NFL Combine

[painekiller]

Add any notes on the combine you want to the thread.

If the NFLnetwork talks about Tebow one more time I am going to scream. There coverage is horrible. Guys are running the drills and they do not tell you who the guy is. They are to busy talking about what coach xyz had for breakfast.

Surprises, Petrus lifting 45 times.

Mike Johnson looked solid in his face up drill, but his forty was a little slow IMO.

What have you guys noticed?

[bono]

weren't the 40 times a little slow last year too?

[Roy P]

Trent Williams moved ahead of Bulaga on my draft board. The kid from Maryland should go ahead and buy his Raiders jersey.

[kRocket]

Trent Williams moved ahead of Bulaga on my draft board. The kid from Maryland should go ahead and buy his Raiders jersey.Charles Davis said yesterday that Bruce Campbell would be the next workout wonder, but 'caveat emptor'.

If you look at Bulaga he just looks like an OL. The bottom or his neck where it meets his shoulders was 2 inches wider than his head. Made a triangle, LOL.

[nunusguy]

It's amazing how fit so many of these OLineman are. I mean they are 300+ and gutless as compared to their rotund counterparts back in the
day who had flabby rolls hanging over their waistbands.

[NBT]

How about that guy Cameron, I think it was. A former TE, he ran a 4.76 forty at 300 + lbs! WOW!!

[Roy P]

Still awaiting the "Official" numbers. Before DraftScout was bought by CBS, they would post all of the numbers. This is what I'm looking for from OL...

OG---------------------------------------------OT
6’4”--------------------------------------------6’5”
310lbs----------------------------------------315lbs
5.10 – Forty--------------------------------5.18 – Forty
1.77 – 10 yd-------------------------------1.79 – 10 yd
4.65 – Shuttle-----------------------------4.68 – Shuttle
7.55 – Cone Drill--------------------------7.60 – Cone Drill
27” – Vertical------------------------------25” – Vertical
9’0” – Long Jump--------------------------8’10” – Long Jump
25 – Bench Press--------------------------24 – Bench Press
2.90 - Twenty-----------------------------2.93 - Twenty


Rodger Saffold may be a 2nd round pick by the time the draft rolls around.

[painekiller]

Rodger Saffold may be a 2nd round pick by the time the draft rolls around.

Yep, have to agree on that one.

[painekiller]

The kid from Fordham, Skelton impressed today. He has a rocket arm, he needs work but would be worth a project pick. If the Texans take a project type QB, then I hope they take a guy with a true NFL arm, not some weak arm hack like Alex Brink.

Toby Gerhart showed he has the speed to be a tailback in the NFL. Blount ran slower then I had expected.

The forty times this year appear to all be better than last years group.

Ryan Mathews is looking more and more like the guy we target. Montario Hardesty also had a huge day, and Tate is still a solid fall back.

The Texans are going to have to go RB before the 2nd pick if they want one of the top 5 guys.

[NBT]

Toby Gerhart is still my man.

[nunusguy]

Ryan Matthews was impressive in Indy, but is he really that much different than what we already have in Arian Foster ?
If we go with one of the name backs Gerhardt would also be my choice. He's big and runs heavy so he's the inside guy we don't have but his 40 time today
wasn't bad at all - he's not a tortoise. The 4.5s aren't bad at all.

[Roy P]

The forty times this year appear to all be better than last years group.

Ryan Mathews is looking more and more like the guy we target. Montario Hardesty also had a huge day, and Tate is still a solid fall back.

The Texans are going to have to go RB before the 2nd pick if they want one of the top 5 guys.

Who are the top 5 guys?

Spiller, Dwyer, Best, Matthews, and Gerhart?

That leaves, Dixon, Hardesty, and Tate (all 3 from the SEC). :eek:

[painekiller]

Who are the top 5 guys?

Spiller, Dwyer, Best, Matthews, and Gerhart?

That leaves, Dixon, Hardesty, and Tate (all 3 from the SEC). :eek:

Spiller, Matthews, Best, Gerhart, Tate/ Hardesty would be my top 5.

Not a Dwyer fan.

I have an incomplete on Dixon.

After today Gerhart, Tate and Hardesty have made a case for being 2nd rounders, they all have solid tape and today they showed better speed than expected.

Not sure Best is not to much a dancer for Kubiak.

Matthews seems to be the most likely to be a Texan. CJ Spiller would make the offense super scary, he can be a factor in the pass game and not many safeties could cover him one on one.

[Roy P]

I thought I'd make a list of guys that the Texans will probably draft who aren't on my board....

FS Taylor Mays - USC
RB Jonathan Dwyer - Ga Tech
OL Bruce Campbell - Maryland
CB Dominique Franks - Oklahoma
CB Kareem Jackson - Alabama
FS Nate Allen - USF
CB Perrish Cox - Ok State
OL Jared Veldheer - Hillside
RB Joe McKnight - USC
CB Jerome Murphy - USF
OG Mitch Petrus - Arkansas
FS Kam Chancellor - Va Tech
OL Shelley Smith - Colorado State
OL Selvish Capers - WVa
SS T.J. Ward - Oregon
OL Zane Beadles - Utah
OL Shaun Lauvao - Az State
RB Andre Anderson - Tulane

Since they generally don't draft off of my board, I thought this might be a useful exercise. :)

[nunusguy]

Mayoc says he thinks this is the strongest Draft he's seen in 8 to 10 years with talent across the Board with the exception of QB, happily not an area of need for us.

[Roy P]

Mayoc says he thinks this is the strongest Draft he's seen in 8 to 10 years with talent across the Board with the exception of QB, happily not an area of need for us.

I wonder about this assessment every year. If we can't grade a draft until 3 or 4 years down the road, then how can we say that a draft class is the "strongest" we've seen in 8 years? Just sayin' that every year, we look at these kids and think we are looking at the next class of Pro Bowlers.

[Blitzwood]

Mayoc says he thinks this is the strongest Draft he's seen in 8 to 10 years with talent across the Board with the exception of QB, happily not an area of need for us.

Hate to say it, but I think he's right. It's pretty deep in all but a few positions.

[Roy P]

Spiller, Matthews, Best, Gerhart, Tate/ Hardesty would be my top 5.

After today Gerhart, Tate and Hardesty have made a case for being 2nd rounders, they all have solid tape and today they showed better speed than expected.

Matthews seems to be the most likely to be a Texan. CJ Spiller would make the offense super scary, he can be a factor in the pass game and not many safeties could cover him one on one.

Ok, Spiller just may be the "next Chris Johnson" and everyone is looking for that guy. I'm not completely certain that Ryan Matthews is the next Thomas Jones or Steven Jackson, which is what I'm looking for.

I'm a big fan of Ben Tate and Montario Hardesty, and now I am thinking that the 'fantasy land' that we've been living in that these guys are 4th round picks has been brought to reality. So, I'll be interested in seeing if the 'consensus' boards change drastically after the Combine. Will Tate and Hardesty be 2nd round picks now? The Bench, vertical, jump, and shuttle times should exhibit that they have explosion and agility.

[nunusguy]

I'm a big fan of Ben Tate and Montario Hardesty, and now I am thinking that the 'fantasy land' that we've been living in that these guys are 4th round picks has been brought to reality.
That 4.3 that Tate nailed while packing 220 lbs definitely takes him off the Board in the third round at the latest.
And somebody maybe you RP said wait 'till the midrounds to grab a NT in the person of Cam Thomas - well that's another fantasy we can forget about.
Mayoc said this guy had not so good tape during the regular season but he went lights out at Senior Bowl week which puts him in the second round,
especially with so many 3-4 teams looking for nose-guys.

[Roy P]

That Cam Thomas - well that's another fantasy we can forget about.
Mayoc said this guy had not so good tape during the regular season but he went lights out at Senior Bowl week which puts him in the second round,
especially with so many 3-4 teams looking for nose-guys.

I'm going to put my hopes in East Carolina. Joseph Linval, Jay Ross, or Wilson could get drafted late and help our DL. Linval had an impressive showing on the Bench with very long arms. I'm going to come up with a Formula that ranks Benching.....

[nunusguy]

Top rated corner in this Draft and a consensus top 10 guy just ran a clunker - 4.57 ! That's unofficial and ususally the official time is slower. Ouch !
He'll get another 40 to improve on that very disappointing time, but if this holds we will see if he remains the top CB ? Might be a real barometer about
how important 40 times are ?

[painekiller]

Top rated corner in this Draft and a consensus top 10 guy just ran a clunker - 4.57 ! That's unofficial and usually the official time is slower. Ouch !
He'll get another 40 to improve on that very disappointing time, but if this holds we will see if he remains the top CB ? Might be a real barometer about
how important 40 times are ?

Hadden then went to the hip flip drill and flopped. He was all over the place on his flip. He just cost himself a lot of money, IMO.

As for all the guys now getting 2nd round grades, if you do the math there is more than 32 guys with 2nd round grades, guys will be available in the the 3rd that are rated by Mayock as 2nd rounders.

As for sleepers, guys like Cam Thomas, Rodger Saffold are known by scouts and graded much better than can do.

BTW Thomas is a huge question mark is what Mayock said due to not being there on tape, then exploding at the Senior Bowl, he looks like a guy who turns it on when the money is on the line only.

A guy who raised his standing is Brandon Ghee. Another guy I liked here is Larry Asante, and I saw somewhere the Texans where interested in him.

A guy I have dropped due to an interview I heard from him is Perrish Cox, he had to much attitude about his suspensions. He said he was hanging with his boys one time and the other time he was partying with a girl, you should understand that? Yep I understand you are being taken off my list.

[painekiller]

Taylor Mays has put himself back on my list at 20. I am going with his interview in Mobile where he said he was not coached to go for the ball they wanted him laying the big hit. 232 running 4.4. I think we can use that to our advantage. Put him back with Cushing his old roommate. Heck IMO he would make one hell of a WILL.

[nunusguy]

Top 10 official 40-yard dash times at this year’s combine:

4.28: Jacoby Ford, WR, Clemson
4.34: Trindon Holliday, return specialist, Louisiana State
4.35: Jahvid Best, RB, California
4.37: C.J. Spiller, RB, Clemson
4.40: Dorin Dickerson, TE, Pittsburgh
4.41: Taylor Price, WR, Ohio
4:41: Emmanuel Sanders, WR, Southern Methodist
4.42: Golden Tate, WR, Notre Dame
4.43: Brandon Banks, WR, Kansas State
4.43: Taylor Mays, S, Southern California
4.43: Ben Tate, RB, Auburn
4.43: Kyle Williams, WR, Arizona State
http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/03/02/not-record-setting-but-mays-still-sets-db-pace/
*********************************
Here's the official 40 times for this years Indy Combine. "Official" is the operative term here because the NFL.Network had everybody excited when
they had Mays unofficially running a 4.24, but apparently their guy with the stop-watch didn't click the button until Mays was a few yards down the line.
So anyway these times count. Now don't be surprised if somebody like Mays runs a sub 4.3 at his PRO-Day - just don't believe it.
FWIW, not a single corner ran under 4.4 and the 5th fastest time was by some TE from Pitt by the name of Dorin Dickerson.

[Roy P]

Hadden then went to the hip flip drill and flopped. He was all over the place on his flip. He just cost himself a lot of money, IMO.

A guy who raised his standing is Brandon Ghee. Another guy I liked here is Larry Asante, and I saw somewhere the Texans where interested in him.


Yeah, after seeing Haden run a 4.6, I'm wondering if he's available at #20. Then I wonder if we should take him if he's available.

Taylor Mays should be off the board when we pick, but Earl Thomas may slide as the 3rd best FS. Is a CB more important than FS?

Devin McCourty looked like a legit 1st round pick and a great bargain in the 2nd round. Brandon Ghee is a 2nd round pick after today. Taylor Mays shouldn't be available when we draft. Myron Lewis may still be a bargain on day 3.

Did anybody see A.J. Jefferson from Fresno State? Mayock should get some kickback from his agent.

[nunusguy]

Yeah, after seeing Haden run a 4.6, I'm wondering if he's available at #20. Then I wonder if we should take him if he's available.

Taylor Mays should be off the board when we pick, but Earl Thomas may slide as the 3rd best FS. Is a CB more important than FS?

Devin McCourty looked like a legit 1st round pick and a great bargain in the 2nd round. Brandon Ghee is a 2nd round pick after today. Taylor Mays shouldn't be available when we draft. Myron Lewis may still be a bargain on day 3.

Did anybody see A.J. Jefferson from Fresno State? Mayock should get some kickback from his agent.
"Is a CB more important than FS?" - that's not a serious question is it ?
Re Mays, he runs a 4.43 and you're excited ? Really ? Did you see him run his position drills, if so you know he was utterly spastic.
McCourty was impressive.
But disappointed the BSU CB couldn't run today.

[kRocket]

The loud 'THUMP' you heard was Joe Haden falling out of the top ten and maybe out of the first round. I don't know what happened to his speed that was proclaimed prior to the Combine but it wasn't there today.

[Roy P]

"Is a CB more important than FS?" - that's not a serious question is it ?
Re Mays, he runs a 4.43 and you're excited ? Really ? Did you see him run his position drills, if so you know he was utterly spastic.
McCourty was impressive.
But disappointed the BSU CB couldn't run today.

Yes, it was a serious question. Earl Thomas could play all over the field, while Devin McCourty could possibly cover a #1 WR.

I saw Mays run the fastest time out of ANY DB at the Combine, so yes that's a bit exciting. Does he need work to become as good as LaRon Landry? Yeah, probably so. Would he make OUR defense better? That's the important question. Will coaching make Mays a better NFL player than he was in college? Could he be a better LB than Thomas Davis and be a hybrid SS/WILL? These are questions that make me put him on my draft board. Am I moving him to the top of the list? Nope.

I hadn't considered McCourty as a First round pick, but I'm getting my head wrapped around it. Similarly to when I thought Duane Brown was a third round pick until we selected him in the 1st. I'd feel better if I knew McCourty had a 36" Vertical.

[nunusguy]

Yes, it was a serious question. Earl Thomas could play all over the field, while Devin McCourty could possibly cover a #1 WR.


I'm with Deion Sanders on the question of filling safety positons - just move a slow corner over there.

[barrett]

"Is a CB more important than FS?" - that's not a serious question is it ?
Re Mays, he runs a 4.43 and you're excited ? Really ? Did you see him run his position drills, if so you know he was utterly spastic.
McCourty was impressive.
But disappointed the BSU CB couldn't run today.

A very serious question.

Jets, Cowboys, Ravens, 49ers, Patriots.

Those are the top 5 NFL defenses by points allowed.

The Jets have a stud CB in Revis.

The Cowboys have two above average CBs in Jenkins and Newman, but their defense is all about pass rush.

The Ravens do it with Ed Reed playing 20 yards deep and range that makes any deep ball look like a punt he should be fair catching. Then they swarm underneath knowing he is behind them.

The 49ers are not particularly strong in the secondary, but are solid in the middle with pro bowlers at DT and MLB that effectively shut down the running game.

The Patriots are likewise strong on the 3-4 DL, but also have a pro bowler at FS.



Looking at all this I don't think you can definitively say that either FS or CB are more important to a team. I think it depends largely on the scheme you run. And sometimes the scheme depends on the talent (like adjustments Rex Ryan made between Baltimore and NY to take advantage of guys like Reed and Revis).

So the questions are "what's more important to the Texans defense?", and then the next question is "With that in mind, what does the talent available dictate?"

[nunusguy]

Looking at all this I don't think you can definitively say that either FS or CB are more important to a team. I think it depends largely on the scheme you run. And sometimes the scheme depends on the talent (like adjustments Rex Ryan made between Baltimore and NY to take advantage of guys like Reed and Revis).


If your saying the "CB vs Safety" issue and the relative importance of the two positions on a team is a function of the system/schemes the team runs, that definitely makes sense to me and therefor I agree.
For example a team like ours which up to now has operated its DBackfield out of scheme(s) that places relatively high emphasis on "man" coverge obviously places a higher value on corners as compared to teams that use less "man".

[NBT]

Hey fellows, let's remember that there was talk that Revis wasn't all that fast coming into the draft, so who knows?

[barrett]

I didn't watch enough Florida games to say either way, but if Haden didn't look slow on film in the SEC, then I am not overly concerned about his 40 time.

[TexanJedi]

I didn't watch enough Florida games to say either way, but if Haden didn't look slow on film in the SEC, then I am not overly concerned about his 40 time.

Me either. He will run on a favorable track during his Pro Day, time faster and suddenly be en vogue again. If this guy is there at 20, unless they rate Kyle Wilson as a better system fit, then it seems a no brainer to me. He clearly was affected by that slow forty time and struggled in his drills afterward as well. And there is the whole matter of how accurate the combine forty times are in general, but a 4.6 is slow for a corner. Now is he a Champ Bailey, Revis type? I don't know, but he should be a good CB and has good instincts for the position. Revis reportedly ran a 4.39 forty at this Pro Day (did not run in Indy), but again those results could have to do with a favorable environment. It will be interesting to see how Haden compares.

[barrett]

Me either. He will run on a favorable track during his Pro Day, time faster and suddenly be en vogue again. If this guy is there at 20, unless they rate Kyle Wilson as a better system fit, then it seems a no brainer to me. He clearly was affected by that slow forty time and struggled in his drills afterward as well. And there is the whole matter of how accurate the combine forty times are in general, but a 4.6 is slow for a corner. Now is he a Champ Bailey, Revis type? I don't know, but he should be a good CB and has good instincts for the position. Revis reportedly ran a 4.39 forty at this Pro Day (did not run in Indy), but again those results could have to do with a favorable environment. It will be interesting to see how Haden compares.

If they timed in Pads and he was slower then everyone else it would concern me more. At this point, I would be totally unconcerned about his speed, and very concerned about his work ethic and preparation. That is one thing the combine says loud and clear. It puts all these guys in an equal evaluation and shows teams how serious they are about being pro football players by showing how prepared they are for the various tests and drills.

[gunn]

Hey fellows, let's remember that there was talk that Revis wasn't all that fast coming into the draft, so who knows?

There was talk of that but he dispelled that by running a 4.39 and a 4.40 at his pro day.

[Roy P]

I'm with Deion Sanders on the question of filling safety positons - just move a slow corner over there.

Joe Haden may be the next FS. :)

[NBT]

There was talk of that but he dispelled that by running a 4.39 and a 4.40 at his pro day.

My point exaclty. Maybe Haden will run a sub 4.5 at his pro day like Revis did. I would still pick him if he falls to #20.

[Bigtinylittle]

I'm with Deion Sanders on the question of filling safety positons - just move a slow corner over there.

I'm with Deon on this too. Safety is the most overrated position in Pro Football. Overrated by fans, that is. Not by GM's. Go look at the last 5 to ten years of the draft and see how many CB's were drafted in round one compared to safeties.

[gunn]

Go look at the last 5 to ten years of the draft and see how many CB's were drafted in round one compared to safeties.

17 to 8 over the last 5 years
19 to 7 in the 5 years prior to that
Combined 36 to 15 over the past 10 years

[Roy P]

17 to 8 over the last 5 years
19 to 7 in the 5 years prior to that
Combined 36 to 15 over the past 10 years

I can interpret that to mean that there haven't been very many 1st round talented Safety prospects to choose from. So, that would make them a rare find and highly valuable. The 8 that were chosen over the last 5 years have been pretty good. Perhaps we should take a look at how many Pro-Bowls those 8 have gone to compared to the 17 CBs. Just a thought.

[Bigtinylittle]

I can interpret that to mean that there haven't been very many 1st round talented Safety prospects to choose from. So, that would make them a rare find and highly valuable. The 8 that were chosen over the last 5 years have been pretty good. Perhaps we should take a look at how many Pro-Bowls those 8 have gone to compared to the 17 CBs. Just a thought.

I would never say a team shouldn't draft a safety in the first round. My point was that many fans overvalue the safety position, especially FS, compared to how GM's value the position. and that I think the GM's are right.

Another interesting thing to look at in the last ten drafts is how many times a safety was drafted before any cornerbacks were off the board. I think you will find that in most years a CB is the first to go. Another thing to look at is the average salary of the top 5 safeties in the league compared to the top five CB's.

I'm a big advocate of drafting for need in the first round. If I were a GM and my team was in good shape at DE,QB,CB,LT, and WR, then I might start looking at a safety if I needed one.

[Roy P]

I'm a big advocate of drafting for need in the first round.

Hmm, we no longer have anything to discuss. There is too much money involved in a first round pick to miss the mark by reaching for a player to fill a need. I understand wanting the 1st round rookie to come in and start and the easiest way for that to happen is by drafting a position of need. However, if the player is talented enough, you may find it hard to keep him on the bench. We will just have to agree to disagree.

[Blitzwood]

There is too much money involved in a first round pick to miss the mark by reaching for a player to fill a need.

see Duane Brown

[Bigtinylittle]

From what I understand, the Texans are happy with that pick. They had a desperate need and filled it the best they could.

[Roy P]

see Duane Brown

The team may be happy with Duane Brown, but while they filled a need, they could have drafted DeSean Jackson or Ray Rice. I'm not saying the Jeremy Zuttah would have been a better LT, but I'd have felt fine moving Pitts back to LT if I had Ray Rice running behind him. However, we have a "need" filled. What is ironic is, we were able to pass on Michael Oher to draft Brian Cushing the next draft. If Cushing and Oher had both left school early and had been in the previous draft, I'd be willing to wager that Oher would have been the Texan.

[Blitzwood]

For the record, I thought it was a huge reach to take him in the first round. But I believe it was Gibbs who really wanted him so who am I to argue. Also, I believe we didn't have another pick until the 3rd round.

It was definitely to fill a need versus BPA.

BTW, Matt Forte would have looked good in Battle Red on Sundays.

[painekiller]

From what I understand, the Texans are happy with that pick. They had a desperate need and filled it the best they could.

And they are publicly going to go say Duane is a reach? Not going to happen.

[Nconroe]

Duane was what, the eighth OT drafted in 2008. For sure a pick of need at the time. Seems to be working out ok since Texans had no. 1 ranked passing offense in 2009, perhaps after two years looks like not a reach. in 2008 had no 13 rushing offense. Duane Brown was faster in 40 and slightly heavier than all guys taken above him I think.

Pick # NFL Team Player Position College
1 Miami Dolphins Jake Long Offensive tackle Michigan
Miam no 20 passing offense, 15 TD, 34 sacks, 198 yds/gm, no 4 rush
12 Denver Broncos Ryan Clady Offensive tackle Boise State
Denver no 13 passing offense, 21 TD, 34 sacks, 223 yds/gm, no 18 rush
14 Chicago Bears Chris Williams Offensive tackle Vanderbilt
Chicago no 17 passing offense, 27 TD, 35 sacks, 217 yds/gm, no 29 rush
15 Kansas City Chiefs Branden Albert Offensive tackle Virginia
Kansad City no 25 passing offense 18 TD, 45 sacks, 183 yds/gm, no 11 rush
17 Detroit Lions Gosder Cherilus Offensive tackle Boston College
Detroit no 21 passing offense 16 TD , 43 sacks, 198 yds/gm, no 24 rush
19 Carolina Panthers Jeff Otah Offensive tackle Pittsburgh
Carolina no 27 passing offense 16 TD, 33 sacks, 175 yds/gm, no 3 rush
21 Atlanta Falcons Sam Baker Offensive tackle USC
Atlanta no 14 passing offense, 27 TD, 27 sacks, 223 yds/gm, no 15 rush
26 Houston Texans Duane Brown Offensive tackle Virginia Tech
Houston no. 1 passing offense 29 TD, 25 sack, 291 yds/gm, no 30 rush

[Bigtinylittle]

I might feel more out on a limb about advocating drafting for need in the first round if weren't for the fact that almost all teams do it. About this time of year they all come out and say they are going to take the BPA, and then they go out and draft for need. They asolutely hate to reach, though. So they all sit in their war rooms and hope that when their time to draft comes the BPA turns out to be at one of their positions of greatest need. When that doesn't happen, they swallow hard and reach a bit.

I do agree that Duane Brown was a reach at the time, and probably a greater reach than we will ever see Smithiak make again. They were in a position where they had no LT to protect their franchise QB, a guy who is known for his lack of mobility. They were in a bind. When their turn came, I think they were surprised that so many LTs were already gone off the board. But they needed a LT badly so they bit the bullet and took Brown.

They never have publicly admitted they reached. I wouldn't either if I were them. For one thing, it is a knock on Brown if they do, and they never publicly knock their players.

[Roy P]

I might feel more out on a limb about advocating drafting for need in the first round if weren't for the fact that almost all teams do it. About this time of year they all come out and say they are going to take the BPA, and then they go out and draft for need.

I agree that they do it. I'm just saying that putting those blinders on where you only see players who fill needs, can hurt an organization.

KC was trying hard to find the next Richard Seymour for their defense and drafted Tyson Jackson with the 3rd overall pick last year. I kept wondering why in the world they wouldn't take Brian Orakpo since he would fit into their 3-4 concept. However, they already had Mike Vrabel so there wasn't a "need" on the roster. They were able to get Pierre Walters late in the draft to groom.

The Raiders selected Darius Heyward-Bey because JaMarcus Russell sucks. So, they figured that he needed a WR to make him look good. A fast guy so he could throw the ball 50 yards down the field. Al Davis didn't realize he could draft Mike Williams in the 3rd round and get a better WR, and he could have drafted Brian Cushing instead with his 1st pick. Then again, Linebackers just arent' drafted that high. At least, that's the consensus opinion.

There are other examples every year where teams just ignore the overwhelming evidence that player 'A' has the more talent than player 'B' but choose 'B' because he fills a need. Then, when 'A' outperforms the bust that they chose, they simply use the excuse that 'A' didn't fit their scheme or system. They forget to admit that 'B' obviously didn't fit either or he'd been able to produce.

[Roy P]

Duane was what, the eighth OT drafted in 2008.
Duane Brown was faster in 40 and slightly heavier than all guys taken above him I think.

Pick # NFL Team Player Position College
1 Miami Dolphins Jake Long Offensive tackle Michigan
Miam no 20 passing offense, 15 TD, 34 sacks, 198 yds/gm, no 4 rush
12 Denver Broncos Ryan Clady Offensive tackle Boise State
Denver no 13 passing offense, 21 TD, 34 sacks, 223 yds/gm, no 18 rush

26 Houston Texans Duane Brown Offensive tackle Virginia Tech
Houston no. 1 passing offense 29 TD, 25 sack, 291 yds/gm, no 30 rush

So, this shows that Duane Brown is a better Left Tackle than either Jake Long or Ryan Clady? Man, we were so lucky to get him at #26. :rolleyes:

[Nconroe]

nope, doesn't show yet who is best LT, maybe in a couple more years we'll know that. Just shows the Texans likely did pretty good and after two years, if it was a reach, it is working out fairly well. that is all. sometimes reaches work out. Someone was saying 50% of picks work out as expected. maybe we were lucky, maybe we did proper analysis, I said it was for need, not BPA at the position we drafted in. And it was a tradedown with another pick as well.

[NBT]

So what about moving Brown inside to LG and drafting a LT?

[Roy P]

So what about moving Brown inside to LG and drafting a LT?

If Trent Williams is available when we pick at #20, that's exactly what I would do. Hopefully, Duane Brown isn't too much of a liability in the run game though as a LG. However, I imagine the top LT's will be gone at #20 anyway.

[gunn]

If Trent Williams is available when we pick at #20, that's exactly what I would do. Hopefully, Duane Brown isn't too much of a liability in the run game though as a LG. However, I imagine the top LT's will be gone at #20 anyway.


I'm not sold on Trent Williams as a LT. He looks more like a right tackle who can spot a team on the left side to me. I would move him inside to guard personally

[painekiller]

I'm not sold on Trent Williams as a LT. He looks more like a right tackle who can spot a team on the left side to me. I would move him inside to guard personally

I agree.

I would make Brown a RG before I made him a LG, or I would move Winston to OG and try Brown at RT. I already can hear the guys yelling you do not move a top 5 RT to OG for an unproven player.

As for Williams, he looks like a RT to me also.

[Roy P]

I agree.

I would make Brown a RG before I made him a LG, or I would move Winston to OG and try Brown at RT. I already can hear the guys yelling you do not move a top 5 RT to OG for an unproven player.

As for Williams, he looks like a RT to me also.

It might just be easiest to put Williams at LG and leave everyone in place. That's just me though. I know that he would upgrade the talent level of the entire group, so let the coaches figure out where to put him. As long as we have to the top 5 OL on the field, I don't care where they line up.

I've heard this opinion that Trent is a RT at the next level, but I haven't seen the evidence. He did well against Orakpo and Kindle and they are first round pass rushers.

[nunusguy]

I would make Brown a RG before I made him a LG
The differences betwen playing LT & RT are distinct, significant, & well known, but what about the differences between the 2 guard positions ?

[painekiller]

The differences betwen playing LT & RT are distinct, significant, & well known, but what about the differences between the 2 guard positions ?

Simular to the tackles, the LG is usually consider the more mobile guy, the RG is considered more the road grader.

That is why Studdard is a LG only, because he not a road grader.

In the up coming draft, Mike Johnson and Mike Iupati are LG types, yes Iupati has excellent feet, bad techneque, but excellent feet. BTW this is not about forty times.

[Roy P]

BTW this is not about forty times.

Looking at "mobile" players and those who are on my draft board....

3-Cone Drill
Newhouse, Marshall 7.40
Veldheer, Jared 7.40
Saffold, Rodger 7.42
Hawley, Joe 7.50
Olsen, Eric 7.50
Washington, Tony 7.52
Lauvao, Shawn 7.56
Campbell, Bruce 7.58
Tennant, Matt 7.60
Walton, J.D. 7.60

Short Shuttle
Lauvao, Shawn 4.51
Veldheer, Jared 4.51
Newhouse, Marshall 4.60
Tennant, Matt 4.62
Williams, Trent 4.63
Brooks, Dorian 4.66
Larsen, Ted 4.66
Saffold, Rodger 4.67
Capers, Selvish 4.68
Campbell, Bruce 4.69
Walton, J.D. 4.69
Jerry, John 4.69

[Roy P]

I also have my "prototypes" for the OL just for comparisons.....

OG
6’4”
310lbs
5.10 – 40 yd
1.77 – 10 yd
2.90 - 20 yd
4.65 – Shuttle
7.55 – Cone Drill
27” – Vertical
9’0” – Long Jump
25 – Bench Press

OT
6’5”
315lbs
5.18 – 40 yd
1.79 – 10 yd
2.93 - 20 yd
4.68 – Shuttle
7.60 – Cone Drill
25” – Vertical
8’10” – Long Jump
24 – Bench Press