Frank Bush ready to showcase his young players in the Saints game

[nero THE zero]

Spencer Tillman was a guest today on Tim Brando's show, and he was talking about the upcoming Saints game and how it would be much more of a challenge than playing against the Chiefs' offense.

Tillman specifically mentioned that his friend, Frank Bush, is chomping at the bit to showcase his young defensive stars and hopefully "give Brees some different, aggressive looks." So, if Tillman's right, we should be getting a bit of a glimpse of what our scheme is all about on Saturday.

I wish Cushing was playing, nonetheless it should be fun to see something other than 'vanilla defense' in a preseason game, especially against a prolific offense like the Saints'.

[painekiller]

nonetheless it should be fun to see something other than 'vanilla defense' in a preseason game,

Just watch the Jets preseason games. HC Ryan does not appear to be holding back anything on defense.

[NBT]

......And brings up the question of why Kubiak didn't let the new D show it's stuff in the Chiefs game? I am looking forward to seeing that more aggressive defense they keep talking about.

[painekiller]

......And brings up the question of why Kubiak didn't let the new D show it's stuff in the Chiefs game? I am looking forward to seeing that more aggressive defense they keep talking about.

Partly because each day you install a little more of the play book. The early part of camp is basics. Then once the foundation is laid, you add the walls...

They are just now getting to the more advanced stunts/blitzes and how the team is going to disguise them.

You get the idea.

[nero THE zero]

......And brings up the question of why Kubiak didn't let the new D show it's stuff in the Chiefs game? I am looking forward to seeing that more aggressive defense they keep talking about.

Who said he didn't?

[Joshua]

Partly because each day you install a little more of the play book. The early part of camp is basics. Then once the foundation is laid, you add the walls...

They are just now getting to the more advanced stunts/blitzes and how the team is going to disguise them.

You get the idea.

I guess my question would be why we only have the foundation put up but Rex Ryan already has the walls up. Didn't the Jets' D go through a major overhaul and a conversion from a 4-3 to a 3-4? I can't imagine that Frank Bush is changing our D more than Ryan is changing the Jets.

While its purely speculation, I suspect it has more to do with a coach's approach to the preseason. Some prefer to run vanilla offenses and defenses so that they don't give anything away. Others (it sounds like Ryan falls in this camp) want to see how their guys will execute what is essentially a regular season gameplan and think this experience trumps any secrets they may give away.

In my opinion, if your unit doesn't have a track record of success (like our D), I think the better approach is to have them essentially execute a regular season gameplan, with the associated blitzes and whatnot, to see how they do, even if you may be giving away some of your schemes. This sounds like what Ryan is doing in NY. He's decided any detriment of giving away his scheme is outweighed by getting his D to buy into his gameplan and develop his mentality. I agree with this approach. Considering how poorly our D has traditionally played, I think it's more important to getting them playing better and with confidence. Hopefully, we may start seeing some of this Saturday.

[painekiller]

I am guessing here, so take it for what it's worth. If you listened to Kubiak interviews, they have dumbed the defense down, and they did the basic install during OTA and again during minicamp. Why, so the young guys could get up to speed and contribute.

Then Kubiak said they where going to start all over again at training camp, again so the young guys could get where they are playing at full speed, not thinking near as much as in the past.

Look at our roster, especially the defense, we are one of the younger teams. And we are expecting a lot from our draft picks. Teams like the Steelers expect the draft picks to learn a year or two and play special teams.

[Joshua]

I am guessing here, so take it for what it's worth. If you listened to Kubiak interviews, they have dumbed the defense down, and they did the basic install during OTA and again during minicamp. Why, so the young guys could get up to speed and contribute.

Then Kubiak said they where going to start all over again at training camp, again so the young guys could get where they are playing at full speed, not thinking near as much as in the past.

Look at our roster, especially the defense, we are one of the younger teams. And we are expecting a lot from our draft picks. Teams like the Steelers expect the draft picks to learn a year or two and play special teams.

Could be. But when I look at the players who will be getting the majority of the snaps on D, there's no reason why we should have to dumb it down. And if there is, I'm concerned. Mario, Amobi, Deljuan, Travis, and Bullman have all been here several years. The only players who are totally new to the line and should be getting a lot of snaps are Smith (who should be able to get up to speed very quickly) and Barwin (who, by the team's own admission, is more of a 3rd down specialist this year and shouldn't have to worry about this stuff as much). As for the linebackers, really no one but Cushing is all that new and needs a lot of time to learn the system. I grant you that we are playing young corners, but I would think that corner is the one position that generally has the least assignment changes when we're blitzing or what-have-you, particularly if we're playing man coverage.

Finally, painekiller, please don't take this as me griping at you. I realize you're just relaying what you heard and I always appreciate your comments.

[NBT]

BUT......doesn't every team have the same problem with getting the rookies on defense up to speed, and yet both the Jets and the Titans looked in midseason form in their first exhibition game. I am sure it wasn't Frank Bush holding back, so I think it was just Kubiak being careful with that beatup secondary.

[cadams]

BUT......doesn't every team have the same problem with getting the rookies on defense up to speed, and yet both the Jets and the Titans looked in midseason form in their first exhibition game. I am sure it wasn't Frank Bush holding back, so I think it was just Kubiak being careful with that beatup secondary.

lots of teams look good in preseason and then flop in the regular season. i am not going to start worrying about this until the regular season starts.

[nero THE zero]

BUT......doesn't every team have the same problem with getting the rookies on defense up to speed, and yet both the Jets and the Titans looked in midseason form in their first exhibition game. I am sure it wasn't Frank Bush holding back, so I think it was just Kubiak being careful with that beatup secondary.

Let's remember a few things here.

1. No one has said that Kubiak has had anything to do with what the defense did or didn't do but you.

2. We haven't actually seen how the defense will play against the Saints, we have only gotten a 3rd hand account of how they're supposed to play.

3. Your assertion that the Jets or Titans' defenses looked stellar while our's didn't isn't held up by fact, considering we held the Cheifs to 3 points with our 1st and 2nd teams, even with Bowe running against our 2nd team.

The defense played very well in the Chiefs' game. There were some mismatches so far as when Haley played his starters as opposed to when Kubiak played his. Nonetheless, we held them to 3 points until the 3rd string came in and held them to 10 points overall.

There are a number of assumptions that could be made, assuming Tillman's account is accurate. Maybe we are keying up the defense to how we would in the regular season; a bit more conservative against inferior offenses and a bit more aggressive against top offenses. Maybe Bush wants to ease the defense into things. Maybe Bush wanted to hold back given the weather conditions. But, I think it'd be safe to hold back on those assumption until after we see how the preseason plays out, much less how the regular season defense plays versus the preseason defense. And, further, it's probably a good idea to hold back on the premature and baseless criticisms of Kubiak here.

[Keith]

I'm pretty sure the team is working on some stuff in practice that they aren't going to put on preseason game tape. I'd be very curious to hear from any of you going to the open workouts against the Saints this week to know what you find.

Since the Jets are presumably going to start a rookie QB in Week 1 in Sanchez, showing him less of the blitzes from preseason tape might not be a bad idea. That, plus a gameplan that keeps the TE away from our seams and stuffs eight in the box to neutralize Thomas Jones, Leon Washington and the running game ought to be the formula for success.

It won't upset me at all if we don't see this against the Saints on Saturday. Given the Vikings have a run-oriented offense (albeit one now helmed by Favre), I might be a bit more curious in how the Texans defense looks in that game.

[Joshua]

Let's remember a few things here.

1. No one has said that Kubiak has had anything to do with what the defense did or didn't do but you.

2. We haven't actually seen how the defense will play against the Saints, we have only gotten a 3rd hand account of how they're supposed to play.

3. Your assertion that the Jets or Titans' defenses looked stellar while our's didn't isn't held up by fact, considering we held the Cheifs to 3 points with our 1st and 2nd teams, even with Bowe running against our 2nd team.

The defense played very well in the Chiefs' game. There were some mismatches so far as when Haley played his starters as opposed to when Kubiak played his. Nonetheless, we held them to 3 points until the 3rd string came in and held them to 10 points overall.

There are a number of assumptions that could be made, assuming Tillman's account is accurate. Maybe we are keying up the defense to how we would in the regular season; a bit more conservative against inferior offenses and a bit more aggressive against top offenses. Maybe Bush wants to ease the defense into things. Maybe Bush wanted to hold back given the weather conditions. But, I think it'd be safe to hold back on those assumption until after we see how the preseason plays out, much less how the regular season defense plays versus the preseason defense. And, further, it's probably a good idea to hold back on the premature and baseless criticisms of Kubiak here.

I agree. It's only been one game. The only point I was trying to make was that, if I had my druthers, I would prefer that we maybe show a little more in preseason in exchange for beginning to build an identity on defense. I don't think the limited game film created offsets the need to get this defense playing more aggressively and getting used to the type of play Bush wants from them (assuming all of Bush's comments about wanting to be more aggressive are true).

On Saturday, I'm hoping to see a defense that is attacking, aggressive, blitzing, etc. If we are truly going to be that type of defense, let's start building the foundation in actual games, if only preseason games. I don't think it's just a switch you can flip, particularly since the majority of our guys have spent the last 3 years playing "bend, don't break." I was just throwing Rex Ryan out there because he is generally considered to be one of the best and most aggressive defensive masterminds in the league and it sounds like this is his approach as well. Would like to see us emulate it. Hopefully, we will.

[barrett]

And here I thought our defense played well against the Chiefs.

[nero THE zero]

And here I thought our defense played well against the Chiefs.

Well, it was raining and it was the *Chiefs,* but I think we did a good job as well. It was a bit misleading that Haley played a top 12 WR against our 2's; probably created an illusion of our 1's being better than they were. But, they did a good job nonetheless.

[Joshua]

And here I thought our defense played well against the Chiefs.

We did. I wasn't trying to complain about the KC game, but looking back at my posts, I see I didn't make that very clear. I was just trying to outline how I hope to see the remainder of the preseason unfolds.

[NBT]

Let's remember a few things here.

1. No one has said that Kubiak has had anything to do with what the defense did or didn't do but you.

2. We haven't actually seen how the defense will play against the Saints, we have only gotten a 3rd hand account of how they're supposed to play.

3. Your assertion that the Jets or Titans' defenses looked stellar while our's didn't isn't held up by fact, considering we held the Cheifs to 3 points with our 1st and 2nd teams, even with Bowe running against our 2nd team.

The defense played very well in the Chiefs' game. There were some mismatches so far as when Haley played his starters as opposed to when Kubiak played his. Nonetheless, we held them to 3 points until the 3rd string came in and held them to 10 points overall.

There are a number of assumptions that could be made, assuming Tillman's account is accurate. Maybe we are keying up the defense to how we would in the regular season; a bit more conservative against inferior offenses and a bit more aggressive against top offenses. Maybe Bush wants to ease the defense into things. Maybe Bush wanted to hold back given the weather conditions. But, I think it'd be safe to hold back on those assumption until after we see how the preseason plays out, much less how the regular season defense plays versus the preseason defense. And, further, it's probably a good idea to hold back on the premature and baseless criticisms of Kubiak here.

Sorry if I made you mad. Wasn't my intention. But I don't want us to start slow at the beginning of the season like we did last year.

[nero THE zero]

Sorry if I made you mad. Wasn't my intention. But I don't want us to start slow at the beginning of the season like we did last year.

You didn't make me mad. :)

[painekiller]

I think the whole plan this off season is to have 53 players all ready to contribute from day one of the season.

Mario and the 1st teamers should be fine with just the work in practice. They understand what they need to do.

Rookies on the other hand, usually have their heads spinning, and thus play slower. So when I see Quin and McCain hold their own on Bowe, I am happy. McCain has a great CB attitude IMO. And he does not back down from AJ. He is getting an advanced training session every practice.

I want to see Molden soon.

[nunusguy]

Since the Jets are presumably going to start a rookie QB in Week 1 in Sanchez, showing him less of the blitzes from preseason tape might not be a bad idea.
See that's my thought. PK mentioned earlier in this thread that Ryan let the dogs loose in the Jets very first preseason game, but everybody already knows the book on Ryan from his years in Baltimore: they know he's going to throw eveything including the kichen sink at the opposing QB.
But the season opener in Reliant will be Frank Bushs coming out party as a NFL DC, so why spoil the fun and more importantly reveal all the secrets in a meaningless preseason game ? Instead why not keep the Jets and their rookie QB guessing as much as possible ?

[papabear]

I think there might be a perception problem when we hear "more aggressive". I think some people expect to see the LB's and Safeties blitzing like crazy, with 6 or 7 guys getting being sent a lot of the time....and while I would like to see more blitzing myself there's other more subtle ways to make the defense more aggressive. Like asking the D-line to fire off the ball and penetrate instead of reading the play first. That alone can make a huge difference, especially with our personnel up front. I also saw the safeties coming into the box more. It's not a blitz, but it's a little thing that could help against the run....which was at least as much of our problem last year as the pass. You can't bring pressure on third and long if your giving up 6 yards on the ground on first down.

We have always played pretty basic in the preseason under Kubiak. Gameplans can change drastically from week to week anyway in the NFL. Even if we did open up the playbook against the Saints, we could have a different gameplan vs. the Jets in week 1.

[nero THE zero]

See that's my thought. PK mentioned earlier in this thread that Ryan let the dogs loose in the Jets very first preseason game, but everybody already knows the book on Ryan from his years in Baltimore: they know he's going to throw eveything including the kichen sink at the opposing QB.
But the season opener in Reliant will be Frank Bushs coming out party as a NFL DC, so why spoil the fun and more importantly reveal all the secrets in a meaningless preseason game ? Instead why not keep the Jets and their rookie QB guessing as much as possible ?

I understand that train of thought. But, you're working under the assumption that the gameplan for the Jets is the same as the gameplan for the Cheifs/Saints/Vikings/Bucs. It may or may not be. Maybe we'll do the whole vanilla defense preseason thing. Or, maybe we'll do different things against a Saints-type offense than we would against a Jets-type offense.

Part of being an effective defense is being good at what you do, even when the other team knows you're going to do it; our offense is a shining example of this. We shouldn't be worried that a rookie QB has tape on us when the 15 teams proceeding him will have tape on us. We just have to be good at what we do, even when the other teams knows we're doing it.

[painekiller]

I think there might be a perception problem when we hear "more aggressive".

I think you have defined it correctly. I do not think we are going to be a blitz happy team, but our front four is not going to be asked to read and react, they are gong to fire out and disrupt.

Finally a style of play that fits the personnel. Imagine that ?

[papabear]

Finally a style of play that fits the personnel. Imagine that ?

what crazy person thought of that silliness.