Mario Trade Idea

[nunusguy]

“I want to give credit to the Houston Texans. That was probably the best defense I’ve seen all year."
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/ar...5-84ef2a287220
***************
That's the Ravens RB Ray Rice on how he rates the Texans D. And the Ravens played the Steelers twice this year and SanFran among other teams,
so high praise for our young defense from the All-Pro back to say the least.
My point here is that resigning Mario shouldn't be our top priority given other needs which are clearer greater than making a very good defense probably just marginally better while expending a big chunk of cap-space to do so. The process of prioritizing priorities is a key task for NFL GMs, so it will be interesting and very important to see how Rick Smith handles this situation ?

[Keith]

This league is defined by quarterbacks and pass rushers. Everything else is just the trimmings. Barwin had a great November, and Reed was terrific in the playoffs, but we'd be fools to let another great veteran pass rusher like Mario slip through our fingers.

I know I'm the missing link here since I haven't posted a cap page in 2 years, but the team's cap situation is what gives me pause on tagging Mario then trying to sign or trade him. I fear the team might have to cut someone to make room for him on the 2012 cap given Mario's f-tag figure would be tremendous. Best to re-sign him next month.

Btw, signing Mario and extending Foster are not mutually exclusive events. There is a priority though, and Mario is first. Foster's extension can really come anytime before any talk of holdouts come into play, which at a minimum shouldn't happen until OTAs.

[Joshua]

I think Mario was already on the books for around $15 million last year. Give him a well structured longterm deal and the Texans can probably bring down his cap number. While people can certainly debate whether he's worth this, from a pure cap standpoint, his percentage of the cap will likely go down under a new deal so I don't see him being a cap crusher. I think Myers was making around $3 million. While he was great this year, the Texans should have some leverage since Myers is a perfect fit for our system and wouldn't be a target for a lot of teams due to his smaller stature. He can probably be kept with a slight pay raise but won't require a huge bump. As for Arian, cut Leinart (2-3 million?), Jacoby (3 million more?), either re-do Rackers' contract or find a cheaper option (another million) and give it all to him.

Throw in some restructured deals and maybe one or 2 cuts that actually hurt, and I think they should be able to make it all happen.

[WMH]

Originally Posted by Keith

Btw, signing Mario and extending Foster are not mutually exclusive events. There is a priority though, and Mario is first. Foster's extension can really come anytime before any talk of holdouts come into play, which at a minimum shouldn't happen until OTAs.

I think this is key, and could likely be how it is played out. I would guess Foster will be tendered pretty quickly, and the staff will focus on more pressing items. He will likely be pissed, and an extension will be worked out during his holdout, but might have to play '12 under the tender, which would be a low cap hit for this season, with most of his guarrantee falling in '13 and after. IIRC, the cap is supposed to go up quite a bit in '13, which could help soften the blow.

[Nconroe]

I sure hope they don't piss off Adrian Foster. He has been a fantastic, smart , team player who really produces, maybe no. 1 back in the league.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Joshua

I think Mario was already on the books for around $15 million last year. Give him a well structured longterm deal and the Texans can probably bring down his cap number. While people can certainly debate whether he's worth this, from a pure cap standpoint, his percentage of the cap will likely go down under a new deal so I don't see him being a cap crusher.

While I agree with this AFTER Mario is signed, if Mario is still on an F-tag on New League Year's Day, he is a cap crusher. Take whatever his figure was in 2011 and multiply by 120%.

Originally Posted by Joshua

I think Myers was making around $3 million. While he was great this year, the Texans should have some leverage since Myers is a perfect fit for our system and wouldn't be a target for a lot of teams due to his smaller stature. He can probably be kept with a slight pay raise but won't require a huge bump. As for Arian, cut Leinart (2-3 million?), Jacoby (3 million more?), either re-do Rackers' contract or find a cheaper option (another million) and give it all to him.

A little more info in lieu of an updated cap page...
- Myers' cap figure in 2011 was $3.5M. His signing bonus 4 yrs ago was $3M. He has received a lot of credit recently for his level of play. Btw, I think Mike Brisiel is a UFA as well (if I'm not operating on old data here).
- Leinart has 1 yr left on his contract with a base salary of $1.75M.
- Jacoby is scheduled to have base salaries of $3M and $4M in 2012 and 2013, respectively. Fwiw, Walter is $3.5M. One of these two at a minimum is overpaid in 2012.
- Rackers is a free agent. He is an average kicker, and much of the potential FAs are about as average or worse. I think Josh Scobee may be a FA though, and he is probably worth targeting if so. Otherwise, maybe bring in a rookie to challenge Rackers in camp and let the best man win.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Nconroe

I sure hope they don't piss off Adrian Foster.

There had been random stories floated in the past re: Smith's ego. Here's hoping this is where the maturation of Rick Smith has occurred. He ought to be able to let his stellar decisions as GM in 2011 speak for themselves.

I would hope that if Rick is up front with him on what his offseason plan is then follows through on it, then there should be no hard feelings. Players just don't want to feel played off the field. Give them the straight story up front and act upon it. If Arian knows from Rick that his contract will be handled by say mini-camp, then hopefully Arian gives Rick the time and space to do his job, and Rick follows through in June with his best offer.

[NBT]

Originally Posted by chuck

All I know is I certainly am glad that Charley Casserly will have nothing to do with this.

Con-Cur! The most know nothing, do nothing I have ever seen, who would like us to believe he is an expert.

[NBT]

Originally Posted by Nconroe

I sure hope they don't piss off Adrian Foster. He has been a fantastic, smart , team player who really produces, maybe no. 1 back in the league.

Yeah, me too. Arian has been very patient so far, and McNair has promised to take care of him.

[popanot]

If the Texans come to the conclusion they want trade Mario and are having difficulty on getting a high pick, I'd ping Green Bay to see if they'd be willing to part with Randall Cobb and a #2. I personally think GB would jump on it considering how bad their D was and how their season ended. They're deep enough at WR to lose Cobb in order to strengthen that D.

[HPF Bob]

Originally Posted by popanot

If the Texans come to the conclusion they want trade Mario and are having difficulty on getting a high pick, I'd ping Green Bay to see if they'd be willing to part with Randall Cobb and a #2. I personally think GB would jump on it considering how bad their D was and how their season ended. They're deep enough at WR to lose Cobb in order to strengthen that D.

I wouldn't settle for that. Green Bay's second-round is going to be pick #62. That's way too low. Even if we got their first-rounder, that's pick #30, just three picks below our own. I'd want something in the top 15 at least.

[popanot]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

I wouldn't settle for that. Green Bay's second-round is going to be pick #62. That's way too low. Even if we got their first-rounder, that's pick #30, just three picks below our own. I'd want something in the top 15 at least.

I agree with you, and ideally, they can find a team willing to give up a high #1 (and more) for Mario. However, the premise of my post was 1) they absolutely want to get rid of Mario's cap figure, 2) they cannot find a trade partner willing to give up a high #1, and 3) they want to get SOMETHING of value for Mario rather than just letting him walk. In that scenario, I think GB would be a good match. I think Cobb fits nicely into that young, talented, stretch-the-field WR role and he's definitely a threat at PR/KR. Even though the extra #2 from GB is low, it's still gives us another pick to draft a player or move up some in the 1st or 2nd round. They can ask GB for more, obviously. But again, my post was a get-what-you-can-if-all-else-fails scenario.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by popanot

If the Texans come to the conclusion they want trade Mario and are having difficulty on getting a high pick, I'd ping Green Bay to see if they'd be willing to part with Randall Cobb and a #2. I personally think GB would jump on it considering how bad their D was and how their season ended. They're deep enough at WR to lose Cobb in order to strengthen that D.

The Pack definitely needs defensive help, but doesn't Mario want to be back with a 4-3 team playing DE ?

[HPF Bob]

Originally Posted by popanot

I agree with you, and ideally, they can find a team willing to give up a high #1 (and more) for Mario. However, the premise of my post was 1) they absolutely want to get rid of Mario's cap figure, 2) they cannot find a trade partner willing to give up a high #1, and 3) they want to get SOMETHING of value for Mario rather than just letting him walk. In that scenario, I think GB would be a good match. I think Cobb fits nicely into that young, talented, stretch-the-field WR role and he's definitely a threat at PR/KR. Even though the extra #2 from GB is low, it's still gives us another pick to draft a player or move up some in the 1st or 2nd round. They can ask GB for more, obviously. But again, my post was a get-what-you-can-if-all-else-fails scenario.

I now see your point but only if Mario is unwilling to sign a new deal or we don't have the cap room to maneuver. Otherwise, I want a lot more.

[itssharif]

I've seriously been thinking about this and I think we oughta just franchise and trade Mario while Philly franchises and trades DeSean Jackson. We'd get our #2 WR/PR that we'd want at a much lower cap cost as resigning DeSean Jackson probably would be around 10-12 mil whereas resigning Mario would be around 15-18 mil towards the cap. I dunno I just feel like everything is win win for everybody involved.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by itssharif

I've seriously been thinking about this and I think we oughta just franchise and trade Mario while Philly franchises and trades DeSean Jackson. We'd get our #2 WR/PR that we'd want at a much lower cap cost as resigning DeSean Jackson probably would be around 10-12 mil whereas resigning Mario would be around 15-18 mil towards the cap. I dunno I just feel like everything is win win for everybody involved.

So, we get rid of a homegrown top flight player at one of the most important positions on the field for a No. 2 receiver with an attitude problem? And we do this simply to save 3 or 4 million? Which could easily be backloaded for when the cap explodes in 2 years? And run the risk of alienating other guys in the lockerroom who think the front office don't take care of their own when the time comes (which has already been an issue under Rick Smith)? To me, that makes no sense. I could (somewhat) understand if you let Mario walk because you don't want to tie that much money up in one guy. However, to let him walk just to turn around and tie up most of the money in a 160 lb. decoy with a chip on his shoulder does not sound good to me.

Something else I've been thinking about Desean is whether he could be the same player here. For instance, some of his most explosive plays have been when Vick hit him on a rope, in stride, waaaaaayyyy down field. That will not happen here. Schaub simply doesn't have the arm for it. In Philly, you had to be on top of Desean for at least 50-60 yards from the line of scrimmage. Here, you'd only have to cover him for about 40 or so yards. Not sure how much difference this makes, but I don't think it makes no difference.

[popanot]

Originally Posted by Joshua

So, we get rid of a homegrown top flight player at one of the most important positions on the field for a No. 2 receiver with an attitude problem? And we do this simply to save 3 or 4 million? Which could easily be backloaded for when the cap explodes in 2 years? And run the risk of alienating other guys in the locker room who think the front office don't take care of their own when the time comes (which has already been an issue under Rick Smith)? To me, that makes no sense. I could (somewhat) understand if you let Mario walk because you don't want to tie that much money up in one guy. However, to let him walk just to turn around and tie up most of the money in a 160 lb. decoy with a chip on his shoulder does not sound good to me.

Not sure I get this logic... It's OK to let him walk and basically send the message to the locker room that you don't want to pay the guy and will just let him go for nothing, but it's sending the wrong message by signing him and trading him for someone of value who could help improve the team?

Looking back, the only nasty contract haggle I can recall that Rick Smith had was with DRob, and much of that was DRob's fault (and I don't think anyone had a problem with letting him walk at that point). So historically, Smith has shown he'll take care of his players based on his dealings with Demeco and Daniels (and as I recall, they both were coming off injuries). I don't think it will cause a locker room rift if they sign and trade Mario. Whether it's the right move or wrong move, it's still smart business to get something for him if you don't plan on paying him all that money and the players have to understand that (you hope).

Let me give you this scenario... What if they trade Mario's ~$18M salary for Jackson's $~10M salary and used the 'savings' to take care of Foster, Meyers, Brisel and Dressen, and in addition, not have to cut Demeco or Walter or cut some "aging veteran's" salary? I doubt the locker room would have a problem with it if that happened.

As for Jackson, I highly doubt he'd be just a decoy. Not mention his amazing PR skills, I'm fairly certain he'd get his receptions and would definitely make AJ and Schaub's job easier. As for his pouting, yeah I didn't like that either (and the Eagles are my 2nd fav team having grown up in that area), but up until that point, he's been a model player and citizen who has done a lot in the Philly community. Not that it necessarily justifies the way he acted, but I think he got some really bad advice from his agent (the holdout) and was deeply hurt when the Eagles started signing all those FA's and didn't want to talk to him about an extension. Yes, he handled it poorly (at 26 years old), but I don't think he's a prima donna by any stretch. Hell, I don't know... I do know his talent would be huge for this team, though.

[barrett]

If you can take care of foster, myers, brisel, and dreesen for $8 million, then you are a cap wizard and you have no need to get rid of Mario.

As for your scenario, it is great fun to imagine all the riches we can get for Mario. I am sure when the team makes a decision they will know whether he can be flipped for multiple 1st round picks or desean Jackson. And I am sure that will all be a consideration in the process.

[popanot]

And let me just add, I don't have a problem with them keeping Mario as long as they can do a new contract that is good for both him and the team. If they sign him to the F-Tag $, well then I guess we'll just have to live with it. What I don't want to have happen is just letting him walk and getting nothing in return. I mean, this isn't Carr or DRob where you don't care if they walk. Of course, a lot of this depends on Mario and him being receptive to a sign and trade deal.

[HPF Bob]

The temptation in getting DeSean Jackson is that he's a home run threat everytime he's on the field and how are opponents going to cover him while also covering Andre Johnson and Owen Daniels and Arian Foster? How do you keep that under wraps?

Is it worth sending Mario away? That's up to the front office to decide.