[KTRK-TV] Texans Interested in DE Antonio Smith

[Keith]

I didn't make it home in time to catch this on the live broadcast, but apparently channel 13 had another story that the Texans were looking at signing DE Antonio Smith as the ying to Mario's yang (wait, that didn't come out right...).

Anyone else see this? As before withe Jacoby Jones news, the broadcast will re-air at 1:05am CT tonight.

[bckey]

If true I'm sure the Texans would save mucho dollars signing Antonio Smith over Julius Peppers.

[nunusguy]

2005 Arizona Cardinals 16 0 3 2.5 0 0 0 0 0 0
2006 Arizona Cardinals 15 10 2.5 1.5 0 2 0 0 0 0
2007 Arizona Cardinals 37 7 5.5 5 1 3 0 0 0 0
2008 Arizona Cardinals 31 10 3.5 4.5 2 3 0 0 0 0
Totals: 99 27 14.5 13.5 3 8 0 0 0 0
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/players/6894/
*************************
14.5 sacks total over 4 years ? And a stumpy 6'4" & 285 lbs. 28 years old this Fall. This is our big FA splash ? Not sexy enough !
I wanta see Kollar draft one of those tweener whippets who checks in at 'bout 245-255 on a rangy 6'4" - 6'5" chassy and who blurs when he comes off of the edge. You know, somebody that reminds you of Jevon Kearse when he first came into the league.
He's already done it with Schobel in Buffalo, I say give him the reins on that #15 this Draft like the Texans did with Gibbs last year on a OT in the first round.

[Keith]

Okay, I watched this on the DVR finally. Bob Allen did say "I'm hearing the one of the Texans free agency targets will be Arizona Cardinals defensive end Antonio Smith. ..."

And yeah, getting him would definitely seem to be mutually exclusive with getting Julius Peppers.

[popanot]

14.5 sacks total over 4 years ? And a stumpy 6'4" & 285 lbs. 28 years old this Fall.Sounds a lot like replacing Anthony Weaver -with- Anthony Weaver (albeit, potentially cheaper).

[papabear]

Sounds a lot like replacing Anthony Weaver -with- Anthony Weaver (albeit, potentially cheaper).

If this happens I would think the Texans would look at a speed rusher in the draft, but probably not until the later rounds.

[nunusguy]

Sounds a lot like replacing Anthony Weaver -with- Anthony Weaver (albeit, potentially cheaper).

Or somebody we still have on our roster who's cheaper yet - Tim Bulman.

[nero THE zero]

From checking out the Cardinals board it seems that Smith was a 5th round project that was drafted on raw potential. Over the past couple of seasons he has finally begun to realize that potential, recording 5.5 sacks in '07 and 3.5 in '08. He also came on very strong at the end of the season and in the playoffs. He is a high character, high motor guy, and has a working relationship with Frank Bush.

The match makes a lot of sense, so I wouldn't be surprised (or upset) to see him end up here. He's no Julius Peppers, but I wouldn't mind being the beneficiary of Arizona's developmental work so long as we don't have to pay too much for it.

[gunn]

but I wouldn't mind being the beneficiary of Arizona's developmental work so long as we don't have to pay too much for it.

I don't know how great that is......

[nero THE zero]

I don't know how great that is......
Why not?

You're getting a "project" post-project. It's like us taking Amobi Okoye in the draft; spending years developing his strength, conditioning, and technique; and then losing him to another team once his rookie contract expires and his production starts matching his potential.

That's not necessarily a bad thing (for the signing team), depending on the contract numbers.

[gunn]

Why not?

You're getting a "project" post-project. It's like us taking Amobi Okoye in the draft, spending years developing his strength, conditioning, and technique and then losing him to another team once his rookie contract expires and his production starts matching his potential.

That's not necessarily a bad thing, depending on the contract numbers.

Because its the Cardinals..... I'm more or less making a joke about it, but even still, its the CARDINALS!!! I wouldn't trust any sort of "development" that they have made with a player. Players are so system oriented now as well but I'd rather go after Chris Canty if they were looking to go that route. Similar style of player that is a strongside end that could kick inside on 3rd down.

[Arky]

...... recording 5.5 sacks in '07 and 3.5 in '08......

An avg. of 4.5 per year. That's about 4.5 more than we had been getting from that position. I realize sacks aren't the end-all of DE play but they are a pretty good barometer and sounds like the guy is coming into his prime....

If they pick him up, I'd say they'll go LB in the first round...

[nunusguy]

An avg. of 4.5 per year. That's about 4.5 more than we had been getting from that position. I realize sacks aren't the end-all of DE play but they are a pretty good barometer.....

If they pick him up, I'd say they'll go LB in the first round...
Sacks is what we need Arky. That's what our defense is missing most of all - sacks, or pressure on the QB as it were.
Jason Babin is a free agent this year, lets just get him back here if this joker is the best we can do. I dunno that Babin couldn't average 3-4 sacks a game
in pass situations ?

[Roy P]

He also came on very strong at the end of the season and in the playoffs. He is a high character, high motor guy, and has a working relationship with Frank Bush.

The match makes a lot of sense, so I wouldn't be surprised (or upset) to see him end up here.

On the NFL Network, they had a list of potential FAs on the side of the screen last night. When I saw Antonio's name up there, I came to this conclusion.

1. Plays at a position of need.
2. Playoff experience last season.
3. Worked with Bush in Arizona.
4. Cheaper tier FA potentially.
5. LDE who keeps Mario at RDE.

Sounds like a legit speculation. It would keep the team from feeling forced to draft a DE like Robert Ayers in the 1st round. Perhaps the team is projecting guys like Everette Brown and Brian Orakpo won't be available at #15. Maybe Michael Johnson is too likely to be a bust to take that highly and Maybin is too small to play DE on every down. Signing FAs to address needs is what allows a GM to draft the BPA - which is very important in the 1st round.

[papabear]

Signing FAs to address needs is what allows a GM to draft the BPA - which is very important in the 1st round.

That's the key, Super Bowl appearances tend to drive prices up, but assuming his cap number is lower than Weaver's would have been this year (possible) then they can still go after a DE in the draft. It would probably be less likely that it would be early, but they could be in just as good a position to take one in the first as they were before. It would all depend on the contract.The big names get the pub, but FA's should let you fill your holes before the draft so you don't have to reach, unless you want to, on draft day.

Pancakes could very well be right (and it pains me to say it). The team might not be looking for that light speed rushing RDE like we are....at least not early on.

[mussop]

On the NFL Network, they had a list of potential FAs on the side of the screen last night. When I saw Antonio's name up there, I came to this conclusion.

1. Plays at a position of need.
2. Playoff experience last season.
3. Worked with Bush in Arizona.
4. Cheaper tier FA potentially.
5. LDE who keeps Mario at RDE.

Sounds like a legit speculation. It would keep the team from feeling forced to draft a DE like Robert Ayers in the 1st round. Perhaps the team is projecting guys like Everette Brown and Brian Orakpo won't be available at #15. Maybe Michael Johnson is too likely to be a bust to take that highly and Maybin is too small to play DE on every down. Signing FAs to address needs is what allows a GM to draft the BPA - which is very important in the 1st round.

OR maybe signing a 2 down DE like Antonio opens the door for us to draft a smaller speedy pass rush specialist like Maybin.

[Roy P]

OR maybe signing a 2 down DE like Antonio opens the door for us to draft a smaller speedy pass rush specialist like Maybin.

When I said, "Maybin is too small to play DE on every down" that was given as a reason to sign Antonio. So, I guess you are agreeing with me.

[mussop]

When I said, "Maybin is too small to play DE on every down" that was given as a reason to sign Antonio. So, I guess you are agreeing with me.

Ok after rereading youre post I see what you are saying. Sorry and yes I agree with you. :D

[Roy P]

When I said, "Maybin is too small to play DE on every down" that was given as a reason to sign Antonio. So, I guess you are agreeing with me.

In one mock that I did, I drafted Sidbury to be my rush specialist and then drafted Derek Walker to be my 2 down DE later in the draft.

[Keith]

hmmm... among the teams interested in Smith - the Bucs and Eagles, both of which have more cap room than the Texans.

Anyone want to keep the Peppers fantasy alive, think of this... the Texans only went whole hog in a trade for Matt Schaub after other QB options seemed to fall through (Jake Plummer, etc.). That trade happened like around March 22, 2007.

With Anthony Weaver gone, the team needs a LDE (again, assuming they don't want to play Mario at the position). I'd be interesting in hearing Plan B if Smith isn't signed.

Oh, and anyone thinking Smith will come at some bargain will be sadly mistaken I think.

[Keith]

Cardinals defensive end Antonio Smith should be one of the hottest players in free agency. I've heard that numerous teams are interested, including the Texans, Giants and Seahawks. The Cardinals are hoping that Smith gives them a chance to match an offer, but we all know how those things go.

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/KentSomers/47207

PFT.com's site is blown, but he apparently listed interested teams as well:
Per a league source, the Buccaneers, Giants, Eagles, Texans, and Falcons have invited defensive end Antonio Smith for a visit.

Smith is in the process of coming up with a priority list of the teams, and then will finalizing arrangements for visits.


http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/02/27/antonio-smith-getting-interest/

[popanot]

They just reported on 610 that Smith was on his way to Houston to visit the Texans.

[dadmg]

They just reported on 610 that Smith was on his way to Houston to visit the Texans.

Also reported by Schefter.

I'm of mixed emotion on Smith. He is somewhat similar to a free agent I advocated for a few years back - Anthony Weaver. If our main concern is increasing pressure on the QB, I'm not sure if this (potential) signing accomplishes our goal. I guess I'll reserve judgment until I see if we get him and for how much. Personally, I thought it was much more important for the Cardinals to retain him (he fits nicely in the hybrid schemes they employed last year, although Pendergast is now gone) than for us to pick him up.

[Keith]

chron:

Smith, 27, will meet with the Texans on Saturday at Reliant Stadium. He's being pursued by the New York Giants and Tampa Bay, among other teams.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6284444.html

[nunusguy]

They just reported on 610 that Smith was on his way to Houston to visit the Texans.

He is not gonna be cheap after the announcement of Hayesworths contract with the 'Skins. Everybodys market value but especially DLineman was elevated by that blockbuster deal.

[Keith]

Yessssssss! FOX-TV's Mark Berman had the classic baggage claim interview today. There ought to be some kind of drinking game based on his baggage claim interviews.

Smith: "I think this style of defense suits me. I've always liked the Texans. It's close to home. I'm just excited to see about the team, the defense, some of the players, and talk to the coaches, just to see if it's the perfect fit.

"Once I heard the Houston Texans were interested, I kinda smiled at that opportunity (to play opposite Mario Williams). I watched him develop. I watched him grow. so it would be great to play beside someone like that, have somebody out there who could get to the quarterback just as good as you can."

Berman said this was Smith's first visit, has no real timeline, and has not ruled out a return to the Cardinals.

[superbowlbound]

"Once I heard the Houston Texans were interested, I kinda smiled at that opportunity (to play opposite Mario Williams). I watched him develop. I watched him grow. so it would be great to play beside someone like that, have somebody out there who could get to the quarterback just as good as you can."

Berman said this was Smith's first visit, has no real timeline, and has not ruled out a return to the Cardinals.


"Just as good as you can"?!? the guy's got 14.5 CAREER sacks. I'm pretty sure mario has more than twice that in a little more than half the time. I guess unneccesary swagger is a good thing, right?

[painekiller]

This from Pete Prisco of CBSSports ,

Buyer beware: Proceed with caution on these free agents (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/11430528/rss)

Antonio Smith, DE, Arizona Cardinals

NFL teams are always searching for pass rushers, usually overpaying to get them. Smith is about to be overpaid.

He's the right age at 27, but in five seasons he has 14½ sacks. Does that warrant a mega-deal?

I think not.

But he's getting one. Why? Because many people paid attention to how he played in the playoffs when he had two sacks in four games.

One has to wonder if that was a money push. And where was it the rest of his career?

There is some thinking that Smith turns it on in big games but doesn't play hard all the time.

I like him as a player. I just don't love him.

Somebody does, which is why he will be overpaid.

[edo783]

I guess the question is...what is over paid money? What would a fair contract look like? At 27 years old I think a 5 year contract is possible (I would prefer shorter, But..) with about 10-15 mill guaranteed and a total of 35 mill sounds about right and more IMO would probably be over paying. That's just off the top of my head and I haven't researched how that fits with what other mid/middle upper level DEs are getting.

[Texan from KC]

This from Pete Prisco of CBSSports ,

Buyer beware: Proceed with caution on these free agents (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/11430528/rss)

Actually, I think that's Judge and not Prisco (although it's admittedly very confusing).

Prisco has him ranked as the #4 FA overall after Haynesworth, Jason Brown and Chris Canty. He still thinks he'll be overpaid though.

To 50 Free Agents (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/11425323)

[painekiller]

Actually, I think that's Judge and not Prisco (although it's admittedly very confusing).

Prisco has him ranked as the #4 FA overall after Haynesworth, Jason Brown and Chris Canty. He still thinks he'll be overpaid though.

To 50 Free Agents (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/11425323)


No I think it's Prisco article, they do have link to Judges article just above this one.

[painekiller]

I guess the question is...what is over paid money? What would a fair contract look like? At 27 years old I think a 5 year contract is possible (I would prefer shorter, But..) with about 10-15 mill guaranteed and a total of 35 mill sounds about right and more IMO would probably be over paying. That's just off the top of my head and I haven't researched how that fits with what other mid/middle upper level DEs are getting.

I would think that is to much money for 3 sacks per year. Sorry he is a slight upgrade to Weaver to me right now.

[dadmg]

I would think that is to much money for 3 sacks per year. Sorry he is a slight upgrade to Weaver to me right now.

And guess how many sacks Weaver had in his four year Baltimore career: 14.5. The exact same number as Smith in his Arizona career. Somehow I don't think his pay will be commensurate to his pass-rushing production. He's a solid player, but for a team that had so much trouble getting to the quarterback, it's a bit odd that we're prioritizing pursuit of a DE starter whose more of a run-stopping LDE type.

[painekiller]

And guess how many sacks Weaver had in his four year Baltimore career: 14.5. The exact same number as Smith in his Arizona career. Somehow I don't think his pay will be commensurate to his pass-rushing production. He's a solid player, but for a team that had so much trouble getting to the quarterback, it's a bit odd that we're prioritizing pursuit of a DE starter whose more of a run-stopping LDE type.

And I thought Weaver was overpaid just like Wadd was overpaid. Casserly overpaid every FA he brought in.

[nero THE zero]

Smith's not nearly as similar to Weaver as you guys are making it out to be. Weaver was a 3-4 DE whose strengths are tying up blockers and playing the run. Smith is a 4-3 DE (http://forums.azcardinals.com/showpost.php?p=543751&postcount=6) who's apparently not as good against the run (http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2009/02/ten_free_agents_the_houston_te_1.html#comments) as you would think:

Antonio Smith, DE, Arizona: Frank Bush knows Smith a little bit from his time with the Cardinals and I'm sure he realizes that Smith is average as a pass rusher when he's at defensive end, but a handful when he is bumped down inside to defensive tackle on third downs. Smith has pretty good size, but he's not as good against the run as you would expect for a player his size. Still, he has a nice set of spin moves that can be very tough for guards to handle and he would be an upgrade in terms of athleticism on the defensive line.

I think he'd be a good piece to start at LDE and move inside next to Amobi on passing downs with a mid-round pass rushing specialist coming in at end. This signing would allow us to keep our options open in the first round and not tie us to having to draft a certain position. So you (1)find your starting LDE and (2)are allowed to keep your options open in the draft.

Sign me up.

[nunusguy]

And I thought Weaver was overpaid just like Wadd was overpaid. Casserly overpaid every FA he brought in.
Weaver was Kubiaks choice as much as anybodys back in 2006 when he got the HC job. I remember Kubiak specifically saying of all of our DLineman we still didn't have a true strong-side DE for the 4-3 he was transitioning to and that's why Kubiak said he signed Weaver, in spite of the fact that he'd played in the 3-4 in Baltimore. I think Weaver played SS DE in college at Notre Dame.
But I don't see Smith as that much of an upgrade of Weaver either. And what is this reluctance to once and for all declare our best strong-side DE as our new starting stong-side DE (Mario's "natural poisition") which would then free us up to look at the wide array of lighter, quicker DEs available in this upcoming Draft to play weakside DE ?

[mussop]

Weaver was Kubiaks choice as much as anybodys back in 2006 when he got the HC job. I remember Kubiak specifically saying of all of our DLineman we still didn't have a true strong-side DE for the 4-3 he was transitioning to and that's why Kubiak said he signed Weaver, in spite of the fact that he'd played in the 3-4 in Baltimore. I think Weaver played SS DE in college at Notre Dame.
But I don't see Smith as that much of an upgrade of Weaver either. And what is this reluctance to once and for all declare our best strong-side DE as our new starting stong-side DE (Mario's "natural poisition") which would then free us up to look at the wide array of lighter, quicker DEs available in this upcoming Draft to play weakside DE ?

His signing could mean we are looking at drafting one of the undersized DE's (Maybin or Brown) that could slip to us. Or maybe we are considering picking up one of the OLB's (Mathews or Cushing) that can put their hand down on 3rd down and rush the passer. Seems likely if this guy is going to move inside on passing downs. Personally I hope we trade down and get more picks and we take Mathews.

[painekiller]

Weaver was Kubiaks choice as much as anybodys back in 2006 when he got the HC job. I remember Kubiak specifically saying of all of our DLineman we still didn't have a true strong-side DE for the 4-3 he was transitioning to and that's why Kubiak said he signed Weaver, in spite of the fact that he'd played in the 3-4 in Baltimore. I think Weaver played SS DE in college at Notre Dame.


I agree he was Kubiak's choice from what was out there, but it was Casserly who overpaid him. Just like Capers wanted Babin, but Casserly gave up the farm for him to a division rival in cap trouble.

[jppaul]

His signing could mean we are looking at drafting one of the undersized DE's (Maybin or Brown) that could slip to us. Or maybe we are considering picking up one of the OLB's (Mathews or Cushing) that can put their hand down on 3rd down and rush the passer. Seems likely if this guy is going to move inside on passing downs. Personally I hope we trade down and get more picks and we take Mathews.

If Antonio Smith is that Justin Tuck type that kicks inside on third downs then we will probably still need an edge rush specalist. I don't know if specalist who plays only on third downs is worth a first pick, unless like you say he is an OLB for the other downs, but he is probably worth a second pick.

Say a Michael Johnson in the second, or a Brian Cushing/Clay Matthews in the first.

[nunusguy]

I agree he was Kubiak's choice from what was out there, but it was Casserly who overpaid him. Just like Capers wanted Babin, but Casserly gave up the farm for him to a division rival in cap trouble.
Casserly had to pay the price to beat the rest of the FA market to get Kubiak his strongiside DE and he did what he had to do to trade-up and get the pick to get Capers & Fangio their perceived franchise 3-4 pass-rusher. Casserly was just doing his job.
On the other hand, I'll join you all day long in bashing Casserly for what he gave up to Oakland in the P-Burnt acquisition or the mindless exchange of a
second-round pick for Tony Hollings.