Official Texans vs. Chiefs Game Thread, 09/13/2015

[Keith]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

What kind of a day did Clowney have ? Did he play much ?

He did alright. He still has some quickness. Took down Jamaal Charles from behind. Mentally, he's lacking. I'm chalking that up right now to him essentially still being a rookie, but he had an entire year as a pro when he should have been soaking up the mental aspects of the game.

Originally Posted by chuck

Mercilus on the other hand was just about invisible.

He is not good playing the run. He and Clowney don't really seem to contain the edge well, but maybe the D doesn't ask them to do this? All things considered, this will be the healthiest game Charles plays all season, and he didn't blow them up at least, especially in a game where the Chiefs had a comfortable lead almost all game.

Originally Posted by Arky

The radio guys were making the point that the pacing was different with him at the controls and it was.

I wanted Mallett much earlier. Check the ItB twitter timeline yesterday, lol.

That said, we have to keep in mind that Mallett basically entered the game in garbage time, and the TD to Hop was essentially considered as garbage time points in the fantasy football realm. The Chiefs weren't in a prevent, but they were giving out cushions bigger than Mattress Mack in the 4th quarter.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Keith

He did alright. He still has some quickness. Took down Jamaal Charles from behind. Mentally, he's lacking. I'm chalking that up right now to him essentially still being a rookie, but he had an entire year as a pro when he should have been soaking up the mental aspects of the game.


He is not good playing the run. He and Clowney don't really seem to contain the edge well, but maybe the D doesn't ask them to do this? All things considered, this will be the healthiest game Charles plays all season, and he didn't blow them up at least, especially in a game where the Chiefs had a comfortable lead almost all game.


I wanted Mallett much earlier. Check the ItB twitter timeline yesterday, lol.

That said, we have to keep in mind that Mallett basically entered the game in garbage time, and the TD to Hop was essentially considered as garbage time points in the fantasy football realm. The Chiefs weren't in a prevent, but they were giving out cushions bigger than Mattress Mack in the 4th quarter.

It was garbage time, but the switch is far more about what Hoyer isn't. The guy completed less than 60% in college, less than 60% as a pro, less than 60% last year, and less than 60% yesterday. I don't know where anyone gets the idea he is the steady and consistent vet. He is a scattershot QB who can't throw it where he wants, and doesn't always know where he wants it (INT #1 yesterday). He is a huge downgrade from Fitzpatrick in every possible way. Last year Fitz was 63% and better than 2:1 TD:INT ratio. Hoyer was 55% and worse than 1:1. He has no business getting a starting NFL job.

This team goes nowhere with our QBs. We are wasting time. O'Brien knows he has an unlimited leash so he is apparently waiting for the QB of his choosing. There is wisdom in that, but it means we will not play a meaningful football game in 2015.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by barrett

It was garbage time, but the switch is far more about what Hoyer isn't. The guy completed less than 60% in college, less than 60% as a pro, less than 60% last year, and less than 60% yesterday. I don't know where anyone gets the idea he is the steady and consistent vet. He is a scattershot QB who can't throw it where he wants, and doesn't always know where he wants it (INT #1 yesterday). He is a huge downgrade from Fitzpatrick in every possible way. Last year Fitz was 63% and better than 2:1 TD:INT ratio. Hoyer was 55% and worse than 1:1. He has no business getting a starting NFL job.

This team goes nowhere with our QBs. We are wasting time. O'Brien knows he has an unlimited leash so he is apparently waiting for the QB of his choosing. There is wisdom in that, but it means we will not play a meaningful football game in 2015.

Sounds to me like you just made an indictment about O'briens lack of football knowledge, specifically his knowlege about QBbs which I thought was supposed to be his strength. You are saying that Mallet is not only better than Hoyers, but we already had a guy here last year (Fitzy), who was better than Hoyer. In other words, I think you are saying O'brien is in over his head.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

Sounds to me like you just made an indictment about O'briens lack of football knowledge, specifically his knowlege about QBbs which I thought was supposed to be his strength. You are saying that Mallet is not only better than Hoyers, but we already had a guy here last year (Fitzy), who was better than Hoyer. In other words, I think you are saying O'brien is in over his head.

You mean when this team entered the season with Hoyer as our starting QB you didn't question it?

I was very clear that I think O'Brien is biding his time, turning over the roster, and waiting for the QB he wants to come along. He feels no pressure to pick an actual QB because he has no job pressure. If you take a QB high in the draft the clock starts running and you get fired when that clock runs out. When you just punt the QB position, there is no clock and no risk to your job (assuming your owner allows you to throw away seasons without even a potential QB answer).

I think O'Brien is shrewd and doing what's best for himself by not going all in for a QB the last two years, when he apparently didn't like anything available in the draft or FA. Most teams try to force a QB just to pretend there is progress (JAX drafting Bortles last year). But our owner has no problem throwing away seasons as long as our fans keep showing up, so O'Brien gets to keep waiting for his perfect 10 to come along.

I think it is shameful for us to throw away seasons and waste JJ Watt's HOF career, but I don't blame Bill O'Brien, I am sure O'Brien was very clear up front when he was hired that he didn't like any of last year's draft class and might not like any of this year's. There is no way he is going into a season with no QB unless he knows his owner is ok with it.

[Joshua]

So all we have to do now is wait for a wart-free QB to fall to us in the draft then we're set? No one ever reaches for even wart-covered QBs in the NFL draft so this plan is fool proof and backed by years of draft history. Great strategy.

[popanot]

Well, in addition to QB, we're apparently screwed if/when Foster ever leaves or is hurt. It's becoming increasingly obvious to me that Blue is not the future. Sheesh, pick up a tough yard man!! Judging by the 2nd half and how often Grimes and Polk were in there, it looked to me like Hoyer wasn't the only one benched

[barrett]

Originally Posted by popanot

Well, in addition to QB, we're apparently screwed if/when Foster ever leaves or is hurt. It's becoming increasingly obvious to me that Blue is not the future. Sheesh, pick up a tough yard man!! Judging by the 2nd half and how often Grimes and Polk were in there, it looked to me like Hoyer wasn't the only one benched

I don't think Blue should ever be a lead back. He does enough things well he is a great guy to have on a roster (runs, catches, plays ST). But we barely tried running the ball yesterday, and when we did we averaged over 4 ypc. We just abandoned the run due to the early deficit.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by barrett

You mean when this team entered the season with Hoyer as our starting QB you didn't question it?

I was very clear that I think O'Brien is biding his time, turning over the roster, and waiting for the QB he wants to come along. He feels no pressure to pick an actual QB because he has no job pressure. If you take a QB high in the draft the clock starts running and you get fired when that clock runs out. When you just punt the QB position, there is no clock and no risk to your job (assuming your owner allows you to throw away seasons without even a potential QB answer).

I think O'Brien is shrewd and doing what's best for himself by not going all in for a QB the last two years, when he apparently didn't like anything available in the draft or FA. Most teams try to force a QB just to pretend there is progress (JAX drafting Bortles last year). But our owner has no problem throwing away seasons as long as our fans keep showing up, so O'Brien gets to keep waiting for his perfect 10 to come along.

I think it is shameful for us to throw away seasons and waste JJ Watt's HOF career, but I don't blame Bill O'Brien, I am sure O'Brien was very clear up front when he was hired that he didn't like any of last year's draft class and might not like any of this year's. There is no way he is going into a season with no QB unless he knows his owner is ok with it.

I could maybe buy your theory about the owner giving O'Brien ample time to turn the franchise around if McNair was 50 or even 60 something, but McNair is an 80-year-old who's already had one battle with cancer. Somehow I think winning it all is a more pressing for Bob McNair right now.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by barrett

This team goes nowhere with our QBs. We are wasting time. O'Brien knows he has an unlimited leash so he is apparently waiting for the QB of his choosing. There is wisdom in that, but it means we will not play a meaningful football game in 2015.

You're starting to sound like the me of about four years ago. Although I'm not sure I ever ascribed wisdom to the team's head coach.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by Keith

I wanted Mallett much earlier. Check the ItB twitter timeline yesterday, lol.

What, right after the 1st qtr INT, 15 minutes after the game started? lol.

That said, we have to keep in mind that Mallett basically entered the game in garbage time, and the TD to Hop was essentially considered as garbage time points in the fantasy football realm. The Chiefs weren't in a prevent, but they were giving out cushions bigger than Mattress Mack in the 4th quarter.

Well, I think the point being, even if the coverage was somewhat loose, Mallett didn't screw it up, no? I think he moved the ball well with the only regrettable thing being the miss to Graham on 3rd and 10 (followed by the doinky Bullock FG). 11 pts. in 6 or 7 minutes really prorates nicely over 4 qtrs.....

There must be something about Mallett that doesn't fit OB's checklist of what an NFL QB should be. While Hoyer may get the start in Carolina, I bet Mallett is the one that finishes the game..... We may be 0-2 by then, though....

Video - Mallett's postgame presser

Early line = Carolina by 3

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Arky

What, right after the 1st qtr INT, 15 minutes after the game started? lol.

Couldn't get the network connection in stadium to tweet after the first snap.

Originally Posted by Arky

11 pts. in 6 or 7 minutes really prorates nicely over 4 qtrs.....

lol, I may be kneejerk fan, but isn't "on pace guy" worse?

Originally Posted by Arky

There must be something about Mallett that doesn't fit OB's checklist of what an NFL QB should be.

Yeah, pretty much all of it. Here's the checklist for O'Brien's dream QB:

1. They have to be able to throw the ball accurately. They don't have to be the greatest athletes in the world.
2. They have to be able to make good decisions. You can judge that off the field.
3. They have to be intelligent, with a great football IQ.

1. Mallett's accuracy isn't great. 54.3% for his brief NFL career. Strong-armed, but he misfires at times.

2. As seen in one of the Hard Knocks episodes, OB really seems dumbfounded at Mallett's decision making sometimes. Probably with Hoyer's too, but we're just focused on Mal right now. As for off the field, do I even need to mention the alarm clock?

3. Mal's IQ gets questioned more than anything, probably unfairly so too much, but best said, this is not his strength.

I think Mallett is the best man on the roster right now, but clearly, two years in, O'Brien still doesn't have his QB. I wonder how much he regrets passing on Bortles for Clowney.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by Keith

Yeah, pretty much all of it. Here's the checklist for O'Brien's dream QB:

1. Mallett's accuracy isn't great. 54.3% for his brief NFL career. Strong-armed, but he misfires at times.

2. As seen in one of the Hard Knocks episodes, OB really seems dumbfounded at Mallett's decision making sometimes. Probably with Hoyer's too, but we're just focused on Mal right now. As for off the field, do I even need to mention the alarm clock?

3. Mal's IQ gets questioned more than anything, probably unfairly so too much, but best said, this is not his strength.

I think Mallett is the best man on the roster right now, but clearly, two years in, O'Brien still doesn't have his QB. I wonder how much he regrets passing on Bortles for Clowney.

Yep, I saw the OB video and pretty much agree with all that you say. The thing that really opened my eyes was that scene in HK where OB was watching film of a Mallett INT and the absolute distaste/disgust with what he was seeing. IIRC, I believe he called it a "stupid decision" or something along those lines. I pretty much felt Hoyer was a lock for #1 after that....

I watched pretty much all of Mallett's college career (see my handle). He was and can still be erratic at times. He's pretty much the same guy but "pro-educated", now and (I'd like to think) a better QB. But still a ways to go.

Someone in another forum said it could be his "Jesse Pinkman (Breaking Bad) demeanor" that was holding him back..... I thought that was an awesome analogy...

I think OB needs to swallow his pride a bit and loosen up and give the guy a shot. Mallett's got a little swag which is not such a bad thing....

OB is already starting to get hit with some pretty big stones thrown from the media.... Brian Smith has not minced words lately....

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Keith

Couldn't get the network connection in stadium to tweet after the first snap.

lol, I may be kneejerk fan, but isn't "on pace guy" worse?

Yeah, pretty much all of it. Here's the checklist for O'Brien's dream QB:

1. Mallett's accuracy isn't great. 54.3% for his brief NFL career. Strong-armed, but he misfires at times.

2. As seen in one of the Hard Knocks episodes, OB really seems dumbfounded at Mallett's decision making sometimes. Probably with Hoyer's too, but we're just focused on Mal right now. As for off the field, do I even need to mention the alarm clock?

3. Mal's IQ gets questioned more than anything, probably unfairly so too much, but best said, this is not his strength.

I think Mallett is the best man on the roster right now, but clearly, two years in, O'Brien still doesn't have his QB. I wonder how much he regrets passing on Bortles for Clowney.

Are you saying you like Bortles?

[Keith]

Originally Posted by barrett

Are you saying you like Bortles?

Better than any other QB on the Texans roster? Yes. Sad but true. Same could be said of Bridgewater, Garoppolo, heck maybe even Mettenberger. And that's just from the 2014 class.

I would be curious to know what kind of QB Bortles would have been under O'Brien two years, spending much of 2014 on the bench behind Fitzy. Just look at the improvement a lesser QB like Tom Savage has shown.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Keith

Better than any other QB on the Texans roster? Yes. Sad but true. Same could be said of Bridgewater, Garoppolo, heck maybe even Mettenberger. And that's just from the 2014 class.

I would be curious to know what kind of QB Bortles would have been under O'Brien two years, spending much of 2014 on the bench behind Fitzy. Just look at the improvement a lesser QB like Tom Savage has shown.

Bortles did not have much to work with, but he had the 3rd worst QBR among rookies since 2006, beating only Blaine Gabbert and Jimmy Clausen. He was by far the worst among the 2014 draft class. I'd take all the other guys you mentioned over our guys, but Bortles to me is the reason a small part of me is glad O'Brien didn't just take a QB to take one. We may be wasting years with no QB, but drafting a guy as high as Bortles means you are committed to at least 3-4 years with him no matter how bad he plays (like we were with Carr).

[Keith]

So two of those three are Jaguars rookies. Probably more than coincidence. And assuming Bortles would be a failure with O'Brien (and the relatively better supporting cast the Texans seem to offer over the Jags) seems less of a given to me. Arguably of that draft class, Bortles was asked to do the most with the least, so the rookie season QBR means a little less to me.

Like him or not, Bortles was the first QB selected, and while not a guarantee of success, the first round of the NFL Draft is the best place for finding franchise QBs. Don't agree with me? Then tell me your plan for solving the QB position on the Texans in 2016 if it doesn't involve using a high pick. Because if the Texans refuse to ignore the position in the draft - again - then they'll be back in the market for retreads and backups ...and future 7-9 to 9-7 seasons (or worse).

Talk about 3-4 wasted seasons... and a search for a new coaching staff. Granted, McNair has been a very patient owner to date, but this plan you are surmising where O'Brien is willing to wait out 3+ years of .500 football for the perfect QB to fall into his lap just isn't a good plan. Can't play the "long con" in the NFL like the Astros appear poised to do in MLB. There is no farm system in the Not For Long, and playoff success without at least an above average QB is generally an anomaly. That's why I wonder if he regrets passing on Bortles (or fill-in-the-name QB from the last two drafts he passed on). The QB strategies of 2014 and 2015 are costing him wins, and I can't see that settling well for a head coach.