Raiders Game Thoughts

barrett · #1 10-09-2011, 06:54 PM

We are in big trouble.

Already missing AJ, Tate, and Ward, we are now likely to be without Mario and Casey.

This means on offense we become even more limited. What was once a very deep offense is now almost weaponless. The decision to not prioritize WR in the offseason looked like it would not be a problem because of our wealth of TEs and RBs. But right now we basically are down to AJ and Walter at WR. JJ is not any good. He cannot run a route. He is constantly rounding off his routes and it lands him out of position. He is relatively big but does not fight for the ball. And his hands are poor. But at least he makes up for it by being a bad return man. I will never understand why he catches the ball and stands still until the coverage gets there and then tries to laterally dodge them. I also don't understand how we employ a special teams coach who is apparently ok with this (and he is also ok with Manning continually bringing it out and not reaching the 20). But at least he makes up for it by making sure we don't cover on punts either.

Our play calling was terrible. We completely abandoned the run game with a full quarter remaining even though we were never down by more than a score. We also don't run screen passes anymore. Either one may have reduced the dozen plus times schaub was hit.

The good news is that the defense is getting better. Phillips did a great job mixing in Safety and CB blitzes today. We will need a lot more of that if Mario is out.

The DL was very good and held their running game in check. The LBs were very good as well. Ryans played by far his best game and Cushing was a mad man. Secondary was good as well. 1 TD on a missed tackle (from our one weak link) and the other from the quarterback breaking contain.

We need to run the ball this week because our QB may join the rest of our team on the IR if we try to throw it 51 times against the Ravens.

Here's to hoping AJ is back for Tenessee and our offensive line just had a bad day.

WMH · #2 10-09-2011, 07:21 PM

Saw a stat on twitter earlier - JJ - 11 targets - 1 catch 9 yds. That's just not gonna get it done.

Special teams were pretty bad today too. Fake punt, blocked punt, terrible fair catch @ the 5, poor returns on KO and punts, etc, etc, etc.

Rough game. Easy to point the finger at Schaub, but there were many other areas of issues.

How about Vickers drop.....WOW. That hurt.

Nconroe · #3 10-09-2011, 07:50 PM

well, I think credit goes to DL of Raiders or blame a lot to OL of Texans. They disrupted our passing and checked our run game to where we abondened the run.

Schaub was only 24 of 51, sacked 3 times, 7 passes batted down, hurried a lot and failed on the money play to end the game with his second interception even though he had time.

You can knock JJ, but very few of the passes to him were catchable. He was double covered some, he was interfered with three times, although they picked up the flag once for some reason and didn't throw it another for some reason, oh yes, the ball was tipped and ruled uncatchable. Likely AJ may have caught four of those like 8 passes to JJ, maybe, we don't kinow for sure.

And penalties on kick returns didn't help our return numbers very much.

Walters, Dreesen, and Daniels and Foster did make some big catches.

Anyways, we lost. didn't play good in a lot of areas.

Lots of single plays one could pick out why we lost by many players.

So congrats to Raiders who played hard on their tribute to Al Davis game.

ok, I did quickly review those 9 targets to JJ, so here ya go
1 - tipped, high, JJ jumped up and caught it
2 - tipped, fell short of JJ by 3 yards
3 - 20 yard out on left, double covered, short, almost intercepted
4 - 10 yard out on right, held, flag thrown, unexplained picked up because hold was after 5 yards
5 - 20 yards down the middle, passed bounced in the ground
6 - Shaub chased about 15 yards running backward, throws to ground between JJ and Daniels
7 - Schaub throws to right deep corner of end zone, CB knocks it down, ppssibly out of bounds
8 - 20 yards to left, JJ held, no flag , ruled a tipped ball
9 - final play, JJ was past the safety, but ball flat stright to safety for int

you can say 1 for 9 isn't getting it done, the ball was not there to be caught , he might have only touched two of those, barely, they were not drops, or not through his hands.

hey, we had 21 first downs to 11 for raiders
473 yds total offense to 278 for Raiders
and time of possession over 34 minutes to 26 for Raiders and we lost.

barrett · #4 10-09-2011, 08:22 PM

My issue is not the 1 for 9. It is that schaub an JJ have played together for years and schaub still has no idea where he will be on any given route. This would indicate he runs bad routes. Especially since it is only with JJ. Plus nothing is crisp. He bends routes instead of breaking them off clean. Just very sloppy and lazy in how he plays WR. And the inconsistency was highlighted today because we had to count on him.

Nconroe · #5 10-09-2011, 08:26 PM

I agree with the rounded cuts , they should be doing better together after three or so years, but Schaub missed 26 passes today, 8 of those misses were to JJ, so 18 were towards other players.

I hope the injuries to Mario and Casey aren't season ending. We got pretty banged up today.

WMH · #6 10-09-2011, 08:41 PM

Devil is always in the details. Thanks for checking that out. Twitter reports can only get you so far.... I was at the game, but didn't remember that many targets, but did realize he didn't catch much.

WMH · #7 10-09-2011, 09:31 PM

Jabba's tweeting that BOTH Mario and Thor tore their pecs, and they're "hoping" they don't require surgery. More info to follow in the next couple of days, but this doesn't sound good at all.

nunusguy · #8 10-10-2011, 09:09 AM

Mario is valuable to our defense, but not even in the same solar system when
compared to AJs value and importance to the offense IMO. The word is rookie Brooks Reed played real well yesterday and got some pressure on the QB after he came into the game. I just think we need AJ out there so much more than Mario to be successful.
JJ played one of his worst games at perhaps the time when he was needed most with AJ out, while Walters stepped-up when needed and played an outstanding game. Another dubious job of evaluating roster personnel by the Texans as one has to wonder why we haven't upgraded that #3 WR position by now ? On the other hand it's never too late for redemption and you know we'll be needing to throw the ball a lot next week against the Ravens.

barrett · #9 10-10-2011, 09:22 AM

Agreed that what Mario does can be replaced to a certain extent by scheme, and he has a credible backup.

There is nothing we can do to replace AJ and he has no credible backup.

And Walter played really well yesterday. He obviously had the big play downfield and a number of other shorter routes he was able to use his size on. If we had run the ball like we normall do, the production from Walter, Dreesen, Daniels, etc..., should have been enough. But I think we found out yesterday that part of what makes our offense work is balance, and our running game needs AJ providing a down field threat to get Foster off. We are going to need some real creativity this week. Hopefully Casey is available to be a part of that with how much Baltimore blitzes.

WMH · #10 10-10-2011, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nunusguy

Mario is valuable to our defense, but not even in the same solar system when
compared to AJs value and importance to the offense IMO. The word is rookie Brooks Reed played real well yesterday and got some pressure on the QB after he came into the game. I just think we need AJ out there so much more than Mario to be successful.
JJ played one of his worst games at perhaps the time when he was needed most with AJ out, while Walters stepped-up when needed and played an outstanding game. Another dubious job of evaluating roster personnel by the Texans as one has to wonder why we haven't upgraded that #3 WR position by now ? On the other hand it's never too late for redemption and you know we'll be needing to throw the ball a lot next week against the Ravens.

Whelp, we're about to see Mario's effect. Jabba just tweeted he is having surgery this week, and is out for the season.

barrett · #11 10-10-2011, 10:11 AM

Foster, Tate, Ward, AJ, Mario, Casey.

I am afraid to see what happens next.

NBT · #12 10-10-2011, 02:19 PM

I was poo-pooed earlier in the year for saying we needed a "viable" #2WR. I was not sold on JJ (bad hands, bad concentration, and a bad route runner.) Walter is OK but he can't get the separation he needs for Schaub to have confidence in throwing him the ball to him on a consistant basis.

They need to sign someone, or bring Jeff Maehl off the P.S.

barrett · #13 10-10-2011, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NBT

I was poo-pooed earlier in the year for saying we needed a "viable" #2WR. I was not sold on JJ (bad hands, bad concentration, and a bad route runner.) Walter is OK but he can't get the separation he needs for Schaub to have confidence in throwing him the ball to him on a consistant basis.

They need to sign someone, or bring Jeff Maehl off the P.S.

I think you were right. More attention should have been paid to wr. But I still think Walter fits exactly what we want in a #2 considering what we have at TE and RB. I just think JJ is not the 2b we need. We need a 2nd guy who can stretch the field. Plus getting rid of Anderson set him back and made sure we were bad at #4 and 5. we need to spend a mid round pick on a speed guy. Any of the draft guys have a list that fits that bill.

Nconroe · #14 10-10-2011, 03:01 PM

Maybe strengthening the guards on OL would help as well, to give QB a little more time to throw a little more accurately.

And maybe a sample size greater than 1 would be worthwhile.

But questions, sure after what we saw yesterday.

and gosh we only had 408 yds passing with those sorry receivers.

maybe a few short slants and hitches to build confidence from Shaub to WR would help get things moving.

some are even suggesting we need a QB with a stronger arm and more mobility.

or a center and guard who didn't get a holding penalty

or center and QB who could exchange a snap

or a FB who cold catch a lob pass

team loss

WMH · #15 10-10-2011, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nconroe

Maybe strengthening the guards on OL would help as well, to give QB a little more time to throw a little more accurately.

And maybe a sample size greater than 1 would be worthwhile.

But questions, sure after what we saw yesterday.

and gosh we only had 408 yds passing with those sorry receivers.

maybe a few short slants and hitches to build confidence from Shaub to WR would help get things moving.

some are even suggesting we need a QB with a stronger arm and more mobility.

or a center and guard who didn't get a holding penalty

or center and QB who could exchange a snap

or a FB who cold catch a lob pass

team loss

LMAO...

You're right. The sky is falling, the sky is falling....

We're gonna have this same conversation 4-5 more times this year, so maybe we should start a single thread and just bump it up to the top after each loss. Might save us some time, and allow for a more productive work day on Monday's after L's....

barrett · #16 10-10-2011, 03:28 PM

Who is talking about a sample size of one? Walter has missed most of 2 games and AJ has missed most of 2 others. We have no 4 and 5 WRs to take away reps. And considering all of that, JJ has 8 catches for the year.

And he is as good now as he's ever going to be. We are passed waiting on him to develop. He has had 5 years with 1 QB, 1 offensive system/route tree, and the best WR in the NFL to learn from. And 8 catches in 5 games is what he is.

Nconroe · #17 10-10-2011, 03:41 PM

ok, how do you explain last year he had 51 catches for over 500 yards. maybe it is the defense and qb some this year as well, maybe, partially.

mainly sayng there was so much wrong yesterday, not just one WR

and I know you covered it but special teams helped loose game just as much as offense yesterday.

ST allowed big returns on kickoffs and punts, had a punt blocked, missed a field goal, allowing a fake punt, we just got out kicked, out punted, did poorly on our kr and pr.

Schaub was asked about this specifically passes to JJ on 610 this AM. He seemed to say a lot of those passes toward JJ were throw away uncatchable passes and just didn't come off from his side as well. Nice of him to say that I suppose.

ok , I will concede further discussions on this as I partially agree, just not sure it is locked in and unfixable. I thought JJ was maturing overall and his catching once in the right place was better now.

barrett · #18 10-10-2011, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nconroe

ok, how do you explain last year he had 51 catches for over 500 yards. maybe it is the defense and qb some this year as well, maybe, partially.

mainly sayng there was so much wrong yesterday, not just one WR

and I know you covered it but special teams helped loose game just as much as offense yesterday.

ST allowed big returns on kickoffs and punts, had a punt blocked, missed a field goal, allowing a fake punt, we just got out kicked, out punted, did poorly on our kr and pr.

Schaub was asked about this specifically passes to JJ on 610 this AM. He seemed to say a lot of those passes toward JJ were throw away uncatchable passes and just didn't come off from his side as well. Nice of him to say that I suppose.

ok , I will concede further discussions on this as I partially agree, just not sure it is locked in and unfixable. I thought JJ was maturing overall and his catching once in the right place was better now.

I don't think JJ lost us the game yesterday. I think we got enough from the passing game and more than enough from our defense to win. I though abandoning the running game in the 4th quarter nearly got schaub killed and made our offensive line struggles worse. Special teams were also awful. I would blame o-line, play calling, and special teams in that order.

As for JJ, even in his 'best' year he averaged 11 yards per catch on 50 catches (for 3 TDs). That is not horrible if you are looking for a possession receiver. But we already have Walter to be steady and block, and play off AJ. We need a 2nd guy who can challenge a team down field. OD and Foster are big parts of the passing game but neither catch balls downfield. JJ has to be that guy if we are going to pay him and play him as the 2nd/3rd WR. He simply isn't. Despite his size and speed, he doesn't really have big play skills. He is not good at going after the ball in the air, and he doesn't run good enough routes to do anything other than a crossing route or a go-route. If you are Randy Moss, you get away with not running routes. Or Dez Bryant. But if you average 11 yards a catch and don't make big plays, you better be able to run a full route tree. JJ can't.

He was not the big reason we lost yesterday, but he just doesn't make plays. That makes me say look to upgrade next year.

Fonz the Boss · #19 10-10-2011, 06:52 PM

Well according to Kubiak, Andre Johnson is day to day and has not necessarily been ruled out against Baltimore. This leads me to believe there's a chance he may be ready for the divisional clash against the Titans.

edo783 · #20 10-10-2011, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fonz the Boss

This leads me to believe there's a chance he may be ready for the divisional clash against the Titans.

Oh, he will be ready for the Titanic's. Wouldn't miss an opportunity to knock the "F" Innagan again if the chance presents itself.