New Texans (FA/Trade)

[Keith]

Originally Posted by barrett

Let me put it this way, when is the last time a non-playoff team successfully used FA as a significant part of building a roster?

You're limiting this to non-playoff teams, as the Texans failed to make the playoffs with minutes remaining in the 4th quarter of the final regular season game last year, ok. And I'm sure your definition of 'success' will get far more restrictive after reading this post. So how about I limit it further to players other non-playoff teams have acquired from just the Texans in recent years to significantly build a roster?

Here's three off the top of my head: Mario Williams (Bills), Glover Quin (Lions), Connor Barwin (Eagles).

[popanot]

Originally Posted by barrett

The kind of smart bargain shopping you guys are talking about happens after the FA push is done and veterans spend a few weeks with no contract and no bidder.

You're talking as if we want them to rush out and sign Shorts to some lucrative, cap-strapping deal. That's not the case at all, and I think it's pretty clear we both said only if he's cheap. If not him, then someone. I just don't think it's wise to go into the season hoping to get an answer on the QB situation (hopefully, Mallett) with KMart/DJ/Bonner as a starter. We already know they're below average. And that doesn't even factor in the unknown we have at the other outside WR position. Totally agree they should draft a WR somewhere along the line, though. Maybe two.

[popanot]

Here are a few more guys I'd look at or inquire about for the slot: Chris Givens, Quinton Patton, Denarius Moore (FA). They'd currently have to give up a pick for either Givens or Patton, but it wouldn't bother me at all giving up that condition pick from the Jets for one of those guys. Vincent Brown might be worth a look on an extremely cheap 1-yr prove it deal.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Arky

Off the top of my head, Anthony Smith and Daniel Manning (the first go-round) were upgrades.



Why limit it to non-playoff teams? Your question makes it sound like FA is not worth participating in. It's an opportunity to bolster your roster. On paper, don't the Colts look really smart for picking up AJ and Gore?

Like I said, it is a chance to finish your roster. I am betting that the AJ and Gore deals hurt far more than they help in 2017, since there is little chance either is on the roster but their dead money will be. So Indy is betting that they can win this year with those veterans. I mention non-playoff teams because in FA some players will take marginally less to sign with a contender. The Patriots are enough of a destination that they signed veterans last year without sacrificing any cap space. Of course they did that with big one year deals (Revis, Browner) that were only possible because they haven't signed too many dumb FAs in the past (Amendola is the only one I can think of to get long term money in FA from them).

We are not a contender and we are not a player or two away. Thus any deal that adds a half a win this year at the expense of a quarter of a win in 2016 and beyond is a bad deal.

As for signing cheap vets and unearthing hidden talents, the opportunity for that comes in a few weeks when guys have no jobs and sign short term deals with low guarantees. Right now all these guys are still waiting to get overpaid. Honestly we got more out of camp cuts and waiver wire guys last year than we did FA. I am glad we are mostly staying out of the FA market to this point.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by popanot

You're talking as if we want them to rush out and sign Shorts to some lucrative, cap-strapping deal. That's not the case at all, and I think it's pretty clear we both said only if he's cheap. If not him, then someone. I just don't think it's wise to go into the season hoping to get an answer on the QB situation (hopefully, Mallett) with KMart/DJ/Bonner as a starter. We already know they're below average. And that doesn't even factor in the unknown we have at the other outside WR position. Totally agree they should draft a WR somewhere along the line, though. Maybe two.

Draft a guy. Sign a guy in a few weeks when there is no bidding or competition. Draft another guy. Let what we have fight it out in camp. But Cecil Shorts on a 1st week of FA deal is not something I want any part of.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

I'd be okay with investing a second on McKinney or Perryman as ILBs if either is available.

Perryman is too small/slow for my tastes. I have McKinney as a possible 3rd round pick because of better players over him, but due to the Need of the Texans and the lack of Supply in this draft, I wouldn't blame them for taking him with their second round pick. The best "Value" in the draft at that position would be Ben Heeney of Kansas. Assuming he lasts until the 5th round.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by barrett

But Cecil Shorts on a 1st week of FA deal is not something I want any part of.

I doubt anyone is arguing with you on this, as well as your point that UFA is a fools' crapshoot.

And aside from the Jets (who are a probable cluster***k thanks in part I'm sure to hiring a former Texans front office exec), 31 other teams agree with you that Shorts is not a 1st week of FA-type player either. I'll agree with that too... I just think that he tops the list of FA options for upgrading that slot position.

I'm all for drafting a WR, particularly a slot WR, with a non-1st round pick/likely middle round pick in the draft, a similar spot from which Shorts was taken four years ago. But that wouldn't preclude a team like the Texans from signing a vet. Mallett needs an upgrade from the undrafted 4th year player in Damaris Johnson who didn't really seem all that much better than Keyshawn Martin. Surprised the team gave Damaris what they did.


BTW - I have done little to none in terms of moderating these offseason threads. If y'all are cool with keeping this catch-all thread, then we'll just keep adding to it.

[WMH]

@RapSheet 7m7 minutes ago
When the #Dolphins traded for Kenny Stills, WR Mike Wallace went on the trading blocks. They’ve explored this option before, doing it now.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by barrett

Like I said, it is a chance to finish your roster. I am betting that the AJ and Gore deals hurt far more than they help in 2017, since there is little chance either is on the roster but their dead money will be. So Indy is betting that they can win this year with those veterans. I mention non-playoff teams because in FA some players will take marginally less to sign with a contender. The Patriots are enough of a destination that they signed veterans last year without sacrificing any cap space. Of course they did that with big one year deals (Revis, Browner) that were only possible because they haven't signed too many dumb FAs in the past (Amendola is the only one I can think of to get long term money in FA from them).

We are not a contender and we are not a player or two away. Thus any deal that adds a half a win this year at the expense of a quarter of a win in 2016 and beyond is a bad deal.

As for signing cheap vets and unearthing hidden talents, the opportunity for that comes in a few weeks when guys have no jobs and sign short term deals with low guarantees. Right now all these guys are still waiting to get overpaid. Honestly we got more out of camp cuts and waiver wire guys last year than we did FA.

Well, good. Glad we'll only have to put up with AJ and Gore on the Colts for two years....

As far as the Texans not being a contender this year, they came awfully close to playoffs last year. I expect them to do better this year. Maybe a quality QB could have made the difference last year and a quality QB would be one person. If the Mallet-in-the-Cleveland-game shows up for 75% of the games, I do believe we will contend....

Obviously, little quality at QB in FA this year - we picked up Hoyer - we'll see how that goes.

I am glad we are mostly staying out of the FA market to this point.

Hoyer and Rahim Moore, am I missing anybody? Moore is a nice add, IMO....

[Keith]

Well, the Vikings just picked up Mike Wallace in a trade as minutes earlier Jason LaCanfora reported from Cordarelle Patterson's agent that his client isn't being shopped in a trade.

Maybe where there's smoke... because if the Texans were interested before, perhaps Patterson suddenly just became a bit more available...

[popanot]

Man, this one crazy offseason with all the trades. Love it!!

[Warren]

The WRs under contract:

DeAndre Hopkins: Emerging star who'll get to chance to show he's the true #1.
Damaris Johnson: Entering the last year of his contract. Filled a hole last year.
Keshawn Martin: Entering the last year of his contract. Meh.
DeVier Posey: Entering the last year of his contract. I still like him but he suited up for one more game than I did last year so it's tough to get too excited.
Alan Bonner: On IR last year, which surprised me because I thought he was one of the former draft choices cut last summer.
Jace Davis: Former Raven practice squadder; longshot to make the team.
Travis Labhart: Former practice squadder; longshot to make the team.
EZ Nwachukwu: Former practice squadder; longshot to make the team.

I'd say WR is a position of need.

[HPF Bob]

Originally Posted by popanot

Apparently the Texans have their sights set higher... At least ceiling/potential wise. Inquired Vikes about Patterson.

http://hou.scout.com/story/1526785-t...atterson?s=116

Oh, PATTERSON.... Flash reading I thought the Texans inquired the Vikes about PETERSON.

This makes more sense - especially if he'll return kicks. What would the ViQueens want in return? Our first-rounder and...?

[HPF Bob]

FWIW, there was number-crunching site that claimed Cecil Shorts was the NFL's worst receiver last year in terms of value-per-target. Oh, the second worst was Andre Johnson.

[Roy P]

I will admit that I wanted to draft Corderelle Patterson when he came out of Tennessee. He looked to have the size and speed of a true #1 WR. With this year's 1st round pick I am wishing Amari Cooper, Kevin White, or Devante Parker; but they could be off the board by the time we select leaving the option of Jaelen Strong. So, if Minnesota wants a 1st for Patterson, I might have to consider it. Perhaps it could be a draft day trade and we can see who's available. Regardless, I still would like to draft Phillip Dorsett or Tyler Lockett in the 3rd.

[Nconroe]

Patterson lost his starting role last year , apparently he couldn't run a route over 5 yds. Had not that many catches or yards. Coach says not in doghouse. Hmm.

not sure that says worth no 1 pick.

[Roy P]

Patterson had 33 catches last year. ..that's close to the 40 O'Brien's Offense was offering to Andre Johnson next season.

[Nconroe]

Just checking Texans cap space on sportrac, with 10 mil dead money and 5 mil reserved for draft picks, appears to leave 5 mil in cap space as roster sits right now.

And really ought to hold 3 mil back for injuries during the season, so only 2 mil for spending at the moment.

So if pick up Wolfork that would about wipe out flexibility after that. Perhaps, maybe.

Or if trade for Patterson also uses up cap space.

I think I'd go with philosophy of wait a while in FA period. Plenty time. Don't go into cap space hindered right now.

[popanot]

No way I'd give up a #1 for CPat. #2 maybe, but I'd shoot for a #3. The Vikes would probably want more, but that's what I'd shoot for. Maybe kick in a conditional 2016 pick.

[chuck]

Roy P is suddenly going full Casserly on us. Hey, Roy, let's throw in a second, you know, sweeten the pot a little.