Robert Ayers, 1st Round Pick

[Roy P]

Today is Valentine's day, so this may sound ridiculous. Of course, this time last year, saying Duane Brown was a 1st round pick was also out of the question.

There are not many real 4-3 DEs in this draft. At the top of the draft there are guys who may be 'pass-rushing specialists' or 3-4 OLBs, but not true DEs for a 4-3. Tyson Jackson, who I've seen drafted by us in Mock drafts, might be more of a 3-4 DE like Chris Canty. Anyway, Ayers has some pass rushing ability and can hold up against the run. Finding Mario's bookend is a priority for the Texans (at least it should be) and I'm not going to be surprised to see the Texans draft him in the 1st round. Can't wait to see him at the Combine working out.

Hopefully, they will be able to trade down like they did last year with Brown.

[nunusguy]

I think it's perfectly reasonable to see a scenario, to even expect Ayers to be taken someplace in the second half of the first round, especially if he has a
good Pro-Day and/or Combine after an impressve Senior Bowl.

[painekiller]

And like I did Brown, I would scream reach if we took him in the 1st round. I man had a good week at the Senior Bowl and he goes from a 3rd/4th rounder to a 1st?

I like the guy, and I would not complain at his being drafted, just not in the 1st.

[idymoe]

My feelings on Brown were that I was really hoping that he would fall to the Texans 3rd round pick, but thought there was no way that would happen. I was surprised when they took him in the 1st, but was happy the Texans got him. I truly believe he would have been taken in the first by San Diego, or another team. In spite of the sacks allowed that everyone talks about, I still like the pick. I think he is further ahead after his first season than Okoye is after his second.

I like what I've seen of Ayers. I would like to see the Texans get him in the second. If the Texans think he won't last until the 2nd, and they want him, so be it, especially if they can trade down in the first and get another pick, as well. There are a few guys, Raji, Brown, that if they were there at 15 and we couldn't trade down, then I definately prefer them. If there were not someone at 15 that would be a no-brainer, I think pretty much everyone after that has as many questionmarks as Ayers.

[Roy P]

And like I did Brown, I would scream reach if we took him in the 1st round. I man had a good week at the Senior Bowl and he goes from a 3rd/4th rounder to a 1st?

I like the guy, and I would not complain at his being drafted, just not in the 1st.

That is my feeling as well. Which is why the thought occurred to me. It is apparent that 3rd round picks before the Senior bowl can become 1st round picks come draft day. Hell, during the season I was excited to see Aaron Curry listed as a 3rd round prospect only to see him now as a top 5 guy.

Ayers has steadily picked up steam from mock drafts and has been given a 1-2 listing by DraftScout.com and #35 overall. He is their "hottest" riser on the "who's hot" list. THR has him ranked #47 on their 2 Feb board up 35 slots from their previous ranking. DB has given him a 1st round ranking on his talent board, ahead of Michael Johnson (who he rates as a 3rd rounder). Anyone who knows Boylhart realizes that he doesn't care what anybody thinks, and only goes by game film.

Personally, I would love to have him in the third and would be content if we got him in the second round. In my mind, he has a lot to prove and would be a reach in the 1st round. However, there is a problem with this draft in terms of supply and demand for a position of need. At best, I could see him playing like Tamba Hali and the Chiefs drafted him #20 in 2006 but, at worst, he could be more like Jovan Haye drafted in the 6th round at #189 by the Panthers.

This will sound like a crazy idea, and I have to admit it wasn't mine, but drafting Peria Jerry to play RDE might be a better option. Boylhart compares him to a young Bruce Smith, which might be a bit of hyperbole to say the least. I could see him as a cross between Tommie Harris and Charles Grant, which wouldn't be bad to have opposite of Mario Williams.

[painekiller]

This will sound like a crazy idea, and I have to admit it wasn't mine, but drafting Peria Jerry to play RDE might be a better option. Boylhart compares him to a young Bruce Smith, which might be a bit of hyperbole to say the least. I could see him as a cross between Tommie Harris and Charles Grant, which wouldn't be bad to have opposite of Mario Williams.

My initial thought was Jerry is only 6-3, would he be long enough? But then I looked at Weaver, he is also 6-3. Wing span will be an issue, especial at RDE, OLT all have long arms and a RDE needs to be able compete.

It is an interesting thought, BTW I think you would want to make Jerry the LDE, the one over the RT, and leave Mario as the RDE. Also then grabbing someone later like Lawrence Sidbury or even Phillip Hunt U of H to be the pass rushing guy. Mario moves to the LDE and Jerry would go to DT and the specialist would come in on passing downs. It is a thought.

[Roy P]

BTW I think you would want to make Jerry the LDE, the one over the RT, and leave Mario as the RDE.

Sorry, that's what I meant. I'm always thinking from the QB postion. When I said RDE, I was referring to the DE opposite the RT, which as you point out is the LDE.

Anyway, I've often thought that Tommie Harris would do a lot more and wouldn't get injured as much if he were out on the edge. If he played at 280lbs, he'd be a beast.

I'm keeping this Jerry idea on the backburner for now. I want to see how he times at the Combine. Ideally, the numbers I'm looking for are 1.68 - 10 yard split, 4.32 - Short Shuttle, and 7.40 - Cone. For explosion I want to see at least a 34" Vertical and a 9' 6" Long Jump. If Peria can get into that range, then I would definitely contemplate drafting him to be my DE.

Also, I am not giving up on the idea of going after a trade or some kind of pick up in the FA market. Jeremy Thompson of Green Bay, Jeremy Mincey of Jacksonville, or Jovan Haye of Tampa Bay as possible targets.

As for this draft's late round pass rushing guy, I've got me eye on Eastern Illinois DE Pierre Walters.

[gunslinger57]

I'm keeping this Jerry idea on the backburner for now. I want to see how he times at the Combine. Ideally, the numbers I'm looking for are 1.68 - 10 yard split, 4.32 - Short Shuttle, and 7.40 - Cone. For explosion I want to see at least a 34" Vertical and a 9' 6" Long Jump. If Peria can get into that range, then I would definitely contemplate drafting him to be my DE.

Dammit, I always thought I could have at least had a shot at the league given a chance. The vert and broad were almost exactly what I had coming out of college at 265-270 lbs back in the day. Never could get the top end speed to get a good 40 time though, which killed me (I think my best ever 40 time was a mid to high 4.8). Of course, playing at a D3 school it's not like I had strength and conditioning coaches who could nitpick my time down. Ah well.

As for Ayers, I have a philisophical problem with taking one of the "fast risers" that come on after the season. Measureables are all fine and dandy, but thinking like that is what gets you Mike Mamula at #7. I'd rather take a guy who measures out well but has a track record for production then take a guy who "has all the tools" but hasn't put it all together.

[mussop]

My initial thought was Jerry is only 6-3, would he be long enough? But then I looked at Weaver, he is also 6-3. Wing span will be an issue, especial at RDE, OLT all have long arms and a RDE needs to be able compete.

It is an interesting thought, BTW I think you would want to make Jerry the LDE, the one over the RT, and leave Mario as the RDE. Also then grabbing someone later like Lawrence Sidbury or even Phillip Hunt U of H to be the pass rushing guy. Mario moves to the LDE and Jerry would go to DT and the specialist would come in on passing downs. It is a thought.

This is interesting. I have been thinking lately about Okoye at DE. In fact I posted this on another MB the other day. Its really just a fantasy but I would love to see us try it.

A few simple steps could fix our D. Sounds crazy huh? Well here it is my crazy plan.

Sign Haynesworth as a FA.

In the first round draft BJ Raji. I know he probably wont be there at 15 thats ok I have a plan. If he is drafted before us offer that team our first plus Travis Johnson for Raji. If they arent interested in TJ throw in our 3rd which should be adeqaute.

Trade Travis Johnson if wasnt involved in trade up. Im not as down on him as most but he just doesnt fit so I take any pick 4th or better.

In the 2nd round draft the best speedy OLB available. Clay Matthews or Clint Sintim or Tyrone McKenzie. One of them should be available.
In the 3rd round Draft Jarron Gilbert San Jose St DE.
In the 4th round Draft WR Jarrett Dillard, 5-10, 185, Rice
In the 5th round draft James Casey Rice TE
In the 6th round draft Sammie Lee Hill Stillman DT34 DT43
In the 7th round draft Gartrell Johnson, RB, Colorado State

Depth Chart Defense

LDE Amobi Okoye DelJuan Robinson Tim Bulman
DT BJ Raji Frank Okam
NT Haynesworth Sammie Lee Hill
RDE Mario Williams Jarron Gilbert Jesse Nading
OLB Xavier Adibi Clay Matthews? Kevin Bentley Chaun Thompson
MLB DeMeco Ryans Kevin Bentley
LCB Jacques Reeves Fred Bennett David Pittman
RCB Dunta Robinson DeMarcus Faggins Matterral Richardson
SS Nick Ferguson Brandon Harrison Dominique Barber
FS Eugene Wilson Will Demps

Take the 3/4 NT's responsibilities and the philosophy of the position and apply it in a 4/3 with both DT's. Why not have 2 guys in the middle that can command double teams? This frees up both ends to go 1 on 1 witht Tackles. I believe Okoye could thrive here. This front gives us 4 players capable of getting to the QB allowing Demeco Ryans and 2 speedy OLB's to blitz with off the edge and run down plays, our D would be Texan tough.

I know CRAZY huh? Well Im not finished yet. Next year In the 1st round My Houston Texans draft Terrance "Mount" Cody DT Alabama. Now thats CRAZY!!:eek:

[nunusguy]

This will sound like a crazy idea, and I have to admit it wasn't mine, but drafting Peria Jerry to play RDE might be a better option. Boylhart compares him to a young Bruce Smith, which might be a bit of hyperbole to say the least. I could see him as a cross between Tommie Harris and Charles Grant, which wouldn't be bad to have opposite of Mario Williams.

But isn't that what a lot of people said about Okoye when he came out ?
He was in the 280s at the Senior Bowl when he played very well, flashed and alot of people went on and on about his quickness and athleticism.
I remember seeing his spin move in the week of SB practice and being reminded of Dwight Freeney. Apparently Rick Smith was to ?

[Roy P]

But isn't that what a lot of people said about Okoye when he came out ?

Apparently Rick Smith was to ?

Nobody was suggesting that Okoye should or would play DE. He was a 3-Technique DT that may grow into a NT. Drafting the youngest player in the NFL meant that we were not seeing anything close to the final product. We saw that he had athleticism, but perhaps as he matured under the supervision of NFL coaches and trainers, he might grow into a Pat Williams.

I think the worst they thought they would be getting is a pass rushing DT to put pressure on the QB. The best case scenario was a larger run stuffer who still had the athleticism of a lighter version of himself. Many times when you see scouting projections of a player you will come across the phrase, "has the frame to add more bulk while maintaining quickness and agility" and that was the case for Amobi.

I'm actually proposing the opposite with Jerry. I would like to see him slim down and lose some of the bulk around his belly in hopes that it would add to his quickness. I would then use him much like the Chiefs have employed Turk McBride in Kansas City.

[jppaul]

We saw that he had athleticism, but perhaps as he matured under the supervision of NFL coaches and trainers, he might grow into a Pat Williams.

I think Okoye would have to eat Jesse Nading to grow into Pat Williams. You meant Kevin right?:D

[Roy P]

According to the Vikings site.

Kevin Williams 6' 5" 311lbs
Pat Williams 6' 3" 317lbs

According to the Texans site.

Amobi Okoye 6' 2" 306lbs.

So, I meant Pat Williams because it's easier to eat on weight than it is to add height.

[jppaul]

Your kidding right there is not a chance pay Williams is 317 lbs. 376 at least

[dalemurphy]

According to the Vikings site.

Kevin Williams 6' 5" 311lbs
Pat Williams 6' 3" 317lbs

According to the Texans site.

Amobi Okoye 6' 2" 306lbs.

So, I meant Pat Williams because it's easier to eat on weight than it is to add height.

Man, I don't know that a series of numerals have ever made me laugh that hard!

[Roy P]

Your kidding right there is not a chance pay Williams is 317 lbs. 376 at least

My assumption is that at one time, maybe 1997, Pat Williams was 317lbs. I mean, Casy Hampton was 314lbs at his Combine. The Steelers' web site has him listed at 321lbs, which I'd assume is probably an understatement.

Anyway, my point was the Texans nor anyone else knew what Okoye would eventually become. It's difficult to determine what a 300lbs 19-year old will grow into.

[jppaul]

My assumption is that at one time, maybe 1997, Pat Williams was 317lbs. I mean, Casy Hampton was 314lbs at his Combine. The Steelers' web site has him listed at 321lbs, which I'd assume is probably an understatement.

Anyway, my point was the Texans nor anyone else knew what Okoye would eventually become. It's difficult to determine what a 300lbs 19-year old will grow into.

Ok. I see what you are trying to say.

[painekiller]

According to the Vikings site.

Kevin Williams 6' 5" 311lbs
Pat Williams 6' 3" 317lbs

According to the Texans site.

Amobi Okoye 6' 2" 306lbs.

So, I meant Pat Williams because it's easier to eat on weight than it is to add height.

306 lbs? That might be some of the problem. They asked him go sideways and hold a blocker, maybe Bush will get his weight back under 300, and allow him to up field. He did show flashes toward the end of the season.

[NBT]

I rather like DE Paul Kruger from Utah, and wonder how he will do in the Combine.

[Roy P]

I rather like DE Paul Kruger from Utah, and wonder how he will do in the Combine.

You think he'll be a 1st round pick? I think there's a good possibility if he runs a 4.65 - 40. 4.25 - Shuttle, and 7.25 - Cone. He looks like Chris Long but Long posted these numbers 4.75, 4.21, 7.02; AND he had a long productive career at UVA. Oh yeah, his dad's Howie.

I really wish I had seen Kruger play more in college to get a better feel for him. I get the fact that he's Mormon and did the mission thing, but it kind of messes up my evaluation. Maybe after seeing him do some drills at Indy, I'll move him up above Ayers.

[NBT]

There you go again Rp. I never said Kruger would be a first round pick, I just said I wonder how he will do in the Combine. After that, he very well could be a first.

[Roy P]

Well, that's ok. Just making an observation.

[Roy P]

I noticed that Mike Mayock posted his top 20 going into the Combine. Ayers is #12 and Maybin is #15.

[nunusguy]

I recorded the Rose Bowl, Cotton Bowl, BCS Bowl, etc. on my U-Verse but regret didn't the Sugar Bowl so I can't go back and watch Kruger play. But I dunno if he had much of a game anyway as his team got something like 7 sacks vs 'Bama but he struck out in that category.
Does he have that burst off the edge ? If not he's just another version of Weaver IMO, and that's not what we need.

[TexanJedi]

Ayers is listed at 270 and seems to be much more of a true 4-3 end, unlike Orakpo, Brown or Maybin. According to "the general" :rolleyes:, the Texans want a big defensive end opposite Mario who will not be a liability against the run. Ayers, Kruger, Johnson, and maybe Tyson Jackson could fit. I would be concerned that Jackson is just a younger Weaver with better size though.

[painekiller]

Ayers is listed at 270 and seems to be much more of a true 4-3 end, unlike Orakpo, Brown or Maybin. According to "the general" :rolleyes:, the Texans want a big defensive end opposite Mario who will not be a liability against the run. Ayers, Kruger, Johnson, and maybe Tyson Jackson could fit. I would be concerned that Jackson is just a younger Weaver with better size though.

And if you listen to Kubiak answer questions at the combine, on the official site, you will hear McClain trying to confirm his reports that Mario is a RDE. Well Kubiak and Smith both said Mario can play either side, so they are not limited. So again McClain doesn't have a clue.

In fact Smith talks about how good a class of OLBs who can play RDE it is.

John is trying to act like a draft expert now and I am sorry but we have a group of guys here with a much better grasp on the draft then he has.

[mussop]

And if you listen to Kubiak answer questions at the combine, on the official site, you will hear McClain trying to confirm his reports that Mario is a RDE. Well Kubiak and Smith both said Mario can play either side, so they are not limited. So again McClain doesn't have a clue.

In fact Smith talks about how good a class of OLBs who can play RDE it is.

John is trying to act like a draft expert now and I am sorry but we have a group of guys here with a much better grasp on the draft then he has.

I have to agree with McClain on this one. In Kubiacks tenure when have we gone after a smaller faster DE? We have Weaver 270, Cachran 287 and Bullman 275 who have taken the majority of the snaps. I jsut dont think philosophically a small DE that isnt really good in run support is in our plans. Remember for all the talk about improving our pass rush we havent exactly been good at shutting down the run. And adding one of these pass rush specialist everyone seems to want isnt going to help us get better in that department.

[jppaul]

I could be wrong but isn't Nading smaller, and Kalu wasn't he in the 250s

[painekiller]

I have to agree with McClain on this one. In Kubiacks tenure when have we gone after a smaller faster DE? We have Weaver 270, Cachran 287 and Bullman 275 who have taken the majority of the snaps. I jsut dont think philosophically a small DE that isnt really good in run support is in our plans. Remember for all the talk about improving our pass rush we havent exactly been good at shutting down the run. And adding one of these pass rush specialist everyone seems to want isnt going to help us get better in that department.

And when have we had the opportunity to grab a speed rusher? Last years draft fell in such a way that we did not draft a DE, so they sign Rosevelt Colvin. He just did not work out.

Don't side with McClain, you will be wrong more than you are right. Plus you know more than McClain.

[mussop]

And when have we had the opportunity to grab a speed rusher? Last years draft fell in such a way that we did not draft a DE, so they sign Rosevelt Colvin. He just did not work out.

Don't side with McClain, you will be wrong more than you are right. Plus you know more than McClain.

Youre right about Colvin. Forgot about him.


I would take that as a compliment if I didnt know how little you think of McClain.:D

[painekiller]

Youre right about Colvin. Forgot about him.


I would take that as a compliment if I didnt know how little you think of McClain.:D

It was a compliment, John McClain is a nationally recognized NFL reporter.

[jppaul]

McCLain has D-bag tatooed on his forehead. To be honest though I am surprised someone hasn't clubbed him like a harp seal yet...only a matter of time I suppose.

[nunusguy]

The NFLNetworks Mike Mayoc, who I regard as a real authority on evaluating football talent, has stated that Paul Kruger "holds the edge" (is solid against running plays) but lacks a real burst as a pass-rusher. That's good enough for me to mark this guy off of our list of possible solutions to help our deficiency of putting pressure on QBs.
The last thing we need is to expend a first-day pick on a player who will be just another guy when it comes to pass-rushing. I say spend a top pick, even a first rounder, on a real speed guy off of the edge who can really press QBs even if he's just on the field in passing situations.