Risers & Fallers

[Roy P]

Okay, the Football games are over and now players are rising and falling from previous "rankings" - so, I thought I'd start a thread to keep track. I am sure that there will be plenty of movement at the Combine and Pro-Days. However, these are the players that have jumped out at me.

Risers
OT Bryan Bulaga - Underclassmen often are lowballed early and then rise.
FS Earl Thomas
OG Mike Iupati - I have actually gone the other way on this guy.
NT Dan Williams - The Vince Wilfork comparisons are coming as Mt. Cody starts losing fans.
CB Devin McCourty - This guy could be the Texans' pick and I'm really surprised. I think he's a late 2nd maybe 3rd round CB, but he's getting momentum.
LB Sean Weatherspoon - He started off as a 2nd round pick, but I think after he runs a 4.56 at 245lbs, he'll continue to climb up the 1st round.
CB Kyle Williams - This year's "Antonio Cromatrie" enjoying the Sr. Bowl bounce.
RB/WR Dexter McCluster - Mike Mayock could be his agent. He may be another Devin Hester, not Darren Sproles. Possibly Garrett Wolfe instead of Chris Johnson.
LB Darryl Washington - Good production in college.
DL Tyson Alualu - I'm jumping on his bandwagon too.
LB Koa Misi - Another All-Star game star.
QB Jarret Brown - Remember Tavaris Jackson getting drafted very high?
NT Cam Thomas - I love this guy and he came out of NOWHERE!
SS Larry Asante - Reminds me of Pollard.
FS/CB Chris Cook - I liked the idea of stealing him late, now everyone else is bidding him up.

Fallers
CB Patrick Robinson - As McCourty has gone up, this guy has gone the other way.
CB Syd'Quan Thompson - His 40-time is going to be VERY important for him.
CB Donovan Warren - He may regret coming out early and has done the opposite of Earl Thomas. Started high and free-falling.
OT Kyle Calloway - I like this trend, possible bargain on day 3 :)
CB Trevard Lindley - Anybody else noticing that many CB's are dropping?
LB Roddrick Muckleroy - This is an interesting development.

[TexanJedi]

Tyson Alualu is one of my favorite prospects. I would love for the Texans to grab him in the 3rd round or so. He could also light a fire under Amobi hopefully and provide much needed depth.

[cland]

I have to say that the Senior Bowl pushed me off the Mike Iupati train. He held like crazy, and definitely looked slow footed. While he wouldn't get steam rolled like Chris Myers, the quick NFL DLmen would go right around him, or get him flagged for 10 yards. He might fit in a power scheme like Pitts or Dallas, but I didn't see anything that matches a zone blocking scheme.

I could be convinced that the coaching he received at Idaho hurt him, but I'm not looking for a project OLmen in the 1st round of the draft, where most say he's expected to be taken.

Now I didn't focus on him quite as much, and I read some bad press, but I thought Mike Johnson looked a lot more like the type of athlete we need. He needs to beef up, but he could be a nice 3rd round pick.

Has anyone watched Maurkice Pouncey or JD Walton playing center? I really think a more physical center is a big team need.

[Roy P]

I have to say that the Senior Bowl pushed me off the Mike Iupati train.

Now I didn't focus on him quite as much, and I read some bad press, but I thought Mike Johnson looked a lot more like the type of athlete we need.

Has anyone watched Maurkice Pouncey or JD Walton playing center? I really think a more physical center is a big team need.

Iupati is off my board.

What "bad press" did you read about Mike Johnson? I'm wanting to see what his Combine looks like, but his on the field blocking looks pretty good.

I am no fan of Pouncey. Walton is just another name that I need to take a closer look at. He is on the radar, just I haven't zeroed in on him, yet. Maybe Caldwell is the more physical center you are thinking about.

[Roy P]

Risers
TE Jimmy Graham
WR Taylor Price -
OT Jared Veldheer - Athletic like Joe Staley
OT Rodger Saffold - Decent feet
DT Torrell Troupe - Big NT
DE Alex Carrington - Think Chris Canty
FS/CB Chris Cook - Are you kidding me? He's now a 2nd round pick ahead of DB Perrish Cox and Morgan Burnett!

Fallers
CB Brandon Ghee - I will take this guy over Cook to play FS and feel like I stole something.
DE Greg Hardy - I just assume he has a criminal record or something.

[Roy P]

Risers
RB Pat Paschal
OG Marshall Newhouse
LB Donald Butler
S Myron Rolle - I wouldn't be too upset about drafting a Rhode's scholar.
LB Pat Angerer - Could we draft 3 hawkeyes and make me happy?

[NBT]

Well, in a few more days the NFL's version of a beauty pageant will begin at this years Combine. :p

[painekiller]

Iupati is off my board.


I will not go so far as he is off my board, but i do not touch him in the 1st after his senior bowl play. In the 2nd round.....now I have to start thinking. He has raw raw raw skills, and coaching should help him. But he is going to need some hand to hand combat training and fast to get into the pit of the NFL.

[Roy P]

I will not go so far as he is off my board, but i do not touch him in the 1st after his senior bowl play. In the 2nd round.....now I have to start thinking. He has raw raw raw skills, and coaching should help him. But he is going to need some hand to hand combat training and fast to get into the pit of the NFL.

I'm pretty sure Iupati is drafted before our 2nd round draft pick comes up, so that's why he's off my board. I'd draft him AFTER Asamoah and Mike Johnson, not before.

[kRocket]

Risers
...
S Myron Rolle - I wouldn't be too upset about drafting a Rhode's scholar.
...
I am really interested in this guy. As you said a Rhodes Scholar probably has an edge over most folks in the smarts department. He kept himself in pretty good shape during his year off. He was able to step right into the Senior Bowl. I will be very interested to see him perform at the combine.

[painekiller]

CB Amari Spievey is moving up my list of CBs

Warren and Wilson are my top guys, for were we pick.
Spievey is moving up.

[nunusguy]

Defensive tackle Terrence Cody weighed 349 pounds, ran 5.64 and 5.62 in the 40, 22-inch vertical leap, 7-9 broad jump, kept short shuttle and three-cone drill times from the combine and had 22 bench press reps.

http://blogs.nfl.com/category/pro-days/
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Big Terrence is gonna be skinny as a rail if he dosen't keep shedding the lbs.
But he's down from his combine weight, which was down from his SB weight.
Can't hurt his case.

[HPF Bob]

Rob Rang, in his latest mock, has us taking Joe Haden, CB, Florida with the 20th pick saying his combine dropped his stock a bit.

Haden was picked just ahead of:
Taylor Mays
Sergio Kindle
Mike Iupati
Carlos Dunlap
Jared Odrick

Chad Reuter has us taking Earl Thomas, S-CB, Texas with the 20th pick ahead of the following:
Golden Tate
Sergio Kindle
Mike Iupati
Carlos Dunlap
Kyle Wilson
Sean Witherspoon

Other than Tate, I find any of the other six acceptable and would be entertaining trade down offers.

[Roy P]

Rising
1st Rounders
DE Everson Griffen
RB Ryan Mathews
LB Sean Weatherspoon
CB Kyle Wilson
DE Jerry Hughes
CB Devin McCourty
CB Kareem Jackson
LB Darryl Washington

2nd Rounders
OL Rodger Saffold
DT Tyson Alualu
RB Toby Gerhart
RB Montario Hardesty
DT Lamar Houston
FS Chris Cook
OT Jared Veldheer
TE Dennis Pitta
OG John Jerry

3rd Rounders
FS Major Wright
DT Mike Neal
SS Darrel Stuckey
CB Kevin Thomas
TE Dorin Dickerson
LB Dekoda Watson
RB Ben Tate

4th Rounders
CB A.J. Jefferson
DE Lindsey Witten
LB Jamar Chaney
DT Linval Joseph

My observation is that many of my sleeper bargains are not being undervalued much anymore. :(

[nunusguy]

Three Texas A&M players who did not participate in the NFL Scouting Combine produced outstanding workouts at the school’s pro day, which was held Wednesday, indoors on FieldTurf.
Center Kevin Matthews, who is the son of Hall of Fame offensive lineman Bruce Matthews and cousin of current Green Bay Packers linebacker Clay Matthews, took advantage of his opportunity to impress the representatives from nine NFL teams in attendance.
Matthews (6-foot-3, 298 pounds) ran the 40-yard dash — which was run on a rubber matting placed over the FieldTurf — in 5.32 and 5.27 seconds, had a 29-inch vertical leap, an 8-foot, 3-inch broad jump and posted times of 4.83 seconds in the short shuttle and 7.69 seconds in the three-cone drill. He also did 32 repetitions of 225 pounds in the bench press. Those 32 bench press reps would have placed Matthews tied for ninth among offensive linemen at the combine. Where Matthews really made his mark was with an exceptional performance in the position drills.
http://blogs.nfl.com/category/pro-days/
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I dunno are those shuttle & 3-cone times any good ?
But look for Kubiak to sign this guy as an undrafted FA.

[nunusguy]

LeGarrette Blount, a controversial running back who has been trying to restore his image, was a no-show at Oregon’s pro day Thursday.
http://blogs.nfl.com/category/pro-days/
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Uh-oh. Not a good move there LeGarrette.

[Roy P]

Matthews (6-foot-3, 298 pounds) ran the 40-yard dash — which was run on a rubber matting placed over the FieldTurf — in 5.32 and 5.27 seconds, had a 29-inch vertical leap, an 8-foot, 3-inch broad jump and posted times of 4.83 seconds in the short shuttle and 7.69 seconds in the three-cone drill. He also did 32 repetitions of 225 pounds in the bench press. Those 32 bench press reps would have placed Matthews tied for ninth among offensive linemen at the combine. Where Matthews really made his mark was with an exceptional performance in the position drills.
http://blogs.nfl.com/category/pro-days/
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I dunno are those shuttle & 3-cone times any good ?
But look for Kubiak to sign this guy as an undrafted FA.

I also have my "prototypes" for the OL just for comparisons.....

OG
6’4”
310lbs
5.10 – 40 yd
1.77 – 10 yd
2.90 - 20 yd
4.65 – Shuttle
7.55 – Cone Drill
27” – Vertical
9’0” – Long Jump
25 – Bench Press

[painekiller]

LeGarrette Blount, a controversial running back who has been trying to restore his image, was a no-show at Oregon’s pro day Thursday.
http://blogs.nfl.com/category/pro-days/
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Uh-oh. Not a good move there LeGarrette.

That's the final flag waving for me. He's off my list.

Plus I am starting to believe that Kubiak's version of RB is a smaller guy then Blount. And the kid keeps acting like a me first punk.

[painekiller]

9’0” – Long Jump


Matthews long jump shows a lack of explosion, UDFA type who might be camp fodder and maybe a practice squad guy.

I see a coaching career in his future. At best.

[Bigtinylittle]

That's the final flag waving for me. He's off my list.

Plus I am starting to believe that Kubiak's version of RB is a smaller guy then Blount. And the kid keeps acting like a me first punk.


Supposedly he is going to be at his second Pro Day. This is one of the few times where I actually WOULD consider drafting a low character guy. Assuming he falls far enough down in the draft, that is. If we could get him for a fifth, and we only we got one year of production out of him before we had to let him go because of issues, it seems to me it would be worth it if we got him cheap.

Anyone care to predict how high he will be drafted?

[nunusguy]

Supposedly he is going to be at his second Pro Day. This is one of the few times where I actually WOULD consider drafting a low character guy. Assuming he falls far enough down in the draft, that is. If we could get him for a fifth, and we only we got one year of production out of him before we had to let him go because of issues, it seems to me it would be worth it if we got him cheap.

Anyone care to predict how high he will be drafted?
I dunno where he's drafted if he's drafted at all, but I'm with PK on this one because I wouldn't sign the guy at this point even if I could get him as an undrafted FA.

[painekiller]

I dunno where he's drafted if he's drafted at all, but I'm with PK on this one because I wouldn't sign the guy at this point even if I could get him as an undrafted FA.

Look back to 1995 and look at the RBs that Kubiak has used in Denver.

95-98 Terrell Davis 5-11 210
99 Olandis Gary 5-11 218
00-01 Mike Anderson 6-0 230
02-03 Clinton Portis 5-11 221
04 Reuben Droughns 5-11 220
05 Mike Anderson 6-0 230

Only one guys got the bulk of the carries as a rookie. Most where low carry 3rd years guys or older. His target seems to be 5-11 220. Kubiak has not gone for a big back as the #1 guy, and so Blount does not appear to fit his mold. Add the off field stuff and I do not see them taking a flyer on this kid.

[nunusguy]

For as well as Weatherspoon worked out on the field and for as much as his "character" is praised within the Missouri program, he has turned off a number of decision makers just as much with his outlandish, look-at-me, loudmouth personality and has been criticized for worrying too much about his image and post-football career aspirations before he has accomplished anything in the National Football League. "He never shuts up," one top executive said. "He was the loudest guy in the room for the bench press. He gives me a headache. I think he is full of (it). It's all about himself. I don't want him in my locker room."
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/03/02/combine-winners-and-losers
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RP you're gonna need to get your boys back on this one, 'cause people are saying bad things about him.
And these sorts of comments about Weatherspoon aren't isolated as I've seen other sources which had the same kind of negative reports about the Mizzou 'backer.

[Roy P]

RP you're gonna need to get your boys back on this one, 'cause people are saying bad things about him.
And these sorts of comments about Weatherspoon aren't isolated as I've seen other sources which had the same kind of negative reports about the Mizzou 'backer.

Whatever :rolleyes:

[painekiller]

For as well as Weatherspoon worked out on the field and for as much as his "character" is praised within the Missouri program, he has turned off a number of decision makers just as much with his outlandish, look-at-me, loudmouth personality and has been criticized for worrying too much about his image and post-football career aspirations before he has accomplished anything in the National Football League. "He never shuts up," one top executive said. "He was the loudest guy in the room for the bench press. He gives me a headache. I think he is full of (it). It's all about himself. I don't want him in my locker room."
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/03/02/combine-winners-and-losers
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RP you're gonna need to get your boys back on this one, 'cause people are saying bad things about him.
And these sorts of comments about Weatherspoon aren't isolated as I've seen other sources which had the same kind of negative reports about the Mizzou 'backer.

I've seen this one quote being used on a lot of sites. Weatherspoon's number speak for themselves. IMO I think we are starting to see the disinformation starting.

Any scout who doesn't think Weatherspoon a can play should be fired right now. Ray Lewis is the same kind of player and guy, do you think he would be #26 today?

[nunusguy]

I've seen this one quote being used on a lot of sites. Weatherspoon's number speak for themselves. IMO I think we are starting to see the disinformation starting.

Any scout who doesn't think Weatherspoon a can play should be fired right now. Ray Lewis is the same kind of player and guy, do you think he would be #26 today?

PK I don't know about putting Weatherspoons name, albeit a very good LB in this years NFL Draft, in the same sentence with the name of another LB who is recognized as one of the greatest ever at his position in the entire history of the NFL ?
And how would it go over for example if a rookie like Weatherspoon was to start his NFL career on a team like the Texans and attempt to be the take-charge holler-guy given some of the established vets on our defense ? Everything I've heard NFL players say about their rookie year in the league included being like children in that they were to be seen but not heard.

[Roy P]

And how would it go over for example if a rookie like Weatherspoon was to start his NFL career on a team like the Texans and attempt to be the take-charge holler-guy given some of the established vets on our defense ? Everything I've heard NFL players say about their rookie year in the league included being like children in that they were to be seen but not heard.

That's exactly what this team needs. The "leads by example" guys are not leaders, they just do what their responsibilities are. Every now and then, you get a guy who isn't afraid to step up and be heard. Ray Lewis is like that. Lawrence Taylor was like that. When you have production, you can demand that your teammates meet your intensity. As long as Spoon makes plays, he can run his mouth all he wants.

[painekiller]

PK I don't know about putting Weatherspoon's name, albeit a very good LB in this years NFL Draft, in the same sentence with the name of another LB who is recognized as one of the greatest ever at his position in the entire history of the NFL ?
And how would it go over for example if a rookie like Weatherspoon was to start his NFL career on a team like the Texans and attempt to be the take-charge holler-guy given some of the established vets on our defense ? Everything I've heard NFL players say about their rookie year in the league included being like children in that they were to be seen but not heard.

I'll add to Roy's comment, Cushing came in and did just this. He and Pollard were said to be the two biggest trash talkers on the team, forgot to add Smith to that list. That is 3 guys that added attitude to our defense which was not here since the Jamie Sharper/Aaron Glenn/Gary Walker days.

Cushing was able to push our LBs to be better, and it helped. Now don't get me wrong, I am not predicting a HOF career for a guy who has not played a down, but Weatherspoon can play the run sideline to sideline, and he can cover better then Ryans. IMO he is the most likely to be named Defensive Rookie of the Year. Unless McClain get it.

I would consider trading back in to the 1st round if Weatherspoon dropped to the high 20's, He is that good IMO.

[nunusguy]

Florida CB Joe Haden reportedly timed in the mid-4.4 range on both of his forty-yard dash runs at the Gators' Pro Day.

According to some stopwatches, Haden clocked as fast as the 4.3s despite a soggy, sloppy grass field in Gainesville. The draft's top cornerback, Haden has helped his stock immensely after timing in the 4.57-4.60 range with poor running technique and a lower back sprain at the Scouting Combine. We no longer see him getting past San Francisco at No. 13 overall.
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/35912561/ns/sports-player_news/
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Who knows who puts out these "reported times" and without some kind of official or authoritarian control source of the times coming out of these Pro Days, "unofficial" times just kinda take on a life of their own and become accepted. But this should work for Haden and restore the credibility to the kind of "reported" top-end sprint speed he possesses.

[Roy P]

Florida CB Joe Haden reportedly timed in the mid-4.4 range on both of his forty-yard dash runs at the Gators' Pro Day.

Dunlap ran a 4.66 on the soggy field. This is exactly why I like to compare all the players at the same time at the Combine. I would rather all times be electronically timed and not a hand-held stopwatch. Anyway, if Haden is still drafted in the top 10, that's good because it gives Dan Williams a better shot at dropping to number 20.

The best Pro-Day in Florida was turned in by Tim Tebow. Bringing the ball back from his ear instead of dropping down by his thigh should propel him to the 2nd round. I'd guess he pushes DelHomme in Cleveland. Then imagine Gruden coming out of retirement to work for Holmgren. :)

[nunusguy]

Dunlap ran a 4.66 on the soggy field. This is exactly why I like to compare all the players at the same time at the Combine. I would rather all times be electronically timed and not a hand-held stopwatch.

Electronic times are of course slower but more importantly consistant and most important accurate. And who even knows if any given Pro Day 40 track is,
well 40 yards in length ?

[Roy P]

Electronic times are of course slower but more importantly consistant and most important accurate. And who even knows if any given Pro Day 40 track is,
well 40 yards in length ?

As long as the times are consistent, then we can make real comparisons and not make million dollar decisions based upon somebody's thumb and reaction speed.

[kRocket]

The so-called electronic times in the combine are only partly electronic. They are still started manually but finished electronically. This process does mediate inconsistency, but does not eliminate it. See Taylor Mays number.

[nunusguy]

Back to the FLA pro Day. I listened to the Draft show on radio 1560 last night and Lance Zierland, who has a lot of contacts in the NFL scouting community, was told by his sources at the PD that Haden didn't break 4.5 and was somewhere in the 4.5s for his times regardless of the reported sub 4.5 performance.
BTW, the 1560 Draft show is on Podcast so check it out if you're so inclined: with LZ and John Harris on together its really excellent.

[nunusguy]

http://blogs.nfl.com/category/pro-days/
A strong performance during Senior Bowl week and a solid NFL Scouting Combine effort helped Boise State CB Kyle Wilson enhance his draft status. He built on the momentum from those workouts with another exceptional outing at the Broncos’ pro day on Friday.

Wilson (185 pounds) ran the 40-yard dash in 4.47 and 4.43 seconds, had a 38-inch vertical jump, a 10-foot, 2-inch broad jump, a 4.10-second short shuttle and a 6.84-second three-cone drill. He also did very good in the position drills. This workout probably moves him into the first round.

All 32 teams had representatives in attendance, and six teams (Ravens, 49ers, Cardinals, Eagles, Bengals and Rams) had defensive back coaches on hand.

The workout took place indoors on FieldTurf. It’s a good thing, too, since it was cold with some snow showers in the area.
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Looks like a good effort for Kyle Wilson on his ProDay and I would definitely put him in the "Riser" department.

[nunusguy]

FWIW, watched NFL Network this afternoon and a new name has joined Haden & Kyle Wilson among the top 3: 'Bama Kareem Jackson and
NFL Net says some teams actually have Jackson as #1.
Mayoc has this order - Haden, Wilson, Jackson. Apparently Wilson is the best cover guy, but can be a little shy about going after a runner, while Jackson is the toughest in run-coverage.
Before this the consensus seems to have had McCourtny from Rutgers in the top 3 ? We will see Thursday.

[kRocket]

FWIW, watched NFL Network this afternoon and a new name has joined Haden & Kyle Wilson among the top 3: 'Bama Kareem Jackson and
NFL Net says some teams actually have Jackson as #1.
Mayoc has this order - Haden, Wilson, Jackson. Apparently Wilson is the best cover guy, but can be a little shy about going after a runner, while Jackson is the toughest in run-coverage.
Before this the consensus seems to have had McCourtny from Rutgers in the top 3 ? We will see Thursday.I heard somewhere that Jackson is considered the most pro-ready CB because of his college coach.