How Tight is the QB Leash? Or is Schaub Just Too Conservative?

[Keith]

Of the many things to pull out of the playoff loss to the Pats was the difference in how the Pats and Belichick seem to let Brady run the offense (recall Belichick hardly looking up when Brady threw a 2nd half TD?) and Kubiak who never seems to let Schaub audible (recall Schaub anxiously waiting the playcall into his helmet during the waning minutes of the 4th quarter?).

There is a problem here for the Texans. Schaub knows this offense by now. There are times when it seems Kubiak won't let him cut loose. There are times too when it seems like Schaub has deeper passing options available though he goes for the safer pass.

There's a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking going on where Schaub is getting tossed by fans in favor of guys like Alex Smith and T.J. Yates. Which if you've ever watched football, you'll know these fans haven't. Schaub is better than both, easily.

Kubiak learned from Shanahan who learned from Bill Walsh to script plays. Old Sept 2000 article from The Sporting News saved here goes into a lot on that, btw (it's a long but interesting read). Of course a lot of teams script plays, but Kubiak seems to have over-scripted Schaub sometimes.

I think it is one thing for Kubiak to use a script to reel in someone a little more free-spirited like Jake Plummer or maybe even a better improvisor like RG3 now with the Shanahans in Washington, but Schaub seems like the opposite where he needs to be given the green light more often to open up the offense more. Schaub waiting for the playcall and huddling the offense with just 9 minutes to play down three scores last night is just insane.

Brady, Manning, Rodgers... I don't see any of those guys having a 4th quarter like the one Schaub had last night, and I don't mean that as a knock on what Schaub can and can't do (like, ahem, throw the out route). Schaub is a 9-yr vet. Kubiak needs to empower him to act like one.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by Keith

Schaub is a 9-yr vet. Kubiak needs to empower him to act like one.

Good luck with that.

[popanot]

Originally Posted by Keith

There's a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking going on where Schaub is getting tossed by fans in favor of guys like Alex Smith and T.J. Yates. Which if you've ever watched football, you'll know these fans haven't. Schaub is better than both, easily.

Pretty bold statement. Not saying Yates is the answer, nor am I saying he should be handed the starting job, but you don't think they should at least open the competition? If Schaub beats him out, so be it, but there should be competition.

Even at that, I'd like to know what Schaub has that is clearly better than Yates (or maybe Smith, or someone else...)?

Athleticism? I'd give Yates the advantage.
Arm Strength? Yates.
Mobility? Yates.
Accuracy? Perhaps Schaub, but certainly not by much - if at all.
Pocket Awareness and Quick-Twitch Reflex? Haven't seen enough of Yates, but Schaub's a statue.
Smarts? Kubiak apparently doesn't think Schaub's all that if he can't even let him audible in basic, low-pressure situations.

DEC 2011: Yates (a rookie w/zero camp and practice 1rst team reps) 2W's-3L's / 1-1 in playoffs. Yes, Yates played poorly, but they were in each of the losses and were in the playoff game.
DEC 2012: Schaub (9yr vet w/ALL 1st team reps) 2W's-3L's / 1-1 in playoffs. Schaub played poorly in most of the loses and was awful in the 2 games against the Pats.

It pains me to even bring Yates into the equation, I wanted (want) Schaub to succeed. However, we now know what Schaub can do. And that's mostly beat the teams he should, but crater in the big games that count.

If the Texans don't think Yates can be a future starter, then they better damn well make sure they draft or trade for someone who can in the very near future. Just think of where this franchise will be if Schaub falls on his face again next year without the potential QB answer in the pipeline.

EDIT: And let me just add, if the Texans don't think it's Yates, I'm all for drafting one of the top QB's in this year's draft if one of them falls to late-2nd or 3rd Rd and taking a chance he'll develop. They need to get someone who has potential in the pipeline.

[popanot]

Originally Posted by Keith

There is a problem here for the Texans. Schaub knows this offense by now. There are times when it seems Kubiak won't let him cut loose. There are times too when it seems like Schaub has deeper passing options available though he goes for the safer pass.

It's frustrating that Kubiak will not pull off the reins and at least let Schuab audible and also run hurry-up on his own from time to time. Hell, at least try it and practice it in games against lessor opponents. I think it's all Kubiak there. As for Schaub and the deep ball, I think he's 1)gun shy not wanting to make a mistake, 2)no one gets open deep consistently enough to build his confidence by hitting a few, and 3)he either no longer has the arm strength to get it there on time and accurately, or, there's a slight injury we don't know about.

[barrett]

I am with Keith. If you think Yates is the answer you have not watched much football. He was awful last year. He was terrible in his only action this year. Arizona and jacksonville would pass on him. He was bad in the preseason. He is not an NFL starting qb.

Smith adds a measure of mobility but is even more limited in terms of arm strength and the deep ball. I would see him as a lateral move at best.

I'd love to see a qb switch but only for a real upgrade or a guy with potential to be a big upgrade. I'd trade a 2nd for Kurt cousins right now or spend a pick on an unnamed qb. There is no available veteran that interests me.

[chuck]

The team has just given Schaub an extension worth $100000000000 that kicks in next year. He's not going anywhere.

I guess there are several ways to interpret that last sentence and sadly they are all valid.

[Fonz the Boss]

One thing I wanted to do this year is avoid all forums seeing as how every time I say something, I jinx it. Now that I know I'm not the jinx I can finally get back posting. Let me begin by saying that I have always been a Matt Schaub defender, even through the late regular season collapse. Reason for that was because of guys like Dilfer, Grossman and Brad Johnson being able to reach the Super Bowl. Now I'm not so sure because the game has changed alot since those guys. Defenses are never going to be that dominant ever again with all the rule changes. Also, the new era QBs have rocket arms and 4.3 40 speed. If you are a slow immobile QB then your last name better be Brady, Manning or Brees. I wish I could be wrong about Matt Schaub because I like him but I'm not so sure. I do know with 100% certainty that we are stuck with him for at least one more year. Maybe he can get it done if we get the right side of our O line fixed and put more speed at the WR position... I know this is a long shot but if Schaub doesn't get it done next year and RGIII ends the season healthy, then I would want us to make a push on a deal for Kirk Cousins.

[Arky]

Kubes was speaking very highly of Keenum today on his radio show. I like Keenum myself and wouldn't mind it if they could auction off TJ and move Keenum into the #2 spot. He's definitely got skills (and decent wheels) - not your prototypical height, though.

I remember Keenum threw a beauty of a touch pass in preseason this year - you could almost hear the crowd gasp as it was so alien-looking....

----------------------------------

And I'd like to briefly interrupt (my) Schaub-bashing to point out that Schaub also had a creative pass yesterday. Texans were backed up to their 5 yard line or so and it looked like Schaub was going to get creamed for a safety when he somehow flung the ball out to Foster on the screen for a 25-30 yard gain. Nice play. Wish there would have been more.

[popanot]

Didn't even think of Keenum, but yeah, let him compete too. No one is saying Yates is the answer, but I think we've all come to the conclusion Schaub isn't. Open competition is what people are asking for! Whether it's Yates, Keenum, or some aging veteran, bring in competition to push Schaub.

[WMH]

Originally Posted by popanot

Didn't even think of Keenum, but yeah, let him compete too. No one is saying Yates is the answer, but I think we've all come to the conclusion Schaub isn't. Open competition is what people are asking for! Whether it's Yates, Keenum, or some aging veteran, bring in competition to push Schaub.

No disrespect, but you are delusional if you think Kubiak is going to open up the QB competition because that is what "people" are asking for, especially the season that starts his extension.

Schaub and Kubiak are tied at the hip. When McNair decides Kubiak can't get this team to the promise land, that is likely when you get a new HC, scheme and a new QB.

[HPF Bob]

WMH, that is probably correct. Schaub was brought here by Kubiak for Kubiak's offense and I don't see them cutting him loose or forcing him to win a job but the question remains whether the Texans have gone as far as they can with this group of players and coaches? I'd like to think there is another player addition or two that can raise us to the next level but it will be difficult with the cap and the fact that some key players are aging and their window of opportunity may close soon.

Sorta like Bagwell. When the Astros were finally able to get to the Series, Bagwell was just a shell of his self and couldn't contribute. I don't want that to be AJ's legacy too.

[popanot]

Originally Posted by WMH

No disrespect, but you are delusional if you think Kubiak is going to open up the QB competition because that is what "people" are asking for, especially the season that starts his extension.

Schaub and Kubiak are tied at the hip. When McNair decides Kubiak can't get this team to the promise land, that is likely when you get a new HC, scheme and a new QB.

Never said he WOULD, said he SHOULD. McNair and Smith should mandate it just like they mandated he hire Wade. Kubiak has proven he's either too stubborn or too stupid to make the hard decisions and sometimes needs a kick in the ass to move. And I agree with you in that, unfortunately, Kubiak and Schaub will sink this ship together.

[chuck]

For those of you who listen to sports talk in Houston or are just generally more attentive than I am has Kubiak ever addressed why he totally abandoned the bootleg rollout down the stretch? That was an incredibly effective play and for some reason he just quit calling it altogether. I think that abandoning that play also had a negative effect on the running game.

[Keith]

chuck, haven't heard.

This is a Schaub vs. Kubiak thread, so I don't mean to derail it, but don't forget the Pats scored 41 points too... it's not all on the offense. The Pats just seems to be like what the Sonics were to the Rockets in the early 90s... a bad mismatch.

I do wonder if this team will ever break through. I think they'd need homefield to do it most likely. Had Sunday's game been at home against the Ravens, then perhaps we'd be anticipating the Texans playing the AFC Championship game this Sunday (though they'd probably again get carved up by Brady or Peyton Manning).

I think this team is built to win 11-12 games every year and set us up for disappointment annually around mid-January. Since Kubiak, Schaub, and Wade Phillips might be around a few more years, maybe they outlast the careers of Brady and Manning, but not Luck, who seems ready to torment us for the next decade. I could see this team having another 5 more teasing playoff years to have a run like the Oilers in the late-80s to early 90s and still never get past the divisional round.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by popanot

Athleticism? I'd give Yates the advantage.
Arm Strength? Yates.
Mobility? Yates.
Accuracy? Perhaps Schaub, but certainly not by much - if at all.
Pocket Awareness and Quick-Twitch Reflex? Haven't seen enough of Yates, but Schaub's a statue.
Smarts? Kubiak apparently doesn't think Schaub's all that if he can't even let him audible in basic, low-pressure situations.

DEC 2011: Yates (a rookie w/zero camp and practice 1rst team reps) 2W's-3L's / 1-1 in playoffs. Yes, Yates played poorly, but they were in each of the losses and were in the playoff game.
DEC 2012: Schaub (9yr vet w/ALL 1st team reps) 2W's-3L's / 1-1 in playoffs. Schaub played poorly in most of the loses and was awful in the 2 games against the Pats.

First, I don't mean to write Yates off completely. But the little I saw him play in 2012 didn't show me he had a ton of improvement from 2011. And I was actively looking for it. It takes average QBs like Yates and Schaub 3 years or so of experience to be comfortable in this offense, so I'm not ready to give up on Yates, but let's not delude ourselves into thinking he will be ready in 2013.

Comparing December won-loss records doesn't mean much to me in large part because the defense was much better in 2011.

If Yates was under center on Sunday, do the Texans score 28 points? I don't think so. What evidence suggests Yates is capable of leading the offense to score more? If anything Yates is far more turnover prone than Schaub.

[popanot]

Originally Posted by Keith

Comparing December won-loss records doesn't mean much to me in large part because the defense was much better in 2011.

If Yates was under center on Sunday, do the Texans score 28 points? I don't think so. What evidence suggests Yates is capable of leading the offense to score more? If anything Yates is far more turnover prone than Schaub.

Yes, I understand those stats don't mean much. The main point I was trying to make is they both played poorly in DEC crunch time, but Yates did it as a rookie with limited reps, whereas, Schaub did it in full practice/starter mode with 9yrs. experience. Trust me, I'm not saying Yates SHOULD be the starter. However, I do think he and others -whoever that may be- should get a shot. We know what Schaub is at this point, and I still think that someone else who has a full camp and practice with the starters could be just as effective in this offense as Schuab, if not better. Whether that's Yates, Keenum, Matt Barkely, Tyler Wilson, whoever, they need to find that guy ASAP b/c Schaub isn't getting it done.

[barrett]

Yates should not get a shot. He has never shown anything to merit a chance to start. You don't offer a job to a completely unqualified applicant because you don't like the current guy's performance. Did you watch Yates in the preseason this year? John beck was better. If we cut Yates does anyone think another team would give him a chance to start?

There are many cheap veteran FAs we could sign who are way more qualified and talented if we want a QB competition.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by popanot

........... Whether that's Yates, Keenum, Matt Barkely, Tyler Wilson, whoever, they need to find that guy ASAP b/c Schaub isn't getting it done..........

Unfortunately, I think the only way we will be able to see one of these high upside guys, (I think Keenum has more upside than Yates) is probably going to take an injury to Schaub. At that point, you would hope that Mr. Upside could take advantage of the opportunity..... I would like to see Kubes give someone else a shot in-game for a few plays - for example, kinda like the way Kaepernick was introduced into the lineup. Let the backup/upside guy run a special package or two per game..... But I don't think Kubes would be open to that ..... as long as Schaub is healthy, he gets all the snaps - that's just the way Gary rolls.....

Originally Posted by Keith

I think this team is built to win 11-12 games every year and set us up for disappointment annually around mid-January. ..............

I was just thinking about this - what if the Texans go 10-6 next year but still make the playoffs as a 4th or 5th seed? I'm thinkin' a lot of people would find that unacceptable....

What if they go 9-7 and don't make the playoffs? Can you imagine the uproar?

[popanot]

Originally Posted by barrett

There are many cheap veteran FAs we could sign who are way more qualified and talented if we want a QB competition.

Amen! Then lets get one of those guys!! I'm only tossing Yates out there because 1)he's under contract and on our team, 2)at least he's familiar with the system, and 3)Kubiak and Smith hand picked this guy last year. I don't care who it is, really. Bring in someone who can push or compete with Schaub.

[popanot]

Just to be clear, I understand we're likely stuck with Schaub for at least 1 year if not 2 years. I get it. However, that dosen't mean I like it or think that Texans management should just sit on their behinds expecting big things from him. Seattle made a tough decision sitting the guy they just paid millions to. They let another QB compete and it paid off. Obviously Wilson turned out to be special and there's no guarantee the Texans find that guy, but with Kubiak and this thinking they're tied into starting Schaub because of his salary, well then they're paralyzed and we'll likely never find out while they burn through the current talent and chances they do have. If the Texans true goal is to win a SB, they shouldn't give a flying flip if Schaub's a high-priced bench warmer for 2 years.