Owen Daniels Contract Negotiations

[papabear]

Originally Posted by Keith

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/...tract-chicken/

Saw that...my question is, knowing this why wouldn't OD sign the offer before that date? Does he lose the ability to negotiate a long term deal once he signs the tender? I just don't see any reason why he wouldn't sign it knowing it could cost him 2+ million. I don't know if the Texans would take advantage of the option to reduce the tender, but there's no business reason not to other than hurting OD's feelings. I'm sure Owen recognizes, or at least hope he does, the business aspects of it.

[Nconroe]

I hope they work it out to satisfaction of both sides. no holdouts please. Does seem OD has earned a raise to atleast get into top 15 if not top 10 TE salaries sometime soon.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by papabear

Saw that...my question is, knowing this why wouldn't OD sign the offer before that date? Does he lose the ability to negotiate a long term deal once he signs the tender? I just don't see any reason why he wouldn't sign it knowing it could cost him 2+ million. I don't know if the Texans would take advantage of the option to reduce the tender, but there's no business reason not to other than hurting OD's feelings. I'm sure Owen recognizes, or at least hope he does, the business aspects of it.

I'm guessing he recognizes it. I'm going to also guess that there's some amount of good faith negotiating going on behind the scences (gaspshock! might our local media be missing the scent of this story?? egads! )

Daniels has been in attendance through OTAs from all I can infer. And afaik, there is no reason why he couldn't still try to negotiate a long-term deal after signing the tender.

[nunusguy]

Texans tight end Owen Daniels has become the second player to skip organized team activities this offseason because of a contract dispute with the franchise's front office.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6466951.html

[Keith]

Yeah, yeah. The Texans should be counting their lucky stars OD showed up at all without a contract.

Fans have been kinda harsh on Dunta's situation when I'm not really sure I believe all that's been reported contractually in the first place. Now Owen's out, and until I know more about what the Texans REALLY have and have not offered, I refuse to get upset at either Dunta or Owen.

Don't fault the player in either case here. Fault the system if anything. And don't forget your healthy sense of skepticism on anything you read about these things in the media.

[Nconroe]

Yes, its the long offseason so we have to talk about something. From what I've heard, I think the offer to OD is low so far. Maybe been to harsh on the guys skipping OTA, but they do make a lot of money for a game, so hard to feel to sorry for these guys.

[Keith]

Yeah, you either feel sorry for the millionaire players or the billionaire ownership... so I don't feel sorry for either.

I will say though that players have a VERY small window in which to make the big buxxx, and Daniels has just entered that window (as has Robinson). I think that's why the longer I've been at this, the more I tend to at least sympathize with the player's "plight" over the team's/ownership's. The fan in us wants everyone on the field, but this is business, and I doubt most of us regular joe's would risk life and limb for our jobs without vying for the best compensation we could, especially if our window to get PAID was anywhere near as small as it is for an NFL player.

[cadams]

Originally Posted by Keith

Yeah, you either feel sorry for the millionaire players or the billionaire ownership... so I don't feel sorry for either.

I will say though that players have a VERY small window in which to make the big buxxx, and Daniels has just entered that window (as has Robinson). I think that's why the longer I've been at this, the more I tend to at least sympathize with the player's "plight" over the team's/ownership's. The fan in us wants everyone on the field, but this is business, and I doubt most of us regular joe's would risk life and limb for our jobs without vying for the best compensation we could, especially if our window to get PAID was anywhere near as small as it is for an NFL player.

I am starting to get a little concerned over how they are handling negotiations. We no have 3 key players (robinson, daniels, and ryans) who want contracts, two of whom are now holding out. I am sure there are two sides to this story, but I don't like the way it is playing out.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by cadams

I am starting to get a little concerned over how they are handling negotiations. We no have 3 key players (robinson, daniels, and ryans) who want contracts, two of whom are now holding out. I am sure there are two sides to this story, but I don't like the way it is playing out.

I agree, but it is also important to look at all three individually, at least for now, since each is in a different situation. And it is important to remember that the current CBA situation is impacting all three of them, too.

Ryans is currently under contract, which immediately makes him different from Dunta and Owen. He would be a true/classic holdout if he failed to show for mandatory workouts. His situation is aggravated in that he'll be a RFA without a new CBA, so he's feeling a little screwed by the circumstances (and placing those feelings onto the GM), not to mention he feels as though he has already outperformed his rookie contract.

Daniels is an RFA that deserves a real contract. From reports it sounds like his team hasn't even been discussing #s yet with the Texans. Just sort of a slap in the face since the Texans already extended another RFA, Joel Dreesen, who ohbytheway is Daniels' backup. Without a new CBA though, instead of riding out 2009 as a RFA, he still wouldn't be a UFA next year.

Dunta's situation is a more standard F-tag one, but his is complicated by his significant injury in 2007. Much more uncertainty here than with other F-tags, so that both parties are at a standstill is predictable to me. I don't put a lot of faith into media reports re: Dunta's situation, and fans getting overly angry at Dunta are possibly jumping to conclusions. I think Dunta might just have to play 2009 as an F-tag, though I would still like him to sign long-term here.

[Bigtinylittle]

Originally Posted by Keith

I agree, but it is also important to look at all three individually, at least for now, since each is in a different situation. And it is important to remember that the current CBA situation is impacting all three of them, too.

Ryans is currently under contract, which immediately makes him different from Dunta and Owen. He would be a true/classic holdout if he failed to show for mandatory workouts. His situation is aggravated in that he'll be a RFA without a new CBA, so he's feeling a little screwed by the circumstances (and placing those feelings onto the GM), not to mention he feels as though he has already outperformed his rookie contract.

Daniels is an RFA that deserves a real contract. From reports it sounds like his team hasn't even been discussing #s yet with the Texans. Just sort of a slap in the face since the Texans already extended another RFA, Joel Dreesen, who ohbytheway is Daniels' backup. Without a new CBA though, instead of riding out 2009 as a RFA, he still wouldn't be a UFA next year.

Dunta's situation is a more standard F-tag one, but his is complicated by his significant injury in 2007. Much more uncertainty here than with other F-tags, so that both parties are at a standstill is predictable to me. I don't put a lot of faith into media reports re: Dunta's situation, and fans getting overly angry at Dunta are possibly jumping to conclusions. I think Dunta might just have to play 2009 as an F-tag, though I would still like him to sign long-term here.

I normally tune out all talk of contract negotions because we fans never actually know what is really going on behind the scenes anyway. I have learned from long experience that agents try their best to whip up public sentiment against a team as a way to pressure a team for more money. That is a given. What is also a given is that as part of their tactics agents either lie about the negotiations or are very vague in their details. I refuse to be a part of their game.

As long as there is a cap in the NFL it will be very important for the Texans to spend their money very wisely and avoid overpaying players. That's Rick's job, and I intend to let him do it.

[NBT]

Owen missed day 12 of OTA's because he's unhappy over his contract status. Offered a one year $2.7M deal, He wants to lock in a longterm deal before the CBA expires in 2010. The Texans don't want to get hung into that until they find out how the wind is going to blow. So we quite naturally have holdouts. It will either work out for the players or the teams. We just have to wait and see which way the wind will blow.

[dadmg]

Originally Posted by cadams

I am starting to get a little concerned over how they are handling negotiations. We no have 3 key players (robinson, daniels, and ryans) who want contracts, two of whom are now holding out.

You and me both. I'm surprised they let Demeco's or Dunta's contracts get to this point. And if they wanted to keep Owen it would've been a lot cheaper to sign him to an extension earlier too.

[papabear]

Originally Posted by dadmg

You and me both. I'm surprised they let Demeco's or Dunta's contracts get to this point. And if they wanted to keep Owen it would've been a lot cheaper to sign him to an extension earlier too.

This isn't at all unusual. That doesn't mean behind closed doors that things aren't going poorly, but the fact the contract negotiations got to this point is no reason to think the Texans are handling things badly.

Dunta's injury kept them from doing anything last year. We knew Daniels was going to be a RFA this year so there was no rush to get anything done before this offseason. I'm sure they both would have liked to have gotten a deal done before now, but it's not unusual by any stretch. There trying to get an extension done with Demeco entering the final year of his contract. I would like to see it all resolved, but there is nothing out of the ordinary about this at all.

[painekiller]

So Owen has signed his tender offer for the 2.9M. According to the chron.com, the Texans made Daniels a new offer this week that would have made him the #2 highest paid TE.

What that means is not clear, was it total money, guaranteed money, 1st 3 years? No sure, but Daniels did not accept it. His agents will continue to try to work out a long term deal.

[popanot]

OD is quickly entering DRob territory, IMO. The guy thinks he's worth way more than he is. How about you stop fumbling at critical times then come back and talk, OD?? Anyone wondering why they signed Dreessen and drafted two TE's now?

Texans Don’t Plan To Negotiate With Daniels
Posted by Mike Florio on June 14, 2009, 8:10 p.m.

Although agents Alan Herman and Dave Butz reportedly hope to continue to negotiate with the Texans on a long-term deal for tight end Owen Daniels, a league source tells us that the team’s current plan is to allow Daniels to play out the 2009 season under his one-year, $2.79 million salary, before taking up the issue of a multi-year contract.

Per the source, Daniels wants to be the highest-paid tight end in the sport. To get there, he’d need a deal that averages more than Dallas Clark’s $6.9 million annual package from the Colts.

And while John McClain of the Houston Chronicle reports that the Texans already have offered a contract that would make Daniels the league’s second highest-paid tight end (the current No. 2, Kellen Winslow of Tampa, averages $6.5 million), we’re told that the Texans’ best offer would put Daniels at No. 4, between Tony Gonzalez’s $6.25 million average and Daniel Graham’s $6 million average.

Rounding out the top eight are Jeremy Shockey ($5.1 million), Chris Cooley ($4.8 million), Jason Witten ($4.6 million), and Antonio Gates ($4.4 million).

The team’s hard line with Daniels arises in part, we’re told, from the fact that he is represented by the same firm that has cornerback Dunta Robinson, the team’s unsigned franchise player — and that the Texans are irritated with the manner in which both players have been handled this offseason.

Though it’s possible that the Texans will reverse course on their willingness to sign Daniels to a long-term deal if he decides to take the best offer that has been on the table, the current position (as we understand it) is that the Texans won’t be making Daniels the highest-paid tight end in the game.

Though he has been a solid player during his first three NFL seasons, does he really merit $7 million per year?

[Nconroe]

If I heard right, on ABC 13 news tonight OD signed tender. I guess that is very good for him and the team. Wonder if he is one of the 30 who don't have to practice, just workout, I guess so.

[superbowlbound]

I don't like this one bit. Sure, I'm definitely pleased that the tender's been signed, but regardless of who's got the right information, be it florio or mcclain, I don't understand how you can argue with that money, especially with the state of the CBA. I hope the Texans don't negotiate further, as far as the per-year average goes. To be perfectly honest, if you're going to turn down top 5 money at your position, you're a damn fool, and you deserve whatever negative things come of it. I would laugh my ass off if neither dunta nor owen got their deals done, both become/remain RFA's with the burning of the old CBA, and they lose a good 7 million each in the process, because their agents are f*cking stupid. according to last year's numbers, owen was, among TE's: 5th in receptions, 3rd in yards, 5th in ypc (min 40 receptions), 6th in 1st down % (same min), and tied for 3rd in fumbles. sounds like 4th highest paid TE in the sport is right where he should be. Get your head out of your ass and play some football.

[Keith]

Update from Owen via Facebook a little over an hour ago seems to counter the PFT story:

We're still working really hard to get something done. Hopefully we can make it happen soon.

If the Texans really did offer what these reports suggest, and assuming there is nothing funny with the per year averages (i.e. backloading the "guarantees" with some huge roster bonus in 2011 or something), then I'd think REAL hard before turning down the next offer if I were Daniels.

I hate commenting on this though because we don't know what's really happening with these negotiations. If you think you know just because you saw it reported on the chron or somewhere else, then in reality you only know an angle of it filtered through the lens of someone who may or may not trust and understand the info him/herself.

Just sayin'. I think I've said this a bunch already, but I am still skeptical that the Texans really had that huge offer to Dunta on the table. I could be wrong of course, but Dunta's agent has been a little quiet on the terms and we all know already that Rick Smith and the Texans know how to use the chron as their mouthpiece when they want to.

But if the reports are true, then these guys should sign. But we don't know all the facts other than that the teams and not the players hold all the cards in both of these negotiations.

Back to Daniels... unless he knows that a new CBA is coming, then he needs to know that he's screwed. That's why I would sign any legit offer I can get, and a top 3-5 offer is legit. Which is different than Dunta... he'll get almost $10mm as a f-tag w/o a deal vs. the $2mm or so OD gets with just his tender. Big difference, plus the situation is the same in 2010 without a CBA with Dunta as potential UFA, Daniels as RFA.

[Mike]

That quote from OD makes me breathe a bit easier. I hope they can get him and Demeco done before camp opens. Lance Z this AM said that OD and Dunta are represented by the same firm, so maybe...maybe I am looking for the silver lining that if they can get OD taken care of, that might make it a little easier for Dunta to get a deal done. With Demeco canning his agent that says he wants to get a deal done.

Hopefully both sides in all three cases understand the art of the negotiation and can come to reasonable concessions to make the deals happen.

[Keith]

Daniels skipped out on the first day of the mandatory mini-camp.

Daniels is in line for a fine of almost $10,000 for missing the mandatory session while under contract. A player cannot be fined further than that for missing additional days and it's unclear if Daniels intends to skip all three days.

"We're happy that he elected to come in and sign his tender and be a part of the football team again; a little disappointed that he's not here today," general manager Rick Smith said.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/s...e=NFLHeadlines

Not surprised he isn't there, at least not until a new contract is signed.