Do We Need a Change at HC?
 

I'm like Mario, I love Kubiak to death as a person, but as a HC I don't think he can get over the hump, which he is showing again this year.

I added a poll to this to take the forum temperature on this and keep the conversation a little different from our other threads. Maybe we'll do another poll after the season is complete.

I didn't vote because I'm not going to be shattered either way. He hasn't done much this year to recommend himself for another year and yet the Ws and Ls are a bit deceiving.

Houston, at 6-7, has a point differential of +38. That's more than 8-5 Denver (+26), 7-6 NY Giants (+12) and 7-6 Miami (-14). In 2008, our point differential was -28 and in 2007 our point differential was -5.

The tough-luck losses against J'ville, Arizona, Indy and Tennessee make our W-L look worse than we really ought to be. Yes, there's been a knack for shooting ourselves in the foot but who's to say those breaks don't turn for us next year the way they've turned against us this year?

So, what I'm trying to say is that if Kubiak is fired, I understand it. If he isn't, I understand that too.

That's me right there. I can't imagine losing those six games the way we did this year in the same way next year.

We won't have an easy schedule next year like we did this year. NFC east is a lot tougher than the NFC west. The Texans picked the wrong year to blow all their close games. And don't forget. Kubiak can't beat the teams in our own division. The Texans lost 4 division games in a row. Now that is about as good of an example as you can get of playing poorly under pressure.

You are flip flopping in your response.
The Texans picked the wrong year to blow all their close games.
- This is not all on the coaching staff. Kubiak and his staff had the guys in a position to win, and they didn't.
Kubiak can't beat the teams in the division.
- He doesn't play....IMO, we have been in position to win all but 1 of our games. The players didn't execute.
The Texans lost 4 division games in a row.
- Yepper, but again, the coaching staff had them in position to win these same games.
Playing poorly under pressure.
- Again, this is the players. The game plan has been there (for the most part) for us to be in position for us to win.

IMO, Kubiak has had some growing pains over the last couple of years, but let's not forget where we came from. With the exception of game 1, we have been in every single game this year. They have not always turned out the way we hoped, but to me personally, as someone who has been around since the beginning, I am happy with the direction we are headed, and think Kubes can get us there. I was beyond pissed at the HB pass @ JAX, but man, Dressen really was WIDE OPEN. If it would have worked, he would have looked like a genius, it didn't so he looked like an idiot. I got over it, and see what the potential is again for the future. If we change, we are going to get blown up, no doubt about it. Offense will change, defense will change, and we will rebuild. Is that really what you want? Not me. While I have been patient, I am inching towards impatient.

And while I am certainly disappointed that I will be nothing more than a casual fan again this January, I am already getting excited about free agency, the draft, training camp.....and here we go again. I have not realistically had this for the past 8 years.

We get a decent back, a couple more fat guys, and some help in the secondary we will be in the hunt again next year.

Go and ahead and sign me up for the 10-11 season. I am in!

This post, no deference to Bob, co-indicts both Schaub and Kubiak as co-conspirators in the 2009 death of the Texans. It points out that Schaub is a great QB without the pressure on (see the Seattle game), with the game on the line he can't make it happen, Kubiak can't do anything about it, and the running game sucks which makes it hard to win or maintain leads in close games, Kubiak et al can't make adjustments at the half (see a whole bunch of games). I won't drone on. :(

Sorry but count me in the let him go group. Im tired of excuses and

consistently see too many opportunities to do the little things winning teams do, that we don't do. Like pick up additional yardage with 8 seconds on the clock and 1 timeout. Or try to get the ball to your best player inside the 10 yard line, not have him block on a play most saw coming.

4 years is long enough for someone to turn a team into a winner. Kubiak has failed to do so and other coaches have done it quicker and with no more to work with than Kubiak has had.

Kubiak's is too loyal to players and coaches that suck. Myers should be gone. Richard Smith should have been gone after his first season. Weaver was kept around too long. Chris Brown still sucks.

Cowher says he won't talk to any teams that still have a coach.

we are 1-5 in or division this year, and we got the 1 win against a team that was starting an 0-6 run. Kubiak has built a team whose achilles heel is the teams in its own division.

Every D in the league knows Schaub can only audible to run plays....so he doesn't audible.

McNair gave Dom Capers the boot as his head coach after four playoff-less seasons, and Kubiak now deserves the exact same treatment. Despite having some of the most gifted players in the league at several positions, the Texans lack heart, killer instinct and the know-how to win. If that's not a reflection on a head coach's leadership, what pray tell is?

four years without one winning season is failure.

do we hope Kubiak pulls it together next season and give him another year? And, if we do give him another year and he doesn't pull it off, we'll fire him, but that would put us a year behind where we COULD HAVE BEEN had we fired him THIS year.

Miami, Atlanta, Denver, New Orleans, I could go on. Teams can switch coaches and immediately make the playoffs.

am not for firing Kubiak just to fire him. it has to be an upgrade and this is the year for hiring a top head coach.

are you really going to bring Kubiak back as a lame duck coach without a contract or God forbid, re-sign him to an extension?

All of the stupid mistakes are on the coaches as much as the players.

Is it out of the question to think a new coach, with different strengths and weaknesses, might correct some of the long running problems with this team while building on the foundation Kubiak has put in place?

Kubiak has only managed to beat Capers best record by one win...in 3 years. For a guy who has brought the team so far he sure does have a crappy record.

Given the Jekyll / Hyde of this team this team has shown from one half to the next in every game this year (w/ poss. exception of Bengals) one of two things must be true. Either: A) Kubiak & Co. performed miracles keepng us tied / ahead in games we had no business being in. or.. B) We are really as talented as we looked in the "good" half and the other half was so dreadfully coached, executed, etc. that it was painful to watch.

inability to win an important game or have more than 5 wins before week 14 in 3 years and 48 regular season games.

2009 - Week 13 - 5-7
2008 - Week 13 - 5-7
2007 - Week 13 - 5-7

At the end of the season, you are what your record says you are. When it's obvious that the talent has improved, but the record stays the same...who do you blame?

If this "improved" team finishes 8-8 next year, do you give Kubiak a new contract or let him go?

But can anybody really argue that Kubiak himself has improved? Does anyone yet have any confidence in Kubiak's clock management? Does anyone yet have any confidence in his game preparation? Does anybody yet have any confidence in his ability to make in-game adjustments? Does anybody yet have any confidence that, when the game is on the line, Kubiak will make the right decisions?

The team has improved under Kubiak. The Texans have better, more talented personnel. They're no longer the abomination of a team that they were pre-Kubiak. But Kubiak is still making the same mistakes he made in his first season. If he's not going to get any better at his job, then why should he be kept around to drag the team down?

these are the teams that haven't made the playoffs since 2002. There's always next year!

Detroit Lions
Buffalo Bills
Houston Texans

44 Kubiak coached games and absolutely zero big wins.

they come out of the bye with the idea that Chris Brown is their best option at HB... Moats looked great at Indy and today yet he couldn't get touches even with Slaton sidelined.

In the off-season, they inexplicably don't address the safety position. So, they are content with Barber, Wilson, and Ferguson as primary backup. We had cap room and also players like Sean Jones available for almost nothing.

Why on earth is Kyle Shanahan more qualified to call plays than Matt Schaub? Schaub's intelligent and knows what he's doing. Instead, they continue to handcuff him by not allowing him to call audibles.

Richard Smith lasted 3 seasons! that's too long. If you're working with a guy every day for years, it shouldn't take 3 years to realize he's a moron!

Correcting inconsistent play is the head coach's responsibility, plain and simple.

If Kubiak comes back next year, do they know how much pressure they will be under? It's going to be insane. If Gary even blinks wrong the fans are going to kill him.

One thing is for certain: It would be difficult to bring in any new assistants, when they know Kubiak is in his last season. So, McNair had better hope none of his assistants decide to retire (like Alex Gibbs) or move on to other club (like baby Shanny following his dad somewhere). It would also be difficult to sign a top free agent, when the coaching situation is unstabilized.

4 years is a long time period in the NFL. The average NFL career is less than 4 years. Most NFL player contracts are 4 years or less. A team has to be built in less than 4 years, or the players you are building around will be gone. That's just the reality that is the NFL. Great organizations realize this and constantly reload their talent. While winning.

What good is a top 10 YPG offense if it cant score when the game is on the line?

McDaniels will accomplish something in his first season that Kubiak has failed to in four. It's about results. It's about performance. Kubiak has a 4 year track record. And that record clearly show that he has not gotten the job done.

The coach also has to play the players who give them the best opportunity to win. Chris Brown doesn't give us the best chance to win, yet we gave him the ball in crucial situations that contributed to 3 of our losses. That's on the coach for not getting the ball to a better player (like maybe that Andre Johnson guy?)

You know, it's the same thing EVERY year. We pick up rather meaningless wins in meaningless December games. I don't care that we won the Seattle game by 27 points. It doesn't really matter. I'm watching to see if the problems that we have been suffering from all season are getting worked out. And they aren't.

Who the hell let's the foot off the gas in the second half like that seriously.. put them away keep your foot on the gas and keep going. Another playing not to lose half by Gary Kubiak,

The Texans are 7-25 against teams with winning records in the Kubiak era.

Polish is the coaches' job. The Texans have no polish. I understand losing one or two games the way we did...but six?

This "if the breaks went our way" argument is silly. Most of the games 'that we could have won' were games that would have gone into OT had they made a play or two, and thus, no guaranteed win. On the flip side, we had a few wins that we could have easily lost (the first Titans game, for example). Our record and team is what it is - and that's average, mediocre, decent - however you want to put it. You make your breaks, you don't sit there hope they happen.

The thing that chaps me the most about Kubiak is, yes we're improved - which I'd hope we'd be after being at the bottom, but we STILL have the same glaring needs that we did when he got here. No pass rush, no running game, sub-par OL, sub-par Secondary. Most of these issues have improved slightly, but they're still huge issues. It's been 4 years! You would think that at least one or two of those areas would be resolved or a strength by now. What is the strength of this team? What is its identity?? It doesn't have one.

IMO, the team has evolved and improved mostly because we've had numerous high picks, some of the young players have matured, and Schaub has been a major upgrade to Carr. Kubiak has had a hand in that as well, but I feel the team has peaked with him at the helm. Time for a someone else to come in and give it a try.

One more draft, one more offseason, one more year. Less than 10 wins in 2010 = time for a change.

I'm gonna withhold my vote to the end of the season to see what kind of record the Texans end up with, though our Division record is already complete and it's really difficult to say a 1-5 record is acceptable.

Just to touch on this... I think it all boils down to running the ball and stopping the run. If you can't do either effectively you are, as a team, going to struggle with consistancy and being able to put away those close games. Those breaks tend to go your way when you can dominate at the point of attack.

I think Kubiak has had a fair shake and simply hasn't gotten it done. It's time to go. With the way the league is currently structured, it doesn't take 4 years to have one single winning season.

The way I see it, Kubiak's tenure should be judged in 2 areas. His coaching; i.e., team preparation and gameday calls and the team he has built (I think most agree he is mostly responsible for putting together this team). As for his coaching, I've been consistently underwhelmed. As others have noted, terrible clock management, adjustments, etc. At least 2 or 3 games a year, the team looks woefully unprepared. Finally, I don't think we've ever sniffed out a trick play. Seems like anytime the opposing team tries a little trickery, we are left completely flat footed (fake punts, wildcat last year, etc.).

As for the team he has put together, I do think the talent has been upgraded but (as someone else said somewhere else) the sum seems to be less the its parts. To me, this is the essence of a coach and where they should be judged. Do you do more with less or less with more? At the end of the day, the only above average unit we have is our pass offense. However, Kubiak inherited the centerpiece of that (AJ). He has used 3 picks on TEs (Daniels, Casey, and Hill), 2 picks on WR (Jacoby and Anderson), and free agency money on Jeb Putzier, Joel Dressen, Andre Davis, and Kevin Walter. Quite frankly, our passing game should be good considering all of these resources have gone into it and AJ was already here.

Finally, I don't understand his player evaluation. As said above, the fact that the Texans thought they were set at safety going into the season is mindboggling. I don't see how a pro personnel guy could have looked at our safeties and thought we were fine and didn't even need to bring in anyone for a look. I'm equally perplexed by his constant juggling of guys into and out of the lineup. Does he not have an opinion as to who is better? One week Okam starts, the next he doesn't dress. Same goes with Deljuan. With our running backs, one week Moats is the starter, the next he can't get a carry (in week 12 no less). How is Kubiak still trying to decide who is the better back in week 12? Isn't that what training camp is for?

In all, he's clearly added some talent to this team for which he is to be commended, but we nevertheless underperform in virtually every area other than our passing game. On top of this, his gameday preparation and execution is often lacking and I don't think I've ever finished a game thinking "Boy, Kubiak really pantsed (___fill in name of coach here___) today!" Finally, the team is clearly lacking in confidence and swagger and Kubiak seems to lack both. He seems to get just as tight and worried as the players when it seems like the game is slipping away. For instance, while I know it is a incredibly minor thing, it bothers me he won't watch a critical kick. You are the coach and the players expect you to lead. This is not the confidence I would like to see from my leader.

Finally, if I may ask one question. I often hear that Kubiak is not responsible for the execution and that's on the players. I get that to a degree, but if you don't judge Kubiak by how the team executes, what are you judging him on? Do you solely look at his playcalls and assuming that they aren't atrocious, you put everything from that point forward on the players? By this standard, would a coach ever be fired?

This is an argument that whatever your opinion is, I think it can be supported, making the decision difficult.

Reasons against:

1) They did not win the close games this year. close out opponents.
2) There is a percived notion that he is not bad a$$ enough. (I doubt this is the case behind closed doors)
3) clock management and game management issues. (I think these are not as prevalent in 2009 as in the past).
4) the team has underachieved the past two years, and put on late season run to 8-8, and 2009 might be the same.
5) Inability to get AJ the ball in the close games this year.

Reasons for:
1) He inherited a pile of crap, now we have one of the best passing schemes in the NFL.
2) IMO, the talent level has improved each year.
3) Schaub while not always healthy has improved each year. I think he would even have better numbers this year with ANY rushing game. We have hardly ran the boots and play action is non-existent with lack of run game.
4) defense has improved under Frank Bush
5) With the exception of the Jets game, I think he has put the players in a position to win each game. Players win games, I think Kubes has given them the chance to win. (take away C and K Brown misques).
6) In his tenure, they might not have always played smart or clean, but I think this team NEVER lacks effort.
7) Change does not mean that there will be better results.

IMO, I voted that we keep him. Cowher is not coming here, Gruden wears out organizations and another coordinator does not equal instant success.
We are in good cap shape, seem to have drafted well in his eta and can fill in the deficient areas.

Not yet, I am in favor of one more year. Cowher will set this franchise back with the install of his system, Gruden is not my favorite, he is worse than Kubiak in wanting older guys ,and not developing the younger players.

I think it was Bum who said, I can beat you with our'n, and I can beat you with your'n. If that doesn't mean coaching is the defining thing, I don't know what would be. Kubiak is just not going to get the job done. Why not realize that now, and go ahead and make the move? He can fall on his sword for the players all he wants to but the bottom line is he has had four years to do it, and, while we have improved, we still aren't any closer to the SB than we were.

Bum was referring to from Wikipedia.

You wouldn't think this would be true, but the coach still has to motivate his pro players just like they do in college.

And most likely the great players are motivated no matter who coach is. an inverse saying is something like the coach ain't nothing without the players. plenty of so called good coaches, SB winning, some of us like, but now looking for work because of what - bad seasons.

"There's two kinds of coaches, them that's fired and them that's gonna be fired."

I was a little surprised to see that most people still want Kubiak to stay. Its going to be the same old thing people.... They cant win big games with Kubiak. I have become aware of that this season. Their record will continue to be respectable because they will win all other meaningless games.... 1-5 in the division is not acceptable. I praise Kubiak for turning this team around though. We went from a joke to respectable. Now we need someone new to take us to the promised land.

This sentence reminded me of something I heard Palillo say the other day and I've been kicking it around for a while but haven't really decided on an answer to. I'm curious to see what others think.

In short, Kubiak has been given lots of props for taking the Texans out of the basement and making them average, respectable, etc. This has generally been viewed as a Herculean accomplishment. When someone called into Palillo and expressed a similar thought, Palillo's take was that this really wasn't much of an accomplishment. While he said it in passing and didn't really go into detail, the jist of his comment was that taking a bad team and simply transforming them into an average team can generally be done by anyone but the most incompetent (particularly with 4 years to do it with). It is getting over the hump from average to good where a person earns his keep. This got me to thinking about it and I wonder whether going from 2-14 to 8-8 is as difficult an accomplishment as we may consider it. Thoughts?

I'll ask Dom Capers and get back to you on that. ;)

I just don't know who we would hire that's going to be better. Do we get a recycle or a new-comer? How much of a philosophy change do we need in terms of 3/4 defense or non-WCO? Is the GM going to be fired too? Then the scouts and all the rest?

The team is getting better. If they regress, then I say we fire Kubiak. The comment was made that we'd be a year behind IF Kubiak gets fired NEXT year. The converse is, we are 4 years ahead IF Kubiak takes the team to the SuperBowl next year.

I would think it ironic if Jim Fassell was the HC and Brian Billick the OC.

Why, Capers couldn't even get us to 8-8?

I think it's pretty clear that McNair is going to keep Kubiak for another year. And, despite my occasional hysterics, I think that's probably the right move.

As Roy asks, who's better? Cower? Sure, he's proven but he's not coming here. Who else? When I look calmly at the disappointing games we've seen I see a lot of players not making plays along with some isolated albeit incredibly idiotic coaching snafus.

If I owned the team I'd try to figure out if the players wanted to play for Kubiak. Do they believe in him? Will they bust their ass for him? If so, keep him around for another year and make it plain to him privately that the team needs to make the playoffs for you to keep your job. Period. Injuries, bad calls, whatever, who cares. No playoffs, no job. And for god's sake, no more halfback passes. Oh, and fire that idiot Marciano.

Precisely. He did get us to 7-9 before he fell off the wagon. People forget that we had set ourselves up for a nice future after the first three seasons then it all went to hell in the fourth one.

There are some things I don't like about Kubiak and I think, like Shanahan, that he doesn't have a clue how to run a defense and gets too cute on offense. I'd love me some smashmouth up front but we just never get the blockers to make it work. Don't know how you fix that when you focus on the d-line every year.

I don't know how to answer those questions. I just know that I look at Denver, and see how quickly they rebounded after getting a fresh new coach. I yearn for that in Houston, as I have done for lo these many years.

Quarterback Matt Schaub insists Kubiak still has the support of his players.
"We continually support him so we've got his back,'' Schaub said. "We're all in this together. We're going to have his back until the end. We're going to fight through this thing. We have the utmost confidence in him and he in us and we're just going to continue down that road.''
**
Receiver Andre Johnson, who's been with the Texans since 2003, said people outside of the organization don't realize what a mess things were when Kubiak took over and how much he's done to improve the franchise. He's turned an offense that was once known for little more than Carr's repeated sacks into one of the top units in the league.
"I think he's changed the attitude of the team because he's been on teams where they've won Super Bowls and things like that so he knows what it takes,'' Johnson said. "He's just as frustrated as everybody else. He knows that we have the talent to go out and do things and get things accomplished, but it's just not happening.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ritethru.0902/
**********************************************
I'm not necessarily a big fan of Kubiaks retention, but to answer your question apparently some of the teams key players are.

Kubiak brought Schaub here of course hes going to say that.


Here are some more quotes from Johnson to chew on.

“There are times they do things that have me scratching my head,” Johnson said. “I can't lie about that. I mean, really scratching my head.”

“There are times I am sitting around wondering if it is ever going to happen here.

“Do I have to go to another team for it to happen?”

Of course he also says in that article he doesnt want to go anywhere else "right now" so take it how you want it.

McNair needs to go all out and try and get Cowher in here NOW. Kubiak hasnt improved as a head coach in any aspect since he got here. Hes just not ready for a head job right now. He has had four years to improve. I dont see what he has done in that time that makes people think he is even close to figuring it out. Hes a great guy and some day he'll PROBABLY be a good head coach but lets not piss away our top players prime years HOPING he all the sudden becomes a real HC here. Let him get his on the job training somewhere else and lets get a leader thats been there and done that.

Ok, it's been frustrating because we started out with high expectations.

Our offense is overall ranked 8th, and defense overall ranked 13th now, so they are moving up as season progresses.

Lots of young talent and coaches on the team and several significant injuries.

Plus, many heartbreaking, could of won losses, in position to win, just a missed field goal, fumble, interception away, so seems the can't do it analysis really is not accurate.

Stability on a team is one of key factors to winning, so keep the stabiltiy.

Also, I think if you are listening to AJ, he wants to stay and we shouldn't try to talk him into leaving please, we need to keep AJ.

The quote was by Bum, but he wasn't talking about himself. He was talking about Bear Bryant. He said, "he could take his'n and beat your'n, or he could take your'n and beat his'n."

By the way, if you don't think we have a way better team than 4 years ago, then I don't know what to say.

Right it was Bear Bryant, and my intent was to speak to the way some coaches get the utmost out of their players, and some just don't. Up to now Kubes has not.

Four games better is not the playoffs, and that is what this whole town is thirsting for.

please check out my post

Bum was talking about Don Shula. Not Bear Bryant.

My reason for voting in favor of Kubiak for one more year is if you go back through the season, we are only a handful of plays going in the other direction from being a top 5 team record wise.

I fear changing HC would mean a step back for a year or two, something none of us wants to do again.

Also if the team adds 3 new starters in the next draft that upgrades us like Cushing did, we would have to be a playoff team.... don't we?

A few thoughts.

How do we make those "handful of plays" next year with the same crew in key positions. An NFL team has an identity and a culture. Our team is an offensive team and there are only two places from which we can change the culture of our team, QB and Head Coach. To me, you can't have two guys deciding our fate who have never suceeded in their current jobs. And since replacing Schaub is equal to a do over, I think the easier switch is Kubiak.

Many teams change head coaches, and very few step back (unless there is a rebuilding goal). Many coaches like Dungy and Gruden stepped in and pushed there teams over the top. If you hire the right coach, nothing says you are going to step back a year or two.

How are we supposed pick up 3 guys in the draft that upgrade us like Cushing did?

Kubiak is great from Monday to Saturday, but he is a bad gameday coach. I just don't see this changing for him with on the job training. I think he'll leave Houston unsuccessful and it will be a few years of play calling as an OC before he works out the kinks and truly settles in as a Head Coach. Either way he helped move our franchise forward and I am grateful for that. I just think he has taken us as far as he is going to.

In another thread I showed these off seasons moves.

Haden takes the place of Dunta. You sign him and get him to camp. He will help this team.

Dan Williams has little Hayneworth in him IMO, he has the ability to split double teams and that makes a difference.

Asamoah and Pouncey are upgrades to the guys we have. Size with feet.

I want a defensive front 7 that is big strong and quick. If you read my post I make a move for Derrick Johnson. My front 7 would be, Smith, Robinson, Dan Williams, Mario Williams infront of Cushing Ryans and DJ. Your back up DL is made up of Barwin, Oghobaase, Okoya, Cody, Okam, Jamison, and Bulman.

He might have said it about Bear Bryant (he was an assistant for him at one point), but the quote came from Bum about Don Shula. He was noting that Shula had won the Super Bowl with a rush-oriented offense in the early 70s and had converted the Dolphins to a pass-happy offense by the late 70s. He said this before Marino and the "Marks Brothers" too.

Rumors out of Dallas are that Jerry Jones wants to hire Shanahan before the rival Redskins do and that the Texans are also interested. That's intriguing in that Shanahan replaced Wade Phillips as head coach in Denver way back when.

However, I think this is disinformation to try to give Shanahan greater contract leverage and probably sources back to his agent. Create competition and it drives up the price. Plus, I think McNair is smart enough to know that if he hires Shanahan, all he is getting is Kubiak with a bigger ego. It won't solve one issue on the field. Shanahan can't help our defense and he also is prone to cutesy plays just like his old OC is.