Who In the Hell is Next Man Up Now?

[WMH]

Are you freaking kidding me?.....

Two QB's in two games. Where the hell does this happen?
I tried all week to convince myself that we will be good shape with Leinart. He's been on the big stage before, and was successful with pieces around him. If he came in and didn't do anything stupid, we will be fine. Scoured the net searching for reasoning to back up that thought process, and found plenty of it.

And the dude lasts less than 2 quarters? WTF?

Can TJ Yates "manage" the game? Who knows. Maybe we will still be "OK". But dammit, I didn't want to just be "OK". For 10 years, I have been patient. For 10 years I have continuously renewed my tickets hoping for the chance at a season like this. Now we hitching our wagon to a 5th round rookie......

We aren't calling Hatiesburg, according to PFT via Peter King.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...company-favre/

Are we really going to bring in a Jeff Garcia or Brodie Croyle to come in?
In my eyes, we are screwed. I honestly don't think we will be favored to win any of our remaining games, with the exception of Indy.

Can we really think we will win two of our last 5 games? I'm not seeing the 2nd one. Indy, sure, don't think we will beat ATL next week, really don't think we'll beat Cincy. Not sure we can beat Carolina. Not sure we can beat TN......UGH.

CRAP!

[barrett]

Aside from Atlanta we don't play an above average Offense the rest of the way. Check out Denver. Everyone acts like Tebow is a miracle worker, but the defense is giving up like 10 points per game. And they win with a garbage offense.

I think We can still win with our defense playing like it is against the schedule we play. I would be shocked if Yates/clemens/Garcia/Warner? can't win at least 3 games. We will obviously have to get creative about making teams pay for stacking the box, but I think our defense is that good. Not to mention we were fine in the first half with Leinhart getting 4.4 ypa. We just need the week to prepare and gameplan what yates does well (and I gaurantee we will get a deep shot or two from him instead of 9 checkdowns).

I am still confident somebody will be killing us in the wild card round of the playoffs.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by barrett

I am still confident somebody will be killing us in the wild card round of the playoffs.

After whats happened to this team, if we still win the division and then just make it to the playoffs and get beat in the first game, the season will have been a roaring success IMO.

[HPF Bob]

I once watched the Texas Longhorns lose both their starting quarterback and his backup with season-ending injuries during the first half of a game against Oklahoma. The third-string QB led them to victory and didn't lose a game for the rest of the regular season. Of course, it helped that Earl Campbell took his handoffs but our running backs aren't too shabby either.

The key to whether we can win with Yates will come down to two unknowns - whether he can complete enough passes to keep defenses from putting eight in the box and whether he learns enough of the plays to keep from being predictable in play-calling.

No idea how competent Clemens is in our offense but he was in Shanahan's training camp and hopefully learned enough to be successful if needed. I don't think Garcia or Croyle could be any better. If I were Smith, I'd look up every one who's been a QB in our camps the past few years to see if they might be available. Could we borrow Cliff Kingsbury? What's Jared Zabransky doing these days?

[WMH]

@SI_PeterKing: RT @Wade_Harrison: Houston radio reporting Fins will release Sage Rosenfels after he passes physical and Texans will pursue. Any truth? ... True.

If he's healthy, Sage might be our best option to have a legitimate chance to win ball games, and at least make the playoffs.

[barrett]

That might pull me back from the edge. Of course if he makes us good enough to almost win a playoff game only to rosencopter it away in the end, it might push me over the edge.

[WMH]

Originally Posted by barrett

That might pull me back from the edge. Of course if he makes us good enough to almost win a playoff game only to rosencopter it away in the end, it might push me over the edge.

I'm with ya. I did some googling, and even though he's a vested vet, he would still be subject to waivers, since its past the trade deadline. An team could put in a claim to him that is higher than us in priority.

Wouldn't that be a Bud Adams move? Sage would be cheap, relatively speaking, and he could block the move just to stick it to us one more time.

[Roy P]

Does anybody know where J.D. Booty is these days?

[chuck]

It's funny, barrett is standing on the precipice of the abyss glumly contemplating infinite darkness while I am radiant with a zen-like calm.

How often does that happen?

[barrett]

It's not much fun chuck. But I'm like you, I'm looking for superbowls, not moral victories from playoff berths. And I see how good this team could be healthy, and it kills me we are missing this chance. How long will Andre be Andre? How many guys will we lose to FA?

[chuck]

No, I know. It has been very, very frustrating for me to watch this team underachieve for years due largely in my view to incompetent leadership. Suddenly the team is as talented as any other, (far) more talented than most, and the leadership's incompetence has cooled from white-hot to a cheerful amber. And then true disaster strikes. Twice. (Five times, really, but who's counting?)

But now, rather than watch an organization underachieve we're hoping that certain players find a way to overachieve. And who the hell knows, maybe they will. Maybe the team collectively will overachieve. It seems very unlikely that the Texans can win a playoff game with a fifth round rookie playing quarterback, but who knows, maybe TJ is one of those increasingly rare guys who can actually play the position in the NFL.

But I am worlds calmer watching a good team try to overachieve in a challenging situation than I ever was watching a slapdick team slapdick around for sixty minutes a week. TJ has six weeks to figure out how to quarterback in the NFL. Is that enough? Of course not. But I saw some encouraging fearlessness in that two-minute drive so I am certainly holding out hope.

[popanot]

Let's all catch our breath for moment...... Whew, that was nice... I for one am not ready to sing gloom and doom or throw in the towel. Actually, I felt all along Yates was the better option and would eventually take over the starting role - even with a healthy Leinart - once he had time to work in some first-team practice reps and the coaches had time to see check-down Charley, er Leinart, in action.

I firmly believe Yates knows the playbook by now and can run this offense. It's just a matter of can he read what the defense is doing and be able to adjust accordingly relative to the speed of the game. I had the same questions about Leinart and nothing has convinced me since he's been here that he'd do any better than Yates. At least Yates gives us someone with a decent arm and that can move out of the pocket and scramble if need be. He also removes any that left-handed BS where they have to flip-flop their roll-outs and blocking schemes, etc. Honestly, I'm hoping he can inject some enthusiasm after the downer of losing Schuab and play a similar game to what Ponder has done in Minnesota since taking over for McNabb, only, the Texans having a much better supporting cast (and I like to believe a better coaching staff).

I'm hoping for these first couple of games Yates can cram in what he needs and Kubiak can device a game plan that provides him some security outlets, in addition to our D and ST helping out with some timely stops and good field position. After these first couple games, as long as he comes out healthy (knock on wood), I think he'll be OK as along as he doesn't try to be a hero. And I like our chances in the playoffs if the Texans can hold on and manage a bye or a home game. A rookie having some success in the playoffs is not unheard of.

As for Rosenfels, I'd definitely like us to get him. I think he's a much better option than Clemens as a backup or potential starter if Yates falters. But again, he hasn't had any quality playing time in 2 years and he hasn't practiced at all or he's been fairly limited this year. Is he really a better starting option than Yates at this point? Sorry, I just can't get excited about Favre. That last year in Minny convinced me he was done and no longer had the game to be successful. He was a sack and INT machine - even worse than what he was already.

[Arky]

Lots of Rosenfels talk going around...

Whoever they go with (Rosenfels/Yates/?????), the coaching staff has got 5 games to get him up to speed. I'd rather go Yates, myself. Sanchez and Roethlisberger were a couple of rookie QB's who did well in the playoffs. So, as popanot mentions, it's not unheard of.

I'm just not buying into the no playoffs/one and done talk at this point. The season can still be salvaged. I liked what I saw of Yates yesterday before Kubes nerfed him in the 2nd half. I think he's got the tools. The big equalizer here is our defense. Didya know, the defense only allowed 2 FG's yesterday?.... If they can keep that type of production up, we are going to be in a lot of games...

Atlanta currently 2 pt favorite vs the Texans....

[cadams]

for everyone who says that they don't think the texans will be able to win another game other than the one against indy, my response is REALLY? WTF?

do you think the defense is all of the sudden going to start sucking? carolina is fiesty, but they have a terrible run defense, and only beat indy by a touchdown. the titans scored all of 7 points (at home) against the texans last month. as long as yates doesnt turn the ball over the texans should win at least 3 of their last five. now, the odds are the yates won't come in a lead them to a super bowl, a first round bye, and maybe not even a playoff win, but he didn't look terrible yesterday, and that was basically without ever taking any meaningful practice snaps all year.

now maybe they do crash and burn, and they most likely won't make any noise in the playoffs, but the texans have a good defesne and good special teams. a great set of running backs, and talented skill position players, so to say that they are all of the sudden going to be one of the worst teams in the league is just no realistic. how about we all wait until sunday to see how the kid plays before we decide the season is lost. he doesn't need to be great, just competent . . .

in understand the frustration everyone has, because i have it as well. a lot of my time and money has gone into this team as well, but if i had told you at the beginning of the season that andre was going to miss 6 games, mario was going to be on IR before the halfway point of the season, and schaub, aj and foster would be on the field together for a total of one quarter all year long i am guessing everyone would have said they would make it to 8 wins tops. this team is playing different than it has in the past. there is definitely no cause to think we have the next tom brady on the team in yates, but given what they have already overcome, i think we should at least give them a game or two with yates before calling them garbage (which is what you are saying if you think they only win 1 of the next five games)

[HPF Bob]

I think they need to stick with Yates until it's clear he can't cut it or gets injured. He's the best option we have at the moment and anyone else we get is going to be rusty and unfamiliar to the rest of the team, even Chopper.

We have a running game and we have a defense. We even got some great kick returns yesterday and a clutch kick from Rackers. There's 50 other players who need to suck it up and reach a higher level to give Yates the time to work his way into this.

Tom Brady was once a fifth-round rookie. So was Terrell Davis. Arian Foster was once a UDFA. They took advantage of the opportunities when they presented itself and Yates could too. He's got a talented cast around him and a defense that can make a lead hold up. Let's give Yates time to get up to speed and know the season is not lost.

Of course, I've been watching Tim Tebow the past four weeks and they manage to get it done with a lot poorer personnel than the Texans have. Our schedule isn't that tough the rest of the way and we have a two-game lead in the division. We've got a cushion heading to the finish line which may be just enough time to get Yates up to speed for the playoffs.

[WMH]

Do I think we will win another game besides Indy, I can't honestly say yes, despite the resurgence of our D. IMO, we've just become.......The Jacksonville Jaguars. Ok, maybe its not that bad since we actually have Dre, but its not too far from the truth. How did we run the ball in the 2nd half yesterday, or even the 1st half? This was against a team that was missing 5 starters from a 3-8 team. FIVE. Expect to see much of the same for the next 5 weeks, and we won't see another O this year, that is inept as Jax. Last part is a HUGE factor.

Another factor to consider is Time of Possession. If the O can't sustain drives, and the D is constantly on the field, how long can we really expect that to last? We have improved beyond what words I could type, and WAY beyond what I had hoped they would become, but if they are on the field for 40 minutes a game, we "could" be in big trouble.

Yates wasn't that great in college to begin with. Seen him play a couple of times, and wasn't real impressed. 5th rd. was a reach for him, but it gave Kubiak a late round toy to play with.

IMO, we are at the point where we are going to have to win 13-10, 17-13 games. I seriously doubt our O will be able to put up 24+ pts. Can we do that, sure. Guaranteed, not a chance.

Wish I was more optimistic, but I think we are screwed.

Beating Indy alone may get us the division crown, but that is about it.

[cadams]

jax always plays the texans well. always has. also, as i said, let's see how they do this weekend before deciding thier fate. maybe they are terrible with yates, but i think you are a bit quick to discount jax's defense. they were tackling well yesterday, and they have beaten both tenn and Baltimore this year. no doubt they are a terrible team, but those games show that they can get up for a game from time to time.

LZ was talking about the running issues this morning, and he said he went back and looked and jax wasn't doing anything unusual on defense (stacking the box, etc), the jax defensive line was just beating the o-line on most plays. which hasn't happened much this year. i think it is more likely that the running game will be 90% of what it was with schaub than like it was yesterday going forward.

like i said, i don't think they will be a big player in the playoffs, but you seem to be discounting the fact that the defense is going to keep the offense in games over the last part of the season, and i think saying they will most likley lose 3 of the next 4 is a bit pessimistic, though i completely understand why you would be.

[painekiller]

Not sure who it was on here that was calling Leinart the check down king, but they appeared to have called that correctly. Leinart was dumping the ball off on all but one play and AJ pushed off on that one and we went backwards.

Well once Yates came into the game, he was throwing downfield into coverage. He looked good until Kubiak pulled the plug on him due to no backup QB.(Owen Daniels was the emergency guy on Sunday).

Here is Michael Lombardi writing about what I was seeing on the field from NFL.Com

Can things get any worse for the Houston Texans? First they lose Mario Williams, their best defensive player, for the season. That was followed by their All-Pro wide receiver, Andre Johnson, missing six games with a hamstring injury. Starting quarterback Matt Schaub went on the shelf after Week 10 with a season-ending foot injury and after last weekend's bye, backup QB Matt Leinart comes in Sunday and promptly goes down with a reported broken collarbone.

But don't cry for the Texans just yet. After all, they still beat the Jaguars to improve to 8-3. Losing Leinart is not hard to overcome, especially in this offense, and they even might be better off without him.

Watching Leinart play in the first half, it was clear "the King of the Check Down" was back to his old ways. Leinart refuses to drive the ball down the field, always taking the quick outlet instead of standing tall in the pocket to the last second and making the tough throw. He is nervous in the pocket and treats the ball like a hot potato, wanting to get rid of it as soon as he can. He loves completion percentage more than yards, which might look good on a stat sheet, but never helps a team win. I don't care what the Texans said he looked like in practice last week. In practice, it is easier to throw the ball down the field, largely because there is no risk at being hit. Once hitting the quarterback is a part of the game, then the King is going to revert back to his check downs.

In two quarters against the Jags, Leinart was 10 of 13 for 57 yards. He averaged 4.3 yards in his 13 attempts, which is the same as what the Houston running game normally averages per carry. Take away the 20-yard touchdown throw, which hung in the air for days, and Leinart was 9 of 12 for 37 yards, which is slightly better than three yards per attempt. If Leinart was going to do nothing more than throw the check down, then how can this injury be deemed so costly?

When rookie T.J. Yates came into the game, my first reaction was -- now that is a NFL passer. Yates came off the bench with little or no practice time and led the team down the field for a field goal to close out the half. The game did not look too big for Yates, nor did he look nervous under center. He looked like a player with excellent talent who, after a week of getting all the coaching, could execute the game plan as well, if not better, than Leinart. Yates might not have as much experience as Leinart, but was Leinart's experience really going to help him or the Texans? I strongly doubt it.

The Texans are in a bad spot, don't get me wrong, but it's the same one they were in when Schaub first went down -- they must win with their defense, their run game and their special teams. Losing Leinart does not change things; in fact, it makes things clearer. With Leinart in the game, there would be a belief that he could handle certain things because he was a high pick and has started NFL games. In reality, as was the case Sunday, Leinart cannot handle or properly execute the whole Texans offense. Leinart would have provided false hope, which is not what the Texans need right now.

In head coach Gary Kubiak's QB-friendly offense, Yates will not be asked to carry the load, but just make a few throws down the field. Having been a four-year starter in college at North Carolina, in a pro-style system, Yates can handle the volume of offense each week and will not be overwhelmed. The burden of scoring will fall on the run game and the play-making ability of Andre Johnson, who will benefit more with Yates in the game. Trust me, today the Texans are no different offensively than they were last Monday. I'd argue they are better off.

It's a tough break for Leinart to get injured as he was trying to rebuild his career, and I do feel badly for him. Maybe he was going to prove my evaluation of him wrong by driving the ball down the field, standing tall in the pocket and making all the tough throws. Maybe he did change his style of play and he was just getting warmed up in the Jaguars game. But with this injury, we will never know.

Now Yates will be the man responsible to lead the Texans to their first playoff appearance. But as it was before the injury to Leinart, the Texans' playoff fortunes will continue to lie with their ability to run the ball and make plays with their defense. And I believe they can get it done. So today is not a day for Texans fans to cry; it is a day to just keep moving forward because good things still can happen.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by cadams

.......

LZ was talking about the running issues this morning, and he said he went back and looked and jax wasn't doing anything unusual on defense (stacking the box, etc), the jax defensive line was just beating the o-line on most plays. which hasn't happened much this year. i think it is more likely that the running game will be 90% of what it was with schaub than like it was yesterday going forward.

.......

Yep, terrible game yesterday from the o-line. Methinks they are reading their press clippings. I also thought they should've used Tate more and his more agressive north/south style of running rather than Arian's wait-for-daylight style... Arian had 10 carries for 3(!) yards in the 2nd half. You've got to tip your hat to the Jags defense for a job well done. Their defense currently ranks 14th against the run and 4th overall (yds/game).

Guarantee the o-line is well aware they sucked yesterday. They have shown to rebound pretty well after a stinker but it doesn't get any easier in the next two games. Atlanta (2nd) and Cincinnati (5th) are both very good against the run. The good news is that Carolina (28th), Indy (31st) and Tennessee (23rd) are a lot more vulnerable to the run which should keep the Texan offense from getting stonewalled.

Gonna have to make some intermediate and deep throws against Atlanta and Cincinnati to keep them honest.... Once the backup and 3rd string QB positions get sorted, I think Kube won't be so reluctant to let it fly a bit....

[barrett]

I was the one who had predicted doom for leinhart as a checkdown guy. This is not a caretakers offense and schaub was not game managing. With AJ out half the year he still had like 6 TDs of 50+ yards. We were a very scary passing team as proven by the fact that teams still didn't bring an extra guy up weeks 7-10 with AJ gone. NFL defenses fear the big play more than anything and schaub gave it to us, making our run game and OL look better.

Yates may be able to give us a downfield threat, but if he doesn't we are screwed. Leinhart certainly didn't. I'd like rosenfels most because he has proven he can move a less talented version of this team up and down the field. And I think we're good enough to overcome his turnovers (which Yates likely beings to the table as well). But don't overestimate how much of our offense Yates knows. He has not dressed yet and spends his week running the opponents stuff on the scout team. It is not promising right now in terms of playing past the first round.