At The Combine

[Roy P]

I figured why not start a thread about what's going on in Indy.

Today's top stories...

1. Michael Crabtree - My highest rated player has a foot problem that needs surgery (like Jonathan Stewart) and will not be able to run before the draft. Could he really slip to #15?

2. Andre Smith - Told everyone that he would not bench yesterday because he is not in shape and has not prepared. Today, he was not in the building and nobody knew where he was. His agent took the bullet saying that it was his fault that he didn't tell everyone that his client was leaving for Atlanta to work out today in preparation of his Pro Day. He's not on my draft board and this only reinforces my doubts about his maturity.

3. Jason Smith - Probably the #1 pick in the draft, we have no shot at him.

4. TE Jared Cook is going to be going up on my draft board. He ran a 4.42 today and looks like a weapon. TE Shawn Nelson will also be climbing.

5. C Eric wood improved his stock.


edit - This just in...Crabtree will now run at his Pro Day

[dalemurphy]

What about this tackle from Nebraska: Murtha... he ran in the 4.8s and looked pretty darn good from what I saw. Do you think he'd make some sense for us as a backup/project at guard perhaps in the 3rd round, and, would he be there?

[Roy P]

Murtha is a 6-7th round prospect. He played in the Texas vs. The Nation game. Don't get too carried away with measurables. He will be lucky to make a roster in the NFL. Today's measurables probably means that he will be given a shot.

[Roy P]

4. TE Jared Cook is going to be going up on my draft board. He ran a 4.42 today and looks like a weapon. TE Shawn Nelson will also be climbing.


Cook is now a 2nd round pick and Nelson is now a 3rd round pick in my book. I realize that O.D. is on our roster and we don't need another pass-catching TE, but I just can't help myself. Also, these guys are 6' 5" and would be big targets in the Red Zone.

The official 40s for these guys were 4.50 and 4.56 accoding the NFL Network. Their other measurables were also pretty impressive.

Cook - 23 Reps, 41" Vert, 10' 3" Jump
Nelson - 33" Vert, 9' 7" Jump, 6.96 Cone

[idymoe]

I know you guys probably get bored with me posting about BSU guys, but I was shocked when Ian Johnson weighed in at 212 and threw up 26 reps on the bench. I think he was about 195 his senior year. I thought he would run in the mid 4.4's and he did 4.46. The surprise to me was that was good enough for second best among running backs. I don't see why that wouldn't get him drafted, now. His positives have always been his patience as a runner, vision and deceptive change of speeds. The knocks have been his size and not blazing speed. So now he's added muscle and strength and ran one one-hundredth slower than the best time for running backs.

Peerman and Sheets helped themselves, also. I don't know how far they move up. Johnson and Sheets aren't even supposed to be drafted on some mocks. I don't think any of the top rated backs hurt themselves today, there just weren't any burners this year like Chris Johnson.

Gartrell Johnson's thighs are freaking huge. (thank you mr. obvious) He ran a 4.71, which I think is fine for the load he brings. I thought Jeremiah Johnson would run faster than his 4.57. Well, I guess that covers the Johnsons.

Anyone see anything they weren't expecting with the running backs?

[nunusguy]

Murtha is a 6-7th round prospect. He played in the Texas vs. The Nation game. Don't get too carried away with measurables. He will be lucky to make a roster in the NFL. Today's measurables probably means that he will be given a shot.
Best 20-yard shuttle time (4.34) & 3-cone drill (7.06) along with top 40 time for OLineman. Athletically he's obviously highly qualified for ZB system.

[nunusguy]

Gartrell Johnson's thighs are freaking huge. (thank you mr. obvious) He ran a 4.71, which I think is fine for the load he brings.
And his second attempt was even slower at 4.77, with the official time maybe not breaking 4.8 ? I say good deal, maybe he slips even lower than the third round but I dunno if I'd want to risk it ?

[idymoe]

I think 4.71 is official. I'm getting times at Football's Future. Ian Johnson's unofficial times were 4.38 and 4.45 and they have his time at 4.46. It is sad you can't go to the official NFL site and easily find all the official results.

[Roy P]

I think 4.71 is official. I'm getting times at Football's Future. Ian Johnson's unofficial times were 4.38 and 4.45 and they have his time at 4.46. It is sad you can't go to the official NFL site and easily find all the official results.

You mean like here?

http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers

Or do you mean official results for EVERY player?

[Roy P]

Best 20-yard shuttle time (4.34) & 3-cone drill (7.06) along with top 40 time for OLineman. Athletically he's obviously highly qualified for ZB system.

Yeah, sort of like Adam Koets or Brandon Frye.

[dalemurphy]

Yeah, sort of like Adam Koets or Brandon Frye.

We're going to regret letting Brandon Frye get away. I thought he looked very good in the preseason last year. I thought it was a big mistake to keep Studdard on the roster and let him go to the practice squad. On the other hand, there is the slight possibility that Alex Gibbs is better at evaluating NFL Oline talent than I am. I guess time will tell.

[nunusguy]

We're going to regret letting Brandon Frye get away. I thought he looked very good in the preseason last year. I thought it was a big mistake to keep Studdard on the roster and let him go to the practice squad. On the other hand, there is the slight possibility that Alex Gibbs is better at evaluating NFL Oline talent than I am. I guess time will tell.

You're forgetting that Studdard badysat Kubiaks kids and his father was Kubiaks buddy. That was his key to making the roster because he certainly wasn't a player qualified to play in the Texans' system they were running under Gibbs.
And was there really that much difference between Frye and Duane Brown ? Well actually I guess there was. It was the investment involved - one was a first-rounder and the other a fifth-rounder.

[painekiller]

We're going to regret letting Brandon Frye get away. I thought he looked very good in the preseason last year. I thought it was a big mistake to keep Studdard on the roster and let him go to the practice squad. On the other hand, there is the slight possibility that Alex Gibbs is better at evaluating NFL Oline talent than I am. I guess time will tell.

You saw it the way I saw it. I was on the front row for many of the one on one drills during the summer and Studdard showed no feet. While Frye showed some ability.

[painekiller]

I think 4.71 is official. I'm getting times at Football's Future. Ian Johnson's unofficial times were 4.38 and 4.45 and they have his time at 4.46. It is sad you can't go to the official NFL site and easily find all the official results.

Wow, I did not see that one coming. Johnson does not play up to his times.

[dalemurphy]

You saw it the way I saw it. I was on the front row for many of the one on one drills during the summer and Studdard showed no feet. While Frye showed some ability.

It was a lot of fun to watch the tackle play in the second half of our preseason games: Butler and Frye both looked really good, I thought. I was very disappointed when I saw Frye didn't make the roster. I would have had him on the roster ahead of Studdard and Salaam. People over at texanstalk.com raked me over the coals for those comments in August and September.

[jppaul]

Wow, I did not see that one coming. Johnson does not play up to his times.

What always really struck me about Johnson was his patience in waiting for the play to develop, but for me the knock is that he is not agile, by that I mean he is slow footed, despite his 40 time.

I like him but I don't see alot of pro potential there.

[Roy P]

Wow, I did not see that one coming. Johnson does not play up to his times.

Well, I am going to put Johnson and Glen Coffee on my draft board. I was sitting on the fence, but after today, they look like good 4th round RBs.

I will have to say that Knowshon Moreno sort of dissapointed me a bit. While it was nice to see him bulk up to 217lbs, I thought for sure that he was a sub 4.6 player. The Cone and Shuttle was where I wanted, but not the long speed. In fact, I'm moving Donald Brown up over Knowshon as my top RB.

Shonn Greene and Rashad Jennings were a lot slower than I was expecting. Jennings 1st unofficial time of 4.42 was so much faster than his 2nd 4.6 that they asked him to run a 3rd time (4.62) so they could determine which was the anomoly.

I'm still scratching my head on RB James Davis and WR Jeremy Maclin. Their unofficial times were quicker than the official times, because they aren't on the leader boards. The slowest official RB time was 4.59 (Beannie Wells) while the slowest official WR time was 4.44 (Kenny McKinley). Since neither are on the list, I suppose that means that their times were even slower, officially. Unofficially, Davis - 4.49 & Maclin - 4.40.

Value at the RB position may come from a guy like Andre Brown, Cedric Peerman, Kory Sheets, or Javaris Williams. While Brown and Moreno are more complete, we may only be looking for a compliment to Slaton that can take some carries and convert short yardage.

The WRs were fast, but the only late round slot/KR/PR that I'm interested in is Mike Thomas. Heyward-Bey, Britt, Mike Wallace, Underwood, and Robiskie are tempting, but I've got bigger fish to fry. I simply don't have a good feel for Johnny Knox, but I'm sure somebody will give him a shot.

At QB, JP Wilson was solid. Stephen McGee flashed. Currently, I'm not optimistic that anyone will be itching to trade up to #15 for Mark Sanchez. I can't imagine any scenario in which Stafford falls out of the top 5.

I was impressed by the Bench numbers of some DL/LB players. T. Taylor at 37, Veikune - 35 (they test for steroids at the Combine), Ziggy Hood - 34, Raji - 33, Orakpo - 31, Cushing - 30 (see Veikune), Freeman - 30, McKillop & McKenzie - 27, Curry - 25, and my sleeper Lee Robinson - 24.

[idymoe]

Roy, yes I meant for every player. They have the information. Why not make it available to the geeks like us that pay their salaries. Seriously, if there weren't such a large fan base for pro football, a guy being miffed at only being guaranteed 10 million for one year would be unthinkable. I know there are fans everywhere that have some regional guy at the combine that they would like to know how he did, even if he weren't in the top performers.

PK, about Ian Johnson. I've watched about 90 percent of Ian Johnson's games, and he played a lot as a freshman. You say he doesn't play up to his speed, but how do you think he racked up all those yards and touchdowns. I know when you watch him, he doesn't look all that fast. He has always been a very patient runner, waiting for the blocks to develop. He has had many long runs in his career. I have seen a lot of these runs where I thought someone had the angle on him and Johnson just has a little left and runs past the guy. It's just surprising, because you don't see that top speed unless he is into the secondary. He's not really a juker and he doesn't run over guys, although he does break tackles because defenders don't end up with the angle on him they think they had. I am much more surprised by the muscle he has put on. He is a great guy, too. After the Fiesta Bowl, he had just about rock star status around Boise. This last year, he asked to play special teams and was an impact player, blocking a couple of punts. His carries were down significantly his junior and senior year, because of some really fast underclassmen. He never complained, just tried to do everything he possibly could to help the team.

[painekiller]

PK, about Ian Johnson. I've watched about 90 percent of Ian Johnson's games, and he played a lot as a freshman. You say he doesn't play up to his speed, but how do you think he racked up all those yards and touchdowns.

Even Charles Davis commented he did not see that coming. At the Shrine Game he could not get to the edge, you may call that patience, but that is not what it looked like to me.

I will admit i have not watched most of his games, that turf hurts my eyes, and he is a feel good story. Also he seems like a 1st class young man, but I will pass on him.

I do like his knitted caps.

[nunusguy]

Yeah, sort of like Adam Koets or Brandon Frye.
I thought you lived by those 3-cone & shuttle times in rating the potential of OLineman for the ZBS ?

[idymoe]

I do like his knitted caps.

Maybe you can get one now. The NCAA made him quit selling them. :D

[nunusguy]

Early 40 times coming back for DEs aren't impressive: 4.78 for Maybin & 4.84 for Kruger. On the other hand, as I recall everybody was disappointed with Suggs when he couldn't break 4.7 when he ran for us back in 2003 but he turned out OK.
BTW, why do many insist on calling Orakpo a tweener since he's a carved-up 263 ? 263 is not big enough to playe weakside DE ?

[idymoe]

Conner Barwin 6'4" 256 lbs 4.56 forty, 40.5 vertical. Wow

Lawrence Sidbury 6'2" 266 lbs 4.53 forty. Not bad

Everett Brown 6'2" 256 lbs 4.63 forty. Not as tall as advertised. Not bad time.

Aaron Maybin 6'4" 249 lbs 4.78 forty. Not a wow.

[idymoe]

Brian Orakpo 6'3" 263 lbs 4.63 forty. Nice

Stryker Sulak 6'4" 251 lbs 4.66 forty. Surprising

[dalemurphy]

Conner Barwin 6'4" 256 lbs 4.56 forty, 40.5 vertical. Wow

Lawrence Sidbury 6'2" 266 lbs 4.53 forty. Not bad

Everett Brown 6'2" 256 lbs 4.63 forty. Not as tall as advertised. Not bad time.

Aaron Maybin 6'4" 249 lbs 4.78 forty. Not a wow.

Maybin's time wasn't great but he sure looked explosive. And, he's added 15 lbs since December. And, from looking at him, most of that is muscle!

[idymoe]

Do you know if Raji ran today? No time listed for him.

Nevermind. I see he ran a 5.13 at 337 lbs.

There is no time for Peria Jerry, though.

Ziggy Hood ran a 4.89 at 300 lbs and Dorrell Scott ran a 4.90 at 312 lbs. I would hate to try to stop that.

[barrett]

so Orakpo is bigger and faster than all of the guys that have been thrown around as possible picks the last month? Not to mention he out-played and out produced all of them.

It's amazing how the all-star/combine season can over analyze things until up is down and down is up.

[barrett]

Roy, yes I meant for every player. They have the information. Why not make it available to the geeks like us that pay their salaries. Seriously, if there weren't such a large fan base for pro football, a guy being miffed at only being guaranteed 10 million for one year would be unthinkable. I know there are fans everywhere that have some regional guy at the combine that they would like to know how he did, even if he weren't in the top performers.

PK, about Ian Johnson. I've watched about 90 percent of Ian Johnson's games, and he played a lot as a freshman. You say he doesn't play up to his speed, but how do you think he racked up all those yards and touchdowns. I know when you watch him, he doesn't look all that fast. He has always been a very patient runner, waiting for the blocks to develop. He has had many long runs in his career. I have seen a lot of these runs where I thought someone had the angle on him and Johnson just has a little left and runs past the guy. It's just surprising, because you don't see that top speed unless he is into the secondary. He's not really a juker and he doesn't run over guys, although he does break tackles because defenders don't end up with the angle on him they think they had. I am much more surprised by the muscle he has put on. He is a great guy, too. After the Fiesta Bowl, he had just about rock star status around Boise. This last year, he asked to play special teams and was an impact player, blocking a couple of punts. His carries were down significantly his junior and senior year, because of some really fast underclassmen. He never complained, just tried to do everything he possibly could to help the team.

In the same post you say he is faster than he looks and had plenty of speed to rack up yards. Then you mention later he lost carries to "really fast underclassmen." So which is it? If he is not fast when compared to other BSU RBs then he is not fast. If the BSU coaching staff who had him for 11 years (seemingly) does not think he is the best runner on their team then he is not that good.

[idymoe]

He is fast. A kid named Avery is blazing fast. Chris Johnson fast. I'm sure he's too small to play in the NFL, but he is a great college back. He is under 180 pounds, but runs surprising well between the tackles. There is no contradiction. BSU's philosophy for many years has been to rotate in as many players as possible. Johnson's sophomore year where he carried the ball so much was not typical.

[Keith]

The WRs were fast, but the only late round slot/KR/PR that I'm interested in is Mike Thomas. Funny you mention Thomas... he is big-time on my radar. Seems like an awesome slot candidate with return ability. Big hands. Terrific quickness. Short, but thick enough. He could put David Anderson out of a job here, and I'm really starting to like Anderson's future.

Brian Orakpo 6'3" 263 lbs 4.63 forty. Nice
so Orakpo is bigger and faster than all of the guys that have been thrown around as possible picks the last month? Not to mention he out-played and out produced all of them.

It's amazing how the all-star/combine season can over analyze things until up is down and down is up.

I have to agree. There seems to be some Orakpo bashing, but I like him. John McClain (parroting Kubiak I presume) keeps saying that the team won't go after a smallish RDE since that's Mario's position, but I like Mario at LDE better. I would be interested in knowing the splits from last year on RDE vs. LDE for Mario if anyone knows where to find them...

Aaron Maybin 6'4" 249 lbs 4.78 forty. Not a wow.
That's faster than Terrell Suggs' forty time. Didn't seem to hurt him in the pros. :p

[idymoe]

Just to clarify on Johnson's college career, then I promise I'll stop.


Carries Yards Long TD's

06-07

277 1755 59 25

07-08

207 1087 72 16
Jeremy Avery
103 698 50 8

08-09

150 810 69 13
Jeremy Avery
111 639 57 4

Johnson also caught 22 passes for 229 yds and a long of 51 in 08-09.

BSU passed a lot more in 08-09 than before. They switched up their offensive starting line just about every game, trying to find the best combination. Freshman quarterback Kellen Moore had an incredible year.

[barrett]

Funny you mention Thomas... he is big-time on my radar. Seems like an awesome slot candidate with return ability. Big hands. Terrific quickness. Short, but thick enough. He could put David Anderson out of a job here, and I'm really starting to like Anderson's future. :p

Then I don't like the guy. A curse on anyone who would hinder my ability to watch the string dance in an NFL endzone.

[nunusguy]

I dunno, but Matthews was maybe the most impressive LB out of USC, and not just as a value. Mayoc & crew seemed to think he was the best pass-rushing prospect of that LB group and even mentioned he was voted top USC STs player last 2 years. Lot of versatility. Also ran in the 4.6s (official), which
was a better time than Cushing recorded.

[nero THE zero]

I have to agree. There seems to be some Orakpo bashing, but I like him. John McClain (parroting Kubiak I presume) keeps saying that the team won't go after a smallish RDE since that's Mario's position, but I like Mario at LDE better. I would be interested in knowing the splits from last year on RDE vs. LDE for Mario if anyone knows where to find them...

I think McClain's FOS on this one.

1. Mario doesn't line up exclusively at RDE. They moved him all around the line last year. So, it's not like he will lose himself if he starts at LDE instead of RDE.

2. Mario is tailor-made for the LDE position. His pass rushing skills become that much more valuable from the LDE spot than the RDE spot. It's analogous to getting a catcher who can hit 30HR and .300. Sure, you could move him to first base, but it kind of takes away from his value being able to play behind the plate. If you keep Mario at RDE you are not taking full advantage of both his run stopping and pass rushing abilities.

3. Most importantly, we need a pass rush. Adding a(nother) LDE is simply not addressing our needs and really does not make a lick of sense.

[idymoe]

Looks like Conner Barwin had the best shuttle and cone times, as well.

[dalemurphy]

I think McClain's FOS on this one.

1. Mario doesn't line up exclusively at RDE. They moved him all around the line last year. So, it's not like he will lose himself if he starts at LDE instead of RDE.

2. Mario is tailor-made for the LDE position. His pass rushing skills become that much more valuable from the LDE spot than the RDE spot. It's analogous to getting a catcher who can hit 30HR and .300. Sure, you could move him to first base, but it kind of takes away from his value being able to play behind the plate. If you keep Mario at RDE you are not taking full advantage of both his run stopping and pass rushing abilities.
3. Most importantly, we need a pass rush. Adding a(nother) LDE is simply not addressing our needs and really does not make a lick of sense.

EXACTLY!- I just don't like to hear that stuff from McClain because he hints that he has a source inside the team. So, I remain slightly concerned that the Texans' actually are thinking that way as well. Though I think a lot of the organization now, I've still seen enough bone-headedness to stay worried: Studdard making the squad over Brandon Frye; employing Richard Smtih for a 3rd year and every defensive decision that went along with that.

[Roy P]

I dunno, but Matthews was maybe the most impressive LB out of USC, and not just as a value. Mayoc & crew seemed to think he was the best pass-rushing prospect of that LB group and even mentioned he was voted top USC STs player last 2 years. Lot of versatility. Also ran in the 4.6s (official), which
was a better time than Cushing recorded.

Clay Matthews is going on my draft board. I'm just trying to figure out if I put him in the 1st round or 2nd round. I'll have to go back and watch some tape on him, since I kind of dismissed him. I was paying too much attention to Cushing and Rey Rey.

Matthews looks to be the guy that I was thinking Maybin or Brown could be based upon his and their measurables.


edit- I even typed "Cushing" when I meant Matthews the first time I posted this. Sorry for the confusion.

[nunusguy]

Looks like Conner Barwin had the best shuttle and cone times, as well.
Wow, did that guy have a big day. And he earned himself some big bucks.
I remember him from the Senior Bowl (primarily the one-on-one drills during the week), but he's got a real burst and did well against some of the big OLineman in those drills.

[Roy P]

I have to agree. There seems to be some Orakpo bashing, but I like him. John McClain (parroting Kubiak I presume) keeps saying that the team won't go after a smallish RDE since that's Mario's position, but I like Mario at LDE better.


Lawrence Sidbury Jr. of Richmond is my biggest climber at the Combine. I'd be willing to use a 2nd rounder on this kid. He has the arms of a Condor and his speed is now unquestioned.

PK and I were discussing a combo of Maybin, Kruger, and Cody Brown. Now, I'm considering Matthews, Sidbury, and Gerald McGrath.

[idymoe]

I just saw highlights of Conner Barwin's day. He runs really quiet for a big man. Mariucci said he played basketball at Cin. early on and caught 53 passes at tight end. He looks very athletic and has already shown quite a bit of versitility. I'm thinking he goes before our 2nd pick, so I don't think we'll have a shot at him.

Sidbuby would have to really jump to move past our 2nd, so if you wanted to spend a 2 on him, I think he will be there.

[Roy P]

Man, I need to Orakpo's Cone and Shuttle times. I also want Sidbury's cone drill. Right now I'm wondering if I take Clay Mathews over Orakpo and then select Sidbury in the 2nd. I can't imagine a 2nd round OLB that can match Clay while Lawrence can perhaps be as good as Orakpo in terms of pass-rush.

[Roy P]

I thought you lived by those 3-cone & shuttle times in rating the potential of OLineman for the ZBS ?

Yeah, but they have to be able to block. I like what I see from Eric Wood, for example. Good times, but ALSO good play on the field.

[sinnister]

Man, I need to Orakpo's Cone and Shuttle times. I also want Sidbury's cone drill. Right now I'm wondering if I take Clay Mathews over Orakpo and then select Sidbury in the 2nd. I can't imagine a 2nd round OLB that can match Clay while Lawrence can perhaps be as good as Orakpo in terms of pass-rush.

Right now, I am really like Clay Matthews as our pick.

[Roy P]

What's the over/under on James Laurinitis and a 4.81? He might last until the 3rd round. Ouch!

[mussop]

What's the over/under on James Laurinitis and a 4.81? He might last until the 3rd round. Ouch!

Wanna bet??? What did Demeco run I cant remember?

[Roy P]

What did Demeco run I cant remember?

4.65, which would make him the 4th fastest LB in this draft.

[painekiller]

PK and I were discussing a combo of Maybin, Kruger, and Cody Brown. Now, I'm considering Matthews, Sidbury, and Gerald McGrath.


I have like Sidbuby since I saw him at the Shrine game. And like you I had him farther down the list from the guys we where talking about, I can see him as a 2nd.

Another name to watch for me is David Veikune. He is still on the late round pick up watch list.

[nunusguy]

What would we do with a Laurinitis (or a Rey-Rey) if you take the Texans reported comments that DeMecos stays in the middle as legit, unless you think he could play SAM and I think he struggle covering TEs if he's over there ?
And having a resume as a muti-year standout in the Big 10 is just not as impressive anymore as the SEC resume guys like DeMeco & Willis have.

[Roy P]

What would we do with a Laurinitis (or a Rey-Rey).

I'd let somebody else draft them. :)

There are only 2 LBs in this draft who are going to be low risk, high reward.

1. Aaron Curry
2. Clay Matthews

Now, others may turn out to have fine careers and be worth a 1st or 2nd round pick. Right now, I just can't think of one.

[nunusguy]

I like what I see from Eric Wood, for example.
Yep. He really whipped up on Raji in the SB game.

[papabear]

EXACTLY!- I just don't like to hear that stuff from McClain because he hints that he has a source inside the team. So, I remain slightly concerned that the Texans' actually are thinking that way as well. Though I think a lot of the organization now, I've still seen enough bone-headedness to stay worried: Studdard making the squad over Brandon Frye; employing Richard Smtih for a 3rd year and every defensive decision that went along with that.

McClain also said the franchise tag was not an option for D.R. Any information that McLain gets is because the Texans WANT the information public IMO....in other words a possible smoke screen of our true intentions in the draft.

[papabear]

I have like Sidbuby since I saw him at the Shrine game.

I liked what I saw there too. Although at that time I thought he would be a much later round pick than a second. Someone we could use as a situational pass rusher early on. I'm not as confident in him as a second round pick becaue for some reason I see him as a guy that will take a little time to develop as an all around player.

[jppaul]

I am starting to think about Malcolm Jenkins at safety after he dropped a 4.55, and he will probably be around after that performance.

[bono]

I like Patrick Chung but i think he might be a 2nd rounder and not slip to the 3rd

[painekiller]

I like Patrick Chung but i think he might be a 2nd rounder and not slip to the 3rd

He is a solid 2nd rounder, i have him as the #1 safety, yes above Dumas.

[Roy P]

I am starting to think about Malcolm Jenkins at safety after he dropped a 4.55, and he will probably be around after that performance.

I've been thinking that about Vontae Davis. Then I saw what Chris Clemons, David Bruton, CJ Spillman, and Chip Vaughn did today. Maybe I don't have to spend a 1st round pick on an impact S afterall.

[papabear]

I am starting to think about Malcolm Jenkins at safety after he dropped a 4.55, and he will probably be around after that performance.

I know that's the usual response when a CB has good size and is a little slower than most people like. They really are two different skill sets though, especially if your talking about a CB who has played mostly man coverage. I wonder what the success rate is on guuys who try to make that switch when they get to the NFL? I would rather do it right away then wait a few years. Most CB's are going to resist it though, unless it's a way to extend there career (or their only chance to make a roster) for one simple reason...CB's make more money than Safeties.

[idymoe]

Anyone want to talk about Stephen Hodge S TCU 5'11 5/8 234 lbs. Ran a 4.49 forty. A tweener, TCU used him at safety and will. He blitzed a lot & had 8 sacks. Was a qb in high school. Big hitter, would be good on special teams. 6th or 7th round, maybe?

[nunusguy]

I am starting to think about Malcolm Jenkins at safety after he dropped a 4.55, and he will probably be around after that performance.

But not at #15. We've got a bigger fish to fry with that pick than a FS.
And a CB is not worth a top 15 pick to us if he's not atleast a sub 4.5 guy as long as we continue to operate as much man-coverage with our corners
as we do now.

[Roy P]

Anyone want to talk about Stephen Hodge S TCU 5'11 5/8 234 lbs. Ran a 4.49 forty. A tweener, TCU used him at safety and will. He blitzed a lot & had 8 sacks. Was a qb in high school. Big hitter, would be good on special teams. 6th or 7th round, maybe?

I really like him at the college level. At best, he's Sam Mills - a short LB. He played around the LOS in college, so I'm not sure about him in pass coverage. He's great against the run, so maybe they consider him as a WILL. He'd definitely be a project.

[Keith]

A bit of levity - Rich Eisen running the 40, stay tuned for the shadow cam thingy at the end:

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80eea0dc

[painekiller]

A bit of levity - Rich Eisen running the 40, stay tuned for the shadow cam thingy at the end:

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80eea0dc

The Shadow cam with Raji is funny as hell.

[nunusguy]

The Shadow cam with Raji is funny as hell.

Raji beats Eisen by what, 6 yards in the 40 ? Very entertaining. The NFLNetwork crew is fun and informative all at once.
Here's my question: Can Eisen do play-by-play ? Why can't we come up with a twosome of Eisen & Mayoc (or threesome with Mayocs buddy Charles) to staff ESPNs MNF ? Anything to get rid of Kornheiser !

[papabear]

I wish they did this with some of the players. I heard some one say the other day they were dissapointed that this guy ran a 4.64, but he was hoping he would run a mid to high 4.5. So if the guy runs a 4.57 he's OK but not if he's .07 seconds slower? So a better lean at the tape means he can play in the NFL?

[painekiller]

Raji beats Eisen by what, 6 yards in the 40 ? Very entertaining. The NFLNetwork crew is fun and informative all at once.
Here's my question: Can Eisen do play-by-play ? Why can't we come up with a twosome of Eisen & Mayoc (or threesome with Mayocs buddy Charles) to staff ESPNs MNF ? Anything to get rid of Kornheiser !

Mainly because ESPN is not going to use NFL Network guys.:D

[Roy P]

I wish they did this with some of the players. I heard some one say the other day they were dissapointed that this guy ran a 4.64, but he was hoping he would run a mid to high 4.5. So if the guy runs a 4.57 he's OK but not if he's .07 seconds slower? So a better lean at the tape means he can play in the NFL?

At some point you have to draw a line. For somebody it might be 4.8. Then somebody comes behind them and says, well this guy ran a 4.81 are you going to dismiss them for .01 seconds?

There is no real black/white thing going on here. When players start getting so deep in the gray, you just have to cut bait.

For example, if I'm looking for a MLB my target 40 time would be around 4.63. Any time better is gravy and any time worse I start having to come up with reasons to keep him on the board. If a guy runs 4.67, he better be a thumper that can tackle very well. If he goes 4.77, then he has to be able to defeat OL blocks and be able to stack and shed. At 4.8, he better have the instincts of a pyschic and know the playbook better than the other teams' Offensive Coordinator. If he runs a 4.81 - then I can't draft him to play MLB because there isn't enough other things that he will be able to do to overcome the lack of speed that my defense would require. So, it wasn't the .01 second difference really - it was .17 seconds slower than the 4.63 that I desire. I think you can see the difference in .17 seconds on the Simulcam.

[papabear]

At some point you have to draw a line. For somebody it might be 4.8. Then somebody comes behind them and says, well this guy ran a 4.81 are you going to dismiss them for .01 seconds?




I understand that, but I don't think the average person really understands how little difference there is between some of the times and get way to fixated on what amounts to a half step. That can be the difference in being open in the NFL, but at the combine it's probably more indicative of who spent the most time working with a track coach. That is one thing about the combine though. The players know what drills will be there, and it's good to find out who were the ones willing to put in the work to get better at the things they will be tested on. If a guy got confused on how to run the three cone that would probably set off as many alarm bells for me as a 40 that was slightly below par.

I just wish they had some kind of graphic representation to compare two players. I would be more willing to discount a player for a slow ten or twenty yard split then I would for a 40. I'm a guy who loves having speed, but if a LB or RB is a tenth slower then a target time for the forty, but has a great 3 cone and looks good on film, and has a good initial burst...so what on the 40.


I'm not saying I want a CB who runs 4.8, and I don't think the 40 is worthless. It is definitely a tool that can be useful. I just think some people are way to fixated on it. I'm not talking about you Roy, or anyone else her for that matter. You are at least as accurate as the network guys with less information and resources.

[mussop]

I understand that, but I don't think the average person really understands how little difference there is between some of the times and get way to fixated on what amounts to a half step. That can be the difference in being open in the NFL, but at the combine it's probably more indicative of who spent the most time working with a track coach. That is one thing about the combine though. The players know what drills will be there, and it's good to find out who were the ones willing to put in the work to get better at the things they will be tested on. If a guy got confused on how to run the three cone that would probably set off as many alarm bells for me as a 40 that was slightly below par.

I just wish they had some kind of graphic representation to compare two players. I would be more willing to discount a player for a slow ten or twenty yard split then I would for a 40. I'm a guy who loves having speed, but if a LB or RB is a tenth slower then a target time for the forty, but has a great 3 cone and looks good on film, and has a good initial burst...so what on the 40.


I'm not saying I want a CB who runs 4.8, and I don't think the 40 is worthless. It is definitely a tool that can be useful. I just think some people are way to fixated on it. I'm not talking about you Roy, or anyone else her for that matter. You are at least as accurate as the network guys with less information and resources.

This is why I dont pay much attention to the combine.

[barrett]

I understand that, but I don't think the average person really understands how little difference there is between some of the times and get way to fixated on what amounts to a half step. That can be the difference in being open in the NFL, but at the combine it's probably more indicative of who spent the most time working with a track coach. That is one thing about the combine though. The players know what drills will be there, and it's good to find out who were the ones willing to put in the work to get better at the things they will be tested on. If a guy got confused on how to run the three cone that would probably set off as many alarm bells for me as a 40 that was slightly below par.

I just wish they had some kind of graphic representation to compare two players. I would be more willing to discount a player for a slow ten or twenty yard split then I would for a 40. I'm a guy who loves having speed, but if a LB or RB is a tenth slower then a target time for the forty, but has a great 3 cone and looks good on film, and has a good initial burst...so what on the 40.


I'm not saying I want a CB who runs 4.8, and I don't think the 40 is worthless. It is definitely a tool that can be useful. I just think some people are way to fixated on it. I'm not talking about you Roy, or anyone else her for that matter. You are at least as accurate as the network guys with less information and resources.

This is why I do pay attention to the combine.

If a guy cannot prepare for the combine and run and test at his best with his future on the line, then he lacks the profesionalism and work ethic to be a very good NFL football player.

[James]

Probably not the appropriate spot for this post, however; I was perusing the old draft pick value chart, considering some mock draft possibilities, when I realized that either Stafford, Sanchez, or (now a bit more likely) both, will be there at 15. After the 15th pick though, the Jets, Bucs, Bears, and Lions are in some need of a QB. Whether its both or just Sanchez, it would (wouldn't it?) suit the Lions to take the best tackle (J Smith) #1 and trade us their 3rd to move up . . .wouldn't it? Perhaps just dreaming . . .

[painekiller]

Probably not the appropriate spot for this post, however; I was perusing the old draft pick value chart, considering some mock draft possibilities, when I realized that either Stafford, Sanchez, or (now a bit more likely) both, will be there at 15. After the 15th pick though, the Jets, Bucs, Bears, and Lions are in some need of a QB. Whether its both or just Sanchez, it would (wouldn't it?) suit the Lions to take the best tackle (J Smith) #1 and trade us their 3rd to move up . . .wouldn't it? Perhaps just dreaming . . .

No I find that a very plausible thing to happen.

[jppaul]

I am personally on the draft Malcolm Jenkins at 15 to be a safety train now.

[mussop]

Probably not the appropriate spot for this post, however; I was perusing the old draft pick value chart, considering some mock draft possibilities, when I realized that either Stafford, Sanchez, or (now a bit more likely) both, will be there at 15. After the 15th pick though, the Jets, Bucs, Bears, and Lions are in some need of a QB. Whether its both or just Sanchez, it would (wouldn't it?) suit the Lions to take the best tackle (J Smith) #1 and trade us their 3rd to move up . . .wouldn't it? Perhaps just dreaming . . .

Check this thread (http://www.inthebullseye.com/forums/showthread.php?t=392) out its already been talked about. I still think this is one of our best shots at trading down. No way Detroit drafts a QB first. I just dont believe it. The pick will be Curry or (more likely) Monroe. If one of the top QB's fall they will have to jump in front of a few other teams to assure they get one. Surrendering a 3rd to make sure they get their QB of the future isnt out of the question.

[mussop]

I am personally on the draft Malcolm Jenkins at 15 to be a safety train now.

I would be extremely happy with that!

[NickO]

Probably not the appropriate spot for this post, however; I was perusing the old draft pick value chart, considering some mock draft possibilities, when I realized that either Stafford, Sanchez, or (now a bit more likely) both, will be there at 15. After the 15th pick though, the Jets, Bucs, Bears, and Lions are in some need of a QB. Whether its both or just Sanchez, it would (wouldn't it?) suit the Lions to take the best tackle (J Smith) #1 and trade us their 3rd to move up . . .wouldn't it? Perhaps just dreaming . . .

Shades of Cleveland in 2007. In bad need of a QB, selected Joe Thomas 3rd overall then traded back up to grab Brady Quinn.

Browns Got:
2007 1st Rd Pick (22nd Overall)

Dallas Got:
2007 2nd Rd Pick (36th Overall)
2008 1st Rd Pick (which turned out to be 22nd Overall thanks to Derek Anderson)


So the question is, would the Texans trade back from 15th overall for the Lions 2nd rounder (33rd overall) and their 1st next year? That's a long way to trade back, but remember a couple things:

1) Consensus is there's a lack of top-end talent in the 2009 draft, but good depth
2) The Lions just went 0-16 and are freaking terrible, that could be a top five pick. Hell, Cleveland was freaking terrible and they were willing to gamble (Phil Savage got fired, but whatever)

[nunusguy]

Whether its both or just Sanchez

Excuse the digression, but can you just imagine the commercial potential of a Texas football franchise that has a Latino QB ?

[James]

VY would have brought commercial appeal, or even ReBu, the Texans don't care for appeal clearly, which is a good thing in my opinion. In regards to a third not being enough to drop 5 spots, the trusty value chart says we are +100 points in this deal, and; in my opinion are clearly getting the better of the deal considering the talent that will still be available there at 20 . . .just my 2 cents though.

[papabear]

If a guy cannot prepare for the combine and run and test at his best with his future on the line, then he lacks the profesionalism and work ethic to be a very good NFL football player.

Absolutely. That to me is one of the biggest aspects of the combine.

[papabear]

I am personally on the draft Malcolm Jenkins at 15 to be a safety train now.

I'm intrigued by this idea. A guy who was considered a top corner at Safety sounds great on paper. The problem is playing safety is a whole other skill set than playing man coverage type corner. I don't know enough about Jenkins to know if he would make a good safety or not, but there's more to being a safety than just being a slow corner.

[nunusguy]

I am personally on the draft Malcolm Jenkins at 15 to be a safety train now.

We just signed our starting FS to a 3-year contract.

[BigBull]

This is why I do pay attention to the combine.

If a guy cannot prepare for the combine and run and test at his best with his future on the line, then he lacks the profesionalism and work ethic to be a very good NFL football player.

I don't think that is a fair assessment of every player who performs poorly at the combine. It could be that their trainer didn't train them properly. Not everyone gets the benefit of training with a trainer like Danny Arnold of Plex. I think nerves play a big role in it too. I mean these young men that mostly come from families with little money know that how they perform could mean millions of dollars in some cases.

[BigBull]

I'm intrigued by this idea. A guy who was considered a top corner at Safety sounds great on paper. The problem is playing safety is a whole other skill set than playing man coverage type corner. I don't know enough about Jenkins to know if he would make a good safety or not, but there's more to being a safety than just being a slow corner.

He actually played a lot of safety for the Ohio State Buckeyes.

[Roy P]

He actually played a lot of safety for the Ohio State Buckeyes.

Jenkins is pretty adamant that he is a CB. Now, perhaps he's being defensive because he was considered a top ten pick before he ran a 4.55. Maybe he realizes that CB money is going to be more than FS money.

If I were to go by on field attributes, Vontae Davis would make the better FS. Then the 1st problem is will he be available at #15 after his Combine. He may be the ONLY CB worthy of a 1st round pick in this draft. The 2nd problem is he going to be willing to learn a new position that will potentially earn him less money.

The pundits point at Antrel Rolle in Arizona as the model. However, Rolle was given the opportunity to play CB before he was moved to FS. We are dealing with real people with pride in themselves who have been successful at every level. You have to be careful that they don't feel disrespected or you won't get the best effort out of them.

On the other hand, players who are drafted later in the draft, perhaps were not recruited (but walked on at College), will be very eager to do whatever it takes to make a roster. A player who feels he has something to prove has the intrinsic motivation to learn a new position. A "stud" who feels he has nothing to prove might learn a new position, but he'll do so begrudgingly.

[Roy P]

Check this thread (http://www.inthebullseye.com/forums/showthread.php?t=392) out its already been talked about.

Surrendering a 3rd to make sure they get their QB of the future isnt out of the question.

I'd love to trade down and get more picks, but let's step back a minute. The Detroit Lions could very well bundle some picks to the Patriots for the opportunity to pay Matt Cassel to play QB. He is the safest QB they could get because they have seen the level of play he's capable of in the NFL.

The San Diego Chargers are behind us with Whitehurst, Voler, and Rivers. Why wouldn't the Lions just trade up to #16 instead of #15? They just need to get ahead of the Jets, right?

[papabear]

The San Diego Chargers are behind us with Whitehurst, Voler, and Rivers. Why wouldn't the Lions just trade up to #16 instead of #15? They just need to get ahead of the Jets, right?

That's simple....because we just called the lions and told them that the jets were on the other line. How about you handle the scouting and I handle the trades:p

[papabear]

I don't think that is a fair assessment of every player who performs poorly at the combine. It could be that their trainer didn't train them properly. Not everyone gets the benefit of training with a trainer like Danny Arnold of Plex. I think nerves play a big role in it too. I mean these young men that mostly come from families with little money know that how they perform could mean millions of dollars in some cases.

It's not just the performance though. Is he in shape? Was he ready for the drills and how they were supposed to be run? If a guy's in good shape and runs a 4.7 then he just runs a 4.7. If a guy is flabby and huffing and puffing through the drills and runs a 4.7....he didn't take it seriously. It's not just the drills either. How do they carry themselves? Do they take the process seriously, or do they just treat it like a vacation.

It's perfectly understandable for a kid to be nervous, but his response to those nerves gives you some idea of how he handles all that pressure.

[Roy P]

That's simple....because we just called the lions and told them that the jets were on the other line. How about you handle the scouting and I handle the trades:p

If you are going to handle the trades, then make the deal with the Jets. That way we don't have to drop down to #20, we only have to drop to #17. :D

[Roy P]

Was he ready for the drills and how they were supposed to be run?

That is something that frustrates me. When a kid has to be told several times how to get into a stance before taking off on his 40, I just shake my head. I would expect a player to have prepared for his job interview to the point where he wouldn't need any instructions on the day of the Combine. In fact, by that point, he should be able to give the instructions on how to run a 40 as well as every other drill at the Combine.

I'm sitting here watching the NFL Network for the last couple of years and it never fails. Its funny, but I think I could run the drills without instructions and do them correctly. My times would be horrible, but the drill would be run like they are supposed to be.

It reflects a lack of pride in professionalism. I wish I could go back and watch Travis Johnson at the Combine to see if there were any signs to pick up on.

[jppaul]

I'm intrigued by this idea. A guy who was considered a top corner at Safety sounds great on paper. The problem is playing safety is a whole other skill set than playing man coverage type corner. I don't know enough about Jenkins to know if he would make a good safety or not, but there's more to being a safety than just being a slow corner.

Yeah, PB, but Jenkins also played alot of safety at Ohio State, he wasn't exclusively a corner they moved him around. Come on man, you don't think that I would base drafting him at safety because he was slow. Have a little faith.:D

I was just thinking after running that time he might actually be around at 15 now.

[painekiller]

If you are going to handle the trades, then make the deal with the Jets. That way we don't have to drop down to #20, we only have to drop to #17. :D

And what the heck do you want at 17? I want to drop completely out of the 1st and gather a bunch of 2nd round picks. That is when the value seems to outway the questions.

[papabear]

Yeah, PB, but Jenkins also played alot of safety at Ohio State, he wasn't exclusively a corner they moved him around. Come on man, you don't think that I would base drafting him at safety because he was slow. Have a little faith.:D

I was just thinking after running that time he might actually be around at 15 now.


I did kinda forget about that...but I still don't how much "alot" is. I don't watch the big 10 much. Consider it a general statement on the idea that you can just move any slow-ish corner to safety and everything will work out.

[papabear]

And what the heck do you want at 17? I want to drop completely out of the 1st and gather a bunch of 2nd round picks. That is when the value seems to outway the questions.


I would have no problem moving back several times and ending up with several picks in the second...and maybe a couple extra for the third too:p

[Roy P]

And what the heck do you want at 17? I want to drop completely out of the 1st and gather a bunch of 2nd round picks. That is when the value seems to outway the questions.

I don't know yet who's going to be at #17. If Orakpo is there still at #15, I might not want to trade down. Maybe Vontae Davis at #17, if the Saints don't draft him at #14. Perhaps, BJ Raji is still sitting there or perhaps Aaron Curry or Michael Crabtree. I just don't know right now.

What I do know is that this draft does not appear to have a bunch of guys that meet all of my measurables. There are a lot of questionable players who may or may not make much of themselves. I suppose, that is your reasoning for wanting many 2nd round picks. My problem is, how many of those players we are expecting to be available in the 2nd round, end up being selected in the 1st round.

I've seen Clay Matthews and Donald Brown beginning to move up boards. Lawrence Sidbury should be climbing up shortly. The OC's Unger, Mack, and Woods are moving up. I may have 2nd round picks that I can only use on players like William Moore and Michael Johnson (guys who were 1st rounders, but were bumped down and out). It's still to early to tell. Heck, Rang has the Colts drafting Ziggy Hood in the 1st round now!

[painekiller]

I've seen Clay Matthews and Donald Brown beginning to move up boards. Lawrence Sidbury should be climbing up shortly. The OC's Unger, Mack, and Woods are moving up. I may have 2nd round picks that I can only use on players like William Moore and Michael Johnson (guys who were 1st rounders, but were bumped down and out). It's still to early to tell. Heck, Rang has the Colts drafting Ziggy Hood in the 1st round now!

If there was someway to move around and come out of day one with Clay Matthews and Donald Brown then I would be all for it.

I'm scared we are going to come out of day one with Michael Johnson and William Moore. Two guys who I have said have bigger questions than I am willing to try and answer on day one.

And BTW, I have not been able to see why Ziggy has not been considered a 1st rounder before now.

[gunslinger57]

And BTW, I have not been able to see why Ziggy has not been considered a 1st rounder before now.

Well, I mean, LOOK at him. He's like 3 feet tall, bald, has a huge nose, and no arms that I've ever seen. And that little white dog of his is rediculous.

[painekiller]

Well, I mean, LOOK at him. He's like 3 feet tall, bald, has a huge nose, and no arms that I've ever seen. And that little white dog of his is rediculous.

Good one, I am sure you know this but for some of those who might not, I meant Evander "Ziggy" Hood from Mizzou.

Again that was a good one.

[gunslinger57]

Good one, I am sure you know this but for some of those who might not, I meant Evander "Ziggy" Hood from Mizzou.

Again that was a good one.

Thanks. I'm much more knowledgeable of pro than college ball, so my analysis of most college players is basically either, "Wow, he's pretty good" or "Eh, whatever," but I felt like contributing something to the thread, even if it was just juvenile humor.

[painekiller]

Thanks. I'm much more knowledgeable of pro than college ball, so my analysis of most college players is basically either, "Wow, he's pretty good" or "Eh, whatever," but I felt like contributing something to the thread, even if it was just juvenile humor.

Hey we need all types here, just keep posting. We do not have the volume of bad post here to muddle through so I prefer to play here.

[painekiller]

Did not want to start a new thread for this, did anyone else hear John McClain talk about the electronic timers at the combine? He said they had two of them and one was not working at all and the other was messing up. The scouts don't care so much because they all hand time themselves, but the agents are PO ed, because the league is releasing these slow times as official. So Joe public thinks prospect AB is a bum because he ran a 4.7 when he really was low 4.6.

John also said if the league does not correct the problem he can see less guys running in Indy and waiting for their pro day on their agents orders.

[mussop]

Did not want to start a new thread for this, did anyone else hear John McClain talk about the electronic timers at the combine? He said they had two of them and one was not working at all and the other was messing up. The scouts don't care so much because they all hand time themselves, but the agents are PO ed, because the league is releasing these slow times as official. So Joe public thinks prospect AB is a bum because he ran a 4.7 when he really was low 4.6.

John also said if the league does not correct the problem he can see less guys running in Indy and waiting for their pro day on their agents orders.

I read somewhere that they were .6 slow.

[nunusguy]

The electronic times are always slower than the hand-held or manually timed 40s for obvious reasons. Unless they stay with the "official times" (however they record them), we're left with everybody reporting whatever times they want for their players.

[TexanJedi]

I finally got around to watching the DB drills at the combine and the guys that impressed me most were Malcolm Jenkins, Louis Delmas, Coye Francies, Rashad Johnson, and Bruce Johnson from Miami. Forty times, or rather the timing controversy aside, these guys seemed to have a nose for the ball. I am really intrigued by Bruce Johnson since he does not seem to be too highly regarded, but he ran well and was a natural at the drills moving his hips well and leaping at the right time. Anyone know his projected round? I am starting to think the Texans should take a corner at some point since Dunta may not be here past next season. The Hall and Aso deals have inflated the market and Dunta, with a good season, will want even more than the $23 million guranteed the Texans were offering this year.

I would not touch Vontae Davis, he has no natural corner skills.

[jppaul]

I read somewhere that they were .6 slow.

They seemed awfully slow, but you know that makes Heyward Bey as fast as Chris Johnson.

4.24

Johny Knox then runs a 4.3? and the CB group doesn't look half as bad.

[jppaul]

I

I would not touch Vontae Davis, he has no natural corner skills.

Wooww, hold on a second. That is a bit much right. I will agree with you that Davis relies too much on his athletic ability, but no natural corner skills, thats ridicolous.

[TexanJedi]

Wooww, hold on a second. That is a bit much right. I will agree with you that Davis relies too much on his athletic ability, but no natural corner skills, thats ridicolous.

Maybe it's a bit strong, but I don't like him for the Texans. He is fast, big, and strong no doubt; but compare him to Rogers-Cromartie last year who was taken in the same area Davis is projected, when it comes to natural ball skills, timing his leap and footwork there's no comparison. He is a physical beast like his brother, but is he a football player? I just would not spend the 15 pick on a guy like that. I'd rather wait and take a Darius Butler, Coye Francies, Alphonso Smith, or Steve Smith in round 2 or so.

[mussop]

Maybe it's a bit strong, but I don't like him for the Texans. He is fast, big, and strong no doubt; but compare him to Rogers-Cromartie last year who was taken in the same area Davis is projected, when it comes to natural ball skills, timing his leap and footwork there's no comparison. He is a physical beast like his brother, but is he a football player? I just would not spend the 15 pick on a guy like that. I'd rather wait and take a Darius Butler, Coye Francies, Alphonso Smith, or Steve Smith in round 2 or so.

Darius Butler. Thats all I have to say. ;)

[jppaul]

Maybe it's a bit strong, but I don't like him for the Texans. He is fast, big, and strong no doubt; but compare him to Rogers-Cromartie last year who was taken in the same area Davis is projected, when it comes to natural ball skills, timing his leap and footwork there's no comparison. He is a physical beast like his brother, but is he a football player? I just would not spend the 15 pick on a guy like that. I'd rather wait and take a Darius Butler, Coye Francies, Alphonso Smith, or Steve Smith in round 2 or so.

He is a football player, but I don't disagree with you. Give me Alphonso Smith anytime over Davis. BTW, Sean Smith is what you meant right?

[James]

If BJ Raji slips past Cincinnati (and thats a big IF), what would you guys think of moving up to grab him and create a super-unit on the DL?

[TexanJedi]

He is a football player, but I don't disagree with you. Give me Alphonso Smith anytime over Davis. BTW, Sean Smith is what you meant right?

lol, yeah but I would take Steve Smith too.

[mussop]

If BJ Raji slips past Cincinnati (and thats a big IF), what would you guys think of moving up to grab him and create a super-unit on the DL?

He is one of the players I would move up for. The others are Smith, Curry and Monroe. They are the elite.

[jppaul]

lol, yeah but I would take Steve Smith too.

Hard to tell, seems that there has been a steve smith in every draft since 2002.:D