View Full Version : Official Texans vs. Saints Game Thread, 8/22/2009
Keith
08-21-2009, 09:59 PM
It's football time in Houston once again.
Should be an excellent test for the new defense.
If you're headed out to the game, consider making a song request by emailing gamedaymusic@houstontexans.com.
Filed under things maybe only I care about: The Texans are a perfect 2-0 against the Saints in the preseason with both wins coming at the Superdome. Here's guessing our preseason czar Gary Kubiak keeps that record unblemished.
HPF Bob
08-22-2009, 04:12 PM
Austin viewers can find it on cable channel 12 (KNVA) again. I don't think they have it in Hi-Def.
Gametime!
Saints kick off. AD brings it out to about the 27.
Texans moving the ball.... face 4th and 3 at the Saints 40...
Texans go for it and fail but personal foul on the Saints gives them a 1st down. Ball at the NO 29.
Ball currently at the NO 13...
Dump off to David Anderson from the 8yd line goes for the score!
Texans 7, Saints 0
Saints receive kickoff and setup at their own 29.
Saints rollin' down the field. Ball currently at the Texan 15...
---------
Mario on a sack puts the ball back at the 14... Kubes to challenge that Brees fumbled before being down ... bad challenge methinks...
Dang, ball is ruled an inc pass - no sack.... ball at the 10....
Next play, Brees hits Pierre Thomas all alone for the TD
Texans 7, Saints 7
Saints kickoff. AD brings it out to the 24.
Slaton has a couple of nice gains...Texans moving the ball.... currently at midfield
End of 1st quarter...
Drive stalls - Texans to punt.
Turk's punt goes into the endzone - Saints ball at the 20.
Saints rollin' again... ball currently at the Texan 41..
1st down Saints at the Texan 31.
Saints at the Texan 10.
1st and goal Saints at the Texan 6.
3rd and goal at the 4. Saints 3 for 3 so far on 3rd down.
Adibi pops the receiver and breaks up the 3rd down pass attempt.
Saints to go for the FG. FG is no good!
Score remains:
Texans 7, Saints 7
Texans first teamers still in....
1st down Texans at their own 36.
On 3rd down, pass is ruled incomplete... Texans to punt.
Not much on the punt return. Saints ball at their own 24.
And boom, just like that, Bell takes it all the way - about 45 yards for the TD on a run.... Run defense not so hot today..
Saints 14, Texans 7
Orlovsky in. Nice pass to DA for a 1st down. Ball at the Texan 43. Saints to challenge the spot.... Play is upheld...
Dreesen, nice catch to the Saints 36. 2 minutes left in the half..
Eeew... Dan-o throws a pick. Saints ball at their own 44...
Saints run out of time and elect to go for the FG from the Texan 4. FG is good.
Saints 17, Texans 7
2 seconds left in the half.
painekiller
08-22-2009, 08:41 PM
Our LBs are not looking good. And our Safeties suck. We need to do a serious upgrade of the safeties next off season. And I mean top two picks need to be middle of the defense guys.
painekiller
08-22-2009, 08:49 PM
Fred Bennett cannot tackle worth a flip, anything else I am missing?
Oh yes, this is preseason and it does not matter.
Big Texas
08-22-2009, 08:52 PM
Halftime
This is really looking bad. I am really hoping that Cushing makes a tremendous impact on this defense next week. We let this guy Bell just misuse and abuse us. Okam has been getting blown up on the run plays. I have not even seen Deljuan. Is he playin? What about Okoye? It seemed as if all the life was sucked out of them when the sack was over turned.
It wasn't like they were doing that good before the sack. But after wards they got worse and worse. We are getting blown away on the ground by a passing team. It was if Payton saw something during practice and just decided to exploit it.
Quinn, welcome to the NFL. Colston just misused him those last few minutes.
And Orlavsky, what in the world were you thinking?
Halftime Stats:
Passing: Shaub 11/16 97 yds, 1 TD; Orlovsky 2/3 29 yds, 1 INT
Rushing: Slaton 6/30, Brown 4/5
Receiving: AJ 4/38, many with 2 catches
Tackles: Ryans 6, M. Williams/Wilson/Quin 4
Time of Possession: Texans 15:02, Saints 14:58
Big Texas
08-22-2009, 08:53 PM
Fred Bennett cannot tackle worth a flip
Yes he looked terrible. where was Ferguson?
Saints receive the 2nd half kick and bring it out to the 30.
On 3rd and 8, Barwin gets the sack! Saints have to punt.
JJ fair catches at the Texan 35.
Big Texas
08-22-2009, 08:58 PM
Great sack Barwin. Keep it up
Nice catch (then pop) by JJ brings the ball out to the Saint 44.
3rd and 7 for the Texans.
PI on Saints gives the Texans a 1st down. Ball at the Saints 25.
Dan-o throws a nice touch pass to AD for a 25 yd. TD.
Saints 17, Texans 14.
Much better....
Big Texas
08-22-2009, 09:05 PM
The fade to ADavis looked great. He definitely has potential. If Kubiak can just keep his head straight and deprogram all memories of Detroit then we may have a solid backup
Texans kick off. Saints bring it out to the 26.
Defense gets good pressure and Saints go 3 and out.
Punt is fair caught by JJ at the Texan 28.
Texans go 3 and out. Texans to punt.
Turks punt is fielded by Harper who brings it all the way back.... Taunting penalty by the Saints to be enforced on the kickoff. 79 yd return.
Saints 24, Texans 14
Nconroe
08-22-2009, 09:32 PM
Boy, our second team special team did a pretty poor job on punt coverage letting NO take it all the way. NO leading 24-14.
Orlosvsky's arm is pretty strong, 11 of 14 , 1 TD, 1 int right now. Martinez making a few good catches. Texans back to the 4 yard line..
JJ's nice return on the ensuing kickoff is nullified by holding. Texans ball at their own 33.
Casey with a nice catch for about 21 yards.
Martinez with a nice catch for a 1st down.
Moats for about 9. Ball at the Saints 25.
On 3rd and 4, short pass to Martinez is good for the 1st down. Ball at the Saints 11.
Short pass to A Hill puts the ball at the Saints 2.
Texans to go for it on 4th and 2 but Dan-O is swarmed. Saints ball at about the 19.
Nconroe
08-22-2009, 09:42 PM
Well atleast our second string defense is doing better, no first downs for complete 3rd quarter for NO second string offense. now into fourth quarter.
nice 60 yard punt by Turk rolls out on 1 yard line. we need a turnover and points now. of course its preseason.
4th quarter.
Saints go 3 and out.
Saints punt is covered up by JJ. Penalty on the Saints gives the Texans the ball about their own 42.
Texans go 3 and out - have to punt.
Turks punt makes a left at Albuquerque and is out at the 1 yard line.
On 3rd down, Harrington runs for the 1st down but is shaken up. Timeout.
Brunell in.
1st and 10 Saints at their own 29.
Late hit by DelJuan on Brunell puts the Saints at the Texan 45.
Saints to the 6. 1st and goal.
Saints run it in for the score even after being penalized.
Saints 31, Texans 14
This was the sorriest game from all areas, offense, defense, and special teams, that I have ever seen from Kubiak's Texans. I know NOLA had the top rated offense last year, but we made their defense look like it was #1 too. I was at this game. I can vouch for what I just said. I am so steamed, I think I had better just let it go at that.
JJ brings the kick off back to about the 20.
Texans go 3 and out and punt. New Orleans ball at their own 34.
Penalty puts the ball at the Texan 49.
Deep pass is caught at the 1.
Saints punch it in.
Saints 38, Texans 14
Brink is in. Texans at their own 20.
Texans get a couple of 1st downs. 2 minute warning.
Texans now at midfield. Martinez impressing.
TexicanMexican
08-22-2009, 10:17 PM
This was the sorriest game from all areas, offense, defense, and special teams, that I have ever seen from Kubiak's Texans. I know NOLA had the top rated offense last year, but we made their defense look like it was #1 too. I was at this game. I can vouch for what I just said. I am so steamed, I think I had better just let it go at that.
I was at the game also. Pretty much left a steaming pile on the field tonight. The first team defense was just whipped and punched in the mouth repeatedly.
PI on Saints puts the ball at the 8.
Saints intercept on the next play.
Saints kneel it out.
Final Score:
Saints 38, Texans 14
Bah, it's bad luck to win all your preseason games anyway....;)
9 long days till the Monday night game against the Vikings....
chuck
08-22-2009, 10:24 PM
The first team defense is worse than ever. The offense is going to need to score 50 points a game.
barrett
08-22-2009, 10:43 PM
Negatives first.
Orlovsky is no good. He may be a serviceable backup for us, but we payed way too much for a guy who has no chance of becoming a good starter. He is clumsy. He struggles with his back pedal, with rolling out, with handoffs, etc... His arm is fine, and he can be coached about throws like the pick he threw, but he is just plain clumsy.
And yes our Safeties suck in all facets and we are soft against the run right now. Hopefully TJ and Cushing can help in that area. Right now we are very small at LB. And Fred Bennett has a Jekyl and Hyde thing going.
As for positives, the offense looked very good besides penalties. I am not too concerned about that in the preseason. Jacoby looked very good. Barwin has fantastic hands and seems to have learned more pass rush moves in one year at DE then most guys do in a career. Okoye was active. Really the whole DL looked good if we can get a LB to fill. And all of our WRs looked good. And we appear to have finally learned how to run a screen.
Next week will tell far more. I hope we see Molden.
painekiller
08-22-2009, 11:31 PM
And yes our Safeties suck in all facets and we are soft against the run right now. Hopefully TJ and Cushing can help in that area. Right now we are very small at LB. And Fred Bennett has a Jekyl and Hyde thing going.
.... Okoye was active. Really the whole DL looked good if we can get a LB to fill. And all of our WRs looked good. And we appear to have finally learned how to run a screen.
Next week will tell far more. I hope we see Molden.
That is how I see it also. Our LBs and Safeties are not filling in. When the DL is penetrating you have to fill in. We did not. Plus we are not a good tackling team right now.
Keith
08-23-2009, 01:04 AM
http://www.inthebullseye.com/archive/2009/20090822.html
Wow, a chuck sighting. Were you there tonight?
And Arky, thanks as always for the comms.
.......I hope we see Molden.
The announcers mentioned Molden during action at least a couple of times last night.... I never saw him. I think they were mistaking Glover Quin (#29) for Molden (#28)...
nunusguy
08-23-2009, 11:09 AM
How worried should we be by last nights performance given its just a preseason game and not even the semi-meaningfull 3rd preseason game at that ?
Well what is really worrisome to me is the play of the interior Dline. I saw
one running play up the middle by the Saints where Okoye was tossed aside like a rag-doll, and Okam (who made some plays last week in KC), was hardly a factor.
And here's my question: unless they were thinking about trading OD, why would the Texans use their 5th round pick on yet another TE instead of drafting a DT, even if they didn't feel he was worth a 5th round pick ? Maybe
they still didn't realize the problems they had at DT ? Well I'm thinking they realize that this morning. That 3rd preseaon game is a week from Monday,
and it's looking like it will be a truly meaningful preseaon game this year, one way or the other.
Joshua
08-23-2009, 12:06 PM
paine and barrett,
I'm curious why you both thought the D line played well last night. I saw a line that was getting gashed right up the middle for 6-8 yards on first down virtually every play. I agree that the linebackers and DBs need to come up and play the run better but your D line needs to make some of those plays themselves and at least, not get pushed around like they did. While I get your comment about the second levels filling in, were both of you envisioning a defense where the primary run stopping would be provided by Demeco and Eugene Wilson? That seems like a recipe for disaster.
It was a Preseason game for NOLA too, yet they operated on all cylinders, and seemingly executed to perfection. The fact that we gave up a big play in all 4 quarters is just not acceptable anytime.
The other thing about being at the game was all the gleeful Saints fans in my section having such a good time at our expense. I'll be some time getting over that. You don't like to be humiliated in your own stadium. :mad::mad:
barrett
08-23-2009, 02:08 PM
paine and barrett,
I'm curious why you both thought the D line played well last night. I saw a line that was getting gashed right up the middle for 6-8 yards on first down virtually every play. I agree that the linebackers and DBs need to come up and play the run better but your D line needs to make some of those plays themselves and at least, not get pushed around like they did. While I get your comment about the second levels filling in, were both of you envisioning a defense where the primary run stopping would be provided by Demeco and Eugene Wilson? That seems like a recipe for disaster.
Almost everyone on this board wanted the DL playing forward, penetrating, and aggressive. They did this last night. The problem is that when you shoot gaps you are shooting yourself out of the play as often as not. That's why not many DL play to shoot the gaps. At least not with both DTs. Yet everyone was excited that Bush promised this style. And from what I saw last night, the DL was in the backfield often against both the run and the pass.
The problem is that the LBs MUST play downhill against the run if your DL is going to penetrate. Specifically they must fill the gaps. They must take on and shed blocks from the FB or pulling OL. Our LBs are not made for this. They are all small and they all struggle when blocked by OL. Especially Demeco. He will struggle if we play like this. He is too small to deal with OL.
We must hope that Travis Johnson is back soon. He is not a great DT, but he is our best in terms of standing his ground in the run game. We must also hope Cushing can get healthy and provide good size at the point of attack. Without both of these things happening we will be in trouble on defense even before teams start exploiting our secondary. Honestly, with our personnel we may be worse off in this scheme than the one we played last year. Our only hope is to play from ahead and pressure the QB in a big way.
So I think for what is being asked of our DL (penetration), they did a fine job last night. I just don't think we have the back 7 to support that kind of defense.
HPF Bob
08-23-2009, 02:24 PM
What this told me is how badly the Chiefs must suck. Our defense really got chewed up. Back to the drawing board.
Big Texas
08-23-2009, 04:03 PM
here was a passing team that completely abandoned their normal style of play and ran all over us with a sub par running back. I don't care how good a game Bell had, he is not as good as the game he had on us. I know right now that might seem like the words of a sore loser, but I will just sit back and let time tell on that one.
With that said, I do believe that our Dline got some good penetration, however Peyton counter planned for our game plan. It seemed as if he knew we would be aggressive at getting to the QB, so he just punched it right up the gut on us. The intriguing thing to me is that we never counter his counter. We just continued to get punched in kidney.
P.S. There were a few of those running plays where Okam got walked backwards several yards. Hard to believe for a guy his size. The only thing I could think is that he had become worried about the RB getting past him that he started to second guess his bull rush.
painekiller
08-24-2009, 11:04 AM
Almost everyone on this board wanted the DL playing forward, penetrating, and aggressive. They did this last night. The problem is that when you shoot gaps you are shooting yourself out of the play as often as not. That's why not many DL play to shoot the gaps. At least not with both DTs. Yet everyone was excited that Bush promised this style. And from what I saw last night, the DL was in the backfield often against both the run and the pass.
The problem is that the LBs MUST play downhill against the run if your DL is going to penetrate. Specifically they must fill the gaps. They must take on and shed blocks from the FB or pulling OL. Our LBs are not made for this. They are all small and they all struggle when blocked by OL. Especially Demeco. He will struggle if we play like this. He is too small to deal with OL.
I think that sums it up pretty well. How big a miss is Okoye now, especially when you could have had Willis. I liked Okoye in college and I thought he would be better then he is playing so far, but I had Willis higher.
nunusguy
08-24-2009, 11:56 AM
I remember Rick Smith saying how happy, even surprised he was that Okoye was still on the Board when the Texans were picking in the #10 slot
back in 2007, and his remarks seemed genuinely sincere. And I dunno, but there was very strong rumors of opportunites to trade the pick.
I doubt that Smith would have drafted Willis even if Okoye wasn't available, given that he played the same position that DeMeco, who had just been named NFL Defensive rookie of the year in 2006, played though with benefit of hindsight today we know we'd much rather have DeMeco at WIL and Willis at MIKE than what we have now, DeMeco & Okoye. Other interesting picks back then would have been Marshawn Lynch & Darrel Revis, just to name a couple.
But along with taking Jacobey with the next pick, that first Draft for Rick Smith is lookin more & more like a real stinker.
painekiller
08-24-2009, 01:35 PM
Other interesting picks back then would have been Marshawn Lynch & Darrel Revis, just to name a couple.
But along with taking Jacobey with the next pick, that first Draft for Rick Smith is lookin more & more like a real stinker.
Lynch would not have passed McNair's smell test, he has off the field issue and will miss 3 games this season due to continued off the field issues.
Revis would have been a solid pick and really helped this team.
I will throw in Adam Carriker would have had a year under Weaver and then been the bookend to Mario.
As for the Jocabey pick I thought he was a round or two early, but not many guys from that drafts 3rd round turn out to be very good.
barrett
08-24-2009, 03:30 PM
I remember Rick Smith saying how happy, even surprised he was that Okoye was still on the Board when the Texans were picking in the #10 slot
back in 2007, and his remarks seemed genuinely sincere. And I dunno, but there was very strong rumors of opportunites to trade the pick.
I doubt that Smith would have drafted Willis even if Okoye wasn't available, given that he played the same position that DeMeco, who had just been named NFL Defensive rookie of the year in 2006, played though with benefit of hindsight today we know we'd much rather have DeMeco at WIL and Willis at MIKE than what we have now, DeMeco & Okoye. Other interesting picks back then would have been Marshawn Lynch & Darrel Revis, just to name a couple.
But along with taking Jacobey with the next pick, that first Draft for Rick Smith is lookin more & more like a real stinker.
I don't know that Demeco would make a great WLB even if it was once considered his position. He is best when chasing plays from the middle. He makes lots of tackles and has great leadership skills. All of this makes him good at MLB (and great when protected by his DTs).
If you put him at WLB his lack of speed hurts him. Additionally he is average at best in pass coverage. I think he is in the perfect spot right now. I am not sure another LB would have had a great impact for us.
Now a CB like Revis could have solved some problems. But I am still willing to wait and see what Okoye becomes. He got penetration and rushed the passer well the other night. I just think he will always struggle unless he plays next to a big and strong DT that can cover for him in the run game.
Nconroe
08-24-2009, 07:45 PM
I don't think you can blame the loss on one or two guys or one or two plays, it was pretty much the complete defense, starters and all, all positions. Only the third quarter defense was ok. Special teams were not good overall, atleast on the one big return. and offense was not too good once starters were out. so, I'll let it go as a character building, learning experience, during preseason, maybe they were flat for some reason. Hope to see things get better as more starters return from injuries and season continues.
chuck
08-24-2009, 09:55 PM
[URL]Wow, a chuck sighting. Were you there tonight?
No, I'm not in town at the moment. I'll be at the regular season opener. Do you still tailgate at the old place? If so I'll come find you. It would be good to see you again.
nunusguy
08-25-2009, 06:50 AM
But I am still willing to wait and see what Okoye becomes.
Barrett you truly have the “patience of Job”.
Joshua
08-25-2009, 11:10 AM
paine and barrett,
Thanks for the response to my questions. While I would be the first to admit that I'm no expert on D line schemes, I guess I had a different idea of what a more aggressive D versus a read-and-react one would look like. While being more aggressive does have the tradeoff that you will run yourself out of plays sometimes, I had never envisioned it as being a scheme where our linemen simply charge blindly upfield regardless of down and distance. Perhaps wrongly, I assumed that there would still be some recognition of the likelihood of pass versus run and the aggressiveness of their charge would be dictated accordingly. Clearly, this is nothing more than guesswork much of the time, but other teams seem to be able to do it. I guess my assumption was wrong, but I assumed that our more agressive approach was one reserved primarily for plays when we anticipated a pass, rather than our default mode in all scenarios.
Also, while I was at the game and haven't had the opportunity to rewatch it. I distinctly remember several running plays where Okoye and Okam just got walked backward completely out of the play. They didn't run past the play because of their aggression and stellar pass rush. Instead, I saw 2 guys who just got worked over at the point of attack. While it is too early to draw any major conclusions, I'm at least slightly concerned and I think our interior line play warrants a close eye. In this regard we're lucky, they won't get a better test than the one coming in Monday night.
Keith
08-25-2009, 12:09 PM
No, I'm not in town at the moment. I'll be at the regular season opener. Do you still tailgate at the old place? If so I'll come find you. It would be good to see you again.
I haven't been to a tailgate in a long time. Wife and kids usually want to make a bee-line into the stadium when we arrive.
I wouldn't mind crashing someone else's tailgate to meet up though if another ItB'er has one going (Mike - did you know someone?). I'm also in the middle of the last row of sec 137, usually an hour or so before kickoff even, if you want to stop by on the way to your seats (you still in the mezz above me?).
chuck
08-25-2009, 02:09 PM
I haven't been to a tailgate in a long time. Wife and kids usually want to make a bee-line into the stadium when we arrive.
I wouldn't mind crashing someone else's tailgate to meet up though if another ItB'er has one going (Mike - did you know someone?). I'm also in the middle of the last row of sec 137, usually an hour or so before kickoff even, if you want to stop by on the way to your seats (you still in the mezz above me?).
Exactly, 354. I'll come find you before a game. If you end up crashing a tailgate let me know.
barrett
08-25-2009, 07:03 PM
paine and barrett,
Thanks for the response to my questions. While I would be the first to admit that I'm no expert on D line schemes, I guess I had a different idea of what a more aggressive D versus a read-and-react one would look like. While being more aggressive does have the tradeoff that you will run yourself out of plays sometimes, I had never envisioned it as being a scheme where our linemen simply charge blindly upfield regardless of down and distance. Perhaps wrongly, I assumed that there would still be some recognition of the likelihood of pass versus run and the aggressiveness of their charge would be dictated accordingly. Clearly, this is nothing more than guesswork much of the time, but other teams seem to be able to do it. I guess my assumption was wrong, but I assumed that our more agressive approach was one reserved primarily for plays when we anticipated a pass, rather than our default mode in all scenarios.
Also, while I was at the game and haven't had the opportunity to rewatch it. I distinctly remember several running plays where Okoye and Okam just got walked backward completely out of the play. They didn't run past the play because of their aggression and stellar pass rush. Instead, I saw 2 guys who just got worked over at the point of attack. While it is too early to draw any major conclusions, I'm at least slightly concerned and I think our interior line play warrants a close eye. In this regard we're lucky, they won't get a better test than the one coming in Monday night.
I don't think we are really disagreeing all that much. I don't think the DL played a great game, I just think they did a large part of what they were asked. I think they were in the backfield often.
As for diagnosing when a play is a run or a pass, this is the strength of a read and react DL scheme. If you are firing off you are not doing much diagnosing. So we had gaps and lanes. And we have no LBs or Safetys whose strength is filling a whole. This makes the DL look very bad. As for other teams doing it, the only team I know of who plays with 2 DTs penetrating is the colts. And they get gouged by the run, but they play with the lead most of the time so it is not a big deal. And of course they have Bob Sanders in the box and they lose when they don't.
Most teams have at least one DT anchoring and eating blockers. We don't have that guy. Travis Johnson is far and away our best at it, and he is average (and missing). Okam, for all his size, is better at penetrating than at holding ground. deljuan shoots gaps. okoye shoots gaps. Cody shoots gaps.
We don't have a DT that plays the run. So I am not going to blame DL play but rather Bush or Rick Smith. More aggressive is not always better. I said this over and over last year when people wanted aggressive. You have to have the players for aggressive. Otherwise every D-coordinator in the NFL would be bringing pressure on every play. We don't have the players for it. Our LBs are too small to play unprotected. Demeco is great when protected by the DT and awful when the OL gets to him. Diles is small at SLB. And our Safeties are no force in the run game. And we did nothing at DT or at Safety this offseason.
We need to hope TJ and Cushing make a big impact, or we may be even worse on D than last year.
papabear
08-26-2009, 10:22 AM
If you are firing off you are not doing much diagnosing. So we had gaps and lanes.
I had this same argument last year. The problem with an across the board 1 gap system with your front seven is if one guy screws up it can lead to a huge play.
Most teams have at least one DT anchoring and eating blockers. We don't have that guy. Travis Johnson is far and away our best at it, and he is average (and missing). Okam, for all his size, is better at penetrating than at holding ground. deljuan shoots gaps. okoye shoots gaps. Cody shoots gaps.
Having that one space eating tackle can make the difference. It allows your other lineman to be more agressive. Okam is our best hope. He looked much improved...until the Saints game. I still think there's a chance he can provide a boost to the NT position.
More aggressive is not always better. I said this over and over last year when people wanted aggressive. You have to have the players for aggressive. Otherwise every D-coordinator in the NFL would be bringing pressure on every play.
I know people who talked about how we should use more agressice zone blitzing....and then bitched when we ran a zone blitz with Mario in coverage. The whole premise of the zone blitz is that it confuses the QB because he never knows who is rushing and who is going into coverage. If your going to do Zone blitz then Mario (really all of the lineman) have to drop into coverage from time to time or the element of surprise is gone. My point is that aggressive defense is one of those buzz words that people get caught up in without realizing the negatives.
Demeco is great when protected by the DT and awful when the OL gets to him.
Haven't noticed it as much this year yet...but I was really disappointed in Demeco's sloppy tackling last year. He missed a lot of tackles because he just lunged in the general direction of the ball carrier. Could have been a symptom of the injury I guess.
Diles is small at SLB.
That's what scares me. We supposedly want to do a lot of 4-3 under stuff where the SAM is up on the line and really needs to be a physical presence. Other than Cushing we don't have anyone who is built for this. If he misses a lot of time we'll have to adjust the defense...and that could keep us from building an identity on defense and executing the way we should.
We need to hope TJ and Cushing make a big impact, or we may be even worse on D than last year.
I agree...although I'm not sure we could be much worse. The key is stopping the run. If we can be decent against the run and force 3rd and longs on a more regular basis I actually feel pretty good about our ability to harass the QB.
Our defense needs to be aggressive to a degree...there's no point in not having Okoye(or most of our other DT's) shoot the gap. It's what he's best at. We need someone to step up at the other tackle who can really mix it up and clog the middle. Our only hope is TJ or Okam IMO....or another teams cast off.
I wouldn't mind crashing someone else's tailgate to meet up though if another ItB'er has one going (Mike - did you know someone?). I'm also in the middle of the last row of sec 137, usually an hour or so before kickoff even, if you want to stop by on the way to your seats (you still in the mezz above me?).
My tailgate activities are hit and miss. I have a few that I host, otherwise it is just a few of my friends who might be attending that particular game. Activity depends on how much my wife has been widowed the previous week. I am in section 349 always in my seat for the warm-ups and player introductions.
Joshua
08-26-2009, 12:18 PM
I don't think we are really disagreeing all that much. I don't think the DL played a great game, I just think they did a large part of what they were asked. I think they were in the backfield often.
As for diagnosing when a play is a run or a pass, this is the strength of a read and react DL scheme. If you are firing off you are not doing much diagnosing. So we had gaps and lanes. And we have no LBs or Safetys whose strength is filling a whole. This makes the DL look very bad. As for other teams doing it, the only team I know of who plays with 2 DTs penetrating is the colts. And they get gouged by the run, but they play with the lead most of the time so it is not a big deal. And of course they have Bob Sanders in the box and they lose when they don't.
Most teams have at least one DT anchoring and eating blockers. We don't have that guy. Travis Johnson is far and away our best at it, and he is average (and missing). Okam, for all his size, is better at penetrating than at holding ground. deljuan shoots gaps. okoye shoots gaps. Cody shoots gaps.
We don't have a DT that plays the run. So I am not going to blame DL play but rather Bush or Rick Smith. More aggressive is not always better. I said this over and over last year when people wanted aggressive. You have to have the players for aggressive. Otherwise every D-coordinator in the NFL would be bringing pressure on every play. We don't have the players for it. Our LBs are too small to play unprotected. Demeco is great when protected by the DT and awful when the OL gets to him. Diles is small at SLB. And our Safeties are no force in the run game. And we did nothing at DT or at Safety this offseason.
We need to hope TJ and Cushing make a big impact, or we may be even worse on D than last year.
Good points all.
I seem to recall hearing one of the coaches commenting one time that they didn't want the big, gap plugging DT, but wanted guys who could play sideline to sideline. Now, maybe this comment was just meant to inspire confidence in the guys we have but it always bugged me. For the life of me, I don't know why having a DT who can cover huge swaths of the field is a prerequisite. While I understand wanting athleticism, good teams have to stop the run and it almost always starts with a monster inside.
You're right about Demeco, or almost any other middle linebacker as well. Ray Lewis came way back to earth after the Ravens lost Siragusa and some of their other big guys up front. Then they drafted Ngata, and whaddayaknow, Ray Ray is all over the field again.
barrett
08-26-2009, 01:42 PM
Good points all.
I seem to recall hearing one of the coaches commenting one time that they didn't want the big, gap plugging DT, but wanted guys who could play sideline to sideline. Now, maybe this comment was just meant to inspire confidence in the guys we have but it always bugged me. For the life of me, I don't know why having a DT who can cover huge swaths of the field is a prerequisite. While I understand wanting athleticism, good teams have to stop the run and it almost always starts with a monster inside.
You're right about Demeco, or almost any other middle linebacker as well. Ray Lewis came way back to earth after the Ravens lost Siragusa and some of their other big guys up front. Then they drafted Ngata, and whaddayaknow, Ray Ray is all over the field again.
Yep. most athletic sideline-to-sideline types at MLB struggle without DL protection. demeco is normal in this. That is why if we are going to shoot gaps with all of our DL I think we have the wrong personnel. It wastes Demeco. Plus we have no safety presence in the box. I mean our FS's biggest impact against the run was when he threw a great block to spring Mike Bell on his TD run.
Hopefully Cushing makes a difference just by providing size at the point of attack. And even if he can't, we have a defense built to put pressure on the QB with the front 4. We just have to play with a lead so teams don't stuff it down our throat. This was the Colts blueprint to one superbowl, so maybe we can see the playoffs with it.
Bigtinylittle
08-26-2009, 02:19 PM
I don't think we are really disagreeing all that much. I don't think the DL played a great game, I just think they did a large part of what they were asked. I think they were in the backfield often.
As for diagnosing when a play is a run or a pass, this is the strength of a read and react DL scheme. If you are firing off you are not doing much diagnosing. So we had gaps and lanes. And we have no LBs or Safetys whose strength is filling a whole. This makes the DL look very bad. As for other teams doing it, the only team I know of who plays with 2 DTs penetrating is the colts. And they get gouged by the run, but they play with the lead most of the time so it is not a big deal. And of course they have Bob Sanders in the box and they lose when they don't.
Most teams have at least one DT anchoring and eating blockers. We don't have that guy. Travis Johnson is far and away our best at it, and he is average (and missing). Okam, for all his size, is better at penetrating than at holding ground. deljuan shoots gaps. okoye shoots gaps. Cody shoots gaps.
We don't have a DT that plays the run. So I am not going to blame DL play but rather Bush or Rick Smith. More aggressive is not always better. I said this over and over last year when people wanted aggressive. You have to have the players for aggressive. Otherwise every D-coordinator in the NFL would be bringing pressure on every play. We don't have the players for it. Our LBs are too small to play unprotected. Demeco is great when protected by the DT and awful when the OL gets to him. Diles is small at SLB. And our Safeties are no force in the run game. And we did nothing at DT or at Safety this offseason.
We need to hope TJ and Cushing make a big impact, or we may be even worse on D than last year.
I'm going to go ahead and nominate this for post of the week!
nunusguy
08-26-2009, 02:22 PM
Then they drafted Ngata, and whaddayaknow, Ray Ray is all over the field again.
I honestly dunno if Ngata has been to a pro bowl, but no matter he's a tremendous talent and a very valuable addition and member of the Ravens D.
Actually, into the 4th year now after the 2006 Draft I'd put him in with Mario and Cutler as the Big 3 coming out of that Draft.
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