Charles Spencer Done?

[KJ3]

i think so. i know the chron.com isn't the mecca of sports reporting but the picture painted here isn't exactly bright and shining. i think spencer may be in his last days as a texan, probably as an NFL player too...

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5824170.html

Ideally, the Texans would have him participate in practice Monday and see how the knee reacts. That way, they could have some sort of idea if his knee can handle training camp. At the same time, the Texans don't want to risk hurting Spencer's knee just as it's getting stronger.
"Well, I think it's still a delicate situation," Kubiak said. "We're trying right now, in all honesty, to figure out the day to really push him hard and see how he responds to that push. We have done a little bit more each day, but we haven't put him in a — I don't want to use the word combative — but a competitive situation where he could be around some piles, so we hope to pick that day here rather quickly and then we'll see how he comes out of it."

[papabear]

It doesn't sound good, but as patient as the Texans have been I can't see them calling it quits with Spencer until they at least have a chance to test him in some live action settings....not when he's this close relatively speaking.

On the other hand, they might just be tired of waiting. I would like to see get a chance to try it on the field though. Even if it's just practice.

[Keith]

They're giving Spencer six more weeks to see how much farther he'll progress. I think Kubiak is being a softie here in giving Spencer every opportunity he can given how hard Spencer has worked to get back, but the reality is over-bearing, sadly.

[KJ3]

that's the thing though papabear....he isn't ready for contact still. i hoped as well as anybody that he would make it back in any fashion but i don't want to see them drag it out and embarass everybody.

keith, do you have a link for that?

[Xetuoh1836]

that's the thing though papabear....he isn't ready for contact still. i hoped as well as anybody that he would make it back in any fashion but i don't want to see them drag it out and embarass everybody.

keith, do you have a link for that?

Read down to Kubes quotes:

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4366

[kravix]

If I had to point to one flaw in Kubiak as a coach it would be his loyalty to his guys. I understand that Spencer was looking to be and could still be a great player, but at some point Kubiak needs to cut him loose.

I could maybe see them sending him back to the IR this year, but to me that is 3 is years he hasnt played football. That is a long time to be out of the trenches and it could take him another 1-2 years to get back to where he was his rookie year. A 4-5 year project is a long time.

[KJ3]

thanks X, here are some interesting quotes from the link as well:

(on DT Amobi Okoye making progress) “He’s grown up. He’s a much more mature kid. He’s an effort player, down in and down out, right now which is something I wouldn’t say he was last year so that’s something he has corrected. But he’s got a lot more maturity about him as we move forward. He’s a better player.”

(on the progress of the rookies) “It’s amazing. You look at (Antwaun) Molden. You look at (Xavier) Adibi. The young tackle, Duane (Brown). The progress they have made, they’ve made it because they’ve gotten reps. It’s almost like their first training camp before they’ve ever been to one in a lot of ways. We had some great work with them mentally. I would say those kids are – I don’t want to say any further ahead than some of the ones we have had in the past, but they are every bit as close to them. Hopefully, they’ll help our team like our young guys have had in the past.”


if molden, adibi, and brown come in and contribute like our "young guys from the past" that would be one amazing lift to the team. and if amobi is making the type of progress he keeps getting hyped up to making our d'line is going to be fierce!

kravix-who else has kubiak given this much of a chance to? personally i don't see anything wrong with a little loyalty ESPECIALLY from a head coach. i think it gives our team a little more in the identity department than most other teams. loyalty can be overdone obviously, but i think we are safe with kubiak.

on spencer specifically i think kubiak may still see what was so overwhelmingly awesome or else it would be over already. that or kubiak feels bad for ruining what was about to be a dominate career so he's giving him a year or two more of pay as a "i'm sorry the best runningback i could get a hold of was ron dayne and he tomahawked your leg" kind of under the table deal. EDIT: i still think big spence is done but there are all types of careers in the NFL that don't include being on the field.

[NBT]

I think we all like and root for Spencer. The only thing I can see holding him back is his 343 lbs. of weight. If he could get it down to 318 or so, I think it would lessen the pressure on that knee. But that's just me.

[KJ3]

I think we all like and root for Spencer. The only thing I can see holding him back is his 343 lbs. of weight. If he could get it down to 318 or so, I think it would lessen the pressure on that knee. But that's just me.

who are you to point the finger at gravity?!?! hahahaha :D

i can't help but think 25 pounds lost would make it easier to move around too. hard to lose weight in his situation though, it's not like he can just train really hard...

[NBT]

Still, it just seems to me that Spencer is getting the fickle finger. first he got a freak injury to that knee, then it has taken 2 plus years for the cartilege (which is the problem, not the muscle) to grow back, now the Texans are going full bore on the ZBS, which puts emphasis on quickness, not necessarily bull strength. All of which makes Spencer the odd man out. Shame!

[KJ3]

Still, it just seems to me that Spencer is getting the fickle finger. first he got a freak injury to that knee, then it has taken 2 plus years for the cartilege (which is the problem, not the muscle) to grow back, now the Texans are going full bore on the ZBS, which puts emphasis on quickness, not necessarily bull strength. All of which makes Spencer the odd man out. Shame!

hell with 25 pounds then, try 50. 50 in 2 years (or 3 ;)) isn't out of the realm of possibility. i know certain frames grow into certain weight ranges but i think the closer he gets to 300 the better it will suit him on multiple fronts.

quick ZBS question- position-wise, do tackles need to be the ones who can book it? or is it guards? or centers? or all, or sides, or combo? i assume that centers don't really need quite the mobility that the rest of the line needs due to placement in the line and the farther from center the more mobility is necessary...is that right or am i off?

if kubiak is willing to give spencer another year then so am i. he never gave spencer a prediction any less gleaming than "will be a tackle in this league for many years" and if he still sees that, even if he has to come back as a guard or center or goalline fullback :D then it will be worth it. but i'm not the one signing his check so.....

[Bigtinylittle]

The way I see it, the only downside to putting Spencer on IR instead of cutting him is having to pay his salary, which is 445,000 for this year. Besides, if we cut him, I think we would have to give him an injury settlement anyway. I'm not sure if the settlement counts against the cap, but if it does, then if we cut him we probably aren't saving anything or very little.
I started suspecting a while back that Spencer knows he isn't going to be able to come back and is just stretching things out to max his dollars. Even if he is, though, I really don't have a problem with that. With all the money being thrown around in the league to guys who never have worked hard and guys who have never shown anything on the field, I'm not going to begrudge the relatively small amount Spencer will cost this year if he goes to IR. It's not going to make or break us.

All that being said, I hope I am very wrong and he makes it back to the form he showed two years ago.

[papabear]

quick ZBS question- position-wise, do tackles need to be the ones who can book it? or is it guards? or centers? or all, or sides, or combo? i assume that centers don't really need quite the mobility that the rest of the line needs due to placement in the line and the farther from center the more mobility is necessary...is that right or am i off?




MY opinion is that they all need to be able to move together. If one lineman is moving much quicker than the guy next to him the whole zone concept breaks down.

Maybe the Tackles need to be an extra step quicker for the outside zone runs, but really I always understood that it was about moving together in unison.

[KJ3]

MY opinion is that they all need to be able to move together. If one lineman is moving much quicker than the guy next to him the whole zone concept breaks down.

Maybe the Tackles need to be an extra step quicker for the outside zone runs, but really I always understood that it was about moving together in unison.

that's kind of what i was thinking, i'll bet the tackles are just a bit quicker than the guards. maybe big spence can regain enough speed/lose enough weight to play guard or even center. i know i'd be less worried about haynesworth with spencer in his way, although i'd be as far away from that sumo match as i possibly could be...

[NBT]

Yes BUT.......the smaller linemen are usually quicker off the ball. It takes the behemoths like Spencer just a shade more time to get that bulk moving, so it is going to be harder to be "in unison". Of course Spencer had unusual quickness for a big man before he was hurt. The problem is going to be getting that quickness back, even if he does get the weight down. I hope for his sake he can get it done, but you have to have your doubts.

[painekiller]

that's kind of what i was thinking, i'll bet the tackles are just a bit quicker than the guards. maybe big spence can regain enough speed/lose enough weight to play guard or even center. i know i'd be less worried about haynesworth with spencer in his way, although i'd be as far away from that sumo match as i possibly could be...

In my understanding of the scheme (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvtJHq_0YvA&feature=related), the guards and centers need to be the quickest in regard to what most teams look for. The tackles are quicker then the average OT in the league, but not as quick as the guards need to be. I have linked to a great video of the blocking scheme.

The Center and guards are expected to get out in front of the Lbs at the 2nd level.

[KJ3]

Yes BUT.......the smaller linemen are usually quicker off the ball. It takes the behemoths like Spencer just a shade more time to get that bulk moving, so it is going to be harder to be "in unison". Of course Spencer had unusual quickness for a big man before he was hurt. The problem is going to be getting that quickness back, even if he does get the weight down. I hope for his sake he can get it done, but you have to have your doubts. hmmm, in painekiller's video (thanks PK) it does explain the center/guards as the quicker lineman (or at least gives that impression). maybe 50 pounds lost would counter the injury but if anything was to be learned from that video it's that he would most likely come back as a tackle for the ZBS. i wonder why they had him taking reps at guard?

In my understanding of the scheme (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvtJHq_0YvA&feature=related), the guards and centers need to be the quickest in regard to what most teams look for. The tackles are quicker then the average OT in the league, but not as quick as the guards need to be. I have linked to a great video of the blocking scheme.

The Center and guards are expected to get out in front of the Lbs at the 2nd level.
good video, seen it before but a great reference and thanks again!

i still want to see who ends up as the starting RG. brown obviously starts as the 1st round pick, pitts obviously starts as the elder, myers obviously starts as the only person to run the scheme in a game, and winston obviously starts because he was our best lineman last year. who will it be?!?!

[NBT]

The main board is now reporting that Charles Spencer has been released. What happened to the extra 6 weeks? Anyway Spencer now has a chance to catch on with another team, or he could continue to rehab the knee and rejoin the team when and IF it gets better. Good Luck and God Blesss ya Charles, you've really had a bad time of it!

[painekiller]

NBT do you have a link? I am having a hard time finding this.

I feel really bad for Spencer he's worked extremely hard against tough odds and then they change the scheme on him.

Hopefully he gets a nice settlement and lands on another squad. Might be time to try coaching.

[papabear]

NBT do you have a link? I am having a hard time finding this.

.

I haven't seen it anywhere yet either? Maybe somebody jumped the gun and uploaded the press release too early, and then quickly pulled it back down?

I wouldn't be surprised, but with nothing going on right now....why not wait a few weeks and see where he stands? Of course I don't think they would release him if there was any hope left....

[Bigtinylittle]

I haven't seen anything either. Chron doesn't have it and I think they would. Rotoworld doesn't have it either. Maybe he wasn't released,maybe he's just on double-secret probation.:)

I can't help but wonder if this is all just confusion started by that Chronicle blogger last week. The one who took over for Texan's Chick. The guy is a real tool. Always claiming to have inside knowledge about things when he is just guessing or getting stuff of the internet. Like Sly used to do. Hey, maybe he IS Sly. LOL.

[coloradodude]

Forget Charles "ittybitty" Spencer for a minute...

What the heck happened? I'm all excited about the upcoming 2008 NFL Draft and just like in 2004 or 2005, I can't find the page! Did I get banned? What should I do? Do I go to the other board where the posters complain about font size, etc? Am I in hell? Should I just give in and become friggin broncos fan? DO i just start getting into basketball?

And the crying began...full blown man tears.

Yet I did not give up nor give in. Persevere and you shall be rewarded I told myself! And here we are...just like a period of time with no woman in your life and you get back in THAT saddle again.

Somebody tell Ric if he's ever in Colorado and needs a good azz kickin to give me a call.

[Arky]

..............
I can't help but wonder if this is all just confusion started by that Chronicle blogger last week. The one who took over for Texan's Chick. The guy is a real tool. Always claiming to have inside knowledge about things when he is just guessing or getting stuff of the internet. Like Sly used to do. Hey, maybe he IS Sly. LOL.

Eheh, man, I can't read that blog any more. Less commenting from the blog host would be a major improvement... i.e., just post the topic du jour and get out of the way.....


Welcome coloradodude....

[Keith]

Welcome coloradodude....

Yes, welcome (back) coloradodude. Glad you finally made it here. We had a good time posting threads on the draft. :p

Not everyone has found us here yet, but soon I hope.

[Xetuoh1836]

Welcome back Coloradodude! This time, keep your neighbor, Sly, back at the gate! [j/k]:D

[papabear]

I can't help but wonder if this is all just confusion started by that Chronicle blogger last week.

That's the only place I can find anything on it....and it's just one line that says they are close to releasing him.

http://blogs.chron.com/fanblogtexans/2008/06/texans_sign_veteran_lb_rosevel_1.html

It wouldn't surprise me if he does get cut, but I think the Texans are going to wait until they have to make the cuts to get to 80 in camp....we have been waiting for two years? already. Why not wait a few more weeks.

If he does get cut, maybe Maddox can put in a good word for him and hook him up with a job delivering furniture for a year or two before he makes his big comeback.

[Mike]

That is just a shame. A third round pick who was the LT of the future and so much promise cut short by injury. In some ways, I can understand why NFL players try to get those huge signing bonuses, one play and you could be all done. Of course, if someone gave me 10 or 15M, I could live comfortably the rest of my life.

[NBT]

Well shoot, hold on, I couldn't find a link either. In Navy parlance, I guess I would have to say "Belay that!" I sure don't want to pile anymore badluck on Spencer. He has certainly had enough of it already. I will keep looking, but I am dreadfully sorry for having posted any misinformation.

[TexicanMexican]

As hard as I've rooted for him to come back I don't see the Texans keeping Spencer much longer. It pains me to see a promising career cut short by some freak injury. Second game of his career and done. Harsh but sometimes life does that. I hope nothing but the best for him.

[coloradodude]

The guys makes $500 more than Winston. From a business POV, and only from a business pov, he needs to show that he's on track to produce. Otherwise, you make room on the roster.

Sorry to sound so cold.

[jppaul]

As hard as I've rooted for him to come back I don't see the Texans keeping Spencer much longer. It pains me to see a promising career cut short by some freak injury. Second game of his career and done. Harsh but sometimes life does that. I hope nothing but the best for him.

Freak injury? He had fat ass Ron Dayne kick his leg while running at full speed, which I estimate as being equivalent to a fat ass grazing elephant just kicking your leg from the side.

God, not only did Dayne not do anything with his career but he also ruined a promising LTs career.

[KJ3]

Freak injury? He had fat ass Ron Dayne kick his leg while running at full speed, which I estimate as being equivalent to a fat ass grazing elephant just kicking your leg from the side.
wouldn't that also be a freak injury?

God, not only did Dayne not do anything with his career but he also ruined a promising LTs career.
dayne's career is pretty impressive at points and pretty low at others. but to say he did nothing........................................... .

[Bigtinylittle]

I really have trouble understanding all the Dayne hating I hear these days. Dayne is what he is, and we ought to be grateful we had him the last couple of years, because most of that time he was the best back we could put on the field. Sure, it would have been great if we could have put an all pro out there, but guess what? Nobody has an all pro at every position and nobody ever will.
We had the misfortune to lose a solid runner, DD, who went out with a career ending injury. Because he was "playing games" with the front office in order to get a bit more money before he retired, he put the team in a terrific bind. Dayne was about the best we could expect on such short notice. He definately has his limitations, but in certain situations he can actually be effective. Certainly more so than Lundy, Gado, Echiwhatever, etc.
The team could have drafted a first day pick last year and gotten somebody better, but we took Okoye and Jones. Jones was a definate need because we couldn't count on Mathis, and because we needed speed on the other side of Andre Johnson. Okoye was a definate need because our pass rush was about the worst in the league. So we didn't draft a running back. Too Bad.
We tried to fill the need by getting Green and unfortunately, he got a deep knee bruise after two pretty effective games, both of which we won. A deep knee bruise is a serious injury and can happen to anyone at any time, so don't try to put it off on Green's age. It had NOTHING to do with his age. Green was out, so we had to go with Dayne again. Don't hate Dayne for that. He was just a second stringer doing the best he could.
We may struggle again this year at running back because Green is 31 years old, and because for all we know, Brown may not be completely healthy and is hiding it from the team. It happens all the time. It's a chance the team has to take from time to time.
Taylor may not be recovered completely from his injury. If he is, I think he could be a solid runner. Slaton may surprise us, though I still have trouble believing he will be effective between the tackles. I just don't think he's the type that breaks tackles. I really don't expect much from Walker. I hope he surprises me. Maybe he's perfect for the new Gibbs attack.
And as far as hating Dayne for running over a lineman, I'm not even going to comment on that. It's not worth it.

[Bigtinylittle]

I really have trouble understanding all the Dayne hating I hear these days. Dayne is what he is, and we ought to be grateful we had him the last couple of years, because most of that time he was the best back we could put on the field. Sure, it would have been great if we could have put an all pro out there, but guess what? Nobody has an all pro at every position and nobody ever will.
We had the misfortune to lose a solid runner, DD, who went out with a career ending injury. Because he was "playing games" with the front office in order to get a bit more money before he retired, he put the team in a terrific bind. Dayne was about the best we could expect on such short notice. He definately has his limitations, but in certain situations he can actually be effective. Certainly more so than Lundy, Gado, Echiwhatever, etc.
The team could have drafted a first day pick last year and gotten somebody better, but we took Okoye and Jones. Jones was a definate need because we couldn't count on Mathis, and because we needed speed on the other side of Andre Johnson. Okoye was a definate need because our pass rush was about the worst in the league. So we didn't draft a running back. Too Bad.
We tried to fill the need by getting Green and unfortunately, he got a deep knee bruise after two pretty effective games, both of which we won. A deep knee bruise is a serious injury and can happen to anyone at any time, so don't try to put it off on Green's age. It had NOTHING to do with his age. Green was out, so we had to go with Dayne again. Don't hate Dayne for that. He was just a second stringer doing the best he could.
We may struggle again this year at running back because Green is 31 years old, and because for all we know, Brown may not be completely healthy and is hiding it from the team. It happens all the time. It's a chance the team has to take from time to time.
Taylor may not be recovered completely from his injury. If he is, I think he could be a solid runner. Slaton may surprise us, though I still have trouble believing he will be effective between the tackles. I just don't think he's the type that breaks tackles. I really don't expect much from Walker. I hope he surprises me. Maybe he's perfect for the new Gibbs attack.
And as far as hating Dayne for running over a lineman, I'm not even going to comment on that. It's not worth it.