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TexanJedi 01-26-2009 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jppaul (Post 7593)
On another note, apart from that fumble, I was really impressed with Peerman, and am interested in him as a complement to Slaton.

Yes, Cedric Peerman has me interested as well. I looked at his college stats and I can't see where he fumbled, ever. He's only listed at 208 but he seemed bigger to me. Whereas Andre Brown is listed at more than 225 but does not run like a big back, if that makes sense.

Lance Zierlein has a chat on his blog with Rob Rang from NFL Draft Scout, and they were discussing the possiblity of Brian Cushing at OLB on most downs and dropping down to pass rushing end on obvious passing situations. I thought that sounded interesting.

Roy P 01-26-2009 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexanJedi (Post 7594)
Lance Zierlein has a chat on his blog with Rob Rang from NFL Draft Scout, and they were discussing the possiblity of Brian Cushing at OLB on most downs and dropping down to pass rushing end on obvious passing situations. I thought that sounded interesting.

I guess LZ has been listening to me for the past 4 years. That's exactly what I want for a SAM. I thought the Texans had bought into the idea when we signed Chaun Thompson. It's why I'm pimpin Cody Brown of UConn this year and Cliff Avril last year and Tim Shaw the year before and Chris Gocong before that.

painekiller 01-26-2009 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NBT (Post 7584)
Uhhh, didn't Clay Mathews play for Cleveland? I'm pretty sure he did. I remember he was pretty tough on our Oilers.

I assumed everyone knew who Bruce and Clay Jr. played for in the NFL. The LB at UCS right now is Clay III. I am sorry for any confusion.

jppaul 01-26-2009 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy P (Post 7603)
I guess LZ has been listening to me for the past 4 years. That's exactly what I want for a SAM. I thought the Texans had bought into the idea when we signed Chaun Thompson. It's why I'm pimpin Cody Brown of UConn this year and Cliff Avril last year and Tim Shaw the year before and Chris Gocong before that.

Didn't you just say that a SAM was a waste of a first round draft pick

barrett 01-27-2009 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jppaul (Post 7612)
Didn't you just say that a SAM was a waste of a first round draft pick

a sam is a waste because they are 2 down players who basically just stick their nose in against the run, which makes it an easy role to fill.

If your SAM puts a hand on the ground and rushes the QB he has a 3rd down value and it changes things quite a bit. But this is a far different skill than blitzing. It is actually lining up at end. Very rarely does a guy do both of these things, but if he is good at SAM and great at rushing the QB, he may be worth a 1st.

nunusguy 01-27-2009 07:03 AM

How about Connor Barwin, the 2-way guy from the U of Cinci ?
Let him be depth as one of our 3-4 TEs (Kubiak hordes TEs), and be in the game on defense to rush the QB. One guy who covers 2 rosters slots, the ultimate utility player. And with that name he could also be a partner in McNairs/the-Texans law firm. So then really three for the price of one ?

jppaul 01-27-2009 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrett (Post 7614)
a sam is a waste because they are 2 down players who basically just stick their nose in against the run, which makes it an easy role to fill.

If your SAM puts a hand on the ground and rushes the QB he has a 3rd down value and it changes things quite a bit. But this is a far different skill than blitzing. It is actually lining up at end. Very rarely does a guy do both of these things, but if he is good at SAM and great at rushing the QB, he may be worth a 1st.

Lets say you have an SLB who can cover Dallas Clark or Antonio Gates, are they a waste? I understand what you are saying but I think you are wrong about an SLB being a waste. As for SLB as a difference maker, I disagree, they may not be flashy in the way that a MLB is, but if you have ever watched the Texans get torched by a TE, then you can't possibly say that they are not impact players.

Is a CB who blankets recievers but doesn't get a whole lot of picks not an impact player? Impact player encompasses more than flashy stats or topical glory.

I am still hoping we draft Cushing btw, i recognize that that is probably not the course we choose, but there it is.

Nconroe 01-27-2009 07:51 PM

Cushing sounds pretty good. A little injury history. Most currently project him around 23 in draft. Do we take at 15 or hope for a trade down to the likely value position. Sounds like he is a good tackler as well as covers the TE well, and some good size. If we think DL is covered might be good.

Roy P 01-27-2009 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jppaul (Post 7612)
Didn't you just say that a SAM was a waste of a first round draft pick

I think we can get a SAM in the 3rd round. The Texans have not utilized the SAM position they way I have proposed though. I'm not quite sure they are looking for a guy to put his hand on the ground on 3rd down, nor is it easy to find a guy who can cover Dallas Clark man to man. It's my opinion that the SAM and the SS could double cover the TE to make up for single coverage by a guy who isn't a CB. Also, if a guy is a threat to rush the passer, the TE may be less likely to go out on a pass pattern and be asked to stay in to protect the QB. A guy like Cody Brown is accustomed to fighting OTs at the line of scrimmage and getting pressure on the QB, so putting him up against a TE seems like an advantage to me. That's why I wouldn't be as inclined to draft Cushing in the 1st round. In fact, I'd only draft Cushing to play the MIKE and then use him like Urlacher and have him be the guy playing the deep 3rd when we went to a Cover-2 Scheme. That is contingent upon his Combine numbers though.

barrett 01-27-2009 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jppaul (Post 7626)
Lets say you have an SLB who can cover Dallas Clark or Antonio Gates, are they a waste? I understand what you are saying but I think you are wrong about an SLB being a waste. As for SLB as a difference maker, I disagree, they may not be flashy in the way that a MLB is, but if you have ever watched the Texans get torched by a TE, then you can't possibly say that they are not impact players.

Is a CB who blankets recievers but doesn't get a whole lot of picks not an impact player? Impact player encompasses more than flashy stats or topical glory.

I am still hoping we draft Cushing btw, i recognize that that is probably not the course we choose, but there it is.

No they are not a waste. They are a WLB or a MLB because nobody puts that guy in that position, they put him where he can make plays.

jppaul 01-28-2009 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrett (Post 7638)
No they are not a waste. They are a WLB or a MLB because nobody puts that guy in that position, they put him where he can make plays.

Is covering Antonio Gates not making a play?

barrett 01-28-2009 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jppaul (Post 7648)
Is covering Antonio Gates not making a play?

That is my point. If a guy is capable of covering Antonio Gates, then he is not playing SLB.

jppaul 01-28-2009 07:31 PM

But if he is at WLB then he is not covering Gates.

barrett 01-28-2009 10:37 PM

Well honestly no LB is covering Gates or the top TEs in man coverage, or at least not well. Those guys are covered by safeties on almost every pass route.

But either way my point is that (1) guys who can cover Antonio Gates 1 on 1 are not playing SLB and (2) NFL teams don't ask their SLB to man up on a TE like gates so its irrelevant. In a 4-3 about %90 of the SLB's job is to fill the hole and tackle in the run game. And they all exit the game in passing situations, and most play less than the nickel corner. They are part time players. It is not a speed position or one that requires huge talent. For the most part it is veteran guys who don't get paid much. Bentley played the role for us very well.

jppaul 01-29-2009 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrett (Post 7669)
Well honestly no LB is covering Gates or the top TEs in man coverage, or at least not well. Those guys are covered by safeties on almost every pass route.

But either way my point is that (1) guys who can cover Antonio Gates 1 on 1 are not playing SLB and (2) NFL teams don't ask their SLB to man up on a TE like gates so its irrelevant. In a 4-3 about %90 of the SLB's job is to fill the hole and tackle in the run game. And they all exit the game in passing situations, and most play less than the nickel corner. They are part time players. It is not a speed position or one that requires huge talent. For the most part it is veteran guys who don't get paid much. Bentley played the role for us very well.

Barrett, I understand your point, I just disagree with you. A SLB who can cover Gates and does cover Gates allows the safety to stay deep, which is an asset because the CHargers run Gates in the seams and the intermediate middle to get the remaining safety to bite so that they can go over the top to Jackson. Having a SLB who can cover him would not be a waste of resources. Sometimes the Broncos use arguably the top corner in the game to cover Gates, that is not a waste of resources, and the question becomes relevant.

barrett 01-29-2009 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jppaul (Post 7685)
Barrett, I understand your point, I just disagree with you. A SLB who can cover Gates and does cover Gates allows the safety to stay deep, which is an asset because the CHargers run Gates in the seams and the intermediate middle to get the remaining safety to bite so that they can go over the top to Jackson. Having a SLB who can cover him would not be a waste of resources. Sometimes the Broncos use arguably the top corner in the game to cover Gates, that is not a waste of resources, and the question becomes relevant.

You're fooling yourself if you think any of the SLB prospects can cover Gates. I'd be suprised if any of the safety prospects can cover the top TEs in the NFL.

As for the SLB position and it's relevance in the NFL, I give you 3 names...Chris Gocong, Marcus Washington, and Danny Clark. Do you know who they are? Don't feel bad if you don't. Nobody does. But they are the starting SLBs on the best 4-3 defenses in the NFL.

jppaul 01-29-2009 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrett (Post 7686)
You're fooling yourself if you think any of the SLB prospects can cover Gates. I'd be suprised if any of the safety prospects can cover the top TEs in the NFL.

As for the SLB position and it's relevance in the NFL, I give you 3 names...Chris Gocong, Marcus Washington, and Danny Clark. Do you know who they are? Don't feel bad if you don't. Nobody does. But they are the starting SLBs on the best 4-3 defenses in the NFL.

Chris Gocong played for the eagles last time I checked. Marcus Washington was another good linebacker that the Colts lost in free agency, and now plays for the Redskins. He has lost a step though and is not nearly as efficient as he used to be. Danny Clark played Strongside for us a couple years ago, I think we got him from the Raiders, although I am not sure where he ended up, we let him depart via free agency.

jppaul 01-29-2009 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrett (Post 7686)
You're fooling yourself if you think any of the SLB prospects can cover Gates. I'd be suprised if any of the safety prospects can cover the top TEs in the NFL.

As for the SLB position and it's relevance in the NFL, I give you 3 names...Chris Gocong, Marcus Washington, and Danny Clark. Do you know who they are? Don't feel bad if you don't. Nobody does. But they are the starting SLBs on the best 4-3 defenses in the NFL.

Lets try a name: D.J. Williams? You probably should feel bad if you don't recognize that one?

Granted, there is not alot of name recognition with SLB but they certainly serve an important role. That being noted I am alright with Drafting Cushing and putting him on the WLB. Adibi is a good prospect but I have questions about his ability to stay healthy.

I would take him in the first, Michael Johnson or Paul Kruger in the second, Rashad Johnson or Patrick Chung in the third, Myron Pryor or Jarron Gilbert in the fourth, Pat White or Rhett Bhomar in the fifth, Graham Cano in the 6th, Deandre Wright in the 7th.

Then the LB core would look like:

barrett 01-29-2009 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jppaul (Post 7690)
Lets try a name: D.J. Williams? You probably should feel bad if you don't recognize that one?

Granted, there is not alot of name recognition with SLB but they certainly serve an important role. That being noted I am alright with Drafting Cushing and putting him on the WLB. Adibi is a good prospect but I have questions about his ability to stay healthy.

I would take him in the first, Michael Johnson or Paul Kruger in the second, Rashad Johnson or Patrick Chung in the third, Myron Pryor or Jarron Gilbert in the fourth, Pat White or Rhett Bhomar in the fifth, Graham Cano in the 6th, Deandre Wright in the 7th.

Then the LB core would look like:

And do you know what the Broncos got for the 1st round pick they invested in Williams? All of 6.5 sacks and 2 INTs in 5 years. Now he plays solid, but that is just my point. SLB is a place to put a solid guy. If you put an athlete there, you are wasting them. They simply don't get a chance to make plays.

Now if you want Cushing in particular and think he can play the WLB, then I won't argue with you. I don't know enough about him to say, but if he can, then I could see picking him in the right circumstance. The WLB is still not a huge impact position in the 4-3, but they are 3 down players who have chances to make plays, so if a guy is a great enough WLB, they could have a 1st round impact. I would still go another direction unless BPA clearly indicated he was head and shoulders above the available DL and FS prospects, but a great WLB could be a big plus for us.

But a "great" SLB is just not worth a 1st round pick if you plan to play him at SLB.

jppaul 01-29-2009 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrett (Post 7692)
And do you know what the Broncos got for the 1st round pick they invested in Williams? All of 6.5 sacks and 2 INTs in 5 years. Now he plays solid, but that is just my point. SLB is a place to put a solid guy. If you put an athlete there, you are wasting them. They simply don't get a chance to make plays.

Now if you want Cushing in particular and think he can play the WLB, then I won't argue with you. I don't know enough about him to say, but if he can, then I could see picking him in the right circumstance. The WLB is still not a huge impact position in the 4-3, but they are 3 down players who have chances to make plays, so if a guy is a great enough WLB, they could have a 1st round impact. I would still go another direction unless BPA clearly indicated he was head and shoulders above the available DL and FS prospects, but a great WLB could be a big plus for us.

But a "great" SLB is just not worth a 1st round pick if you plan to play him at SLB.

Again we will disagree, and I will agree to disagree in order to stop wasting other readers time, with our disagreement.

On another note, some of the WLB's who do make an impact inlcude: Derrick Brooks, Lance Briggs, A.J. Hawk, Keith Bulluck, etc.

None of the FS prospects seem to be worth the #15 pick, and although several of the D-line prospects are worth that pick, I would go a different direction.

barrett 01-29-2009 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jppaul (Post 7695)
Again we will disagree, and I will agree to disagree in order to stop wasting other readers time, with our disagreement.

On another note, some of the WLB's who do make an impact inlcude: Derrick Brooks, Lance Briggs, A.J. Hawk, Keith Bulluck, etc.

None of the FS prospects seem to be worth the #15 pick, and although several of the D-line prospects are worth that pick, I would go a different direction.

I agree with all of that and hope we can trade down.

As for WLBs I agreed with you. I said that although it is not a big impact position, the guys who play it great are impact players.

As for wasting other reader's time, its the offseason and I think we may just be talking to each other.

Roy P 01-29-2009 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrett (Post 7697)

As for wasting other reader's time, its the offseason and I think we may just be talking to each other.

Nah, it's kind of like watching tennis.

As for trading down, I am still hopeful for big time player to come to us. Last year it was Branden Albert who was not suppose to last. In 2005 it was Derrick Johnson. In 04 there was D.J. Williams and Will Smith. Perhaps this year Raji will still be on the board or maybe Everette Brown. It always seems as if getting a 1st round RB is a pretty decent choice in this area, maybe LeSean McCoy, Knowshon Moreno, or Donald Brown. My personal favorite is Aaron Curry, but that's just me. For the record, I'd play him at the WILL.

jppaul 01-31-2009 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrett (Post 7697)
I agree with all of that and hope we can trade down.

As for WLBs I agreed with you. I said that although it is not a big impact position, the guys who play it great are impact players.

As for wasting other reader's time, its the offseason and I think we may just be talking to each other.

Yeah but is there anything more annoying than two people standing around beating a dead horse for weeks?

jppaul 01-31-2009 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy P (Post 7700)
Nah, it's kind of like watching tennis.

As for trading down, I am still hopeful for big time player to come to us. Last year it was Branden Albert who was not suppose to last. In 2005 it was Derrick Johnson. In 04 there was D.J. Williams and Will Smith. Perhaps this year Raji will still be on the board or maybe Everette Brown. It always seems as if getting a 1st round RB is a pretty decent choice in this area, maybe LeSean McCoy, Knowshon Moreno, or Donald Brown. My personal favorite is Aaron Curry, but that's just me. For the record, I'd play him at the WILL.

Man every mock I have seen and every draft ranking board has him somewhere around the top 5. I would be happy to play him at will.

What about drafting Malualaga and moving DRyan over to Will, where he can make more impact plays and could possibly stay healthy for an entire season.

Roy P 01-31-2009 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jppaul (Post 7717)
What about drafting Malualaga and moving DRyan over to Will, where he can make more impact plays and could possibly stay healthy for an entire season.

Talk about kicking a dead horse, there has been much discussion on moving Ryans to the WILL after drafting (insert favorite MLB here) to take on larger OL and attacking the RB.

I will say once again that my perspective is that DeMeco is most productive at the MLB position and does not have the athleticism to chase plays from the WLB. The best way to keep our MIKE healthy would be to improve the DL in front of him. Maybe Jeff Zgonina will retire and just start coaching. Maybe Frank Okam will get a fire lit under his ass by Coach Kollar or simply go to Law School. I wonder if we could trade Travis Johnson or at least get him to play better than DelJuan Robinson. Okoye had a whopping 24 tackles.

Just as a painful reminder, does anybody remember when the Texans traded for WR Eric Moulds? I was upset that we gave away a 4th round pick, that same pick was utilized on a guy that I liked from LSU DT Kyle Williams. Well coach Kollar took a 4th round effort guy and had him post 53, 41, and 55 tackles the last 3 seasons. I'm hopeful we'll get something like that from our DTs. The guy next to him, Marcus Stroud, had 45 tackles.

If I compare them to the Eagles, Brodrick Bunkley had 47 tackles and Mike Patterson slipped down to 42 tackles after posting 67 the year before.

Anyway, we can talk about how much money we've already spent on the DL and if it is a good idea to draft a player like Jeria Perry, BJ Raji, Sen'Derrick Marks, etc. However, until the DL starts performing, it won't matter who we have in the LB corps or the Secondary.

gunslinger57 01-31-2009 09:43 PM

For our draftniks I wanted to ask for a scouting report.

While channel surfing I ran into the callege football skills event on ESPN, or whatever it's called, and saw the receivers and Ramses Barden. I know our record with small school WRs isn't good, and I'm not advocating taking an offensive player in the first 3 or 4 rounds unless someone inexplicably falls, but what's the story on him, and where does he project in the draft? I know WR isn't a "need" position for the Texans, but a 6'6", 230 lb. target opposite AJ is an intriguing notion.

Roy P 01-31-2009 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunslinger57 (Post 7727)
For our draftniks I wanted to ask for a scouting report.

While channel surfing I ran into the callege football skills event on ESPN, or whatever it's called, and saw the receivers and Ramses Barden.

I know WR isn't a "need" position for the Texans, but a 6'6", 230 lb. target opposite AJ is an intriguing notion.

Let me give you some names....
Brian Poli-Dixon - 6'5" 210lb 4.48 UCLA 2002
Tyrone Calico - 6'4" 223lbs 4.34 Middle Tenn State 2003
Reggie Williams - 6'4" 225lbs 4.62 Washington 2004
Mike Williams - 6'5" 229lbs 4.56 USC 2005
Maurice Stovall - 6'5" 217lbs 4.57 Notre Dame 2006

Don't get too enamored with the height is the point I'm making. A WR needs to be able to get separation and catch the ball. Ramses Barden can't really do either. He was horrid during the Senior Bowl week practices. The only time I saw him make a catch was when he went up against SS prospects who aren't really going to be covering a WR man-to-man. Barden is suspected to go in the 4th round. We'd be better off getting short, but effective, Mike Thomas from Arizona to play the slot WR and return specialist.

gunslinger57 02-01-2009 12:09 AM

Yeah I know I know. Just the thought of having a huge target opposite AJ and Walters killing people underneath in 3 WR sets makes me feel funny.


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