Trade Dunta?

[Keith]

Stephanie has a new post on her convo with a Football Outsiders writer, and the writer is not very complimentary of Dunta Robinson.

By our statistics, Dunta Robinson was the Texans' worst corner last year. ...

Teams were successful (picking up 40% of the needed yardage to move the chains on first down, 60% on second down, or 100% on third or fourth down) throwing the ball at him on 56% of their attempts. That placed Robinson 69th amongst corners. He allowed 8.9 yards per attempt -- that's 78th. He only broke up six of the 51 passes thrown at him. ...

http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2...ootball_o.html

More insight there on Jacques Reeves and Fred Bennett, too. Interesting stuff since stats are only part of the picture when it comes to evaluating cornerbacks.

I don't think anyone debates that Robinson was rusty coming back from injury last year. The debate is just how much better he will be in 2009 and beyond.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by Keith

..... Interesting stuff since stats are only part of the picture ......

Best sentence I've read all week. I don't need stats to tell me Dunta kinda sucked last year - I could see it with my eyes. Football Outsiders, KC Joyner, et al, while I respect their work, it is just another viewpoint - just another stat of many. I am a stathead myself but there's only so much that can be gleaned from stats....

Dunta supporters will tell you the team was 7-4 when he played. And that should count for something but it's not like Dunta was out there winning and losing those games by himself. They were also 4-2 when Adibi played so what does that say?

[dadmg]

Originally Posted by Arky

Dunta supporters will tell you the team was 7-4 when he played. And that should count for something but it's not like Dunta was out there winning and losing those games by himself. They were also 4-2 when Adibi played so what does that say?

I'm a Dunta advocate, but I think that's an extremely weak argument. Then again, I roll my eyes whenever I hear how many "wins" a quarterback has. Pretty much the same argument and its a lame one no matter what. You pretty much nailed it: teams win, not individual players.

[nunusguy]

When D-Rob returned last year he was clearly only a shadow of hisself preinjury physically speaking, but nevertheless his rapid recover/rehab and return was remarkable and he was very positive for team chemistry, as usual.
But I dunno how D-Rob can be a positve element in the locker room this year, as by now it should be obvious to all that he's very bitter about the Texans.
I honestly dunno about giving this guy 10 million with whats been happening and given what also has to be significant doubt about his physical condidtion since they have not even seen him jog for months ? Guess we'll find out by midnight Wednesday though ?

[WMH]

Is 4:00 PM, EST a magic time for Dunta to either sign the tender or a long term deal? I have seen/read some things that lead me to believe that, but then I have seen some others that make me go

Anybody got any insight....in English?

[dadmg]

Originally Posted by Keith

Stephanie has a new post on her convo with a Football Outsiders writer, and the writer is not very complimentary of Dunta Robinson.



http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2...ootball_o.html

More insight there on Jacques Reeves and Fred Bennett, too. Interesting stuff since stats are only part of the picture when it comes to evaluating cornerbacks.

I don't think anyone debates that Robinson was rusty coming back from injury last year. The debate is just how much better he will be in 2009 and beyond.

Here's some more numbers from FO, for the corners talked about, for additional context:

Dunta Robinson
2005:
Pass Success Rate: 52% (41st in the league)
Adjusted Passing Yards/Attempt: 7.7 (52nd)

2006:
Pass Success Rate: 55% (20th)
Adjusted Passing Yards/Attempt: 7.0 (30th)

2007:
Pass Success Rate: 57% (9th)
Adjusted Passing Yards/Attempt: 7.7 (51st)

2008:
Pass Success Rate: 44% (69th)
Adjusted Passing Yards/Attempt: 8.9 (78th)

Jacque Reeves
2007 (First year with enough playing time to qualify):
Pass Success Rate: 47% (53rd)
Adjusted Passing Yards/Attempt: 8.1 (56th)

2008:
Pass Success Rate: 54% (28th)
Adjusted Passing Yards/Attempt: 8.0 (57th)


Fred Bennett
2007:
Pass Success Rate: 61% (2nd in the NFL)
Adjusted Passing Yards/Attempt: 4.4 (1st)

2008:
Pass Success Rate: 46% (58th)
Adjusted Passing Yards/Attempt: 7.9 (52nd)

Here's what Ned Macey wrote about the Texans secondary in the 2009 Football Outsiders Almanac:

"Both of Houston’s corners are question marks: one due to health, the other to inconsistency. For the second
consecutive season, franchise cornerback Dunta Robinson missed extensive time due to injuries. Robinson was
never physically right all year, and his performance suffered as a result. Still, Robinson has exceptional cover
skills and a track record of success. If he is fully healthy, he provides the Texans with an outstanding top cornerback.
After 2007, we felt that the Texans would have an outstanding cornerback duo because rookie Fred Bennett
dominated our charting statistics. By his second year, however, it was clear that teams had studied film and
figured out what kind of receivers and routes they could use to attack Bennett. As a result, Bennett was terrible
early on, and Gary Kubiak demoted him to nickelback after just three weeks, although Bennett did improve after
that. The one cornerback who started all 16 games — and is likely to be starting alongside Robinson in 2009
— was free-agent pickup Jacques Reeves, a league-average player who is reasonable on short stuff but gives
up too many big plays deep. The Texans increased their depth at the draft by using a fourth-round pick on New
Mexico’s Glover Quin, a physical corner who could excel in the slot, although some project him to eventually
be a safety. They also added undersized but speedy cornerback Brice McCain out of Utah in the sixth round.
At safety, the Texans have made good use of former New England cornerback Eugene Wilson. Wilson plays it
safe at times, but he is fundamentally sound in coverage. Nick Ferguson, on the other hand, was an unmitigated
disaster, average as a run defender but consistently abused in coverage. The Texans failed to find an impact upgrade
this offseason and will probably go with 2007 fifth-rounder Brandon Harrison as this year’s starter. He’s
better in coverage but could not beat out Ferguson last season. The other possibilities including moving Quin to
safety this season or hoping that seventh-round pick Troy Nolan out of Arizona State is ready to contribute as a
rookie. The Quin move is obviously more intriguing, and if he shifts to safety in training camp, it is clear that
the Texans realize they have a problem."

(since I'm quoting a large chunk of text, I feel obligated to put in a quick plug: the FO Almanac is available in PDF form on the Football Outsiders website for $12. I'm on page 185 of 558 so far: tis interesting stuff, as always)

[Bigtinylittle]

[QUOTE=dadmg;12218]
2008:
The one cornerback who started all 16 games — and is likely to be starting alongside Robinson in 2009
— was free-agent pickup Jacques Reeves, a league-average player who is reasonable on short stuff but gives
up too many big plays deep.

Reeves is probably the corner on the Texans who would benefit most from a stronger pass rush by our front seven. Long routes take a lot of time to develope, and with a strong rush, the time just isn't there.

To me, Robinson's greatest drawback is his height. I have seen taller receivers abuse him even when he had them covered. He's probably not the kind of guy you want covering a fade route to a 6'4" receiver in the end zone. This drawback is only going to get worse over time since the trend seems to be for new receivers into the league being taller and taller.

[Mike]

The Ravens locked up Suggs. Two more hours to get a deal done, and we all know that a deal with Dunta is not happening, not matter how much us eternal optomists have held out any hope.

[barrett]

This deadline just means we don't sign him to a long term deal this year. It does not affect the franchise tag in any way. He still has no choice but to sign the tender or not get paid.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by WMH

Is 4:00 PM, EST a magic time for Dunta to either sign the tender or a long term deal?

It's a deadline to sign a long-term deal. Once it passes, both sides will have to wait until after the season to reopen long-term contract negotiations.

Originally Posted by Mike

The Ravens locked up Suggs. Two more hours to get a deal done, and we all know that a deal with Dunta is not happening, not matter how much us eternal optomists have held out any hope.

Atogwe is signing his tender.

Dunta is the last of the F-tagged mohicans...

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by Keith

It's a deadline to sign a long-term deal. Once it passes, both sides will have to wait until after the season to reopen long-term contract negotiations.


Atogwe is signing his tender.

Dunta is the last of the F-tagged mohicans...

Like Lance Z says in his latest column, good bye Dunta. One and done is what we should expect.

That is why I say trade the guy. Let him go.

[WMH]

Can they negotiate/sign an extension during the season?

[Keith]

Originally Posted by WMH

Can they negotiate/sign an extension during the season?

Nope.

Originally Posted by painekiller

Like Lance Z says in his latest column, good bye Dunta. One and done is what we should expect.

That is why I say trade the guy. Let him go.

No, no, no. He plays 2009 with the Texans as a F-tag. Then tag his butt again next February THEN trade him. That is the proper order.

And it seems EVERYONE is basing their dislike of Dunta based on his 2008 performance. Here's the deal - he returned ahead of schedule from devastating injurIES... proving his heart and desire for the team we love, and that he was at least serviceable (i.e. better than Bennett, better than Molden, better than Petey) means he is worth using the f-tag on this season to see if he can return to his 2007 form (which imo was BETTER than his rookie season).

I am more convinced than ever that the best option for all as it stands right now is for Dunta to sign his tender this year and for him to report to camp on time.