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-   -   Official Texans vs. Vikings Game Thread, 8/31/2009 (http://inthebullseye.com/forums/showthread.php?t=744)

Keith 09-01-2009 12:47 AM

http://www.inthebullseye.com/archive/2009/20090831.html

Xavier Adibi and the safeties just turned in a brutal performance. I don't think that Zac Diles was worth writing home about, but once Cushing returns, I wonder if Diles should start at WLB in place of Adibi. Man oh man. And I can't remember thinking many good things about Dominique Barber since he started playing more with the 1's. Sad thing is I'm not sure there's better alternative on the roster.

Keith 09-01-2009 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMatrix31 (Post 13407)
Playcalling will be fine. Kubiak is creative as hell.

I'm not one to gripe much about preseason playcalling, but the decision to run the ball against the league's best run defense with nine seconds left in the first half was a head scratcher.

I suppose Baby Shan thought he could maybe sneak something past the defense since everyone was thinking deep pass, but then again, everyone was thinking a deep pass was the right playcall there for good reason.

Watching ESPN back home afterward, it looked like Kubiak walked up to and past Baby Shan after that playcall and said something to him. And I can't read lips, but it seemed to me like Baby Shan said something to the effect of 'my bad' in return. But maybe I was reading too much into it, I dunno.

chuck 09-01-2009 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrett (Post 13405)
It's a cop out to blame Casserly at this point. The current crew has had more than enough time to turn things around. If we fail this year it is squarely on Smith and Kubiak.

Oh, I'll be happy to gripe about them, too, when the time comes, don't you worry.

Kubiak and Smith have overseen near total personnel turnover since they took over. That tells you what sort of talent they were left with. There was more defensive talent on the first year's team than there was when Kubiak took over. That may even be true today. Think about that. Casserly took an expansion team's defense and made it worse. Under a defensive minded coach!

Casserly's total mishandling of the personnel derailed the franchise. There is no other way to look at it. Consider Babin and Buchanon. Assuming that the team had a competent GM think about the defensive players that the team could have had if they'd conserved the picks they used in those two trades that yielded the team literally nothing other than wasted time.

TheMatrix31 09-01-2009 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith (Post 13409)
I'm not one to gripe much about preseason playcalling, but the decision to run the ball against the league's best run defense with nine seconds left in the first half was a head scratcher.

I suppose Baby Shan thought he could maybe sneak something past the defense since everyone was thinking deep pass, but then again, everyone was thinking a deep pass was the right playcall there for good reason.

Watching ESPN back home afterward, it looked like Kubiak walked up to and past Baby Shan after that playcall and said something to him. And I can't read lips, but it seemed to me like Baby Shan said something to the effect of 'my bad' in return. But maybe I was reading too much into it, I dunno.

Yeah that was awful dude.

nunusguy 09-01-2009 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy P (Post 13390)
DeMeco was showing what he can do when healthy. He played a Hell of a game.
Connor Barwin is going to be out Justin Tuck and I like the way Bush plays him.
The 75-yard run that Peterson started the game with was all Adibi's fault since he overran the play leaving nothing back side. Wilson, Ferguson, Barber, and whoever else we play at the back end of the Secondary is atrocious.
Very happy to see Duane Brown playing well against Jared Allen. I was hopeful that Caldwell would beat out Briesel at RG, but right now, I'm not sure who is worse.
Can't wait to see Cushing play, hopefully that will help DeMeco.

Where the hell you been stranger ?
But ya, there was some positives in the game, certainly compared with the embarrassment vs NOLA. And thanks for pointing them out, along with the negatives which were all too obvious.
I wondered about the first play of the game, and you're saying Adibi and not the SAM was the guilty party ?
I really wonder if Cushing makes a difference, and if so can he stay on the field ? Speaking of staying on the field, what are we gonna do about Schaub ?
The backup QB is talented with a strong and accurate arm (sometimes accurate), but he hardly inspires confidance. But they are saying "sexy Rexy" back sooner than anyone expected - like maybe Friday vs TB ? Could he be our salvation if Schaub misses a lot of time again this year ?
Atleast the effort was there from the DLine tonight with guys hustling all over the place. And DeMeco was all-world.
I'm anxious but excited about the season-opener. Really don't know what to expect ?

popanot 09-01-2009 08:12 AM

All in all, it was a pretty pathetic performance last night. One thing is for sure, though... Demeco is a frickin' stud and they need to pay the man!!! OD showed he should be paid also. There's no one on the roster even close to these two guys at their positions!

My quick assessment;
- Schaub was horrible, IMO. Seemed frazzled from the start and never really got into any sort of a rhythm. Showed once again he's an injury waiting to happen - and Orlovsky is an INT waiting to happen. The season is definitely over if/when Schaub goes down. I wish they would have signed Jeff Garcia as the backup (or pick him up if he's cut). Garcia's not great at this stage, but I'd feel a hell of a lot more comfortable with him in there for a few games if necessary.
- OL was OK. Not good, nor bad. I don't care who they're playing against, they need to figure out how to get more out of the running game (misdirection, RB screens, etc.). Pass protection was average. They didn't get Schuab hurt, but he had to scramble more than I like and I don't recall Schaub having all that much time in the pocket before feeling heat.
- Barwin was a great pick. Aboslutely LOVE the guy's motor.
- Okoye played better, but that's not saying much. Let's see if it continues. I have my doubts...
- Secondary is awful, obviously.
- Demeco was obviously all over the place, but I felt the other LB's played better after AP's big run. They did pretty well in coverage, IMO.
- Pass rush seems to be more active and I definitely liked some of the blitz packages.
- Kubiak needs to start sending a stronger message to this team about performing, intensity and also protecting your teammates. It's ridiculous there wasn't an all-out brawl when Pitts was kicked while down. And then no retaliation when DCKHD Favre threw the crack-back block on Wilson? WTF!?

Joshua 09-01-2009 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith (Post 13409)
I'm not one to gripe much about preseason playcalling, but the decision to run the ball against the league's best run defense with nine seconds left in the first half was a head scratcher.

I suppose Baby Shan thought he could maybe sneak something past the defense since everyone was thinking deep pass, but then again, everyone was thinking a deep pass was the right playcall there for good reason.

Watching ESPN back home afterward, it looked like Kubiak walked up to and past Baby Shan after that playcall and said something to him. And I can't read lips, but it seemed to me like Baby Shan said something to the effect of 'my bad' in return. But maybe I was reading too much into it, I dunno.

Although it really didn't work, I told my buddy before the play that I expected a run there. I think Shanahan's thinking was just to put us in the best position to try a FG. They were too far out to have a realistic shot at a TD with only 1 real play left and a sack could have possibly taken them out of FG range. I think they were just hoping to catch Minn. off guard and pick up an additional 5 yards or so to give Brown a better shot at 3. I actually thought it was probably the right play call, it just didn't really work.

barrett 09-01-2009 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck (Post 13410)
Oh, I'll be happy to gripe about them, too, when the time comes, don't you worry.

Kubiak and Smith have overseen near total personnel turnover since they took over. That tells you what sort of talent they were left with. There was more defensive talent on the first year's team than there was when Kubiak took over. That may even be true today. Think about that. Casserly took an expansion team's defense and made it worse. Under a defensive minded coach!

Casserly's total mishandling of the personnel derailed the franchise. There is no other way to look at it. Consider Babin and Buchanon. Assuming that the team had a competent GM think about the defensive players that the team could have had if they'd conserved the picks they used in those two trades that yielded the team literally nothing other than wasted time.

There is another way to look at it. Smith and Kubiak have been given plenty of time to turn things around. We had a recent thread where we saw that New Orleans had a coaching change at the same time and they have had just as much turnover as we have and they have even less remaining talent.

Anything we lack right now is %100 Smith and Kubiak. They made this team according to their vision and priorities and desires. Casserly and Capers sucked but they have nothing to do with whether we win or lose this year.

idymoe 09-01-2009 11:33 AM

I'll have to watch the game again to look more closely at some players, but here are a few things I noticed. Ryans played great, but the other backers were the biggest liability on defense. I know Wilson looked really bad on the play on Taylor, but with the DL trying to get penetration all the time, the lb's really have to fill the gaps. A lot of the passing yards that Farve got were yac's on screen plays. The lb's have to be blowing those up. If Adibi doesn't improve quickly, then I think Diles should take over Will when Cushing gets back.
I thought Amobi got more inside pressure than I have ever seen him get. Barwin caused problems. His speed caused McKinney to tackle him. That penalty is almost like a sack, other than getting the down over. Brown looked like the veteran big back he is, and Foster made some nice plays the short time he was in.
Pitts was noticeably rusty.
Orlavsky made some nice throws under pressure, but bad decision on the pick.
Don't ever want to see Brink in a regular season game, unless it's a blowout. He had some zip on the ball, but he reminds me of the golfer who can drive it a decent distance, but had to swing as hard as he can. He'll never be consistent.
Thought Cody did well and DelJuan was very active, albeit against 2nd team, mostly.

Wish Okam could have fallen on Favre for that chicken-shit block on Wilson.

HPF Bob 09-01-2009 12:40 PM

The next time the Texans successfully defend a screen pass will be the first.

papabear 09-01-2009 01:49 PM

I'm actually not nearly as upset as some people are about the game last night. There are plenty of things that concern me, but as I was looking through comments here and at battle red during the game it seemed like their was plenty of the we suck crowd. The offense didn't look sharp, but we were playing one of the better defenses in the league. The defense has some holes, but we all knew that. They also showed some backbone especially the drive where they held Minnesota to a field goal. General observations:

-I thought there were times last year where Slaton missed the whole, or picked the wrong one. Last night I thought he looked indecisive early, but better after Brown had a couple of series. I don't know if it's rust or what, but he seemed to be dancing a little last night and didn't have the "one cut and go" mentality. On one play he damn near went backwards to try and bounce it outside instead of taking it for a yard or two at least up the middle. I think he'll be fine...and even last year our running game was a bit feast or famine. Brown could be a big help, and Foster looked good too. Gibbs will fix whatever problems are in the run game.

-I thought the defensive line did a good job last night. They pressured the QB into a few incompletions, got a few sacks, and were close enough to get a shot on the QB several times. The big run early was not their fault. Adibi overpursued, but Adibi and Ryans were both kept clean on that play. If the d-line does nothing else against the run accept hold the line and keep the LB's clean they did their job. Barwin is very active. Okam had a couple nice pressures. Okoye too, and I saw him string several plays out to the sideline. Showed a lot of effort. Smith got a paw on Favre that allowed Mario to get a sack. Plenty to work on, but overall I thought the D-line looked better than the LB (minus Demeco) and the secondary....though that's not saying much I guess.

-It will be interesting to see who starts at WILL once Cush is back. Adibi and Diles have both made plenty of mistakes. It's a tossup in my opinion at this point. I think Adibi has much better potential and should therefore win the tie breaker. Ryans was playing with a fire that was great too see. The LB's have to do a better job sniffing out screens, especially if the CB's are in man.

-I thought the corners were fine last night. Minny's not known for their passing game, but we were beaten mostly by screen passes and dump-offs that aren't necessarily the corners primary responsibility. The couple of down-field passes they tried were well covered (and/or poorly thrown by that guy). The safeties get a failing grade just for that Eugen Wilson tackle though....I think that was the same play where Demeco looked like he had man coverage on that, or at least sniffed it out, but slipped trying to get to the play.

-Duane Brown had a great day pass protection. Captain A-hole was held in check.

-Pitts needs to play next week even if it's mostly back ups in that game to knock the rest of the rust off.

-Orlovsky was making me feel good about him....until that pick. Both picks looked like the same problem. It looked like they decided where to go with the ball before the snap. I don't know if the breakdown was in the pre-snap read, an audible, or they just did a good job of disguising coverages, but Kubiak needs to fix that. I'm not worried about it as much with Schaub. I thought we saw a little of why Kubes likes Orlovsky so much last night though.


I'm not guaranteeing playoffs(I always think you should wait to get through a good chunk of the season before playoff talk starts anyway) or anything like that, but I don't think it's fair to write this team off either. The defense struggled against a VERY good offense one week. The Offense struggled against a very good defense the next. Both games were still winnable when the starters started coming out, and we have no idea what would have happened had it been a real game. Sure, I would have liked for them to look better, but most NFL games are of a back and forth nature that usually aren't settled until well into the fourth quarter. We've been great in the preseason before and it didn't do us any good. I think we have enough guys on this team with the right make up to use the last couple of weeks for motivation.

coloradodude 09-01-2009 02:03 PM

Connor Barwin and DeMeco Ryans played excellent. They will have to be accounted for.

Mario Williams had the best seat in the house last night on several run plays. He is no threat to the opponents run game, that's for certain.

Eric Winston...I really hope Gibbs puts his pathetic play under the microscope.

Back to the positive! I think Connor Barwin is a young, inexperienced Jared Allen in the making. Relentless.

chuck 09-01-2009 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HPF Bob (Post 13427)
The next time the Texans successfully defend a screen pass will be the first.

Hey, at least the Texans are designing and calling screen passes on offense now. There was a period of about three years when I didn't see a single designed screen.

TexanJedi 09-01-2009 02:59 PM

Well, I do admit I have tempered my expectations (I hate to say a third straight 8-8 season would not floor me, disappoint me yes) after the last two weeks. Sure it's preseason , but these are good football teams.

I always thought the defense would take some time and be a work in progress, and it hurts to not have Cushing, Reeves, and Robinson; but Antonio Smith has yet to really flash and I get this feeling in the pit of my stomach that he could be another Super Bowl free agent bust- but I won't freak until halfway through the season if this keeps up.

I think this team lacks toughness, however you define it. They certainly are not the Steelers or Ravens.

On offense the pass protection looks good, but the run blocking thus far leaves a lot to be desired. I am usually very optimistic, to the point of being a homer, when a new season begins, but this one not as much though I guess I should be. Come on prove me wrong Texans.

papabear 09-01-2009 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coloradodude (Post 13432)

Mario Williams had the best seat in the house last night on several run plays. He is no threat to the opponents run game, that's for certain.

Mario can get a little pre-occupied with rushing the passer and the run stopping suffers. He improved greatly since he first got here and I think he's proven that he is very capable against the run....much better than other elite pass rushers such as Allen, Freeney, etc.

dadmg 09-02-2009 02:34 AM

I was waiting tables at Applebee's while the game played on our TVs. After paying attention during some of the pre-game because the restaurant was dead, I began trying to do some actual work. Then, as I was walking by I saw the Vikings lined up and I thought, "Let's see how the Texans run D is looking." Turns out it was that first play of the game. I went back to work and didn't watch another play. I had all the answers I needed. And now I'm thinking my 7-10 win projection might be on the optimistic side, even if it's lower than most of the prediction's I'm seeing here.

nunusguy 09-02-2009 07:26 AM

Looking at the replay, it was a basic inside zone run. The Vikings were in a tight I-formation, the flow started left and most of the Texans defensive front went with it. Peterson took a deep handoff from Favre and seemed to be running full speed when he hit the hole.

Mario Williams and Fred Bennett were on the backside and are probably the corner and end that Kubiak was talking about. Mario took the outside shoulder of the right tackle which allowed the backside cut. The receiver lined up just outside the tackle came over and helped screen Mario away from the play. I'm guessing that Mario was supposed to crash inside when he saw the fullback lead left.

Bennett was lined up tight on the wide receiver just outside the tackle and got sucked into that same double team. He took a bad angle to the hole which prevented him from making the tackle. At the second level, Xavier Adibi was in the best position to make a play but he got sucked in to the flow to the left side - with six other defenders.
http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Housto...for-prime-time
***********************************************
In case anybodys still interested, here's a comprehensive analysis of the Texans busted play vs AD/Vikings on the 75 yard TD by AJ from the
Examiner.

idymoe 09-02-2009 12:04 PM

I replayed that run about 10 times last night in stop action. Mario was basically stood up at the los by one blocker. I'm not sure what "crashing inside" means. If he had penetrated outside the block, he would have been even more out of the play than he was. The right tackle basically had him sealed, and it appeared Mario was pretty content just to hold his position.

Let me back-track and set up the defense. The ball was on the right hashmark. Diles was up on the los on the strong side. (defensive right side). Ryans was in the middle of the hashmarks and Adibi was on the right hashmark, just about lined up with the center. The play was zone blocked to the strong side with the right tackle sealing Mario as I mentioned. Bennett was outside Mario. I don't know what the hell Bennett was doing. Once the play started, he took himself completely out by running right up into Mario's back. Weird. Adibi took himself out of the play by ignoring his gap responsibility and going with the flow to his right. It was an easy play for AD and was basically all over but the shoutin' about 4 yards beyond the los. McCain was lightly engaged by a wide receiver, but AD is so fast, I'm not sure he could have made the play in that much space even if he was unblocked.

Adibi has to take most of the blame. Mario did nothing on the play. If Bennett has contain responsibilities, then Mario should be sliding over to help fill that gap. Bennett might as well not even have been on the field. Maybe what Mario did or didn't do confused him. Those three were the culprits.

idymoe 09-02-2009 12:13 PM

In an earlier post, I wrote that Barwin caused McKinney to have to tackle him, resulting in a holding penalty. Upon further review, it was 93, not 98, so Bulman had the strong rush from RE.

Also, I watched the 1st half again last night and was looking for Molden. I found him on that last series before the half. I thought he did reall well in run support and also had good coverage of his man. He took out McKinney on a sweep to his side, which allowed pursuit to catch up to the play and keep the gain small. He was also in on another tackle or two. He did let Rice make a nice move over the middle for a reception. That was the one that McCain had the big hit on.

painekiller 09-02-2009 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idymoe (Post 13454)
I replayed that run about 10 times last night in stop action. Mario was basically stood up at the los by one blocker. I'm not sure what "crashing inside" means. If he had penetrated outside the block, he would have been even more out of the play than he was. The right tackle basically had him sealed, and it appeared Mario was pretty content just to hold his position. Your likely correct in that assessment, Mario would have outside contain

Let me back-track and set up the defense. The ball was on the right hashmark. Diles was up on the los on the strong side. (defensive right side). Ryans was in the middle of the hashmarks and Adibi was on the right hashmark, just about lined up with the center. The play was zone blocked to the strong side with the right tackle sealing Mario as I mentioned. Bennett was outside Mario. I don't know what the hell Bennett was doing. Once the play started, he took himself completely out by running right up into Mario's back. Weird. Adibi took himself out of the play by ignoring his gap responsibility and going with the flow to his right. It was an easy play for AD and was basically all over but the shoutin' about 4 yards beyond the los. McCain was lightly engaged by a wide receiver, but AD is so fast, I'm not sure he could have made the play in that much space even if he was unblocked.

Adibi has to take most of the blame.In this defense the LBs have to fill the holes and not get blocked, Adibi is continuing a problem we have had since Kubiak got here, out OLBs have sucked and we need to upgrade the play of the younger LBs. Mario did nothing on the play. If Bennett has contain responsibilities, then Mario should be sliding over to help fill that gap. Bennett might as well not even have been on the field. Maybe what Mario did or didn't do confused him. Those three were the culprits.

Over pursuit is as bad in the NFL as under pursuit

idymoe 09-02-2009 04:57 PM

Here is a post-game quote by Kubiak. " But the bottom line, we made the same mistake on the backside of the play and how we insert on the play from a defensive end and corner standpoint." If Mario had contain on the play, then Bennett went as brain-dead as anyone I've ever seen. He literally ran right up into Mario's back for no apparent reason. It wouldn't surprise me if Mario was supposed to slide over into the gap and Bennett had contain. Bennett would have to loop around Mario to fill.

papabear 09-02-2009 04:58 PM

I have no idea what Mario's responsibility on that play was. That being said if the LB's are clean the defensive line did at least an OK job regardless of what their responsibilities are, and the LB's should be expected to make that play...or at least put up a little resistance.

idymoe 09-02-2009 05:12 PM

Adibi ran himself out of the play. If he stays home, he's cleaner than a broke-dick dog.

Big Texas 09-02-2009 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coloradodude (Post 13432)
Mario Williams had the best seat in the house last night on several run plays. He is no threat to the opponents run game, that's for certain.

Me personally, I think he made some mistakes in the backfield, but damn it he was in the backfield, which is more than I can say about our line backers minus Ryans. He cant do it all. I think he did his job by causing disruption in the backfield. There were times when Peterson was dead in the water in the backfield and there was no body there except Mario and by the time they got there, they were getting juked out their socks are completely ran over.

coloradodude 09-02-2009 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idymoe (Post 13454)

The right tackle basically had him sealed, and it appeared Mario was pretty content just to hold his position.



And my comment was not even about the first play because the LB's were responsible for making that tackle, not to mention a safety.

This quote does though sum up my feelings about Mario's play when it comes to the run. He excels at getting to the QB when he's told to go...and he better because he sucks at the run.

Another poster mentioned that the Texans lack a mean streak which I agree with. That starts with Mario. Reminds me of one of those 180 lb Rottweiler's that anyone can walk up to and pet. Sure he'll get his 10 to 14 sacks this year but I don't anticipate many double team situations on him.

Teams will have to account for Barwin though. He's coming every single play. And because of that, people are gonna think Mario is the best thing since sliced bread.

papabear 09-02-2009 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coloradodude (Post 13470)

Teams will have to account for Barwin though. He's coming every single play. And because of that, people are gonna think Mario is the best thing since sliced bread.

I have no problem holding the stars to a higher level, but saying Mario sucks against the run and then pimping Barwin makes no sense at all. Barwin has a great motor, but he's getting taken out of the play on the run pretty often. I think he's going to be very good, but he's still got to prove it...and he has a lot of work to do first.

I'm not saying Mario doesn't make mistakes against the run. He does. He clearly said "my bad" after one run play, but saying he sucks is taking it way too far in my opinion. I think some of Mario's problem is he feels like he has to do everything instead of just taking care of his own stuff. Barwin could help change that. Compared to other elite pass rushers Mario is better than most against the run.

dalemurphy 09-03-2009 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papabear (Post 13471)
I have no problem holding the stars to a higher level, but saying Mario sucks against the run and then pimping Barwin makes no sense at all. Barwin has a great motor, but he's getting taken out of the play on the run pretty often. I think he's going to be very good, but he's still got to prove it...and he has a lot of work to do first.

I'm not saying Mario doesn't make mistakes against the run. He does. He clearly said "my bad" after one run play, but saying he sucks is taking it way too far in my opinion. I think some of Mario's problem is he feels like he has to do everything instead of just taking care of his own stuff. Barwin could help change that. Compared to other elite pass rushers Mario is better than most against the run.


I'm sure some habits developed with Mario since he was literally the only player on the team that could provide pressure. As this season continues and other guys prove to be playmakers, I don't doubt we will see Mario play more disciplined against the run.

Regarding the Mario to Barwin comparison, certainly Mario is the better player. But, it is clear that Barwin has an intensity, motor, and tenacity that is very rare. Barring injury, that guy is going to be a special player and there are about 50 guys on the team that could learn a few things watching that guy play. He and Demeco are at the ball every single play, regardless of where the play goes... His backside pursuit is something we've never had here.


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