Tweaking our offensive/defensive lines

[kRocket]

I would like some comment on the keep/replace personnel in our lines. These are not suggested 1st rounders, just mid-rounders that might help.

Defensive Line

I like Lamarr Houston a lot, but is he better than Amobi or would he just be a very good back up and we look for a NT.

The tackles are the only ones on the defensive line I can think of replacing.

Offensive Line

This one is trickier with Gibbs leaving but Kubes staying. Are we sticking with ZBS or adding a road grader mode to it or just switching over completely. I would love Brandon Carter out of TT. God know he has the size but he also has a mean streak that I like and may be catching. I remember the old days of the Raiders, they had half crazy people on the offensive line and they scared the other side, lol.

Anyway I would enjoy hearing comment about the Texan lines. Who needs to stay and who needs to go and WHY?

[Roy P]

Defensive Tackles take a while to before they "get it" as a general rule. I believe somebody a while back showed the ages of very good DTs and when they had marked improvement. There was some evidence showing that 28 year olds had the best stats. The reason that thread was started was because a lot of people were ready to label Okoye as a bust. Then someone else tried to explain that there was a 3-4 year learning curve. ANYWAY, that is all to say that I don't expect to draft a kid who is going to be better than Okoye or Cody for that matter. So, I'm merely wanting somebody to come in so that Jeff Zgonina can finally retire. Perhaps a NT to push Frank Okam into either doing something or sending him to Law School.

The offensive line needs talent up the middle desperately. If Chester Pitts isn't healthy, then we have to draft 2 OL. Getting Antoine Caldwell in the 3rd round last year showed me how hard it is going to be to get a rookie on the OL unless he's a 1st round draft pick. I don't know if Caldwell will be allowed to play OC this year or not, but I would like to get another RG for the future. I think Studdard is a joke, but the HC doesn't. I'm no fan of Brisiel, White, or Myers. So that's 5 interior OL who are questionable. My guess is that we only draft one OL (either in the 2nd or 3rd round). The guy will be at least 6' 4" and 305lbs (can be taller or heavier). I'm hopeful that he is a strong mauler that can move a pile. My current target is Kyle Calloway. But that can change once I see more one-on-one drills at the Senior Bowl and the measurements at the Combine.

[nunusguy]

Getting Antoine Caldwell in the 3rd round last year showed me how hard it is going to be to get a rookie on the OL unless he's a 1st round draft pick.

You're gonna need to get real and prioritize your wish list since you've got the Mizzou backer and an interior OLineman both as you're first round pick and last time I checked we've only got one pick in the top round ?

[Roy P]

You're gonna need to get real and prioritize your wish list since you've got the Mizzou backer and an interior OLineman both as you're first round pick and last time I checked we've only got one pick in the top round ?

My wish list is prioritized, take a look at the thread called "My Guys". I don't really say that I have to have an OL in the first round. In fact, I won't ever box myself in and say that a particular position has to be drafted in a particular round. It is always BPA. Currently, I think the BPA when we pick will be Weatherspoon, but that's not a certainty.

[HPF Bob]

I'd leave the d-line alone. We've obviously thrown enough resources at it and it is no longer a liability. If Eyechart decides to retire, we can find somebody on the waiver wire.

The o-line needs work but I'd like to give Coleman a chance. If we used a 2nd or 3rd on a guard, I'd be okay with that.

IMO, the secondary needs fixing and another RB would be a good pickup. That's where I'd spend the resources.

[NBT]

We definitely improved the secondary and the LB corp in the last draft, yet we still ended up like 17th in defense. An improvement, to be sure, over years past, but it won't get us into the playoffs. So that leaves the DL, or the coaches for same as the prime culprits. I would have to argue with Bob in saying the DL does not need any help. I think the DL is THE place where we need to beef-up. Matter of fact I would use our #1 pick if a suitable DT were still there at #20. I realize that is unlikely to happen, so I would use either a second or third on it. On offense I see OG/C & RB as the prime targets.

[Roy P]

The o-line needs work but I'd like to give Coleman a chance.

I'll bite, who is Coleman and why are you giving him a chance?

[cland]

I think Bob meant, Caldwell. I know most of us are big fans of this style anyways, but more than any other year this seems to be the year to trade down Cleveland Browns style (#5 pick turned into slew of picks, players, and a center at pick #21)

The reason is that we have needs that are much better addressed in rounds 2 and 3. Guards, Centers, Run-stopping 4-3 NTs, Safeties, and RBs. Unless a CB that sits atop our board falls, I'm all for getting multiple picks in those rounds.

[sinnister]

I am probably going to state something that most everyone will disagree with, but I would love to see us trade up and draft Eric Berry. Adding an Elite safety would instantly make the secondary better, and could take the defense to the next level. With that being said, if we were to trade down and pick up picks, I want complain. There are several players I have been watching that could be had, and would add needed depth or playmakers. Still, if he puts up the numbers that I think he will at the combine, and he is potentially in the Ed Reed mold, I would love an Eric Berry pick. If I am betting, no way we would do it.

If we want do that, then for God sakes add some muscle to the interior line!! I am scared of drafting a DLinemen in the first round, but I could live with an OLineman in the first or second. As long as we can find an elite safety, or fairly elite......heck, as long as Busing isn't on the field......maybe on the team, I can live with that. I won't even start my Chris Brown rant.

[NBT]

I don't necessarily see it that way. Eugene Wilson is signed for 2 more years, and if he comes back 100% from his injury, I don't see that big a need at safety after the play we got from Pollard. If I draft for the secondary early it would be for CB, assuming dRob will be gone. Also I would like to see if Molden can live up to his potential and get off the training table this year.

[Roy P]

How much do you give up to trade up for Eric Berry? Do we have enough to get that high? Could we trade a Dunta Robinson and some draft picks to get it done? How much of a drop off is Earl Thomas from Eric Berry? For that matter, could Brandon Ghee play FS without giving up anything other than a 2nd round pick?

[HPF Bob]

You guys do realize we're picking 20th this year, right? We're not in that 8-12 range anymore. So trading down (ala Cleveland) doesn't work nearly as well when you're already starting at 20 and moving up to get Eric Berry means trading half of your draft to climb up and get him.

Oh, and I did mean Caldwell. My bad.

[sinnister]

How much do you give up to trade up for Eric Berry? Do we have enough to get that high? Could we trade a Dunta Robinson and some draft picks to get it done? How much of a drop off is Earl Thomas from Eric Berry? For that matter, could Brandon Ghee play FS without giving up anything other than a 2nd round pick?


Roy, I do like Witherspoon as well. I noticed your signature. Personally, I think Earl Thomas could be very good. I don't think he is in the same league as Berry, but I can't honestly answer how much better our secondary would be with Berry vs. Thomas. How much will it cost......Wow. Another good question. Would they take Drob......Another good one. I believe that Berry could make us significantly better, which is why I do the deal. It's probably to early to say what the Texans will do, but it is fun thinking about it.

[sinnister]

I don't necessarily see it that way. Eugene Wilson is signed for 2 more years, and if he comes back 100% from his injury, I don't see that big a need at safety after the play we got from Pollard. If I draft for the secondary early it would be for CB, assuming dRob will be gone. Also I would like to see if Molden can live up to his potential and get off the training table this year.

I like Eugene Wilson, and it goes without saying that he is probably the best FS we have ever had. Pollard was a God-send. I shudder to think of what our record would be without him; however, I get a warm fuzzy feeling of having Pollard and Berry starting, and keeping Eugene signed......quality depth at safety.....No more Busing......All I want from Molden is to stay healthy. Will it happen.....Probably not. I think we need help at corner, but look how much Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu help make their secondary look better. If Ed Reed retires, there will be a significant drop off in the Ravens secondary. He makes the corners that much better. I think Berry can do the same.

[sinnister]

You guys do realize we're picking 20th this year, right? We're not in that 8-12 range anymore. So trading down (ala Cleveland) doesn't work nearly as well when you're already starting at 20 and moving up to get Eric Berry means trading half of your draft to climb up and get him.

Oh, and I did mean Caldwell. My bad.

Yup. You are right. I think that there is no way it happens. It also means not filling some needed holes. All valid points.

[NBT]

I just think Wilson coming back negates the have to have need for FS in this coming draft. DT & OL are just too good in this draft to sacrifice the player or draft pick it would take to get Berry. I am like PK in that I usually like the idea of trading down. However, with us not drafting till the 20th pick this year, the idea of trading up holds some appeal for me.

[HPF Bob]

Having watched Thomas all season, I think he's an excellent ballhawk who makes big plays but he's not a big hitter. You pair him with Pollard (or "Brady Killah", as I've started to call him) and you have a good combo. You pair him with a safety who can't stuff the run, and you are more vulnerable.

[Roy P]

You pair him with Pollard (or "Brady Killah", as I've started to call him) and you have a good combo. You pair him with a safety who can't stuff the run, and you are more vulnerable.

Of course I'm going to pair him with Pollard. That guy was my MVP.

[sinnister]

Having watched Thomas all season, I think he's an excellent ballhawk who makes big plays but he's not a big hitter. You pair him with Pollard (or "Brady Killah", as I've started to call him) and you have a good combo. You pair him with a safety who can't stuff the run, and you are more vulnerable.

I havent seen a lot of Thomas, but the little bit I have seen of him I like. I thought he played great when I have watched him. From what I have read, I would love to pair him with Pollard, just like I would love to pair Berry with Pollard. I am afraid that we may have to trade up to get a shot at Thomas though.

[cland]

You guys do realize we're picking 20th this year, right? We're not in that 8-12 range anymore. So trading down (ala Cleveland) doesn't work nearly as well when you're already starting at 20 and moving up to get Eric Berry means trading half of your draft to climb up and get him.

Oh, and I did mean Caldwell. My bad.

I feel like trading down out of the #20 into the second round, is almost easier than trying to get out of the top #10 these days. With the depth in this class I'd love to see us draft at #37, #51, #60, and maybe an extra pick in the third.

[nero THE zero]

I feel like trading down out of the #20 into the second round, is almost easier than trying to get out of the top #10 these days. With the depth in this class I'd love to see us draft at #37, #51, #60, and maybe an extra pick in the third.

With the absence of a salary cap and the lingering possibility of a rookie pay scale I don't think this paradigm holds true anymore.

I do agree about adding picks though.

[HPF Bob]

It sure seems to me that our top three draft needs are DB, RB, OG in no particular order. So, before trading down, I'd look to see where each group looks like they'll be losing their top players and not fall below that.

Of course, free agency could and probably will change our needs list which is why mocks at this time of year seem a bit pointless.

[NBT]

Sure Bob, but it still gives us a chance to soundoff and give our opinions, whether or not they have any efficacy.

[Roy P]

It sure seems to me that our top three draft needs are DB, RB, OG in no particular order.

The next question is when we talk DB, are we saying CB or FS? I really think that the only difference makers at FS are Berry or Thomas. I'm starting to get on the bandwagon that thinks Taylor Mays may not be the next Sean Taylor.

We can get an OG in the 3rd, but does he crack the lineup and make an impact?

So, a FS in the 1st, OG in the 2nd, and RB in the 3rd.
If the FS is off the board, then I'd say OG in the 1st, then CB in the 2nd, RB in the 3rd.

[sinnister]

The next question is when we talk DB, are we saying CB or FS? I really think that the only difference makers at FS are Berry or Thomas. I'm starting to get on the bandwagon that thinks Taylor Mays may not be the next Sean Taylor.

We can get an OG in the 3rd, but does he crack the lineup and make an impact?

So, a FS in the 1st, OG in the 2nd, and RB in the 3rd.
If the FS is off the board, then I'd say OG in the 1st, then CB in the 2nd, RB in the 3rd.

I totally agree Roy. I think the difference makers at db are the FS, and that is Berry and Thomas, in that order. So, if we are going in that direction, that is great. If not, then OL, RB, DL, or even LB. Heck, a dominant WR to pair with AJ would be great.