Official Texans vs. Saints Game Thread, 8/22/2009

[Joshua]

paine and barrett,

I'm curious why you both thought the D line played well last night. I saw a line that was getting gashed right up the middle for 6-8 yards on first down virtually every play. I agree that the linebackers and DBs need to come up and play the run better but your D line needs to make some of those plays themselves and at least, not get pushed around like they did. While I get your comment about the second levels filling in, were both of you envisioning a defense where the primary run stopping would be provided by Demeco and Eugene Wilson? That seems like a recipe for disaster.

[NBT]

It was a Preseason game for NOLA too, yet they operated on all cylinders, and seemingly executed to perfection. The fact that we gave up a big play in all 4 quarters is just not acceptable anytime.

The other thing about being at the game was all the gleeful Saints fans in my section having such a good time at our expense. I'll be some time getting over that. You don't like to be humiliated in your own stadium.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Joshua

paine and barrett,

I'm curious why you both thought the D line played well last night. I saw a line that was getting gashed right up the middle for 6-8 yards on first down virtually every play. I agree that the linebackers and DBs need to come up and play the run better but your D line needs to make some of those plays themselves and at least, not get pushed around like they did. While I get your comment about the second levels filling in, were both of you envisioning a defense where the primary run stopping would be provided by Demeco and Eugene Wilson? That seems like a recipe for disaster.

Almost everyone on this board wanted the DL playing forward, penetrating, and aggressive. They did this last night. The problem is that when you shoot gaps you are shooting yourself out of the play as often as not. That's why not many DL play to shoot the gaps. At least not with both DTs. Yet everyone was excited that Bush promised this style. And from what I saw last night, the DL was in the backfield often against both the run and the pass.

The problem is that the LBs MUST play downhill against the run if your DL is going to penetrate. Specifically they must fill the gaps. They must take on and shed blocks from the FB or pulling OL. Our LBs are not made for this. They are all small and they all struggle when blocked by OL. Especially Demeco. He will struggle if we play like this. He is too small to deal with OL.

We must hope that Travis Johnson is back soon. He is not a great DT, but he is our best in terms of standing his ground in the run game. We must also hope Cushing can get healthy and provide good size at the point of attack. Without both of these things happening we will be in trouble on defense even before teams start exploiting our secondary. Honestly, with our personnel we may be worse off in this scheme than the one we played last year. Our only hope is to play from ahead and pressure the QB in a big way.

So I think for what is being asked of our DL (penetration), they did a fine job last night. I just don't think we have the back 7 to support that kind of defense.

[HPF Bob]

What this told me is how badly the Chiefs must suck. Our defense really got chewed up. Back to the drawing board.

[Big Texas]

here was a passing team that completely abandoned their normal style of play and ran all over us with a sub par running back. I don't care how good a game Bell had, he is not as good as the game he had on us. I know right now that might seem like the words of a sore loser, but I will just sit back and let time tell on that one.

With that said, I do believe that our Dline got some good penetration, however Peyton counter planned for our game plan. It seemed as if he knew we would be aggressive at getting to the QB, so he just punched it right up the gut on us. The intriguing thing to me is that we never counter his counter. We just continued to get punched in kidney.

P.S. There were a few of those running plays where Okam got walked backwards several yards. Hard to believe for a guy his size. The only thing I could think is that he had become worried about the RB getting past him that he started to second guess his bull rush.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by barrett

Almost everyone on this board wanted the DL playing forward, penetrating, and aggressive. They did this last night. The problem is that when you shoot gaps you are shooting yourself out of the play as often as not. That's why not many DL play to shoot the gaps. At least not with both DTs. Yet everyone was excited that Bush promised this style. And from what I saw last night, the DL was in the backfield often against both the run and the pass.

The problem is that the LBs MUST play downhill against the run if your DL is going to penetrate. Specifically they must fill the gaps. They must take on and shed blocks from the FB or pulling OL. Our LBs are not made for this. They are all small and they all struggle when blocked by OL. Especially Demeco. He will struggle if we play like this. He is too small to deal with OL.

I think that sums it up pretty well. How big a miss is Okoye now, especially when you could have had Willis. I liked Okoye in college and I thought he would be better then he is playing so far, but I had Willis higher.

[nunusguy]

I remember Rick Smith saying how happy, even surprised he was that Okoye was still on the Board when the Texans were picking in the #10 slot
back in 2007, and his remarks seemed genuinely sincere. And I dunno, but there was very strong rumors of opportunites to trade the pick.
I doubt that Smith would have drafted Willis even if Okoye wasn't available, given that he played the same position that DeMeco, who had just been named NFL Defensive rookie of the year in 2006, played though with benefit of hindsight today we know we'd much rather have DeMeco at WIL and Willis at MIKE than what we have now, DeMeco & Okoye. Other interesting picks back then would have been Marshawn Lynch & Darrel Revis, just to name a couple.
But along with taking Jacobey with the next pick, that first Draft for Rick Smith is lookin more & more like a real stinker.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

Other interesting picks back then would have been Marshawn Lynch & Darrel Revis, just to name a couple.
But along with taking Jacobey with the next pick, that first Draft for Rick Smith is lookin more & more like a real stinker.

Lynch would not have passed McNair's smell test, he has off the field issue and will miss 3 games this season due to continued off the field issues.

Revis would have been a solid pick and really helped this team.

I will throw in Adam Carriker would have had a year under Weaver and then been the bookend to Mario.

As for the Jocabey pick I thought he was a round or two early, but not many guys from that drafts 3rd round turn out to be very good.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

I remember Rick Smith saying how happy, even surprised he was that Okoye was still on the Board when the Texans were picking in the #10 slot
back in 2007, and his remarks seemed genuinely sincere. And I dunno, but there was very strong rumors of opportunites to trade the pick.
I doubt that Smith would have drafted Willis even if Okoye wasn't available, given that he played the same position that DeMeco, who had just been named NFL Defensive rookie of the year in 2006, played though with benefit of hindsight today we know we'd much rather have DeMeco at WIL and Willis at MIKE than what we have now, DeMeco & Okoye. Other interesting picks back then would have been Marshawn Lynch & Darrel Revis, just to name a couple.
But along with taking Jacobey with the next pick, that first Draft for Rick Smith is lookin more & more like a real stinker.

I don't know that Demeco would make a great WLB even if it was once considered his position. He is best when chasing plays from the middle. He makes lots of tackles and has great leadership skills. All of this makes him good at MLB (and great when protected by his DTs).

If you put him at WLB his lack of speed hurts him. Additionally he is average at best in pass coverage. I think he is in the perfect spot right now. I am not sure another LB would have had a great impact for us.

Now a CB like Revis could have solved some problems. But I am still willing to wait and see what Okoye becomes. He got penetration and rushed the passer well the other night. I just think he will always struggle unless he plays next to a big and strong DT that can cover for him in the run game.

[Nconroe]

I don't think you can blame the loss on one or two guys or one or two plays, it was pretty much the complete defense, starters and all, all positions. Only the third quarter defense was ok. Special teams were not good overall, atleast on the one big return. and offense was not too good once starters were out. so, I'll let it go as a character building, learning experience, during preseason, maybe they were flat for some reason. Hope to see things get better as more starters return from injuries and season continues.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by barrett

But I am still willing to wait and see what Okoye becomes.

Barrett you truly have the “patience of Job”.

[Joshua]

paine and barrett,

Thanks for the response to my questions. While I would be the first to admit that I'm no expert on D line schemes, I guess I had a different idea of what a more aggressive D versus a read-and-react one would look like. While being more aggressive does have the tradeoff that you will run yourself out of plays sometimes, I had never envisioned it as being a scheme where our linemen simply charge blindly upfield regardless of down and distance. Perhaps wrongly, I assumed that there would still be some recognition of the likelihood of pass versus run and the aggressiveness of their charge would be dictated accordingly. Clearly, this is nothing more than guesswork much of the time, but other teams seem to be able to do it. I guess my assumption was wrong, but I assumed that our more agressive approach was one reserved primarily for plays when we anticipated a pass, rather than our default mode in all scenarios.

Also, while I was at the game and haven't had the opportunity to rewatch it. I distinctly remember several running plays where Okoye and Okam just got walked backward completely out of the play. They didn't run past the play because of their aggression and stellar pass rush. Instead, I saw 2 guys who just got worked over at the point of attack. While it is too early to draw any major conclusions, I'm at least slightly concerned and I think our interior line play warrants a close eye. In this regard we're lucky, they won't get a better test than the one coming in Monday night.