Harrison and Barber

idymoe · #1 12-23-2008, 01:04 PM

I hope you guys will indulge me here by giving me your observations and opinions on these two. I can't seem to catch Barber on screen, except on special teams. I usually record the games and watch them later, but couldn't bring myself to watch much of the Oakland game. I think I saw where Barber had 5 tackles. Were those all special teams or was he in base defense some.

The times I've noticed Harrison, I've been very underwhelmed. Has anyone seen anything to be optimistic about either one of these two in the future?

Big Texas · #2 12-23-2008, 02:20 PM

I cant say that I have seen much of either outside special teams, but what I have seen in our base defense left much to be desired. They looked just as bad as the next man. Constantly out of position. I cant recall which game but Harrison was beat for a TD on one instance.

Mike · #3 12-23-2008, 10:29 PM

I have not seen enough of Barber as a safety to have an impression. Harrison seems like "just a guy."

I do like Eugene Wilson. He has a nose for the ball, and we need to find another safety to play alongside him.

Keith · #4 12-24-2008, 08:51 AM

Yes, Harrison has had me underwhelmed since I first saw him in camp last year. I thought the team cut the better Brandon at safety (Mitchell).

fyi, it was Harrison on Higgins' punt return TD that I saw as the last man out of position and chasing him fruitlessly into the endzone.

As for Barber, I haven't seen enough to form an opinion. He caught my eye on special teams a few times, but that's been about it.

Bigtinylittle · #5 12-24-2008, 11:47 AM

I can't help but wonder whether Harrison pulled a fast one on the Texans with that graduation thing. It essentially set him back a whole year. I have to wonder whether the Texans would have drafted him if they had known about it.

Most low round draft picks don't stick in the league, so it's not like it is a big loss if we cut him next year. In most cases, I think there are cheap free agents who can play as well or better than most low rounders. Look around the Texan's roster and you will find several free agents who are helping us more than Harrison. That's one reason why I'm glad the Texans have a lot of cap space now. It should let us take lots of chances to bring in guys like Colvin, Chris Brown, etc and just cut them with minimal loss if they don't work out. Sifting through the rejects until you find a Briesel or a Deljuan Robinson.

painekiller · #6 12-24-2008, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigtinylittle

I can't help but wonder whether Harrison pulled a fast one on the Texans with that graduation thing. It essentially set him back a whole year. I have to wonder whether the Texans would have drafted him if they had known about it.

Most low round draft picks don't stick in the league, so it's not like it is a big loss if we cut him next year. In most cases, I think there are cheap free agents who can play as well or better than most low rounders. Look around the Texan's roster and you will find several free agents who are helping us more than Harrison. That's one reason why I'm glad the Texans have a lot of cap space now. It should let us take lots of chances to bring in guys like Colvin, Chris Brown, etc and just cut them with minimal loss if they don't work out. Sifting through the rejects until you find a Briesel or a Deljuan Robinson.

Harrison had no choice but to miss that camp time, it is a league rule. Stanford is one of the few school that ends it regular spring term so late, and yes every team in the league knows that the player taken from that school will not be available until the college term is over.

Bigtinylittle · #7 12-24-2008, 01:23 PM

Well, that makes it even a more curious pick, to me anyway. And at this point, it is looking like one of their weakest picks.

Keith · #8 12-24-2008, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigtinylittle

And at this point, it is looking like one of their weakest picks.

For whatever the reason, safety seems to be the one position that this team's scouts - college and pro - have the hardest time evaluating. I can only figure they lucked into whatever they're getting out of Eugene Wilson this year.

I think to all of us here it seems pretty obvious that a centerfielder-type free safety is desperately needed long-term, yet they keep trying to field two guys at a time who look like mediocre strong safeties instead.

The good news is that the Texans could trade down in the first round from where they're at and still draft one of the highest regarded safeties available next April. If they went LB instead and took a FS in round two, then I'd be satisfied with that, too.

painekiller · #9 12-24-2008, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith

If they went LB instead and took a FS in round two, then I'd be satisfied with that, too.

Everytime I try that in a mock I come up empty in round two. I only see two guys that should be instant starters, they are Taylor Mays and William Moore, after that it's a dice role IMO.

Hey there is a sleeper FS, a junior that might consider coming out Klint Kubiak, Colorado St. what do you guys think?

NBT · #10 12-25-2008, 05:52 PM

Of course we don't yet know who the junior eligibles, and 3rd year red shirt sophomores are, that are going to declare, but Mays or Moore would suit me fine in the first round. I would love to see us pull another trade down for extra picks trick, but that doesn't come along every year.

Harrison hasn't excited me either, but C.C. Brown didn't do much until his third year, so........ The Barber kid just hasn't had enough reps to register one way or another. I agree that Wilson has looked the best at FS. We've had some injuries in the safeties this year, so this has to be an area we have to strengthen for next year.

NBT · #11 12-29-2008, 12:29 PM

Happy to say, Barber had a good game yesterday against Chicago.

idymoe · #12 12-29-2008, 05:00 PM

That was a very nice play to break up the TD to Olsen. Also, actually getting a sack on a blitz was nice.

nero THE zero · #13 12-29-2008, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idymoe

That was a very nice play to break up the TD to Olsen. Also, actually getting a sack on a blitz was nice.

Yea, I thought Orton's head was detached from his body for a second there.

Arky · #14 12-31-2008, 12:40 PM

A couple of days ago, Kubes was asked on the radio who his "unexpected contributors" were this year. On the offensive side, he named Slaton. On the defensive side, he named Barber....

This makes me think the Texans may not go after a safety in the early rounds of the draft or possibly, not at all....

cadams · #15 12-31-2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NBT

I would love to see us pull another trade down for extra picks trick, but that doesn't come along every year.

I agree with this. Fortunately, I think sitting at the 15 pick could be a great spot for trading down. That is right in that area where a top 10 type guy could slip to due to a run on a certain position which could cause a team in the 20-25 range to be willing to part with their #1 and a 3rd rounder to get someone like that. Pretty much the situation the Texans fell into at #17 last year.

NBT · #16 12-31-2008, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arky

A couple of days ago, Kubes was asked on the radio who his "unexpected contributors" were this year. On the offensive side, he named Slaton. On the defensive side, he named Barber....

This makes me think the Texans may not go after a safety in the early rounds of the draft or possibly, not at all....

I now agree Arky, but with Barber not really able to get on the field until the last game, let's not get premature here. Maybe not the first pick now, but I still think both safeties are still a chronic need.

Arky · #17 01-01-2009, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NBT

I now agree Arky, but with Barber not really able to get on the field until the last game, let's not get premature here. Maybe not the first pick now, but I still think both safeties are still a chronic need.

With all due respect, I don't share the chronic need. Barber had 5 tackles in the Oakland game and then the big sack in the Bears game. He had numerous other games with a tackle or two but I think mostly from special teams play. The staff apparently really likes him so I see him getting more time - possibly starting next year. I'm speculating that they won't pick a safety early due to his and Eugene Wilson's good play. Ferguson, who did OK, might be back. Maybe if a BPA is a safety, they might ... but who knows?.... We'll see.....

barrett · #18 01-01-2009, 01:02 PM

Barber's limited emergence should not change things at all. He is simply another SS for us. He may slightly upgrade Brown/earl/harrison/fill-in-the-blank, but we still need a safety with Range and ball skills. Wilson played OK and I was a big fan of his during the season. I think he was one of the big keys to turning everything around, but if anything his impact should show how much we need this kind of player, not convince anyone we have the hole filled with an over-achieving journeyman nearing the end of his career.

Arky · #19 01-01-2009, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrett

Barber's limited emergence should not change things at all. He is simply another SS for us. He may slightly upgrade Brown/earl/harrison/fill-in-the-blank, but we still need a safety with Range and ball skills. Wilson played OK and I was a big fan of his during the season. I think he was one of the big keys to turning everything around, but if anything his impact should show how much we need this kind of player, not convince anyone we have the hole filled with an over-achieving journeyman nearing the end of his career.

He's 28. That's "experienced". I'd say he (Wilson) has a couple of more years of over-achieving left in him. OTOH, the others ages are:

Barber 22
Harrison 24
CC Brown 25
Demps 29
Ferguson 34

I'd say 2 to 3 of those are gone next year.....

Bigtinylittle · #20 01-01-2009, 04:44 PM

I agree with Arky on this one. I would not call 28 over the hill at any position with the possible exception of running back.

I believe the thinking of Kubiak differs from most fans when it comes to FS. I think the FS safety is one of the most exposed positions on the defense, so most fans really notice it, especially on long pass plays. What they don't notice is any deficiences he might have against the run. Most ball-hawking safeties are probably not also going to be great against the run, and I don't think Kubes is looking for one of those.

With our first round pick we might be able to get a ball hawking FS who also plays the run well, but if what we already have is servicable, then I think Kubiak uses that pick for some other position which more desperately needs shoring up. For example, a LB, a speedy DE, a real NT, or another great ZBS running back to go with Slaton. If we use our number one for FS. I will be surprised. If we use a second or a third for one, he may not be better than what we alrady have. At least not next year, which if I remember is a make or break year for Kubiak. If we don't post a winning record next season, he will follow Richard Smith out the door.