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Similarly we our focusing a large portion of our cap into one area, again to the neglect of other positions. Certainly, everybody is correct, we are not in fact the Lions. Thank you for clearing that up. All I was saying is that other teams follies may serve as educational, in the same way history is educational. A what not to do blue print, so to speak. What teams does this saturation drafting, to the degree in which we have done, actually payoff. Didn't payoff for the Lions, didn't payoff for us, who did it pay off for? This is not a rhetorical question. A dlineman can make a bad team better, but so can a WR, and on that i disagree with you. If you have a good Oline and a good QB, your passing offense could still suck if your recievers can't uncover. Call it something analagous to the David Carr effect, one that is applicable to WRs. The Vikings had arguably the best d-line the year before last but becuase they had secondary problems they still couldn't stop anybody. Why should we continue to dedicate our resources to a position, that we have already invested the majority of our best chances to get quality players, to the neglect of other positions. That is my question. |
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Otherwise you could say we have put fewer resources into WR than almost any position on the team the last 4 years so we should be looking to draft WRs. But this is not relevant. You draft on what you have and what you need, not on what you allocated. Your line of reasoning is the type that led Charlie Casserly to offer up Boselli as an excuse for why he never got a decent LT (We tried previously so we get to turn our attention elsewhere). The DL is probably our worst or 2nd worst position group along with Secondary. Both have had first day draft picks and FA money thrown their way and we remain in need of upgrading in both areas far more so than at LB or anywhere on the offense. Hopefully a DT, FS, or DE is worthy of being drafted at 15 when we hit the clock. |
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On top of that, guys taken from the middle-late first round don't eat up near as much space as some people might think. TJ's cap number this year was 1.9 mill. Next year it will be 2.2. Far from a bargain, but not a cap killer by any means from a pickk that was around the same point in the draft as we will have this year. So taking the same position in the first round every year hurts a lot worse if all of the picks are top 5 than if you are a little farther back. |
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That team has taken 15 straight first round d-linemen. DL is still the greatest need for that team. By your line of reasoning, keep taking the DL. Basically your line of reasoning is advocating for beating your head against a concrete wall. Personally I'll pass, but maybe someone else is interested. |
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his 3-4 ? Watching this weeks Senior-Bowl practice, there were gobs of those prospects out there in the 235-255 lb range who had the kinda quicks off the edge to play the position. And that's not even counting all of the prospects that were absent like FSUs Brown, UTs Orakpo, and undercalssmen Maybin, and many others. It just seems to me that the front 7 in the 3-4 is easier to populate than the 4-3, and of course that's always been an argument for the scheme. BTW, did you see that Capers is taking his 3-4 to the NFC North ? http://www.studyofsports.com/?p=1028 We all knew big things were in store for the Packers when Mike McCarthy summarily dismissed most of his defensive staff after a disappointing 6-10 season. What few were expecting was for McCarthy to stake his, and the team’s, future on the installation of the 3-4 scheme with the hiring of Dom Capers as Defensive Coordinator. Most younger Packers fans, myself included, have only seen the 4-3 defense played in Green Bay. This sudden change, and McCarthy’s words on the matter, are somewhat surprising considering that McCarthy will no doubt be facing pressure to take the division back next season after the collapse of the defense and special teams this season. |
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If you look at actual play on the field, DL is one of our worst 2 position groups so it should be one of our priorities to upgrade (along with secondary). This does NOT mean we should draft a DL in the first round. It DOES mean we should not rule out drafting a DL in the first round. If it comes to our pick and a DL is the best player on our board, I would expect us to take him. If not I would expect to see a DE in the 2nd or 3rd round. You said you had a serious question asking why we would take a DL again and this is a serious answer. Why don't you tell us a few positions that are more in need of an upgrade on our team and what direction we should be going in round 1. I'll accept safety, but I don't see anywhere else where we need help more. |
According to NFLDraftCountdown, the Texans were spotted with Clay Matthews (LB USC), Mohamed Massaquoi (WR Georgia), and Coye Francies (CB/KR San Jose St.) at the Senior Bowl. Make of that what you will.
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The patriots in the building of their defense from 2001-2004 (4 years) spent three 1st, one 2nd, and two 4th round picks on DL. And take into account that they play a 3-4 and are only filing 3 spots. So 6 players picked in 4 years to fill 4 spots. And it payed off big time. Half a decade later those guys still make up the top 4 spots on one of the best 3-4 lines in football. So the problem is not with over-investing in one position. The problem is with doing a bad job of it (like we have on some of these picks). And I think that's where your argument comes from. The frustration that comes from these guys blowing picks is doubled when they keep blowing them in the same area. Well remember this staff has only had 2 drafts and they have only taken ONE DL in those 2 drafts. You can't expect them to ignore team needs based on who Casserly drafted in 2005. |
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That is a bit extreme obviously, but you are lying to yourself if you think, that cap ramifications don't factor in. |
where to draft, I am also some combination of BPA tempered within the top few needs, so trade downs are often good.
our defense was overall 23rd last year, DL like 30th in least sacks and DBs like 28th in fewest turnover/interceptions. seems draft should focus on defense since offense was third ranked overall. But these are young guys, some injuries, some player and coach turnover. And what was their ranking say last 5 games when seemed to have better defensive results. So, maybe our DL picks are skilled guys who just need the right coaching and some maturity and health overall. Anyways, lots of fun this time of the year speculating on how new coaches and draft will do this coming year. I think if a Raji were there at 15 its a no brainer , draft him. if gone, not sure, see who's BPA. So far, I don't like what I've seen of Will Moore for safety. |
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As for Raji suspension, my understanding is the school mismanaged his credits and he became ineligible. While he was away, he found out how much he missed the game and rededicated himself. Had he played last year, we would have know of him. |
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Then you have a problem with scouts, GM, the draft in general. |
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This current staff has picked one DL (okoye) and the jury is still out. This one pick does not disqualify them from attempting to fix an obvious problem area. |
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Matthews is no surprise, nor is a corner but the GA WR is intriguing ? I dunno, but you gotta think that the Texans are getting a bit uneasy about Jacobey J., so guess that could explain their interest in a WR plus another player they are talking to who has experience as a KR (Jacobeys main job up to now) ? BTW, just how is Clay Matthews related to Oilers/Titans HOFer Bruce ? I'm thinkin Bruce had a brother named Clay who played for the Browns, and if so that would probably make the USC LB Bruces nephew ? |
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Cap ramifications do factor in, and there is little doubt that NFL teams have players that are taken with low draft picks where they are making up where their cap dollars are invested; however, OL and DL are the 2 most important positions on the team. They are the building blocks of a franchise, so justifying cap space for 8-9 slots is warranted. Also, in Barretts example, although extreme, let's be real. If you took 15 straight DL, not all 15 would be there tying up cap space. The same is going to be true of us. Anthony Weaver will be gone in the near future, and possibly Travis Johnson as well. So, the future of the DL, if Raji is drafted, won't be like having all these guys plus him. Granted, it is frustrating drafting all these guys and seeing little results. I still have high hopes for Okoye...... |
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While I like Cody Brown, I'm not 100% sure that he would be the next Joey Porter, much less DeMarcus Ware. There are more Matt Roths and Dan Bazuins in the draft than Shawne Merrimans. Sidbury and Veikune could be more like Ken Pettway and Travis Laboy than Shaun Phillips. Trying to project a college DE into a standup OLB is pretty tricky business. |
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Which is why I have been advocating for Michael Johnson in the second. Additionally, I think our biggest need this year transcends any one position. We need an impact player, someone that comes in and makes a big splash, and the easiest area to do that is LB, which is why Vilma, Willis and Demeco were all DROY. The value in the draft would also lie in LB at 15. I like either Maluluaga or Cushing personally. Cushing could play strongside, with Malualaga you might have to make some moves. |
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Malualaga might add something to the defense. However, since we have Ryans, that makes even less sense than drafting a NT. Sure, you could move DeMeco to the WILL, but the GM just drafted Adibi, so why keep adding to the LB corps? |
Because it might just work! As you say it's hard to tell this time of year. All we can do is speculate. So speculate on.
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His two sons Clay Jr. and Bruce both played at USC and then in the NFL. Clay's son Clay III, was a walk on at USC and this season became a starter, and difference maker. BTW Bruce has a son playing OC at Texas A&M. |
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An interesting trend in college is the spread offense. And college defenses are getting smaller to deal with the spread. Now if 80% of the colleges go with the smaller quicker defense, how will that effect the drafting of defensive players? Also remember the 3-4 usually is about putting bigger guys on the field. Plus sized NTs, Plus sized DEs, plus sized Lbs. Where is the NFL going to find that player when the college go to speed defenses? I am tired of our team following the trends, become a trail blazer, develop something unique. Make the other team react to you. Why not bring back the 2 back sets where both guys carry the ball? Why not have two 3-gap DTs playing at the same time and both attaching the ball. |
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Mario Williams------Amobi Okoye------BJ Raji------Darryl Richard------Cody Brown --------------------------------------Brian Cushing Fred Bennett -----------------------------------------------------------------Keenan Lewis -------------------- Keith Fitzhugh------------------------Antwaun Molden ---------------------------------------C.J. Spillman I'm not advocating that we trade DeMeco, just an idea of what a new defense would look like that was built to play against passing offenses, while still being effective vs. the run. |
interesting ideas for changing up the defenses, I was thinking CB's should all have man-man skills, hard to find the speed and size combo, I realize that. I guess with our new coaches we will see some changes for sure this year. Seems Baltimore, a few others put 8 in the box to get a lot of their pressure, and then pressure comes so fast it works. Is Baltimore and Pittsburg and NYG big guys, seems that is working pretty well.
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Perhaps I'm getting more pessimistic and cynical as I go through this every year. For some reason, I'm not exceptionally fired up about many of the prospects. All I am seeing is projects and not difference makers in this group. Raji appeared pretty impressive during the week, but in the game today, he was pretty quiet. Peria Jerry had a pretty good showing, but I'm hesitant to wanting to draft another player like Okoye or Travis Johnson. The LBs in the game were marginal (including the USC group). TE Pettigrew was lackluster. I'm trying to formulate a My Guys list and it might be short. WR Crabtree WR Maclin LB Curry NT Raji DT Jerry There's my 1st round picks. If all 5 are off the board, I'm trading down if possible. |
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No feel for the outside rushers that could be available? Maybin or Brown? Maclin, Raji, and Jerry could be available at our draft slot, likely only one of them, does that discount what a true outside rusher would add to the defense immediately? Brown is more ready than Maybin, except, perhaps, in your 5-1-5. Orakpo should be gone. I'm all for adding picks, but if one of these guys can come in and add 10 total sacks (as a whole for the defense) and 20 more pressures, is that not the difference between 8-8 and 11-5?
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BTW, about last nights game, I could have sworn I saw Raji on the field once or twice but I dunno if I heard his name a single time ? The guy looked great in practice this week but apparently left Mobile before last nights kickoff ? Slatons former QB teammate pretty much guaranteed himself a spot in the Draft someplace in the first 2 rounds after last nights performance, though the verdict is still out about him playing QB. I don't think Graham Harrell will be sending Mike Mayoc a Christmas card this year ? Mayoc really trashed his performance, not that it wasn't evident for the whole football world to see. I thought Bomar was impressive despite fumbing in the EZ thereby letting the D recover and score a TD. He's got a strong arm and showed his athleticism in a couple scrambles out of the pocket. I dunno, is he there for us in the third-round ? |
I would avoid any QB at the Senior Bowl except for Pat White. He's got the arm and legs but is he big enough and can he read an NFL defense? Bomar is just not accurate enough for Kubiak's offense. Harrell looks like he has a weak arm and bad mechanics. The kid from Central Arkansas was in over his head.
At running back the best to me was Rashad Jennings for Liberty. He would make for a nice complement to Slaton. Andre Brown looks like a nice prospect but when he was dancing in hole. I had flashbacks of Jonathan Wells. The best DT last night was Mitch King from Iowa, though Jerry had a couple of good plays. Mayock was high on Raji and seems to think he won't get past us at 15. The South interior linemen did a nice job against him and the rest of the North tackles. In the secondary, Eugene Chung looked like the best safety. Moore from Mizzou did not look good. I want to think his senior season was an anomaly and he can be the player he was as a junior. Maybe he can and some team will get a steal, but that remains to be seen. I had Dunta flashbacks with the smaller safety from Western Michigan. Maualuga and Cushing at times looked like beasts at linebacker. The defensive end from Tennessee and Larry English looked like the best pass rushers. Anyway, that's one man's opinion. |
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Jeria Perry got good penetration and pressured the QB several times. He also batted a ball down. I'm wondering if he'd be an upgrade over TJ if Raji is off the board and if the Texans are through with TJs attitude. Moore left the game with an ankle injury. I'm not a Dr. but this kid has played hurt his entire Senior year. If he goes to Indy and the Dr's go through his medical history, I wonder how far he will drop. Can he come back and play like his Junior year, or is he just going to be on IR during his pro career? |
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There were several plays during the game that I watched closely to see. For example, when JP Wilson scored his TD on a draw play, the Middle LB (McKillop or Follett) got blocked after Raji and King parted ways leaving the middle open. I saw some hestitation in Marcus Freeman, Brian Cushing, Tyrone McKenzie, and others that I did not like along with some poor tackling. Clint Sintim really dissapointed me for somebody who is consistently ranked as a 1st round prospect. The three guys who impressed me the most were Peria Jerry, Robert Ayers, and Cody Brown. If they were our 1st 3 picks of the draft, that would suit me just fine. The best tackler I saw this week was Scott McKillop in terms of wrapping up and taking on backs head on. Patrick Chung and Alphonso Smith moved up in terms of Secondary prospects. |
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On another note, apart from that fumble, I was really impressed with Peerman, and am interested in him as a complement to Slaton. |
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