How Tight is the QB Leash? Or is Schaub Just Too Conservative?

[Keith]

Well, something to keep in mind is these guys are human beings. After Kubiak left Denver, the Broncos were getting tired of annual playoff appearances going nowhere with Jake Plummer. So Shanahan used a first round pick on Jay Cutler with Plummer still on the roster. Plummer was then benched with a 7-4 record, grew a beard and retired from football that offseason. Oh, and the Broncos began to really suck from that point and once Shanahan was gone, they hired someone else who really accelerated the downward spiral.

So asking the Texans to jumpstart Phase One of the "Replace Schaub" operation isn't going to help the team win more games in 2013 or go any deeper in the playoffs in 2013. And I am specific to 2013 because this team's window to win a Super Bowl is RIGHT NOW.

They have the other key pieces in place. Short of getting lightning to strike like it did in 2012 with all these rookie QBs, only bringing in someone like very experienced like the Broncos did with Manning would seem to enhance the team's chances in 2013. And there isn't another Manning available this offseason (no, it's not Alex Smith).

I think the 49ers are incredibly lucky that their midseason QB switch has gone as well as it had. Usually a team with 2 QBs is said to be a team that doesn't have one at all. Bringing in Schaub's 2014 or 2015 replacement in 2013 will only divide the locker room and drive us all nuts. They'd have to do like what the Oilers did with Steve McNair and just flat out be committed to Schaub in 2013, keeping an early draft pick like that on the bench. Nobody does that anymore for good reason... it's expensive for one thing. Oh, and apparently there isn't a strong QB prospect in this draft anyway.

[WMH]

Playoff Schaub > Playoff Peyton



We could do alot worse.

Comp Att Pct Att/G Avg Yds/G TD Int 1st 1st% Lng 20+ Sck Rate
Manning 28 43 65.1 43 6.7 290 3 2 15 34.9 32 2 3 88.3
Schaub 63 89 70.8 44.5 6.8 302.5 2 2 32 36 28 8 1 87.5

[Joshua]

I can't believe I'm actually about to say this, but of all the guys who we could realistically go after this offseason (and I'm using realistically pretty liberally as the Texans clearly are going with Schaub and this is all just messageboard fodder), the guy I would be most curious about is Vick. Get him and Schaub back together and let them compete. Vick had absolutely no chance last year with the horrid O-line the Eagles threw out there and pretty much the whole team started mailing it in around mid-October. Plus, after watching RGIII in Washington, the thought of Vick running the bootlegs for us sounds pretty good. If nothing more than a change of pace from watching Schaub lumber around.

[barrett]

The time to cut ties was last year when Manning was available (and reports had him interested in coming). We have a far better roster, and believe it or not far better coaching.

Now we are in a spot where the best available veteran QBs are not an upgrade.

So that leaves the draft as a means of improvement, and I cannot see a coach whose job relies on going deep in the playoffs hitching his wagon to a rookie QB. Especially not in a year where nobody is excited about any of the QBs, let alone the ones available in the late 1st/middle rounds.

It will almost certainly be Schaub again for this year (and likely for as long as Kubiak is here). We would have been better off with a home loss to Cincy that MIGHT have prompted change.

[Arky]

I'm just looking at it like this: What if Schaub gets injured (out for the year) in Week 2 of 2013? Who's going to be the break-glass-in-case-of-emergency QB waiting on the other side of the glass? Who do you want that QB to be? I'm thinking if TJ is still here, it will be TJ. Just like the playoffs last year, a vet would probably be brought in to be his backup....

The only QB competition I think to realistically happen in 2013 is to find out who is Schaub's backup.....

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by Joshua

I can't believe I'm actually about to say this, but of all the guys who we could realistically go after this offseason (and I'm using realistically pretty liberally as the Texans clearly are going with Schaub and this is all just messageboard fodder), the guy I would be most curious about is Vick. Get him and Schaub back together and let them compete. Vick had absolutely no chance last year with the horrid O-line the Eagles threw out there and pretty much the whole team started mailing it in around mid-October. Plus, after watching RGIII in Washington, the thought of Vick running the bootlegs for us sounds pretty good. If nothing more than a change of pace from watching Schaub lumber around.

Vick is intriguing: he can throw the ball vertically and certainly has the mobility to put some real teeth in those bootlegs compared to Schaub's boots which are just kinda amusing because they represent such an empty threat.
But in spite of Schaub's interception, I don't think he played that badly Sunday and could have beat the Pats with last years team. Without Brisiel, Winston, and Dresseen in the lineup the Texans field a much less formidable rushing attack.

[Keith]

Vick's career completion percentage is 56.3%. Only once was he ever over 60% in a single season (2010). Only once has he ever played all 16 regular season games (2006). Baggage aside, it's intriguing, a la Randall Cunningham in 1998. But realistically, yeah it's message board fodder.

Originally Posted by Arky

I'm just looking at it like this: What if Schaub gets injured (out for the year) in Week 2 of 2013? Who's going to be the break-glass-in-case-of-emergency QB waiting on the other side of the glass? Who do you want that QB to be?

Well, few teams are really strong at backup QB. Can't say that T.J. Yates is a bad one... I do realize he did win a playoff game. I'm ok with him and Keenum dueling for the backup job again next summer. One of them might show some true improvement.

[barrett]

Vick also averages more fumbles per game than anyone in NFL history.

He has already said he is not a backup, so he is not coming here to share time with Schaub or to be in a QB rotation. So if you sign him it is to make him the unquestioned starter. I don't see that for a guy who plays 8 games a year (and plays those 8 games in a mediocre way).

The veteran replacements are not upgrades. Maybe we sign a Henne type to push, but even then the best you can hope for is that the guy never sees the field.

I think you either continue to be a divisional round team with Schaub, or you hit reset in the draft (or through a guy like Cousins). I doubt we have the guts to reset, especially after the whole team already came out behind Schaub to try to put the story to rest.

I think McNair is more interested in running a "quality" and respected organization than he is in winning superbowls. If we go 12-4 and win division titles with Schaub than I am betting everyone keeps their job and we get to beat the Bengals in round 1 again next year.

[popanot]

With Eagles hiring Chip Kelly, they might very well consider keeping Vick around. He seems to fit Kelly's system better than Foles. With that being said, the Eagles might even be looking at drafting someone like Geno Smith with their #1 now and putting Foles on the trading block. I'm sure there's a few teams that would be interested in Foles (KC, OAK, AZ, JAX, BUF, etc.). Wish the Texans would be one of them, but we know better.

[Warren]

Throwing another name out there -- what about Kevin Kolb, as a Matt Leinart-type project? The Cards are expected to dump him because he'll be owed a $2 million roster bonus in March and then $9 million in salary for the season.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Warren

Throwing another name out there -- what about Kevin Kolb, as a Matt Leinart-type project? The Cards are expected to dump him because he'll be owed a $2 million roster bonus in March and then $9 million in salary for the season.

I'd do it. Kolb has the mobility for our system and he's very accurate on short throws. Plus one of kubiaks unquestioned abilities is helping a QB feel more comfortable. He could be a game manager in this system and he's at least got the possibility of upside.

[popanot]

Would love to have Kolb in here to compete with Schaub. Only problem I see with a FA QB is, they would not be guaranteed to start here and would even be considered a long-shot to unseat Schaub due to the Kubiak factor. They'd have a much better chance of getting paid and starting for one of the teams I mentioned above who are desperate for a QB.

[cadams]

i don't think schaub is the guy to get the texans to the super bowl after this playoff run either, but what about kolb's time in arizona makes anyone think he would be a better option than schaub? is this just because he is from UofH and people are more familiar with him? i don't see kolb as any better than the third string qb for the jets, mccarron, and i don't hear anyone talking about trying to get him. there definitely has to be some homerism in the kolb talk. not saying that to offend anyone, but kolb has sucked ever since being given the starting spot in arizona.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by cadams

i don't think schaub is the guy to get the texans to the super bowl after this playoff run either, but what about kolb's time in arizona makes anyone think he would be a better option than schaub? is this just because he is from UofH and people are more familiar with him? i don't see kolb as any better than the third string qb for the jets, mccarron, and i don't hear anyone talking about trying to get him. there definitely has to be some homerism in the kolb talk. not saying that to offend anyone, but kolb has sucked ever since being given the starting spot in arizona.

Kolb was brought up as a leinhart type reclamation (broken confidence but once thought talented and could use a year as a backup to rebuild a career under a great QB tutor). I've seen nobody mention him as a replacement.

And he went 4-1 last year and Arizona was 0-11 the rest of the season. That along with being a former 2nd rounder is why he is thought of higher than McElroy (mccarron is alabama's QB).

[cadams]

Originally Posted by barrett

McElroy (mccarron is alabama's QB).

thanks for the correction. i was thinking that sounded a little off.

[Nconroe]

Ranking QB discussion
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/ey...es-eli-almost-

I think its a little off with Schaub at 23.

What do ya'll think?

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by Nconroe

Ranking QB discussion
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/ey...es-eli-almost-

I think its a little off with Schaub at 23.

What do ya'll think?

You could quibble with this some but I think everyone agrees that Schaub is essentially a mid-level QB and whether he's 23 or 17 in some random list is largely irrelevant. However, it is the offseason so we gotta talk about something.

To me, I think the biggest frustration with Schaub actually arises out of something he had nothing to do with. For the first 3-4 years of Schaub's time here, there were a handful of truly elite QBs, most of whom had been on top for a while (obviously Peyton and Brady, and to a lesser extent Brees and Rodgers). There was also the second tier guys (Big Ben, Eli, Rivers). For the most part, these guys were untouchable and the Texans never had a chance to get any of them. In other words, it sucked that we didn't have one of the great QBs in the league, but we never had a shot at any of them anyway and Schaub was about as good as anyone we realistically could have gotten.

However, in the last couple years, there has been an influx of new blood in some good, young QBs, several of whom the Texans clearly could have gotten if they wanted. This is where the frustration lies IMO. It was one thing to be resigned to the fact that we would never have Brady. It's another to see us stand pat with Schaub while teams like San Fran and Seattle find guys like Kaepernick and Wilson in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

[Nconroe]

So, just discussing, here are some 2012 stats at yahoo sports
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byposition?
pos=QB&conference=NFL&year=season_2012&sort=41&tim eframe=ToDate

Schaub seems to be in top 10 for most categories For 2012 in QB Rating, and percent completions, least sacks, least fumbles, least interceptions,

Ahead of Romo, Flaco, Eli, Rivers, Newton, and many more in several categories of statistics.

Name Team G QBRat Comp Att Pct Yds Y/G Y/A TD Int Rush Yds Y/G Avg TD Sack YdsL Fum FumL
Aaron Rodgers GNB 16 108.0 371 552 67.2 4295 268.4 7.8 39 8 54 259 16.2 4.8 2 51 293 5 4
Peyton Manning DEN 16 105.8 400 583 68.6 4659 291.2 8.0 37 11 23 6 0.4 0.3 0 21 137 2 2
Robert Griffin III WAS 15 102.4 258 393 65.6 3200 213.3 8.1 20 5 120 815 54.3 6.8 7 30 217 12 2
Russell Wilson SEA 16 100.0 252 393 64.1 3118 194.9 7.9 26 10 94 489 30.6 5.2 4 33 203 6 3
Matt Ryan ATL 16 99.1 422 615 68.6 4719 294.9 7.7 32 14 34 141 8.8 4.1 1 28 210 3 2
Tom Brady NWE 16 98.7 401 637 63.0 4827 301.7 7.6 34 8 23 32 2.0 1.4 4 27 182 2 0
Ben Roethlisberger PIT 13 97.0 284 449 63.3 3265 251.2 7.3 26 8 26 92 7.1 3.5 0 30 182 6 3
Drew Brees NOR 16 96.3 422 670 63.0 5177 323.6 7.7 43 19 15 5 0.3 0.3 1 26 190 5 1
Matt Schaub HOU 16 90.7 350 544 64.3 4008 250.5 7.4 22 12 21 -9 -0.6 -0.4 0 27 216 4 0
Tony Romo DAL 16 90.5 425 648 65.6 4903 306.4 7.6 28 19 30 49 3.1 1.6 1 36 263 6 3
Philip Rivers SDG 16 88.6 338 527 64.1 3606 225.4 6.8 26 15 27 40 2.5 1.5 0 49 311 15 7
Joe Flacco BAL 16 87.7 317 531 59.7 3817 238.6 7.2 22 10 32 22 1.4 0.7 3 35 227 8 4
Andy Dalton CIN 16 87.4 329 528 62.3 3669 229.3 6.9 27 16 47 120 7.5 2.6 4 46 229 4 4
Eli Manning NYG 16 87.2 321 536 59.9 3948 246.8 7.4 26 15 20 30 1.9 1.5 0 19 136 5 1
Cam Newton CAR 16 86.2 280 485 57.7 3869 241.8 8.0 19 12 127 741 46.3 5.8 8 36 244 10 3

[Nconroe]

Then for 2011, similar, but Schaub was 6th best QB rating, rather than 9th in 2012, Flaco was down in the mid-range

Name Team G QBRat Comp Att Pct Yds Y/G Y/A TD Int Rush Yds Y/G Avg TD Sack YdsL Fum FumL
Aaron Rodgers GNB 15 122.5 343 502 68.3 4643 309.5 9.2 45 6 60 257 17.1 4.3 3 36 219 4 0
Drew Brees NOR 16 110.6 468 657 71.2 5476 342.3 8.3 46 14 21 86 5.4 4.1 1 24 158 1 1
Tom Brady NWE 16 105.6 401 611 65.6 5235 327.2 8.6 39 12 43 109 6.8 2.5 3 32 173 6 2
Tony Romo DAL 16 102.5 346 522 66.3 4184 261.5 8.0 31 10 22 46 2.9 2.1 1 36 227 6 3
Matthew Stafford DET 16 97.2 421 663 63.5 5038 314.9 7.6 41 16 22 78 4.9 3.5 0 36 257 5 1
Matt Schaub HOU 10 96.8 178 292 61.0 2479 247.9 8.5 15 6 15 9 0.9 0.6 2 16 98 3 1
Eli Manning NYG 16 92.9 359 589 61.0 4933 308.3 8.4 29 16 35 15 0.9 0.4 1 28 199 8 4
Matt Ryan ATL 16 92.2 347 566 61.3 4177 261.1 7.4 29 12 37 84 5.3 2.3 2 26 173 5 3
Alex Smith SFO 16 90.7 273 445 61.3 3144 196.5 7.1 17 5 52 179 11.2 3.4 2 44 263 7 2
Ben Roethlisberger PIT 15 90.1 324 513 63.2 4077 271.8 7.9 21 14 31 70 4.7 2.3 0 40 269 8 5
Philip Rivers SDG 16 88.7 366 582 62.9 4624 289.0 7.9 27 20 26 36 2.3 1.4 1 30 198 9 5
Matt Moore MIA 13 87.1 210 347 60.5 2497 192.1 7.2 16 9 32 65 5.0 2.0 2 36 229 14 6
Jay Cutler CHI 10 85.7 182 314 58.0 2319 231.9 7.4 13 7 18 55 5.5 3.1 1 23 159 7 3
Michael Vick PHI 13 84.9 253 423 59.8 3303 254.1 7.8 18 14 76 589 45.3 7.8 1 23 126 10 4
Cam Newton CAR 16 84.5 310 517 60.0 4051 253.2 7.8 21 17 126 706 44.1 5.6 14 35 260 5 2
Matt Hasselbeck TEN 16 82.4 319 518 61.6 3571 223.2 6.9 18 14 20 52 3.3 2.6 0 19 153 4 1
Kevin Kolb ARI 9 81.1 146 253 57.7 1955 217.2 7.7 9 8 17 65 7.2 3.8 0 30 219 8 3
Joe Flacco BAL 16 80.9 312 542 57.6 3610 225.6 6.7 20 12 39 88 5.5 2.3 1 31 203 11 6

[Nconroe]

Then in 2011, Matt Schaub was 9th again, but had some other good stats, and QB rating was above Peyton Manning and Drew Brees.


Name Team G QBRat Comp Att Pct Yds Y/G Y/A TD Int Rush Yds Y/G Avg TD Sack YdsL Fum FumL
Tom Brady NWE 16 111.0 324 492 65.9 3900 243.8 7.9 36 4 31 30 1.9 1.0 1 25 175 3 1
Philip Rivers SDG 16 101.8 357 541 66.0 4710 294.4 8.7 30 13 29 52 3.3 1.8 0 38 227 7 4
Aaron Rodgers GNB 15 101.2 312 475 65.7 3922 261.5 8.3 28 11 64 356 23.7 5.6 4 31 193 4 1
Michael Vick PHI 12 100.2 233 372 62.6 3018 251.5 8.1 21 6 100 676 56.3 6.8 9 34 210 11 3
Ben Roethlisberger PIT 12 97.0 240 389 61.7 3200 266.7 8.2 17 5 34 176 14.7 5.2 2 32 220 7 3
Josh Freeman TAM 16 95.9 291 474 61.4 3451 215.7 7.3 25 6 68 364 22.8 5.4 0 28 195 7 3
Joe Flacco BAL 16 93.6 306 489 62.6 3622 226.4 7.4 25 10 43 84 5.3 2.0 1 40 294 9 4
Matt Cassel KAN 15 93.0 262 450 58.2 3116 207.7 6.9 27 7 33 125 8.3 3.8 0 26 182 3 1
Matt Schaub HOU 16 92.0 365 574 63.6 4370 273.1 7.6 24 12 22 28 1.8 1.3 0 32 226 9 3
Peyton Manning IND 16 91.9 450 679 66.3 4700 293.8 6.9 33 17 18 18 1.1 1.0 0 16 91 3 1
Matt Ryan ATL 16 91.0 357 571 62.5 3705 231.6 6.5 28 9 46 122 7.6 2.7 0 23 158 4 3
Drew Brees NOR 16 90.9 448 658 68.1 4620 288.8 7.0 33 22 18 -3 -0.2 -0.2 0 25 185 9 2
David Garrard JAC 14 90.8 236 366 64.5 2734 195.3 7.5 23 15 66 279 19.9 4.2 5 33 253 11 4
Jon Kitna DAL 10 88.9 209 318 65.7 2365 236.5 7.4 16 12 31 147 14.7 4.7 1 21 100 7 1
Kyle Orton DEN 13 87.5 293 498 58.8 3653 281.0 7.3 20 9 22 98 7.5 4.5 0 34 243 4 4
Jay Cutler CHI 15 86.3 261 432 60.4 3274 218.3 7.6 23 16 50 232 15.5 4.6 1 52 352 10 6
Eli Manning NYG 16 85.3 339 539 62.9 4002 250.1 7.4 31 25 32 70 4.4 2.2 0 16 117 7 5