I'm done with Kubiak and Schaub. They need to go

[painekiller]

I am sick and tired of watching Kubiak get a lead and then taking his foot off the gas and letting the other team back into games.

And Matt Schaub has made bone headed throw after bone headed throw. I am tired of defending them.

They need to be replaced by next season.

[Big Texas]

Shaub needs to be replaced now

[barrett]

Originally Posted by painekiller

I am sick and tired of watching Kubiak get a lead and then taking his foot off the gas and letting the other team back into games.

And Matt Schaub has made bone headed throw after bone headed throw. I am tired of defending them.

They need to be replaced by next season.

On Houston's 3 and out with the 20-13 lead we called 3 straight pass plays. In the 2nd half with a lead the whole time we called 11 passes and 9 runs before the drive with the pick 6. We ran the same offense and called the same plays in the 2nd half. Kubiak did nothing to cost us this game. He had his guys more than ready to start the game for the first time all year. He mixed up the play calling beautifully against the league's best defense. And then Matt Schaub throws it to the other team. That is 3 games in a row Schaub has thrown a TD for the other guys.

Kubiak cannot make the plays for these guys. He can't make Ben Tate hold onto the ball (and prepare for him to get burried like last year). This team is broken and Matt Schaub is what needs to be fixed. It is amazing Kubiak has gotten 2 division titles and a pair of playoff wins out of our brutal QB play.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by barrett

On Houston's 3 and out with the 20-13 lead we called 3 straight pass plays. In the 2nd half with a lead the whole time we called 11 passes and 9 runs before the drive with the pick 6. We ran the same offense and called the same plays in the 2nd half. Kubiak did nothing to cost us this game. He had his guys more than ready to start the game for the first time all year. He mixed up the play calling beautifully against the league's best defense. And then Matt Schaub throws it to the other team. That is 3 games in a row Schaub has thrown a TD for the other guys.

Kubiak cannot make the plays for these guys. He can't make Ben Tate hold onto the ball (and prepare for him to get burried like last year). This team is broken and Matt Schaub is what needs to be fixed. It is amazing Kubiak has gotten 2 division titles and a pair of playoff wins out of our brutal QB play.

But Schaub is Kubiak's chosen one, for whom he's made no effort to even bring in any competition. Don't see how the failings of his guy absolves him. By his actions, Kubiak bet on Schaub being the guy. He has to answer for that.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Joshua

But Schaub is Kubiak's chosen one, for whom he's made no effort to even bring in any competition. Don't see how the failings of his guy absolves him. By his actions, Kubiak bet on Schaub being the guy. He has to answer for that.

He bet on Schaub over who? Name me the playoff team that ever spent a high draft pick or FA money on a backup QB to give their starter competition.

Schaub got a free pass 2 years ago by being hurt. Then he tanked at the end of last year and is obviously on short leash career in houston wise. The GM made critical media statements about him after last week. He is in a make or break year. If we get this for 16 weeks and don't go past round 2, I'd be shocked if Schaub survives. Rick Smith is the ultimate decision maker on this stuff and has never been shy about making moves.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by barrett

He bet on Schaub over who? Name me the playoff team that ever spent a high draft pick or FA money on a backup QB to give their starter competition.

Schaub got a free pass 2 years ago by being hurt. Then he tanked at the end of last year and is obviously on short leash career in houston wise. The GM made critical media statements about him after last week. He is in a make or break year. If we get this for 16 weeks and don't go past round 2, I'd be shocked if Schaub survives. Rick Smith is the ultimate decision maker on this stuff and has never been shy about making moves.

San Fran took the job away from the guy that took them to the NFC championship game last year. And then got to the Super Bowl.

And let's not act like Schaub's shortcomings are new. It's been a topic for well over a year. In fact, go back and pull up the thread when it was rumored that we were Manning's first choice, I, along with others (but not Bob, he was still advocating for assembling the elusive perfect roster around Schaub), couldn't believe the Texans weren't willing to even explore this. Can you imagine this team with Manning? But, no, we had Schaub, why would we consider one of the best to ever play the game.

Regardless of what everyone else has done, Kubiak's job is to put together the best football team he can. There is no indication he's even considered bringing in any competition since the minute he and Schaub played golf together 7 years ago and Schaub wowed him with his ability to talk football when there's not a defender within 5 miles. That's on him.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Joshua

San Fran took the job away from the guy that took them to the NFC championship game last year. And then got to the Super Bowl.

And let's not act like Schaub's shortcomings are new. It's been a topic for well over a year. In fact, go back and pull up the thread when it was rumored that we were Manning's first choice, I, along with others (but not Bob, he was still advocating for assembling the elusive perfect roster around Schaub), couldn't believe the Texans weren't willing to even explore this. Can you imagine this team with Manning? But, no, we had Schaub, why would we consider one of the best to ever play the game.

Regardless of what everyone else has done, Kubiak's job is to put together the best football team he can. There is no indication he's even considered bringing in any competition since the minute he and Schaub played golf together 7 years ago and Schaub wowed him with his ability to talk football when there's not a defender within 5 miles. That's on him.

SF was not creating competition, they had a new coach who took a year to replace the QB he never wanted. He tried to replace him that summer and then did replace him that season.

But I agree we were stupid not going after Manning. I said it in that thread and say it again. I have no problem with anyone saying we should have replaced Schaub. It is not often done with a QB on a playoff team, but it should have been (should be). But you don't bring in competition for an established starter, you replace them or you don't.

[popanot]

Not sure how accurate this is, but maybe we're not as tethered cap-wise to Schaub as we once thought...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...er-the-season/

EDIT: Added the link

[HPF Bob]

$7 mil in 2015 is still a lot to pay for somebody to play elsewhere. I like Schaub as a person and I don't think he gets enough credit for his toughness but he doesn't adjust well on the fly (start running on 3rd and 10+...Really?).

I blame the play-calling more. If I can guess what's coming on key downs, certainly people who are paid to study film and study tendencies know what's coming. Most of our plays can be stopped if they are telegraphed. If it's third and under 2, it's Arian to the left. If it's more than 2, it's a dump in the flat. Now is that because Schaub can no longer throw deep or because Kubiak has lost his imaginzation?

They also faked the reverse countless times and, to my knowledge, never actually ran the reverse. If you don't ever run the reverse, all you are doing by faking it is wasting precious seconds and drawing one defender to your QB.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

I blame the play-calling more.

So the Texans run on 3rd and 9 before halftime, then have Schaub throw the pick 6 on 3rd and 4 in the 4th quarter to blow the lead. I am so confused by what the thought processes are here.

So yeah, I blame some of the playcalling on occasion, but Schaub has more than one option on every pass play called. That said, I think Schaub is a reflection of his head coach. It also seems Schaub should be allowed to audible more.

The problem with Schaub and Kubiak leaving is that it would seem to make Wade Phillips the de facto hire. Tough to see a scenario where McNair would bring in someone else and not promote Phillips. Not sure what we would have to go on to believe that Phillips would be a fantastic HC.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Keith

It also seems Schaub should be allowed to audible more.

Adam Wexler‏@awexler13m
Kubiak asked if Schaub had freedom to audible out of play called on 3rd & 4 (pick-6). He said no. Once it was called they just go. #Texans

The Texans have been criticized a lot recently for the four-year extension they gave Schaub last year on the eve of the 2012 season opener that totaled $69.7 million. Here's what I found while examining his contract:

The deal averages $15.5 million per year, with a $17.5 million signing bonus. It guarantees Schaub's base salary of $7.25 million this year. Between the signing bonus, this year's base, last year's base and a few workout bonuses, the Texans will have paid Schaub about $29.7 million of that contract by the end of this season.

If they decide Schaub isn't part of their future, they don't have to pay him one cent more. Schaub's 2014, 2015 and 2016 bases aren't guaranteed and in each of those seasons he has a roster bonus that pays him $1 million total if he's active for 16 games. That's $40 million the Texans would not be on the hook for if they didn't want to be.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/pos...-out-this-year

So no more cash... but the dead money on the cap is still something to remember.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Keith

Adam Wexler‏@awexler13m
Kubiak asked if Schaub had freedom to audible out of play called on 3rd & 4 (pick-6). He said no. Once it was called they just go. #Texans


http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/pos...-out-this-year

So no more cash... but the dead money on the cap is still something to remember.

So if they cut Schaub then all they have to deal with is the remainder of the prorated bonus being accelerated to this year? So 17.5 over 5 years with 2 years accounted for already leaves %60 of the bonus unaccounted? Or almost $12 million in dead money? Now I am guessing there is a deadline (June 1?) that allows it to be spread over 2 seasons?

If we went much cheaper at QB it would be possible. Any rookie QB or a scrap heap guy (freeman), could be fit under the cap.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

$7 mil in 2015 is still a lot to pay for somebody to play elsewhere. I like Schaub as a person and I don't think he gets enough credit for his toughness but he doesn't adjust well on the fly (start running on 3rd and 10+...Really?).

If you think Schaub is tough, I'm generally curious as to what QBs you don't think are tough. Now, I realize "toughness" is a difficult thing to quantify and invariably it comes down to one person's subjective opinion versus another, but Schaub's play and body language has rarely suggested toughness to me.

In fact, I might could even live with his physical limitations if he was the type of guy to stand in there and take a shot while trying to make a play. But he's never that guy. I can't think of anyone who curls up faster than Schaub at the first sight of pressure.

[cadams]

When watching the game yesterday there was a moment in the second half where it looked like Schaub changed. They had a close up of him and you could almost see that he was nervous. Then a few plays later he got "sacked". I put that in quotes because he went down before he was ever even touched, basically conceding as opposed to standing I and throwing it away.when everything is going according to schedule he is a more than adequate qb, but the second things start to move in the wrong direction he seems to be unable to improvise due to his nerves.

[HPF Bob]

I was scrolling through an "other games" thread on a Broncos board and even they were wondering why blows to the head aren't called when Schaub is QB (except for the ear-tearing hit by Joe Mays last year).

He has probably had concussion issues the Texans keep quiet about and I also think his shoulder is worse than it was a few years ago judged by the way his passes seem to float to their target.

During his first year here, there was a lot of public questioning of Schaub's toughness and it makes me think that he refuses to address the subject now because it will never shut up the critics anyway. But the man takes a beating and I don't hear him publicly complain and I don't see his lineman ever retaliate.

That doesn't mean I'm not ready to see Yates or Keenum get a chance to do better. I'm just saying I respect the way he deals with the physical abuse he gets.

[WMH]

Interesting read from Barnwell:
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...broncos-week-4

Schaub Story
It's safe to say that Texans fans are beginning to turn on Matt Schaub. Schaub, whose skill level almost perfectly matches the public perception that the Texans are good enough to make the playoffs and not good enough to do any serious damage once they get there, threw a horrific pick-six on Sunday to open the door for a Seahawks comeback win, which is exactly what ended up occurring in overtime. Houston fans were so angry after the game and Schaub's third pick-six in three weeks that they went to the parking lot and started burning Schaub's jersey. That's the third-most destructive act you can execute as a Houston sports fan after denouncing advanced basketball statistics and attending an Astros game, so these are pretty brutal times.

Allow me to play both sides here. Schaub's interception was grotesque and impossibly ill-advised, and it's been a distressing stretch of pick-sixes from him, but this bad run comes with some excuses and there's no reason to think that Houston absolutely needs to upgrade from Schaub to have a quarterback "good enough" to win the Super Bowl.

Start with that throw, which was more shocking and virulent than anything else on television Sunday night. The throw itself is ugly on aesthetics alone; Schaub rolls out right off play-action and, with a man in his face, decides to lob up a pass to a receiver he must have thought was wide open. Somehow, he fails to see the best cornerback in the league lurking behind that tight end, and Richard Sherman is all too happy to undercut the throw as it hangs in space for all eternity. It's a pass we would all have made fun of for weeks had it been thrown by Mark Sanchez or Blaine Gabbert.

What's worse is that it came in a situation when Schaub needed to err on the side of protecting the football. Houston was facing a third-and-4 with 2:51 left in a game where it was up 20-13; even if the Texans didn't convert on third down and punted, Seattle was going to have to drive the length of the field and score a touchdown to tie the game. I'm all for being aggressive and trying to win games, and I actually like Gary Kubiak's decision to try to throw the ball with a safe pass underneath on third down, but Schaub should never have even considered forcing a throw. He should have been happy to take a sack and either run clock or force Seattle to take a timeout. He needs to know that, and you can imagine how hard it will be for Kubiak to trust him in the same situation next time, even though a throw might be the best call in that game down the line. In all, ESPN Stats & Information calculated Schaub's interception to be the most meaningful play of the week in terms of win expectancy, as the Texans had a 95.1 percent chance of winning the game before the play and merely a 56.3 percent chance of winning afterward. The game wasn't over, since Houston still had a two-minute drill and two drives in overtime to try to win the game, but it failed to score on any of those possessions and lost a heartbreaker when the Seahawks kicked a field goal to win it late in overtime.

Terrible throw. Now, again, let's put it in context. It was Schaub's third pick-six in three weeks, but it's not like Schaub has some disease where he throws awful pick-sixes; according to Pro-Football-Reference.com, Schaub didn't throw a single pick-six in either the 2011 or 2012 seasons. He has 10 across seven seasons as the Houston starter, which isn't an egregious average. Fans wouldn't think too hard about a quarterback throwing an interception per week over a three-week stretch, but because they've resulted in instant touchdowns, fans are naturally more upset about the results of those interceptions.

That's part of being a fan, but it doesn't mean Schaub is somehow doomed to be a guy who gives up too many dangerous throws for pick-sixes. Plenty of famous quarterbacks have thrown three pick-sixes (or more!) in a three-week stretch before or during successful careers that included Super Bowl–winning seasons. Ben Roethlisberger and Drew Brees each had three-game stretches with three or more pick-sixes and then didn't throw another one for a year each. Peyton Manning had such a stretch in 2001, threw one pick-six between 2002 and 2006, did the same thing again in 2008, didn't throw a pick-six in 2009, then threw four of them in two weeks in 2010. He's still doing OK.

In fact, Eli Manning threw three pick-sixes in one game against the Vikings in November 2007 and didn't throw another pick-six until the following campaign. That ugly game also started a dismal run for Eli, one which suggested he might not be ready to play at the high level the Giants envisioned after taking him first overall. Sure enough, Manning was dragged to the playoffs by his team at the end of the season and put together an incredible run there, producing an unlikely Super Bowl win just two and a half months after his three-pick-six day.

That Eli could play so poorly and still get a ring speaks volumes to how useless the "good enough to win the Super Bowl" signifier is. We5 treat it at times as if it's some kind of clear line of demarcation — like you need to be this tall to ride the roller coaster and this good to win the Super Bowl. Recent history should tell us that there's no such clear line.

Pretend, for a moment, that Eli Manning and Joe Flacco had produced the same Week 4 performances this week without any notable run in the playoffs to their name. Would anybody in their right mind look at their days (or 2013 seasons, for that matter) and suggest they were good enough to win the Super Bowl? Of course not! In fact, Giants and Ravens fans would be sitting in the same parking lots saying the same things about how they needed to upgrade at quarterback to have any hope of winning a Super Bowl. Because Manning and Flacco each already won a Lombardi Trophy, we don't think about them in the "not good enough to win a Super Bowl" way, despite what their poor performance would otherwise suggest. Just as they were capable of winning a Super Bowl and are still capable of having bad games, Schaub can have a bad game (or string of games) and still be capable of winning the Super Bowl.

And like any quarterback, he's going to need help from his team, which hasn't offered much: Arian Foster's per-carry numbers are down, as he's averaging 3.8. Andre Johnson got hurt and has missed time over the past few weeks. The team has already been without elite left tackle Duane Brown for the past two games, and star inside linebacker Brian Cushing missed the fourth quarter (when Seattle came back from 20-6 down to tie it up) with a concussion. Remember that Flacco struggled a year ago once his team started losing talented veterans left and right and only really righted the ship once they started making it back onto the field in January.

I feel comfortable saying Schaub is good enough to win a Super Bowl, because I've seen quarterbacks who were worse than him during their season at the helm get hot during the playoffs and win the big trophy. As critical as you are of his throw (and you should be, since it was terrible), there's nothing about it that proves he can't win when it really counts in the longer term. Let T.J. Yates sit on the bench. Schaub should be the guy in Houston. At the very least, when you've got nothing to wear six weeks from now, you're gonna really wish you didn't burn your jersey in the parking lot.


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[cadams]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

$7 mil in 2015 is still a lot to pay for somebody to play elsewhere.

True, but if they draft a qb the drop in base salary would make that much easier to deal with for a year.