien wanted Kaepernick at that point and were completely soured on Tom Savage.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/texans-...ark-1522941584

[chuck]

LMAO @ this racist old fool. Once again, a national laughingstock. Kaep's attornies must be laughing themselves sick.

You have to imagine that other owners are calling him like, Yo, Curly, STFU.

Calls Duane Brown a liar and many other players specifically confirm Duane's version. What a fking idiot.