Owen Daniels Contract Negotiations

[barrett]

Keith, I agree with a lot of this. It definitely is speculation what anyone would do. I also agree that statistically we may not get much more out of any other top TE. The only thing I disagree on is that we won't get much less from any other TE not making top money.

I feel like Daniels is a very smart player who takes advantage of LB coverage and picks up lots of catches and first downs in the middle of the field. This is an important contribution and helped make our offense what it was. But when things tightened up on the goalline, he did not have the ability to either create space, or take the ball from the defender.

To me this is what the top 2-3 TEs are paid for. You have a bunch of guys paid similarly who can block a little and catch the football. Daniels should be paid at the top end of that range. Then you have a few guys paid a premium because they make their living catching TDs. Daniels cannot reasonably ask for premium money until he shows he is a redzone threat.

[papabear]

Originally Posted by barrett

I feel like Daniels is a very smart player who takes advantage of LB coverage and picks up lots of catches and first downs in the middle of the field. This is an important contribution and helped make our offense what it was. But when things tightened up on the goalline, he did not have the ability to either create space, or take the ball from the defender.

To me this is what the top 2-3 TEs are paid for. You have a bunch of guys paid similarly who can block a little and catch the football. Daniels should be paid at the top end of that range. Then you have a few guys paid a premium because they make their living catching TDs. Daniels cannot reasonably ask for premium money until he shows he is a redzone threat.

This is more of a general complaint than anything else...and more of an observation really. It's so hard to judge a players effectiveness in a certain situation as a fan because we have no way of knowing how the coaches are using them. Sure, Kubes might call for a pass near the goal line, but Daniels could be the third or fourth option on many of those plays.

I think the goal line problems start and stop with the inability to run the ball in that area of the field. Plain and simple teams weren't scared of our short yardage running game and that lets them get into pass coverage sooner. When your on a short field like that there is much less ground for the defense to cover making it easier to clog up the throwing lanes. Remember none of our WR's were very effective in redzone situations either, including AJ...if they were then we wouldn't have been third in offense, but 17th in scoring (well that plus turnovers). Scoring in the redzone was a team problem.

I haven't watched all the film to say one way or the other whether or not Owen was getting open in those situations so I can't comment on that. I'm just saying that it was a problem for our whole team and without knowing the specifics of the play calls it's hard to say one way or the other if OD was the one failing to get it done. I do know that the redzone is usually a good time to use the TE, and I've wondered why we don't use them more in that situation. Owen could definitely be part of the problem, but I think it's something that goes deeper than just one guy.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by papabear

I'm just saying that it was a problem for our whole team and without knowing the specifics of the play calls it's hard to say one way or the other if OD was the one failing to get it done.

Actually, we can say OD is not getting it done. Maybe he doesn't get the opportunities, maybe it's not his fault, but we're not talking about who is to blame for our redzone struggles. We are talking about the fact that you get paid for performance, and OD did not perform in the redzone (even if it wasn't his fault).

Originally Posted by papabear

I do know that the redzone is usually a good time to use the TE, and I've wondered why we don't use them more in that situation. Owen could definitely be part of the problem, but I think it's something that goes deeper than just one guy.

I do agree that we can't blame it all on him, as it is definitely a whole team problem. But he is clearly not part of the solution. So, I just don't think we need to pay him like he's a redzone solution.

[papabear]

Originally Posted by barrett

Actually, we can say OD is not getting it done. Maybe he doesn't get the opportunities, maybe it's not his fault, but we're not talking about who is to blame for our redzone struggles. We are talking about the fact that you get paid for performance, and OD did not perform in the redzone (even if it wasn't his fault).

Fair enough in regards to pay. I don't think that will hold much weight at the bargaining table because his overall numbers were so good. You do have a point though.

I do agree that we can't blame it all on him, as it is definitely a whole team problem. But he is clearly not part of the solution. So, I just don't think we need to pay him like he's a redzone solution.

I don't think he's being asked to be paid as a red zone solution. He's asked to be paid comparable to what other top TE's are earning. He's clearly has the stats to make that claim even without the big TD numbers.

I think the solution is the running game. I think one area where you can lay some of the blame on Owen is the running game. The TE can be crucial to the running game and blocking isn't his best attribute. I think he's gotten MUCH better in that area, but he will likely never be a dominant run blocker. In that sense Owen is part of the problem...although I would put more of the blame on the interior of the line with Myers and Briesel IMO.

speaking of, I've got really high hopes for Caldwell. I think he's got a chance to give us a little more meat in the short yardage game, while still being able to handle the zone scheme.

I just have a hard time believing that Owen can be a top 5 (top 10 if that makes you happier) TE in the league for over 80 yards, but be a waste of space in the last 20. I would hate for the Texans to sign him to a deal that puts them in a position to not have the opportunity to sign another player later. Being able to make the tough calls on productive players in regards to how much salary is too much is what turns good teams into dynasties. I'm just not confident enough if our front office/coaching staff that we can cast off productive players and consistently find cheaper options who don't cause a drop in production...yet.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by papabear

Fair enough in regards to pay. I don't think that will hold much weight at the bargaining table because his overall numbers were so good. You do have a point though.



I don't think he's being asked to be paid as a red zone solution. He's asked to be paid comparable to what other top TE's are earning. He's clearly has the stats to make that claim even without the big TD numbers.

I think the solution is the running game. I think one area where you can lay some of the blame on Owen is the running game. The TE can be crucial to the running game and blocking isn't his best attribute. I think he's gotten MUCH better in that area, but he will likely never be a dominant run blocker. In that sense Owen is part of the problem...although I would put more of the blame on the interior of the line with Myers and Briesel IMO.

speaking of, I've got really high hopes for Caldwell. I think he's got a chance to give us a little more meat in the short yardage game, while still being able to handle the zone scheme.

I just have a hard time believing that Owen can be a top 5 (top 10 if that makes you happier) TE in the league for over 80 yards, but be a waste of space in the last 20. I would hate for the Texans to sign him to a deal that puts them in a position to not have the opportunity to sign another player later. Being able to make the tough calls on productive players in regards to how much salary is too much is what turns good teams into dynasties. I'm just not confident enough if our front office/coaching staff that we can cast off productive players and consistently find cheaper options who don't cause a drop in production...yet.

I agree that the interior line is most at fault in the redzone. Then probably our RB situation, and OD only after that.

While I still feel I wouldn't pay him huge, this is probably a case of offseason over-analysis as much as anything.