DT Development

[dadmg]

After reading Kubiak's recent comments about the importance of Amobi Okoye stepping up on defense, I finally became motivated to do some research I'd had kicking around in my head for awhile now. Based on casual observation, I've always felt like DT was a position that tends to take awhile to develop. It seems like every year some of the top players are well into their 30s. n the last five years, my mind thinks of guys like Pat Williams, Ted Washington, Sam Adams and many of these guys don't seem to hit their peak until their 30s. But I've never seen any research on this supposed trend so today I decided to do a little informal work.

Big disclaimer up front: the only statistic I used to measure success was Pro Bowl selections. I realize there are many shortfalls to using this award as a measurement of success, but given the lack of solid statistics for measuring DT success (especially for the big space-eater types) I felt it was the best measure. The two most notable shortfalls with using Pro Bowls are that its a popularity-based award, so there is a tendency to overvalue players based on past performance (or undervalue them on lack of past notoriety) and to overvalue sack totals over run-stuffing. These considerations might be part of the reason that some of the DTs that make their first Pro Bowl later in their careers tend to be more towards the Pat Williams/Ted Kennedy mold than the Tommie Harris mold. If you want to keep these things in mind while reading my results and want to adjust accordingly, I don't blame you.

What I Did: I wanted to determine how long it takes DTs to develop into Pro Bowl caliber players and what should be the expected prime of their careers. Using ProFootballReference.com as a resource, I profiled every player to reach the Pro Bowl between 1989-2008 (originally I just researched 1999-2008, but later decided to expand my list to 20 years to see if much changed). For each player, I recorded the first year of their career that they reached the Pro Bowl, the age they were when they first reached the Pro Bowl, the amount of Pro Bowls they achieved and their Pro Bowl span (years from their first to last Pro Bowl.) The reason for including span was that I felt like if a player achieved the Pro Bowl in 5 years in an 8 year span its likely (although not always true) that they were playing at a pro bowl caliber level for the entire span. Maybe one year they didn't make it because injuries limited their numbers or because there were lots of good candidates in one year and some people got squeezed out despite playing just as well as before.

I also profiled each season, determining how old the average Pro Bowler was, what season of their career they were in and who were the youngest and oldest Pro Bowlers.

The Results: Parts of my research really surprised me, while other parts confirmed some of my gut instincts. There were, as I realized, more than a few players who didn't develop until later in their careers. On the other hand, I didn't realize how many players emerged as Pro Bowlers in their 2nd or 3rd years.

The mean age for a DT's first appearance in the Pro Bowl in the past 20 years was 25.73 years old, or 4.25 seasons of experience. The average Pro Bowler achieved 2.93 Pro Bowls and had a Pro Bowl span of 3.55 seasons. The median and mode ages for first Pro Bowl also came out at 4 seasons and 26 years old. From this, we can say that the prime of the average Pro Bowl DT's career is probably between 26-30.

Looking at the Pro Bowl performers by season, in any given year, the average Pro Bowler was 4.69 years into their career and 27.2 years old. In recent years, these numbers have been skewing older, although some of that might be because of Pat Williams. In the last five years, the average age/years have been:

2004 - 4.5 years in the league, 26.83 years old
2005 - 5 years experience, 27.43 years old
2006 - 5.14 years experience, 28.00 years old
2007 - 5.38 years experience, 28.13 years old
2008 - 6.5 years experience, 29.33 years old

This year's class of Pro Bowl DTs was one the oldest group of Pro Bowlers by several measures in the last 20 years. As I mentioned, part of that was Pat Williams. Aside from the last three years in which Pat Williams was the oldest Pro Bowl DT at 34, 35 and 36, there were only two DTs to make the Pro Bowl at an age of over 31 years old: Ted Washington, who went to the Pro Bowl at 32 and 33 years old in 2001-02 and John Randle who went to the Pro Bowl in 2001 at 34 years old. Not surprisingly, that 2001 class with Randle and Washington is the only class with an average experience higher than this year's class (the average that year was 7 years in the league.)

That said, it wasn't just Williams skewing this year's class. Jay Ratliff and Albert Haynesworth were the youngest members of this class at 27 years old. There was only one other class with the youngest member over 25 years old, when Trevor Pryce was the youngest member of the 2001 class at 26 (he was also the youngest member in 2000 at 25.) The six member of this year's DT Pro Bowl class were Ratliff (27, 1st appearance), Haynesworth (27, 2nd), Kevin Williams (28, 4th), Shaun Rogers (29, 3rd), Kris Jenkins (29, 4th), and Pat Williams (36, 3rd).

What Might this Mean for the Texans?
As you all know, next year's projected starters are Amobi Okoye and Travis Johnson.

The young Okoye will be 22 by the start of training camp and entering his third season in the league. His age is obviously much younger than the projected prime age I mentioned earlier of 26-30 and if he really takes that long to develop, he likely won't last with the Texans. Entering his third year in the league, Okoye is also below the average first Pro Bowl year, which occurs most in Pro Bowler's fourth year in the league.

Looking on the positive side, 12 of the 28 DTs to make the Pro Bowl in the last 10 years did so by their third season in the league, so it's not out of the question. That number goes up to 19 of 28 by the end of year four. However, only two of those players were 22 or younger at the time of their first Pro Bowl appearance, Tommie Harris and Darrell Russell. So the big question with Okoye will be which factor will matter more: the development of his body or his experience in the league? By either factor he's considerably more likely to breakout in 2010 than 2009, but the likelihood of an '09 breakthrough is considerably more likely if the big factor is experience. Arguably the player most comparable to Okoye to make the Pro Bowl is Eric Swann who achieved his first Pro Bowl in his fifth year at age 25.

I'm sure most Texans fans have given up on former first round pick Travis Johnson as a potential Pro Bowler and they're probably right. On the positive side, though, Johnson should be entering the prime of his career right now as he's 27 and entering his fifth year in the league. Sure that prime likely won't include Pro Bowl caliber play, but if he can continue to improve into a solid starter, that could certainly help the Texans. And, unlike Okoye, the research tends to suggest that his time is now.

[dadmg]

Here is the raw data in what will likely look pretty messy in post form. If anyone wants to see my excel sheets, send me a PM with your email address and I'll pass 'em along.

Player 1st PB Year 1st PB Age Pro Bowls Pro Bowl Span
Albert Haynesworth 6 26 2 2
Kevin Williams 2 24 4 5
Tommie Harris 2 22 3 3
Pat Williams 10 34 3 3
Shaun Rogers 4 25 3 5
Jay Ratliff 4 27 1 1
Kris Jenkins 2 23 4 7
Casey Hampton 3 26 4 5
Vince Wilfork 4 26 1 1
Jamal Williams 8 29 3 3
Darnell Dockett 4 26 1 1
John Henderson 3 25 2 3
Rod Coleman 7 29 1 1
Marcus Stroud 3 25 3 3
La'Roi Glover 5 26 6 6
Sam Adams 7 27 3 5
Corey Simon 4 26 1 1
Warren Sapp 3 25 7 7
Richard Seymour 2 23 5 5
Tim Bowens 5 25 2 5
Bryant Young 3 24 4 7
Gary Walker 7 28 2 2
Ted Washington 7 29 4 5
Trevor Pryce 3 24 4 4
John Randle 4 26 7 9
Luther Ellis 5 26 2 2
Cortez Kennedy 2 23 8 9
Darrell Russell 2 22 2 2
Leon Lett 4 26 2 5
Joel Steed 6 28 1 1
Chester McGlockton 3 25 4 4
Dana Stubblefield 2 24 3 4
Eric Swann 5 25 2 2
Michael Dean Perry 2 24 6 8
Dan Saleaumua 9 31 1 1
Ray Childress 4 26 5 6
Sean Gilbert 2 23 1 1
Russell Maryland 3 24 1 1
Henry Thomas 5 26 2 2
Jerry Ball 3 25 3 3
Jerome Brown 4 25 2 2
Erik Howard 5 26 1 1
Greg Kragen 5 27 1 1
Keith Millard 4 26 2 2
Mean 4.25 25.72727273 2.931818182 3.545454545
Median 4 26
Mode 4 26

Year Avg Year Avg Age Youngest Oldest
1989 2.75 25.75 24 Michael Dean Perry 27 Greg Kragen/Keith Millard
1990 3.40 26.00 25 Michael Dean Perry/Jerome Brown 28 Ray Childress
1991 3.66 26.17 23 Cortez Kennedy 29 Ray Childress
1992 4.67 27.00 24 Cortez Kennedy 30 Ray Childress
1993 3.66 26.17 23 Sean Gilbert 31 Ray Childress
1994 3.33 26.17 24 Dana Stubblefield 29 Michael Dean Perry
1995 4.50 27.00 25 Dana Stubblefield/Eric Swann 31 Dan Saleaumua
1996 5.17 27.50 24 Bryant Young 31 Michael Dean Perry
1997 4.83 27.83 25 Warren Sapp 30 John Randle
1998 5.00 27.17 22 Darrell Russell 30 Ted Washington/Leon Lett/Cortez Kennedy
1999 4.33 26.33 23 Darrell Russell 31 Cortez Kennedy
2000 5.33 27.50 25 Trevor Pryce 32 Ted Washington
2001 7.00 29.25 26 Trevor Pryce 34 John Randle
2002 6.00 28.00 23 Kris Jenkins 30 Warren Sapp/Bryant Young
2003 3.70 26.40 24 Kris Jenkins/Richard Seymour 31 Warren Sapp
2004 4.50 26.83 24 Kevin Williams 31 Sam Adams
2005 5.00 27.43 22 Tommie Harris 31 La'Roi Glover
2006 5.14 28.00 23 Tommie Harris 34 Pat Williams
2007 5.38 28.13 24 Tommie Harris 35 Pat Williams
2008 6.50 29.33 27 Jay Ratliff/Albert Haynesworth 36 Pat Williams
4.69 27.20

[nunusguy]

Good stuff DadMG, you put some work into that.
I've written off TJ as an ordinary NFL DLineman at best but am still hopeful
about Okoye, but not necessarily optimistic. I dunno, we'll see how
new DC Bush & DLine coach Kollar might make either or maybe both of these guys more productive in '09 ?
So anyway, what the hecks goin' on up in Spearfish these days ?

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by dadmg

The mean age for a DT's first appearance in the Pro Bowl in the past 20 years was 25.73 years old, or 4.25 seasons of experience. The median and mode ages for first Pro Bowl also came out at 4 seasons and 26 years old. From this, we can say that the prime of the average Pro Bowl DT's career is probably between 26-30.



The young Okoye will be 22 by the start of training camp and entering his third season in the league. His age is obviously much younger than the projected prime age I mentioned earlier of 26-30 and if he really takes that long to develop, he likely won't last with the Texans.

So the big question with Okoye will be which factor will matter more: the development of his body or his experience in the league? By either factor he's considerably more likely to breakout in 2010 than 2009, but the likelihood of an '09 breakthrough is considerably more likely if the big factor is experience.

When the Texans drafted Okoye, I have to imagine that their best case scenario was that he'd develop quickly and have a longer span of "prime years" thus making him a bargain. However, realistically speaking it would only make sense to see this thing through to its natural conclusion. He has 4 more years before he becomes the magical age of 26 and he'll have 6 years of experience under his belt in order to build upon. Therefore, I wouldn't "give up" on this guy until he was 27 years old. Hopefully, he'll play at a pro-bowl level before that, but if not, it wouldn't make sense to cut bait before then.

As for Travis Johnson, you said it, his time is Now.

[Nconroe]

Excellent research DadMG. Maybe that's why it takes 3 years to judge a draft accurately. I am wondering if perhaps overall defense team ranking fits in there somehow as well. And maybe education level/intelligence?

Looking at 5 DT on Texans roster now
name, ht, wt, yrs exp, age
Sean Cody, 6-4, 310, 5, 26
Frank Okam, 6-5, 342, 1, 23
DelJuan Robinson. 6-3, 296, 2, 24
Amobi Okoye, 6-2, 302, 2, 21
Travis Johnson, 6-3, 303, 4, 26

So, if theory correct , Sean Cody and Travis Johnson ought to be our best starters this year as they are just entering their prime. The other guys are too young and inexperienced for two more years. At any rate we have a very young Dline and if we draft another we will be even younger.

[jppaul]

Well done Dadmg. You put alot of research into that and it is appreciated.

To me this confirms several things: first that DTs take 3 years to develop, and second, that it takes another year or two after that for the league to recognize it (demeco got recognized in his second year and so have a litany of players who put up strong pro bowl caliber performances at more stand out postions) which is why it seems the pro bowl average time between draft and pro bowl is about 5 years.

[papabear]

I feel like last year gave us a pretty good idea of what Travis Johnson is. I'm not saying he can't continue to improve, but he's close to what he's going to be IMO. I see him as an average player...good rotation guy, borderline starter type. You hope for more from a first round pick, but in reality that's not all that bad. There are many other more monumental ways to fail with a first round guy. Travis was an unpopular draft pick who had some struggles early. Some fans made up their mind on him then, and nothing short of consecutive pro-bowls would change their minds.

that was my only problem with the Okoye pick...and it wasn't really a problem as much as I knew it was something that was going to annoy me down the road. Everyone talked about patience with a rookie DT, especially one as young as he was...and then threw it out the window after a season and a half.

I've always said that I think DT takes the longest for a player to develop and it's nice to see someone actually try and back it up.

[da Bull]

dadmg,

Of the older players making the pro bowl at first glance they appear to be the "water buffalo" type (Sam Adams) vs. the quicker "gap shooters". Haynesworth, although a very large man appears to be more of a "gap shooter". In your opinion (having researched the position) which type makes up the majority of the data, if either?

[dadmg]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

Good stuff DadMG, you put some work into that.

Thank you.

I've written off TJ as an ordinary NFL DLineman at best but am still hopeful
about Okoye, but not necessarily optimistic. I dunno, we'll see how
new DC Bush & DLine coach Kollar might make either or maybe both of these guys more productive in '09 ?

So anyway, what the hecks goin' on up in Spearfish these days ?

Just having fun digging ourselves out of blizzard after blizzard. We're coming off three blizzards in an 18 day period. The shitty apartment I share with my brother has a tendency to flood after blizzards due to foundational issues so right now spring is associated with the smell of damp carpet. But, otherwise, good

[dadmg]

Originally Posted by Roy P

When the Texans drafted Okoye, I have to imagine that their best case scenario was that he'd develop quickly and have a longer span of "prime years" thus making him a bargain. However, realistically speaking it would only make sense to see this thing through to its natural conclusion. He has 4 more years before he becomes the magical age of 26 and he'll have 6 years of experience under his belt in order to build upon. Therefore, I wouldn't "give up" on this guy until he was 27 years old. Hopefully, he'll play at a pro-bowl level before that, but if not, it wouldn't make sense to cut bait before then.

As for Travis Johnson, you said it, his time is Now.

I agree with your assessment of the Texans in part taking Okoye because of a possibility of a longer prime and I also agree with you that anyone who drafts a player like Okoye should be willing to stick it out until they get to the payoff barring complete bustitude (if he's on the bench two years from now, I can understand reluctance to see him through). I just don't know whether many GMs would stick by a player to his second contract if he hadn't lived up to expectations. Sometimes even skilled talent evaluators give up on "busts" too early because they're a reminder of failure to their fans. AJ Smith's decision to give up on Drew Brees and draft Phillip Rivers struck me at the time as that type of decision and, for once, I turned out to be right.

All that said, while it probably didn't come through in this thread, I am quite optimistic for Okoye's future. I'm just not sure the future is now yet, although as a fan I desperately hope it is because a breakout year from Okoye would have a huge impact on this D.

[dadmg]

Originally Posted by Nconroe

Excellent research DadMG. Maybe that's why it takes 3 years to judge a draft accurately. I am wondering if perhaps overall defense team ranking fits in there somehow as well. And maybe education level/intelligence?

Oh, I'm sure those (and other factors such as coaching, college experience) play heavily into rate of development. And, at the very least, overall defense influences the metric by which I was judging these players, Pro Bowl appearances. As I'm sure you've noticed, often times one of the top defenses will have a slew of players make the Pro Bowl all at once.

Looking at 5 DT on Texans roster now
name, ht, wt, yrs exp, age
Sean Cody, 6-4, 310, 5, 26
Frank Okam, 6-5, 342, 1, 23
DelJuan Robinson. 6-3, 296, 2, 24
Amobi Okoye, 6-2, 302, 2, 21
Travis Johnson, 6-3, 303, 4, 26

So, if theory correct , Sean Cody and Travis Johnson ought to be our best starters this year as they are just entering their prime. The other guys are too young and inexperienced for two more years. At any rate we have a very young Dline and if we draft another we will be even younger.

I don't think this theory holds that Cody and Johnson are necessarily the best players at the position because they're in their theoretical primes. It just says that right now, and for the next few years, we are likely seeing the best those two players will have to offer. That best might not be as good as the non-prime performance of another player. For instance, Casey Hampton will be 32 this coming year, which is out of those theoretical prime years but I'm sure anyone here would plug him into the lineup in a heartbeat. On the other end of the spectrum, for all we know Okoye could emerge as a better option than either Cody or Johnson whether he's actually hitting his prime or not. If Okoye emerges as a solid starter and Cody doesn't, then it doesn't matter whether Okoye's hit his prime or not because below prime for him might be better than Cody's prime.

[dadmg]

Originally Posted by da Bull

dadmg,

Of the older players making the pro bowl at first glance they appear to be the "water buffalo" type (Sam Adams) vs. the quicker "gap shooters". Haynesworth, although a very large man appears to be more of a "gap shooter". In your opinion (having researched the position) which type makes up the majority of the data, if either?

I was going to continue my research in this exact direction but two things stymied me. One was that its more difficult to quantifiably separate the two groups then I'd guessed. I was going to do it by a weight cutoff, but that was stymied by team practices. According to official listed weight, Pat Williams (316) weighs only five more pounds than teammate Kevin Williams (311). As anyone with eyeballs knows, there's no way on this earth that is true. Kevin Williams, at one point in his career, was so much a gap-shooting type that he played more often at DE. While he's more of a tweener between the groups now, I Pat and Kevin are not the same type of DT by any stretch of the imagination. I also considered sacks as a measure but some DTs do both or switch roles depending on the year and the scheme. The second thing that ended my pursuit of that line of research was that I realized I'd already done far too much procrastinating for the day and needed to get some vital homework done

IMO, I think that the gap shooters develop quicker. The adjustment from the college game to the pro game isn't that great if you're role on defense is to charge indiscriminately up field. I think it takes awhile longer to figure out how to control gaps. Then again, it could just be that we recognize the gap shooters success sooner because they rack up the big numbers that stand out even if we didn't see a game and the big lugs don't. By most Buffalo fans accounts, Pat Williams was a Pro Bowl DT throughout a good portion of his tenure with the team but wasn't recognized as such until he became the key cog in a Minnesota D that did an absurd job of stopping the run the last few years.

[da Bull]

dadmg,

Thanks for the effort. Even if you just applied your best guess to the data base it would be interesting to see how it falls out.

I have to agree with you that "shooting the gaps" is easier for the younger players and "holding a gap" effectively comes with experience. But it helps to have three or four cheese burgers under your belt.

Homework.......Black Hills State Teachers College?

[Nconroe]

well, as we know, we had no pro bowl performances at DT past few years, hope the extra year experience and new coaches improve the performance

some stats
so the four pro bowl starters this past feb 2009
name Ht Wt Age Exp Team Tkls Scks GS
Albert Haynesworth 6-6, 320 27 7 Titans 50 8.5 14
Kris Jenkins 6-4 349 29 8 Jets 50 3.5 16
Kevin Williams 6-5 311 28 6 Minnesota 60 8.5 16
Jay Ratliff 6-4, 302 27 4 Cowboys 51 7.5 16

2009/2008 improve?
Travis Johnson 6-3 , 311 26 4 Texans 28/41 1.0/0 14/13 no improvement
Amobi Okoye 6-2, 306 21 2 Texans 24/32 1.0/5.5 12/14 no improvement
Shaun Cody, 6-4, 310, 26, 5, Detroit 36/17 0/0 4/0 small improvement
Frank Okam, 6-5, 342, 26 1, Texans 4 0 0 didn't play much yr 1
DelJuan Robinson. 6-3, 296, 24 2, Texans 28/0 0/0 3/0 so so in year 2

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by dadmg

Just having fun digging ourselves out of blizzard after blizzard. We're coming off three blizzards in an 18 day period. The shitty apartment I share with my brother has a tendency to flood after blizzards due to foundational issues so right now spring is associated with the smell of damp carpet. But, otherwise, good

I had no idea the Texans had a fan in SD ?
I don't mean to be nosy, but what the hell are you and your brother doing up there ? Surely you're not from up that way because if you were you'd almost certainly be a Broncos fan. You guys must be up there temporarily for employment purposes ?

[Bigtinylittle]

I really don't know who to lay the blame on, but to me the whole Okoye situation has been a big screwup. This is how I believe he was rated by the draft experts:

1. Core strength- average to below average.
2. Pursuit ability- below average
3. Ability to use his good first step and good leverage to shoot gaps- exceptional.

My question is, why in the world do you draft a player like that and then tell him you don't want to use his main talent?

I'm cautiously optimistic that we will see a big step up from Okoye this year just based on how he is used.

[dadmg]

Originally Posted by da Bull

dadmg,

Thanks for the effort. Even if you just applied your best guess to the data base it would be interesting to see how it falls out.

I have to agree with you that "shooting the gaps" is easier for the younger players and "holding a gap" effectively comes with experience. But it helps to have three or four cheese burgers under your belt.

I might try running through somethings based on sacks because I'm still interested myself. But lately that homework I mentioned has been an absolute bitch. I'm pretty much scheduling my weeks at this point on which nights are work nights and which ones are homework nights.

Homework.......Black Hills State Teachers College?

Bingo. Finishing my last two classes for English Education right now, with student teaching in the fall. And am quite glad that the way things worked out I'm only on a part-time load because these two classes alone are kicking my ass quite handily.

Originally Posted by nunusguy

I had no idea the Texans had a fan in SD ?
I don't mean to be nosy, but what the hell are you and your brother doing up there ? Surely you're not from up that way because if you were you'd almost certainly be a Broncos fan. You guys must be up there temporarily for employment purposes ?

Yep, I'm guessing I'm the only Texans fan in South Dakota, but, believe it or not, I'm not even a Texas transplant. I was born 90 miles west of here in Wyoming and have spent all twenty-seven years of my life living in Wyoming and South Dakota.

Ironically enough, it was growing up around here that both drove me to hate the Broncos and, for the same reason, to become a Texans fan. I remember when Elway was taking the Broncos to Super Bowls and losing during my elementary school years and how there would be a sea of blue and orange garb at school around Super Bowl time. And then when the Broncos would get blown out, all the fair weather Bronco fans would disappear. This formative experience taught me to loathe fair weather fans and Broncos fans in particular. Over the years, it also made me think of why people pick their teams. For the most part, its either regional or for the same reason many people are the same political party as their parents, good old indoctrination.

For some reason, I've always like young teams or rebuilding teams. I find them fascinating. Maybe its the Madden GM in me, although I remember it going back long before that. When I first became an NFL fan I was a fan of the Bengals and Bucs in the mid-90s because they were a pair of hapless rebuilding teams and I thought both were doing a really good job of building an interesting future. Apparently interesting meant different things for those two franchises Then I drifted away for a few years. When I came back it was around 2000-2001-ish and the Bucs were an elite team but I didn't feel like a fan because I hadn't been with them on their journey. And by then I knew about Mike Brown and had no interest in rooting for the Bengals any longer. So I needed a new team. And what's a better fit for someone who likes young rebuilding teams than a team building from the foundation up? And I could get in on the ground floor of the experience, which means I'll never be accused of being one of those fair weather fans.

So that's how someone whose never stepped foot in the state of Texas becomes a die-hard Houston Texans fan. And I wouldn't trade a minute of it.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by dadmg

Yep, I'm guessing I'm the only Texans fan in South Dakota, but, believe it or not, I'm not even a Texas transplant. I was born 90 miles west of here in Wyoming and have spent all twenty-seven years of my life living in Wyoming and South Dakota.

Ironically enough, it was growing up around here that both drove me to hate the Broncos and, for the same reason, to become a Texans fan. I remember when Elway was taking the Broncos to Super Bowls and losing during my elementary school years and how there would be a sea of blue and orange garb at school around Super Bowl time. And then when the Broncos would get blown out, all the fair weather Bronco fans would disappear. This formative experience taught me to loathe fair weather fans and Broncos fans in particular. Over the years, it also made me think of why people pick their teams. For the most part, its either regional or for the same reason many people are the same political party as their parents, good old indoctrination.

For some reason, I've always like young teams or rebuilding teams. I find them fascinating. Maybe its the Madden GM in me, although I remember it going back long before that. When I first became an NFL fan I was a fan of the Bengals and Bucs in the mid-90s because they were a pair of hapless rebuilding teams and I thought both were doing a really good job of building an interesting future. Apparently interesting meant different things for those two franchises Then I drifted away for a few years. When I came back it was around 2000-2001-ish and the Bucs were an elite team but I didn't feel like a fan because I hadn't been with them on their journey. And by then I knew about Mike Brown and had no interest in rooting for the Bengals any longer. So I needed a new team. And what's a better fit for someone who likes young rebuilding teams than a team building from the foundation up? And I could get in on the ground floor of the experience, which means I'll never be accused of being one of those fair weather fans.

So that's how someone whose never stepped foot in the state of Texas becomes a die-hard Houston Texans fan. And I wouldn't trade a minute of it.

Great story Dadmg ! And thanks for the response.
"90 miles west of here" looks like it puts you around Sundance/Gillete, WY - that's definitely out there in the middle of nowhere, but I'm sure its gorgeous country (or maybe you'd have a ways to go on west before you got into the Rockies from there ?). I've spent a little bit of time in Laramie, but even that's a long ways from NE WY.
Yea you're definitely breaking in virgin territory up that way as you establish a "local fan base". When you started your explanation re the origion of your interest in the Texans I figured Kubiak (because of his time in Denver) was gonna be a factor, but guess not.
Anyway welcome aboard and we'll all enjoy this ride together as the plot thickens on the Texans journey to the playoffs (soon we hope !).