Originally Posted by Keith (Post 11875)

I hate commenting on this though because we don't know what's really happening with these negotiations. If you think you know just because you saw it reported on the chron or somewhere else, then in reality you only know an angle of it filtered through the lens of someone who may or may not trust and understand the info him/herself.

Originally Posted by papabear (Post 11879)

My point is that the chron either parrots what the team tells them just on their word, or is told what the contract offer actually is and doesn't understand it enough to give an accurate picture of what the offer really is.

Originally Posted by Keith (Post 11880)

Even Richard Justice doesn't believe what McClain reports in his own paper on Texans contract negotiations, so why should we?

Originally Posted by Keith (Post 11878)

So Daniels' camp is disclaiming ownership of the contract details link, and now later in that chron link above Smith says he wants to keep negotiations private. And if you want more blah blah on this, Kuharsky has a post at the worldwide.

Originally Posted by kravix (Post 11889)

With so many reports about salary offers and salary demands flying around it is hard to belive any of it.

I will say that if OD really is holding out to be paid #1 instead of #4-6 as he should be getting then I would rather see him go. I dont know him personally, but he has never struck me as that kind of guy.

The fact that OD and Drob are both represented by the same agents, and all the crazyness that has gone on around these negotiations really concerns me that perhaps the agents are not on the up and up. If I remember correctly Demeco had the same guys and fired them to pick up the same agent as MW.

What if the Texans did offer #2 and the agents went to OD and gave him a different number, and the same with Drob. Is there anything the league could do after the fact to ensure that players and teams arent getting the run around from shady agents?

If, just if, any of the numbers that have come out for OD and Drob are true, and the Texans have said they offered top money to Drob, it may be possible that much of this is over structures rather than ammounts. We have a cap guru sitting in the Texans FO and it is possible that they are getting a little too cute with their contracts.

Originally Posted by kravix (Post 11889)

The fact that OD and Drob are both represented by the same agents, and all the crazyness that has gone on around these negotiations really concerns me that perhaps the agents are not on the up and up. If I remember correctly Demeco had the same guys and fired them to pick up the same agent as MW.

Originally Posted by painekiller (Post 11907)

Dunta is repressented by Jason Chayut ,and Owen's agents are Alan Herman and David Butz.

Not sure where Lance came up with they have the same agent.

Originally Posted by edo783 (Post 11908)

I think he said "Agent Group". Given that, these guys might be from the same firm, just different agents, but operating on some sort of group think. Not sure if that is it or not, just tossing it out there.

Originally Posted by Keith (Post 11912)

Yes, all three are agents from the firm Sportstars, Inc.

btw, Owen had this to say on Monday night via Facebook:

Originally Posted by papabear (Post 11914)

what that says to me is that the Texans are saying Winslows deal is unreasonable and we are not going to use that as a basis for a contract with Owen. O.D. is saying that's market value for a top TE right now.

Originally Posted by Keith (Post 11916)

You are probably right. While we may or may not think Winslow's deal is reasonable, Daniels' camp is right to reference it in the negotiations imo.

The Texans, however, still have the leverage here, especially in the absence of a new CBA. Daniels is a RFA, and there is little he can do to push his point assuming he'll cease his life as a holdout at some point. The question is just going to be how far apart the two parties are.

Originally Posted by nunusguy (Post 11917)

I dunno, but it seems stunning to me how far Owen Daniels and his agents got ahead of themselves on this deal and I honestly think his demands are totally unreasonable if not outragous if he's thinking anything like 20 M guaranteed. As I recall AJ only got about 15 M in guaranteed money on his new deal just a couple years ago ?
Daniels is a good TE, but not in the league of Gonzales or Gates or others and he appears to have a very inflated idea of his value to the team. If he got what these reports seem to imply he's after, just imagine what the Texans would have to cough up for DeMeco (not to mention Mario, Shaub, & others down the road). And of course they'd have to rewrite AJs deal.
And they just drafted 2 more TEs this year and Dressen isn't a bad backup for OD, while being at 260 quite a bit bigger than OD. Now that OD has signed
his tender, isn't he ripe as trade bait ? I'd consider trading him for a high 2nd, and be all over any 1st round pick.

Originally Posted by nunusguy (Post 11917)

... just a couple years ago ?

Originally Posted by barrett (Post 11918)

It would appear we are hoping that Daniels can be replaced in what is a very TE friendly offense.

Originally Posted by Keith (Post 11919)

And lest we forget, Daniels was in the Pro Bowl last year. Actually, if memory serves, he had a pretty good game, too.

Originally Posted by nunusguy (Post 11920)

He was Will Demps II, a guy who was a substitute on the Pro-Bowl team a couple years ago who didn't get to make the trip and was later cut by the Texans and is no longer even on the team. He may be out of football for all I know ?
As a sub Daniels got lucky when Gates or somebody cancelled out and he went to Hawaii and actually got in the game, caught a couple passes, even a TD pass. For being a lucky sub he's now worth 20 M guaranteed ?
On the other hand I say pay DeMeco, really whatever it takes because he's our best D player (sorry Mario), and the leader of the D ?

Originally Posted by Keith (Post 11919)

I don't mean to be blunt, but this is sorta the point: Welcome to 2009. The NFL's barometer for salaries increases significantly every year.

And lest we forget, Daniels was in the Pro Bowl last year. Actually, if memory serves, he had a pretty good game, too.



Yes, this interpretation worries me some. Are some fans damning him because they perceive the Texans as employers of a TE-friendly offense?

Daniels:
2008 70-862-2
2007 63-768-3
2006 34-352-5

Bronco Leading TEs:
2006 Tony Scheffler 18-286-4
2005 Jeb Putzier 37-481-0
2004 Jeb Putzier 36-572-2
2003 Shannon Sharpe 62-770-8
2002 Shannon Sharpe 61-686-3
2001 Dwayne Carswell 34-299-4

You have to go back to Shannon Sharpe before you find numbers as good as Daniels'. And Sharpe's stood out among other Bronco TEs, i.e. Sharpe is the reason Sharpe was good, not just the TE-friendly offense. He was a Hall of Fame finalist this year.

Daniels has out-performed Putzier and Scheffler, the former who knew the offense better when he arrived in Houston three years ago, and the latter who was picked two rounds before Daniels. Maybe Daniels is the reason Daniels is good?

I am hopeful Casey is Daniels v2.0. Actually, I think Dreesen gets a chance before Casey. But no one knows for sure how good they can be and how soon.

btw, an extension or a re-worked contract isn't out of the question for Angry Dre, especially if his deal falls out of the top 10 or something.

Originally Posted by barrett (Post 11922)

Denver is not Houston and the offenses are not identical. Certainly not in how we run them. The rushing stats bear that out.

Our offense is far more TE friendly than Denver's, perhaps by subtle differences in design, but certainly due to Andre Johnson and Matt Schaub.

Johnson is constantly bracketed with a safety which means our TEs are constantly working in space against LBs. There is no parallel to AJ in the Denver offense, so their TEs don't have the space or success ours have.

Additionally Schaub is characterized by mediocre arm strength, good accuracy, and getting the ball out quickly. All of these factors lend themselves to the TE getting the ball. Cutler (and even Plummer before him), are total opposites.

It is not relevant what Denver TEs do when deciding how hard it is/how much talent is needed for a Houston TE to succeed. I think Daniels is a smart and tough player who is in a perfect fit to make him look far better than he is. Not to mention that even with the good stats he was ineffective in the red zone last year, fumbled too much, and is not a great blocker. He is one of my favorite Texans, but he is nowhere near a top NFL TE.