Owen Daniels Contract Negotiations
 

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/spor...exans_contract

Other quotes from Owen Daniels in the article:
More from McClain.

Well I guess this begs the question of what positions are the most critical? Also, along those same lines, what players in those positions are the most critical to overall team success?

New England for example has been very successful for a number of years. But they always appear to have a defensive back who becomes a high priced free agent every year. On the other hand, quarterback would seem to be the most critical and yet they had a very good year with an unknown backup.

I guess what I'm getting at here is that you can't pay every position the high salaries, so which ones do you target? And, which do you let walk even though the player is extremely popular with the fan base?

The problem with that is trying to figure out if the 3rd best tight end in the league is worth more than the 20th best CB? CB's are generally regarded as more valuable than TE's, but if I had to pick between the two I'm probably taking a pro-bowler over an average starter the majority of the time.

Fan popularity really shouldn't come into play in most cases even though I'm sure it plays a part occasionally. It's hard to compare apples to oranges, but you have to decide how valuable that PLAYER is to your franchise. In the case of Daniels, I think he plays a vital role in our offense.

I think OD did the right thing by coming in for the voluntary camp. I think that buys him some good PR. While that only means so much, I think that helps.

Rick Smith has to start somewhere with negotiations, I wonder if getting OD done is the easiest of the three and then he can work on the other two.

I saw a snippet on rotoworld last night that the agents for Demeco have also been contacted recently by the GM. If I can get the link, I'll paste it.

I agree with Papa, OD is really important to this offense. Even if he does not make the catch, he puts pressure on the defense.

After thinking about it some more, to me, it comes back to what positions become "plug and play" positions. You have to generate a out/in pipeline at point in time.

I think at this point, the offense could operate more effectively without Daniels than the defense could without Ryans. But hopefully at some point in the future it becomes a wash, not saying that I want either one to walk. Just that you have to be able to pay the Andre Johnson and Mario Williamses, because both make their side of the ball go, more so than either Daniels or Ryans, respectively.

Yeah, poor OD will only make 2.9mil if he doesn't get a new deal. Demeco is the one who is relatively underpaid for now. I think all the salaries are too high and so are ticket prices, for average fan anyways. I think TE is important to our attack, not sure if it is OD or the position, some of both.

It is tough to be fair to all the guys who have four-five year deals, they wanted the security, and then salries go up , it puts everyone in a tough spot relatively speaking. And you have to keep total under a cap, which is good.

Philadelphia, Boston, Indianapolis , probably others, have to let some good veterans go every year it seems due to this problem, and they rebuild well enough it looks like.

I saw that Ryans fired his agent and is looking for a new one...I'll look for confirmation on that too.

yep...

from McClain:

http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2009/04/a...a_cat_who.html

[QUOTE=Nconroe;10104]Yeah, poor OD will only make 2.9mil if he doesn't get a new deal. Demeco is the one who is relatively underpaid for now. I think all the salaries are too high and so are ticket prices, for average fan anyways. I think TE is important to our attack, not sure if it is OD or the position, some of both.


That is irrevelant if you think salaries and ticket prices are to high. We are worth exactly what someone is willing to pay. You cannot just plug in another TE and have OD's production.

We are not good enough to let our good players leave without compensation.

I like OD personally, I like his hustle, and I like his talent but honestly I don't think any player is a bigger beneficiary of this offense that Kubiak is running than OD. He is after all a rather undersized TE who isn't more than a mediorce blocker. To me OD is a classic TE/WR tweener with good hands. For example I could see the kid from Rice (Casey I think his name is ?), doing pretty well in this system.

This is most likely true. We could get another pass-catching TE in the draft and pay him like a rookie. However, there is a hidden 'cost' associated with that route. We already have a TE who is productive, that allows us to go out and use that draft pick on another position to make the team better overall. If we simply replace one with another (cheaper) version, then we aren't getting any better, we are simply standing in place. That's also assuming that the replacement player actually lives up to those expectations (as they sometimes don't). It's nice to know what kind of production you can expect from a young veteran, because he's already done it!

The guys that you let walk are players who think too much of themselves or simply don't want to stay with their team. So, the salaries that they are looking for are not in line with their production. Somebody like........Dunta Robinson?

I would guess they most likely don't live up to expectations a majority of the time. even when they do long term it's not a good idea to bet on a rookie to come in an outperform a pro-bowl level player in his prime as a rookie. OD showed some skill as a rookie, but he's much better now than he was then. Even if we went after Pettigrew (I'm guessing he's the top TE in this draft?) He probably has a higher ceiling as a blocker than OD, and could likely be just as effective in the passing game. Even assuming best case scenario he's not likely to do all those things as rookie.

I'm not saying that we should give him a Winslow like contract or anything. I just don't think he's easily replaceable. I think his blocking has also improved quite a bit from his rookie year.

fwiw, USA Today has a pretty comprehensive salaries list available, sortable by positionm, player, team, year at
http://content.usatoday.com/sports/f...n.aspx?pos=134

contract you signed vs what worth now aside, looks like OD should get a raise and it sounds like they are talking , so good. similar for Demeco.

I know hard to build a good team and need to keep our good players, but I wouldn't mind just one year of some of these salaries and I'd be set.

I really think we can get another OD in the 3rd or 4th round like we did the origional and I think that's what the Texans should do if OD is too greedy
when it comes to a new deal, in spite of the sweet-deal Winslow got ?
Winslow may be a jerk, but he has Gonzales type talent and ODs just not a classic TE but mainly a real good fit in a very non-standardized kinda offense.
Why we may already may have the next OD on our roster in the person of one Joel Dreessen ? Cap money is a finite resource and it shouldn't be squandered on players who are not that difficult to repalce relatively speaking.

If Randy McMichael is worth 3.9 and Witten is 4.1, then OD should be at $4 Mil per year. Four years and $16M sounds reasonable. Right?

We gave Greenwood 5.5 and Marcus Washington is at 6.4, So DeMeco is in a strange situation. He's not an OLB in a 3-4, which is more like a DE, but he does other things like run the defense. I would say that 6.6 is reasonable, but he's probably looking for 7+, therefore, the happy medium might be 6.9M per season. I realize that there are bonus things to consider, but 4 years 26M or 5yr/34M might be the deal I'd look for on the cap.

If I were Rick, I'd take the next flight to Tampa Bay and slap Mark Dominik and all the Glazers for giving Kellen "I'm a SOULJA" that ridiculous contract. You know OD and his agents are going, "Hey, why can't I get at LEAST that much? I'm more productive than him, and healthier!"

Tampa Bay has to spend crazy money just to get to the floor. They have been in a that spot for a couple of years now. Who was that guard they gave stupid money to......(can't remember).

So, yes, they screw up the market. Hopefully, Rick Smith is smooth enough to work thru it.

I agree that OD's agents are going to use that....but Winslow might be one of those cases of perception distorting reality. When Winslow is healthy he's been very productive. He had 1,100 receiving yards 2 years ago, and in the two seasons he's played 16 games he's caught 82 and 89 balls. Daniels highest yardage was 862 and he's never caught more than 70.

I'm not saying Winslow is better by any means, but simply pointing out that Winslow has been much more productive than I thought he was until I actually went and looked. I'll take OD any day of the week though.

Yeah, but OD's agents are going to say, "Look at career stats! Owen's got stats that are just as good AND he'll be there for every game!" I'm just afraid we're going to end up with a (relatively) huge contract that ends up restricting the Texans when it comes to dealing with out other soon to be FAs. DeMeco and Dunta still need to be dealt with, and Schaub's got a huge roster bonus that kicks in in 2010, doesn't he? That'll require a renegotiation, and you knw that if he has better than average stats he's going to get serious guaranteed money.

Let Smith and the capologists figure it out. The Colts seem to make the playoffs with tons of guys with monster deals. Manning, Harrison, Freeney, Wayne, Clark and Sanders. I think Manning has the biggest salary # in the league. So I would not fret about having to pay OD. It is not going to be a mega deal.

that's just the way negotiations go. I was simply pointing out that I didn't realize how productive Winslow was when he was on the field. His attitude coming out of college and the whole motorcycle thing got him a bad reputation, and was probably tainting my opinion of him as a player.

I am too. I don't think this offense is so good that we can just pick any TE and plug and play so to speak. I think OD would be much harder to replace than people to realize. That being said if he demands a Winslow like contract then we are probably better off letting him go. I think it would hurt the team a great deal, but not as much as the possible salary cap problems probably would in the long run. We still have no idea what's going to happen when the owners and the NFLPA sit down and negotiate. That makes this that much harder.

I don't see Schaub's contract as a big problem. They will renegotiate, but it will be more of a shuffling things around for cap purposes (if there is one)with a little extra thrown on top. I could be wrong, but I just don't see that being a big issue when we get there.

I personally think Owen Daniels is a MUST. He's imperative to the offense. So often, I've seen him come up huge (despite some stupid fumbles on his part) when there was nothing else open. He's Schaub's security blanket, especially as mobile as he is and especially in the offense we run.

sounds like OD wants a Killen Winslow type deal, 6 years, 36 mil, 20 mil guanranteed, 42 mil with incentives. sounds steep, Tampa messed up the whole league pay structure for TE. I doubt OD is worth that much, even though he may be quite good and valuable to Texans. Good for OD coming to voluntary workouts. Hope they find a happy medium and he stays a Texan.

6 years,

$24M with $16M guaranteed. Anything more than that is $tupid.

Does it matter that OD is technically the 3rd QB on the roster on game day and he knows it?

There was a snippet last season, maybe the one before, where OD talked about Kubiak telling him that if Sage went down he was taking the snaps.

I know he doesnt take any practice snaps, not that we see anyway, but that doesnt mean that he and the team dont know who is comming in.

I am actually pretty suprised we havent seen any trick plays with OD given his QB background.

You mean like when the Texans messed up the whole league pay structure for non-OLTs way back in 2004 when they coughed-up 10 M guaranteed for a very ordinary (at best) RT named Todd Wade ?
How does that go - what goes around comes around ?

I'm not too worried about the team forking over a huge contract like some. I think the negotiations between Dunta and Demeco are pretty good evidence that the team is not going to cave and overpay just because a player is a favorite. If Owen has ridiculous expectations and demands for his new contract, I'm sure they will let him walk. But I don't expect Daniels will demand a Winslow type contract.

I don't think the Texans should pay him stupid money like Winslow got, but i do think you have to pay him in the top 5 TE range. I feel that he is one of the 5 best TEs in the League. He is just hitting his prime so they should lock him up.

Here's my question: does OD have any significant leverage left for negotiating a new contract after the Texans took not one but 2 TEs in the Draft, especially the second guy James Casey ?
And while Anthony Hill may be primarily a blocking TE who is a replacement for the retired Breuner, on the face of it Casey looks to be a virtual clone of OD. He's the same size in height & weight and I suspect their combine/Pro- Day measurerables are very comparable ? And like OD he's very athletic with excellent hands.
I dunno but I'll bet OD was in near shock after he heard about the second TE picked in the Draft ? And if anybody (like the Bills who reportedly were interested in OD) comes to them now with an attractive trade offer including a high 2010 Draft pick how seriously do Smith/Kubiak consider such a deal ?

I think that if buffalo comes with a deal for OD, it needs to be seriously considered. On the other hand, OD has been such a cog in our offense, that it would take a very high draft choice and maybe another vet to make the deal work for us. I still think OD will be a Texan this year.

I'm thinking John Wendling, Xavier Omon, and a 3rd round pick.

I think if the Texans are going to pay big money for a TE, they'd prefer one who fumbles less.

(Six coughed up over the past two seasons)

I think Casey is just insurance. There's so much in the air right now with the CBA negotiations that there's no way to be certain what contractual role Daniels will fall under after this season. Will he be an UFA? Will he be a RFA again?

You don't want to deal a proven, pro-bowl veteran and replace him with a rookie. So, you draft Casey, let him learn the system for a year, let the CBA drama play itself out, and make your decision next off-season.

I think TEs are like running backs in the Kubiak offense, they're almost a dime a dozen but not quite. They are tweeners, too small to be a traditional TE and too slow to be a WR and therefor there aren't many systems in the NFL that guys like OD can succeed at, let alone star. I think Joel Dressen or the rookie Casey can step up and play TE for Kubiak.
I like OD, he's a hard worker, a solid team player, and reasonably talented football player but we're not talking Andre Johnson here, he's certainly expendable IMO. If we could get anything like a 2nd round pick for him I say jump on it before the other team has a chance to reconsider.

...........Another yes but - OD was our second leading receiver last year!

I think the TE position is crucial to this offense. Whether or not OD is the reason for that or it is all scheme is hard for me to say, and I guess we have to trust Kubiak and Smith on how easy that position is to fill. I see OD's success the last few years as a major reason our offense has been relatively effective.

I find it pretty easy to trust Kubiak and Smith. They get an A from me so far.

FWIW Bob Allen reported yesterday on local Channel 13 (ABC), that a Texans "source" told him contract negotiations with ODs agent are now very active. I'll be very surprised if they work out a new deal with OD before they do with DeMeco, whos signing to me is clearly the higher priority.

Doesn't matter which one is the higher priority. They still need to sign both. OD's contract may be easier to work out since he may not have as much negotiating leverage, or, it may just be a matter that the two sides have been closer coming to an agreement than the Texans and DeMeco have been.