1st Round QB trade up

[Roy P]

Taking a quick look at a Mock draft and considering which teams might be willing to trade down to allow us to trade up for a QB and wanted to discuss. If a team doesn't trade up to #1 and Tennessee takes a non-QB and Cleveland drafts Wentz - Goff could potentially be available. Baltimore at #6 would be the first viable team who might be willing to trade down to #22. I don't have a Value chart or the Ravens' picks in front of me to see what be equivalent, but would like to consider the possibility. Miami at #8 is the next spot to consider trading up to if the 49ers stay committed to Kaepernick. Then #10 NYG is most likely the last possibility to get Goff. Assuming of course the Rams or Eagles don't trade up.

So, I would like to consider the possibility and cost of trading up to 6, 8, and 10 for Jared Goff.
Secondly, if Goff and Wentz are off the board at #10, how much would it take to trade up to #12 for the Saints pick to guarantee Jordan Lynch? Would he be worth it to "have your 'Franchise QB'"?

If it's comparable to move up to 10 vs 12, I might be willing to pull the trigger if Jared Goff was available.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by Roy P

So, I would like to consider the possibility and cost of trading up to 6, 8, and 10 for Jared Goff.
Secondly, if Goff and Wentz are off the board at #10, how much would it take to trade up to #12 for the Saints pick to guarantee Jordan Lynch? Would he be worth it to "have your 'Franchise QB'"?

If it's comparable to move up to 10 vs 12, I might be willing to pull the trigger if Jared Goff was available.

6 = 1600
8 = 1400
10 = 1300
12 = 1200

22 = 780
54 = 360
86 = 160
118 = 58

These numbers are from Walters Football Site's Trade Value Chart.

Usually a future pick is worth one round lower on the chart.

This is Walters Football review on Lynch

Paxton Lynch, QB, Memphis
Height: 6-7. Weight: 245.
Projected 40 Time: 4.78.
Projected Round (2016): 1-2.
2/4/16: In 2015, Lynch completed 67 percent of his passes for 3,778 yards with 28 touchdowns and three interceptions. He has a good skill set, but is raw and needs development. Lynch has an arm that can make all the throws for the pro game, and he flashed the ability to pass accurately and beat good coverage with precise completions into tight windows. Lynch also has the athleticism to make plays with his feet and or throws on the run.

However, there is a lot of work that Lynch needs. His footwork and field vision are the primary areas to improve. Lynch was inconsistent with passing accurately and working through his progressions. He needs to become more consistent with the ability to thrive as a pocket passer as well. His eye movement and working through his progressions need to be faster and more consistent. According to sources, his head coach Justin Fuente said that Lynch needs to mature on the field with his football I.Q. and needs to mature off the field to handle being a franchise quarterback. Fuente coached Andy Dalton at TCU, and he told NFL evaluators that Dalton was far ahead of where Lynch is coming out of college.

In his previous seasons as a starter, Lynch used his running ability more. As a sophomore, he ran for 321 yards with 13 touchdowns while completing 63 percent of his passes for 3,031 yards with 22 touchdowns and nine interceptions. Lynch completed 58 percent of his passes for 2,056 yards with nine touchdowns and 10 interceptions as a freshman.

[Roy P]

1st + 2nd + 4th to get Goff at #12. I would do that for the Franchise QB.

[painekiller]

Walters had this to say about Cook

#4 Connor Cook, QB, Michigan State
Height: 6-4. Weight: 218.
Projected 40 Time: 4.60.
Projected Round (2016): 1-3.
2/4/16: Sources say that Cook has good height, weight and delivery, but a number of evaluators don't really like him. They think he's too inaccurate and question his lack of leadership with his team not voting him a team captain. If one highly touted quarterback prospect slides like others have in years past, Cook could be the prime candidate. He made a big mistake turning down his Senior Bowl invitation and the opportunity to address some of these concerns.

In 2015, Cook connected on 56 percent passes for 3,131 yards with 24 touchdowns and seven interceptions. He played well against Oregon, but wasn't overwhelming against some mediocre opponents, though he had a prolific game against Rutgers. The Spartans have admitted their play calling was overly conservative at times and needed to let Cook throw more often. Late in the regular season, he played with an injured shoulder.

Cook has athleticism, good size, experience in a pro-style system and a strong arm that can make some beautiful throws downfield into tight windows. However, he isn't a quarterback who drops back and throws 50 times a game while dominating a defense. His accuracy needs improvement as well. Cook was more of a game-manager for Michigan State, and that could be his future in the NFL.

And this to say about Prescott

# 8 Dak Prescott, QB, Mississippi State
Height: 6-2. Weight: 226. Arm: 31.38. Hand: 9.88.
Projected 40 Time: 4.69.
Projected Round (2016): 4-6.
2/4/16: Prescott completed 66 percent of his passes in 2015 for 3,793 yards with 29 touchdowns and five interceptions. On the ground, he totaled 588 yards with 10 scores. Sources say they view Prescott as Tim Tebow 2.0 from playing in the same offense, though Prescott has better throwing mechanics and functions better out of the pocket than Tebow did entering the draft. They think Prescott needs to become a better pocket passer, but they numerous teams loved him in the Senior Bowl meetings. They were impressed with his football I.Q. and his leadership skills to be captain in a NFL locker room.

8/8/15: Prescott completed 61 percent of his passes in 2014 for 3,449 yards with 27 touchdowns and 11 interceptions. He averaged 4.7 yards per carry for 986 yards with 14 scores on the ground. Prescott underwhelmed against Alabama, but that was really the only game of the season in which he struggled.

Prescott's play has been somewhat reminiscent of Tim Tebow at Florida because Prescott is playing in the same offense for Tebow's former offensive coordinator, Dan Mullen, the Mississippi State head coach. Like Tebow, Prescott needs to improve his pocket passing and accuracy for the NFL.

In 2013, Prescott completed 58 percent of his passes for 940 yards with 10 touchdowns and seven interceptions.

He has Cardale Jones, Christian Hackenberg, and Jacoby Brissett at 5 - 6 - 7.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by Roy P

1st + 2nd + 4th to get Goff at #12. I would do that for the Franchise QB.

Walters again

Jared Goff*, QB, California
Height: 6-4. Weight: 210.
Projected 40 Time: 4.71.
Projected Round (2016): 1.
2/4/16: In 2015, Goff completed 64 percent of his passes for 4,719 yards with 43 touchdowns and 13 interceptions. He beat up on weak competition early in the season, but he didn't play as well against quality opponents like Utah, UCLA and USC. Goff bounced back to close out the regular season well against Stanford and Arizona State.

Still, Goff demonstrated his strong, accurate arm and quality field vision. He also has functional mobility to avoid rushers and pick up some yards on the ground. Goff needs to add weight for the NFL and also could have some issues with getting rattled and handling the rush at the next level.

Goff's stats were inflated by a college offense that has a lot of instant passes, and coming from that system, he will need development for the NFL with field vision, working under center and holding up in the face of a pass rush. Goff displayed good mechanics at times, but also had some issues maintaining that when faced with a lot of pressure, and that led to some bad habits of throwing off his back foot. He has said he is working to correct those problems.

Some scouts said that Goff has been overhyped. One scouting director said that Goff was a good player, but he didn't feel he was "top of the draft" worthy right now. Another scout said they were lukewarm on Goff as a pro quarterback.

In speaking to another general manager from a team that is among the best at evaluating and developing quarterbacks, he felt that Goff was the best of the draft-eligible signal-callers. Obviously, there isn't a real consensus about Goff among NFL evaluators.

8/8/14: Goff enjoyed a breakout 2014 season. The sophomore completed 62 percent of his passes for 3,973 yards with 35 touchdowns and seven interceptions. Goff displayed some pocket-passing potential while playing with a less-than-ideal supporting cast. He struggled against USC's good defense taking sacks and had a few interceptions dropped. Goff needs to perform better against top competition. He became the starter as a freshman in 2013 and completed 60 percent of his passes for 3,508 yards with 18 touchdowns and 10 interceptions.

First off I don't think Goff falls to 12, 2nd not sure I give up that much for a project. Every QB in this draft is a project and at the same time they will go much to early for there skills sets.

I like Wentz, but he is a project also. Not sure I would give up 3 picks for him. And I was willing to look at a trade up. But the reality is the Texans have a ton of holes. And this is a defense heavy draft.

So I'm torn as what to do. I hate where we are currently, no QB and holes to plug at RB, OL, TE, SS, DE, NT. But also not in love with any of the guys enough to give up 3 picks to get him. I am more inclined to give up next years #1 before I am this years #2.

And truly, if the team likes one of the lessor guys, Cook - Hackenburg - Prescott, they can save picks and possibly trade down. The fans will go crazy on Thursday night of the draft if they trade down.

[Keith]

Given the whole world knows the Texans are targeting a QB for their first pick, it seems inevitable the team will have to trade up in Round 1 to get the guy they like.

And after months of scrutinizing these guys, they will inevitably fall in love with one over the others. In that case, giving up #22 plus next year's first rounder isn't terribly expensive to get THE quarterback this team both wants and needs. Just have to hope the team falls in love with the right guy, whomever that may be.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by Keith

Just have to hope the team falls in love with the right guy, whomever that may be.

You said a mouth full there.

[painekiller]

I have been doing more looking into a few guys

Jacoby Brissett has an arm and is athletic. We have never had a strong armed QB who can run. Watch the video.

NFL.com has the following blurb about him

Bottom Line With his size, arm and competitiveness, there are times when Brissett will remind you of Jameis Winston, but Winston understood the nuances of the position early in his college career while Brissett is still learning. Brissett’s overall ability as a passer is NFL-****caliber and he should continue to show rapid improvement on the next level with better weapons and protection. While an NFL staff will need to help him overcome his bad habits and learn to be more consistent with his pre****snap recognitions, Brissett has the tools to become an NFL starter.
-Lance Zierlein

And I have relooked at Cook. Watch the video.

NFL.com's Lance Zierlien has this to say

Bottom Line As a four-year starter, Cook has the big game experience and the production from a pro-style attack that should warrant early consideration.The concern is that his short and intermediate accuracy has never shown the improvement and consistency that scouts expected to see. His inability to take over in big games this year could hurt his cause. Cook flashes the potential of an NFL starter, but he has the makeup of game manager over playmaker.

If the team likes either of these guys and can get them, I think I would be ok with it.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by Keith

In that case, giving up #22 plus next year's first rounder isn't terribly expensive to get THE quarterback this team both wants and needs.

I would be more willing to trade #22 and next years #1 for a QB, but only if the team is sold on that guy being the QB we need to lead us going forward. Then get him some OL help, a RB, a slot guy and a TE. (I hope the team spends some money in FA on the defense).

And I am hoping for Wentz or Lynch, if they trade up.

[popanot]

I think the Cowboys and the Bears are the wildcards at the top. I think the Browns will go QB for sure. But if the Cowboys and Bears pass on QB, which could be the case since they have more critical needs elsewhere, we might be safe to move up into the pick #12, #13, #14 range and still get QB2. I think we need to jump the Rams if we're targeting QB2 or QB3 depending on how the QB's fall in the draft.

The Eagles are an interesting trade partner, IMO, if they decide to re-sign Bradford. They don't have a #2, but have some extra picks in the later rounds. So maybe our #1 and #2 for #13 and one of their mid-round picks?? The Saints are rebuilding too, so perhaps they'd be willing to work a cost-friendly deal. If you look at it, the teams that own picks #10 thru #13 look primed for a trade-up scenario. It's just a matter of how the QB board falls and cost.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by painekiller

And I have relooked at Cook. Watch the video.

This video shows off a lot of the good stuff I like about Cook's skillset. Vision, poise, size, strength, mechanics. NFL ready, at least from the neck down. LZ compared Cook to Hoyer in that article, which is an AWFUL comparison. Just terrible. Cook is nothing like Hoyer.

Couch scouts and draftniks hate that he skipped the Senior Bowl. Big frickin' whoop. Real scouts will see him at the Combine and his pro day, plus Cook has AMPLE game film from winning so many games at Michigan State. The negatives bantered about regarding his leadership... maybe it's Cutler-esque in that regard, but not Leaf-like. Not sure how much these off-field knocks on Cook will truly stick in NFL warrooms.

Cook has a teammate in this link aggressively disputing these notions.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...qb-connor-cook

"I don't buy any of that, one bit. I feel like, as he is my brother and he is family to me, it's kind of my obligation to try to kill some of that noise," Harris said. "Hopefully I can do that by getting people to understand from the inside of that locker room that we loved him and that he was the best quarterback in the country, no doubt about it.

"It's been a mystery to us, and it's really unfortunate. He's a great guy who comes from a great family. It's hurtful to me as well because he's part of our 2011 class that's been able to do so many special things at Michigan State. I know him, I know his parents well, his sister, I know everything about him. We talk all the time. For how close and tight-knit the team was, to me it's been kind of blasphemous, the amount of things that have been said about him."

[Roy P]

This QB conundrum is possibly the difference between the Texans making the playoffs and being a competitive team for the next five years or so. Obviously it is a huge decision to be made and the public opinion and patience is growing thin concerning developing a project. However, who is worth drafting when they'll be selected? The player with the tools and attitude to become a Franchise QB is Dak Prescott, in my opinion. However, I'm not sure that the Texans would be able to maximize his talent in their system. The consensus opinion is that Goff, Wentz, and Lynch are the top 3 and most likely first round picks. So, is there a guy like Kirk Cousins or Russell Wilson who can eventually be the guy without spending a 1st round pick on or needing to trade up for? Using my untrained eye, my fit for the Texans is Stanford QB Kevin Hogan. He is smart and athletic and an accurate passer from a "pro-style offense". If he had the volume of pass attempts that Goff had, I believe that his stats would project favorably. He just was not asked to throw as often due to the running game of McAffery. I would like to see opinion on this guy and if I am missing something here?

[barrett]

A huge part of playing QB is mental, so a big part of the evaluation process is the face to face interviews, research into background, discussions with former coaches and teammates, etc... Unfortunately we get access to about 5% of this info. And on the flip side, measurables, which we have full access to, matter less at QB than any other position. This makes it way harder for fans to project QBs than any other position.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by barrett

This makes it way harder for fans to project QBs than any other position.

I agree. I'm just going by what I see on the field and tidbit interviews.

[HPF Bob]

Originally Posted by popanot

The Eagles are an interesting trade partner, IMO, if they decide to re-sign Bradford. They don't have a #2, but have some extra picks in the later rounds. So maybe our #1 and #2 for #13 and one of their mid-round picks?? The Saints are rebuilding too, so perhaps they'd be willing to work a cost-friendly deal. If you look at it, the teams that own picks #10 thru #13 look primed for a trade-up scenario. It's just a matter of how the QB board falls and cost.

Trying to trade up from 22 into the Top 10 on Draft Day will be difficult, but I think trading up with the Eagles at 13 for our 1st and 2nd *before the draft* makes perfect sense. Once we are there, we can entertain a second trade to go get the QB we really want using next year's #1 or #2 as the bait or, if the cost is too high, we can use that spot to get the best OT on the board in order to beef up our porous OL or consider Ezekiel Elliot if he is still available.

There is also the possibility we can trade back down if we don't like our options and somebody else wants to overpay to move up. But Chip Kelly's gone and we need to see who in Philly is calling the shots.

We gave up two #2 for Schaub way back when. If we give up this year's #2 and next year's #2 to move up into position to draft the QB we want, that seems worth the sacrifice as long as the kid is the right one.

Out of Goff, Lynch and Wentz, Goff seems the guy with the smallest bust potential but also the guy with the smallest ceiling. I watched Lynch play against UH this year and he was just oozing with talent, had a sensational first half then seemed to disappear in the second half when his team needed him to make the big play. I really like him because I've seen the tools he brings and they are special but if he's not focused on/off the field, we can't have another Mallett.

Wentz, all I know is the same thing everyone else reads. Really risky to grab a QB from that level of competition but then you have guys like Flacco who rose from poor college competition to NFL stardom. I'd have to be really sold to invest three draft picks on something like that.

[nunusguy]

I think it's a zero-sum proposition when trading up in one big move or vs. two smaller, separate incremental moves, and I doubt that the Texans do it because it cost too much and I think the owner, no matter how much he wants a so called "franchise" QB is basically of a risk aversive mentality, i.e., he's unwilling to risk multiple first round picks on a single player.

[barrett]

We actually get something for our first round picks, so I would be against trading them away. But we waste rounds 2-4 like nobody in the league, so i'd love to give all of those away and spare us all the frustration.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by barrett

We actually get something for our first round picks, so I would be against trading them away. But we waste rounds 2-4 like nobody in the league, so i'd love to give all of those away and spare us all the frustration.

Scooby, we hardly knew ye.