Official Texans vs. Ravens Game Thread, 12/13/2010

[cadams]

the offense has plenty of problems. sure they are high in a lot of categories,but when they go blank for the first half of every game that is an issue. i am not saying the offense isn't good, but defenses play different when they have double-digit leads.

[barrett]

I don't understand how people can think this will change without a change at Head Coach. I keep hearing explanations that the Offense is ok and the defense is the problem.

On every football team I've ever been a part of as a player or coach, the defensive performance is the responsibility of the head coach (along with offense and special teams and everything else).

If it is a coaching problem with the DC, then Kubiak has had 5 years and two coordinators to get it worked out, and things are worse than they have ever been. If he hired wrong, coached wrong, drafted wrong, supported wrong, and motivated wrong on defense for 5 years, how will he now all of a sudden get it right if given one more chance.

He should be fired. Anything else is accepting failure and mediocrity. Let a defensive coach come in and fix that side of the ball while leaving our offense in place with a Kubiak/Shanahan guy as OC. If Dungy can be talked out of the studio with enough zeroes he is the guy since he is a scheme guy who is used to covering up inadequate parts with system. If not go with Cowher and let him sign whoever he wants and draft whoever he wants to transition to a 3-4.

Either way we need a new Head coach who can improve the defensive side of the ball immediately before we entirely waste the core of offensive talent we have as well as Andre Johnson's entire prime. And we don't need to hope we are guessing right with a young guy. The window will close on our offensive talent if we don't act quickly. How many more years of prime AJ, healthy Schaub, and under contract Foster can we count on? Do we really want to spend those years hoping that Kubiak doing the same thing somehow magically results in different results?

[Arky]

Originally Posted by barrett

I don't understand how people can think this will change without a change at Head Coach. I keep hearing explanations that the Offense is ok and the defense is the problem.

On every football team I've ever been a part of as a player or coach, the defensive performance is the responsibility of the head coach (along with offense and special teams and everything else).

If it is a coaching problem with the DC, then Kubiak has had 5 years and two coordinators to get it worked out, and things are worse than they have ever been. If he hired wrong, coached wrong, drafted wrong, supported wrong, and motivated wrong on defense for 5 years, how will he now all of a sudden get it right if given one more chance.

He should be fired. Anything else is accepting failure and mediocrity. Let a defensive coach come in and fix that side of the ball while leaving our offense in place with a Kubiak/Shanahan guy as OC. If Dungy can be talked out of the studio with enough zeroes he is the guy since he is a scheme guy who is used to covering up inadequate parts with system. If not go with Cowher and let him sign whoever he wants and draft whoever he wants to transition to a 3-4.

Either way we need a new Head coach who can improve the defensive side of the ball immediately before we entirely waste the core of offensive talent we have as well as Andre Johnson's entire prime. And we don't need to hope we are guessing right with a young guy. The window will close on our offensive talent if we don't act quickly. How many more years of prime AJ, healthy Schaub, and under contract Foster can we count on? Do we really want to spend those years hoping that Kubiak doing the same thing somehow magically results in different results?

I think a shakeup is on the way - no doubt about that. Whether they totally clean house or whack a bunch of the defensive coaches I'm OK with it. I really don't strain my brain thinking about it because it is not my decision. If Kubes goes, fine. If he stays, fine. I'll still be rooting for the Texans next year.

As to the bolded, I think you are referring to management, correct? Because I've seen this logic flipped at *the fans* lately on other messageboards as though any fan that is not on the Fire Kubiak bandwagon, is automatically happy with failure and mediocrity. I don't think any fan is happy with 5-8. Hell, I want 'em to go to the SuperBowl every year....

There's not much to defend Kubes with these days. I've seen some very logical arguments about why he should go. About the only positive thing you can say, from what I hear and read, is that the players still believe in him and give 100% effort (even though they keep coming up short).....

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Arky

I think a shakeup is on the way - no doubt about that. Whether they totally clean house or whack a bunch of the defensive coaches I'm OK with it. I really don't strain my brain thinking about it because it is not my decision. If Kubes goes, fine. If he stays, fine. I'll still be rooting for the Texans next year.

As to the bolded, I think you are referring to management, correct? Because I've seen this logic flipped at *the fans* lately on other messageboards as though any fan that is not on the Fire Kubiak bandwagon, is automatically happy with failure and mediocrity. I don't think any fan is happy with 5-8. Hell, I want 'em to go to the SuperBowl every year....

There's not much to defend Kubes with these days. I've seen some very logical arguments about why he should go. About the only positive thing you can say, from what I hear and read, is that the players still believe in him and give 100% effort (even though they keep coming up short).....

yes, I am referring to management. If Kubiak stays, I will not be happy, but I will start next season truly rooting for him to prove me wrong. And I will start week 1 thinking this is the year. That is my right as a fan.

But the ownership, and Rick Smith if he is involved on that level, should not have the option to ignore the writing on the wall like I can as a fan.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by barrett

He should be fired. Anything else is accepting failure and mediocrity.

Preach it, brother.

[coloradodude]

Originally Posted by barrett

Let a defensive coach come in and fix that side of the ball while leaving our offense in place with a Kubiak/Shanahan guy as OC. If Dungy can be talked out of the studio with enough zeroes he is the guy since he is a scheme guy who is used to covering up inadequate parts with system. If not go with Cowher and let him sign whoever he wants and draft whoever he wants to transition to a 3-4.

I like your thinking here about Dungy. Dungy had a bad rap for a while that he couldn't take a team to the SB but once he had a competitive QB, he was fine...but he didn't go to the SB every year still. Take Peyton Manning out of the picture and Dungy may never have gone.

And that's my thoughts on a parallel situation in Schottenheimer.


Dungy or Schottenheimer assure the Texans of a very, very physical team that demands respect. At this point, that's all I want which means 11 wins in a season.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by coloradodude

I like your thinking here about Dungy. Dungy had a bad rap for a while that he couldn't take a team to the SB but once he had a competitive QB, he was fine...but he didn't go to the SB every year still. Take Peyton Manning out of the picture and Dungy may never have gone.

And that's my thoughts on a parallel situation in Schottenheimer.


Dungy or Schottenheimer assure the Texans of a very, very physical team that demands respect. At this point, that's all I want which means 11 wins in a season.

Dungy made TB a great defensive team but they were bad on offense. But they were still playoff good. He then won a superbowl when he took over an Indy team that was already set on offense and just needed someone to scheme their bad defensive players into an average defense. He also had his ego in check enough that he didn't tear a good offense apart just to put his stamp on it. That is the exact job here in Houston.

Interestingly enough, Gruden did a reverse Dungy with Dungy's old team (fixing the broken offense and leaving the D alone). I don't want him here because I think he would start over on offense, or at least try to use the same parts to make a different whole.

Go with a defensive head coach and tell him to scheme this team's players into a top 15 defense, and we are a home field advantage type of team.

[Nconroe]

fwiw, I like Dungy over all the options mentioned . And I too will cheer for Texans next fall no matter how things go. I did like how all the blitzes worked this last game.

[popanot]

I'm willing to take a step backwards offensively next year if it means finally getting the defense fixed and the future years bring playoff caliber teams. With that being said, unless the next coach wants to go strictly to a power game, which hardly ANY NFL team does nowadays, I think there's enough talent here to still have a pretty potent offense - regardless of scheme or coach. Foster is power+speed, AJ is AJ, and I doubt any coach is going to replace Schaub anytime soon. The only major change a new HC would probably make personnel-wise on offense is the interior OL and who would have a problem with that? As for the playbook, come on, these guys are big boys and can learn it (I would hope).

I hear a lot of people saying the offense isn't a problem and doesn't need change. Really? Then why has it struggled all season coming out of the gate? Also, these guys still struggle mightily against aggressive defenses most of the time. If we have the talent, then could it be numbskull coaching?? The big numbers this year are mostly due to this team being so far behind and having to play catch up against defenses that have softened up a bit. Obviously the defense is awful and puts them in a hole, but the offense (at least in the first half of games) and return game hasn't helped much.

Aside from the oddball game-plans and idiotic coaching at times, this offense needs a solid #2 and #3 WR (can we please see Dorin Dickerson?), major improvement at G and C (I've seen enough of Meyers getting tossed around), solid TE play (been 2 years now and we've drafted a gazzilion TEs - goodbye OD, let's see Casey/Graham/Hill), and a decent NFL-worthy backup QB. IMO, Kubiak and Smith have done an awful job filling the gaps around AJ, Schaub and Foster and have left the offense very thin at critical positions. If any of the big 3 went down this year, we would have been screwed. Well, worse than we've already been screwed...

If Kubiak isn't fired this year, then McNair needs to step in and demand he hire a top defensive coordinator. There should be a few available such as; Marvin Lewis, Wade Phillips, potentially Lovie Smith, Singletary, John Fox, Leslie Frazer just to new a few. IMO, he should also pull the reigns on Kubiak having final say on personnel. Not that Smith would be any better, but let GM be GM and the HC be the HC. If Kubiak doesn't like it, well then step down.

[popanot]

Originally Posted by barrett

Interestingly enough, Gruden did a reverse Dungy with Dungy's old team (fixing the broken offense and leaving the D alone). I don't want him here because I think he would start over on offense, or at least try to use the same parts to make a different whole.

Go with a defensive head coach and tell him to scheme this team's players into a top 15 defense, and we are a home field advantage type of team.

First off, in general, I'd be shocked if any of the top candidates (Dungy, Cowher, Gruden) would come here and/or that McNair would pay them what it would take. But responding to your comment, I think it would be better bringing in an offensive guy like Gruden than it would bringing in a defensive guy. I just don't think it would all that difficult for these guys we have on O to be productive in a new/normal offensive scheme. I think they'd be just as effective in a scheme such as Altanta's or with what Tennessee or the NYG (just a few examples) run. Of course, there would need to be some tweaks, but the base is there and I think these guys are smart enough to learn and figure it out. And as I recall, Gruden's offense was very pass-oriented and WC-style.

I think someone like Gruden would recognize the fact the work needs to be done on the defensive side would try to keep the offense as close as possible to what it currently is. My concern with a defense-minded HC would be that he'd be very similar to Kubiak and not have a clue what to do offensively and/or bring in his own "Denver" crew and totally screw things up. Personally, I think Dungy and Gruden would see where the work needs to done and fix that area. Cowher on the other hand may be a cocky enough to change everything and try to duplicate what he had in Pittsburgh, which may work but could also blow up in our face.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that Kubiak needs to go, though.