Trade Dunta?

[barrett]

Originally Posted by painekiller

Nice thought but you can not trade a player who is not under contract. And Dunta will not be under contract after the season is over. In fact right now the team can not discuss trades for Dunta until he signs his offer sheet.

Are you serious? We will franchise Dunta next year and he will be in the exact same position, so having him under contract is no issue.

As for talking to other teams now, we don't have to. His agent does. They look for a team willing to re-work his deal, and then come to us when they find one (exactly like we tried with Orlando Pace). Then terms of a trade are worked out. He signs his contract with us, is traded, and signs the new extension with his new team. It is very simple and fairly common.

Guys get traded who are franchised all the time, and many of them are yet to sign their offer sheet.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by barrett

Are you serious? We will franchise Dunta next year and he will be in the exact same position, so having him under contract is no issue.

As for talking to other teams now, we don't have to. His agent does. They look for a team willing to re-work his deal, and then come to us when they find one (exactly like we tried with Orlando Pace). Then terms of a trade are worked out. He signs his contract with us, is traded, and signs the new extension with his new team. It is very simple and fairly common.

Guys get traded who are franchised all the time, and many of them are yet to sign their offer sheet.

OK then, if that's how it works what if any implications are there of him signing vs not signing the Texans' tender offer on or before 7/15/'09 ?
BTW I don't see D-Rob fetching more than a second rounder at this time without a real "stress-test" this Fall ?

[papabear]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

BTW I don't see D-Rob fetching more than a second rounder at this time without a real "stress-test" this Fall ?

I don't see him getting more than a second rounder anyway....It would have been tough to get a second for him pre-injury. Not that he's a bad player, but teams don't give up early draft picks that easily...and casserly isn't currently a GM anywhere.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

OK then, if that's how it works what if any implications are there of him signing vs not signing the Texans' tender offer on or before 7/15/'09 ?
BTW I don't see D-Rob fetching more than a second rounder at this time without a real "stress-test" this Fall ?

I believe 7/15 is just his last chance to sign an extension with the Texans. After that he can only sign his tender. But that doesn't affect the new deal that would have to come with any team that trades for him.

That is what people are forgetting who want to trade him. He is only going to agree to a trade if the team he is going to is willing to give him the new deal he is looking for. And nobody will trade for him without a new deal worked out ahead of time. So it's not like we can just unload him for a draft pick. We have to find a team willing to pay him what he wants AND give us what we want. It's not likely to happen.

[dadmg]

Originally Posted by barrett

Are you serious? We will franchise Dunta next year and he will be in the exact same position, so having him under contract is no issue.

I wouldn't be so certain of that. More than a few recent franchisees have been able to hold out on signing their franchise tender until the team made a contractual agreement not to franchise them again the following year. At this point, its not a certainty that franchising him again would be an option.

[superbowlbound]

Originally Posted by dadmg

I wouldn't be so certain of that. More than a few recent franchisees have been able to hold out on signing their franchise tender until the team made a contractual agreement not to franchise them again the following year. At this point, its not a certainty that franchising him again would be an option.

true, but most of them have had that agreement based on performance clauses, ie albert haynesworth's trip to the probowl. I would gladly give dunta that same stipulation, as I don't think he'll get there, at least not this season.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by dadmg

I wouldn't be so certain of that. More than a few recent franchisees have been able to hold out on signing their franchise tender until the team made a contractual agreement not to franchise them again the following year. At this point, its not a certainty that franchising him again would be an option.

But in all those cases the team needed the player on the field more than the player needed it. In essence it was a one year team rental.

In Dunta's case I don't think they applied the tag because they needed to keep him. They applied it because they were unwilling to let him walk in FA with no recompense. Smith already showed he is willing to upset Dunta and use the tag. I'd be shocked if their is a deal to not use it again. Right now we have all the leverage. We seem willing to go forward with him unsigned but tagged. If he doesn't play he hurts himself far more than he hurts us.

He will almost certainly sign with us and play this year at some point. If there was a team willing to give him a new deal and trade for him, then it would have happened already.

[edo783]

Dunta has been offered a F-tag, but that means zip if he doesn't sign it. We can't trade him until he does and that would be the same next year as well. So, if he doesn't sign it until the start of the season, are you willing to pay a guy 9.9 million who is coming off a bad injury, who showed last year he was horrible in coverage and when he does come back it would be at least game 3-4 before he is up to speed and able to play the new defense? IMO, it was way over paying him at 9.9 million when he was going to play a 16 game schedule AFTER a TC of learning and getting back into football shape, but to pay what is likely a VERY marginal CB 9.9 million for 2/3 - 3/4 of a season is ridiculous. IMO, if two weeks before the start of the season he hasn't signed, pull the F-tag and save the money rather than just flushing it down the drain on someone who is yet to show he is back from injury and likely would be a divisive factor in the locker room. Just save the money and find some other players that could provide some depth elsewhere.

[NBT]

So let's assume Dunta doesn't sign his F-tagged contract? He won't get paid will he? And what is with the 7-15 deadline, will he be able to sign with some other team after that, or do we still have his rights?

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by NBT

So let's assume Dunta doesn't sign his F-tagged contract? He won't get paid will he? And what is with the 7-15 deadline, will he be able to sign with some other team after that, or do we still have his rights?

IIRC if we pull the offer, then he is an unrestricted FA. Funny thing is in the middle of training camp not to many teams have $9M of cap money available.

I am with edo, but i also want to add the guys who are here have to be doing the job well enough that we would not miss Dunta. It is stupid to cut a player who is better then the ones you are starting.

[superbowlbound]

While I agree that 9.9 mil for a crappy version of dunta is ridiculous, I'd much rather pay him than just let him walk because he pitched a fit. This team has let every single player that wanted to be elsewhere just go, as a gesture of goodwill in hopes of luring free agents. Well how has that worked out?

Besides, I think Dunta has to know that it's not in his best interest to hold out too too long. I'm thinking he shows up by the second week of preseason. He's gotta be looking at this season as a chance to audition for the rest of the league, and regardless of how much of the old scheme Bush is keeping, there will undoubtedly be new wrinkles that he'll have to learn, and a month of getting burned worse than usual certainly won't help him get paid.

Also, I've grown so tired of this situation, and have soured on Dunta so much, that I didn't even say anything to him when I saw him at the gas station a couple days ago. Seeing him actually made me angry and a little physically sick. I found that strange. He used to be my favorite.

[dadmg]

Originally Posted by NBT

So let's assume Dunta doesn't sign his F-tagged contract? He won't get paid will he? And what is with the 7-15 deadline, will he be able to sign with some other team after that, or do we still have his rights?

The July 15 deadline is just to sign franchised players to new contracts - after that point no new deals can be negotiated until the end of the season. The franchise tender is still out there and will remain so.

[bckey]

Originally Posted by dadmg

The franchise tender is still out there and will remain so.

Unless the Texans decide to take it off the table. They may think that it might not be worth almost 10 million for a guy coming off injury. If he skips all of training camp and possibly pre-season he wouldn't even be ready for the first couple of regular season games. I wouldn't blame the Texans if they pull the franchise tag off the table after the 15th.