[Speculation] Should the Texans Make a Trade for an Experienced (and Light) DE?

[Keith]

Not sure I want to start a new thread on a speculated trade of my own creation, but if the Texans wanted an instant impact DE on the smaller side, maybe they could consider giving the Packers a call about Aaron Kampman.

The Packers just hired Dom Capers (yes, him) as their DC, and the team will be using the 3-4 much more now. Sorta makes Kampman an odd fit since his effectiveness as an OLB in that scheme is unknown.

Kampman (6'4" 265) was a 5th round pick in 2002, and he was a Pro Bowler in 2006 and 2007, registering 27.5 sacks. Last year, he had 9.5 sacks through the first three months of the season and threw up a 0 in December.

He is signed through 2009 and turns 30 this November. From what I know of him though, he seems like a decent fellow and someone who could be lethal opposite Mario for the next couple years.

Anyway, seems like if the Packers were ever going to trade him, now might be that time. I wonder if he'd be worth a 2nd, which is what I would guess the asking price would be, at least, in spite of his age and contract. Might be interesting to consider trading a f-tagged Dunta Robinson for him if you're someone comfortable with Bennett, Reeves, and Molden (and maybe a rookie?) under the new coaching regime on defense.

[NBT]

Kampman has been good but the Packers will want a first round draft choice for him IMO. Too much for a player 30 yrs old in his twilight years.

[papabear]

I wonder if he'd be worth a 2nd, which is what I would guess the asking price would be, at least, in spite of his age and contract.


I'm not sure if my mind could handle trading away another second round pick...and I would guess there would be a couple of people around here even more upset than me.

[Keith]

I'm not sure if my mind could handle trading away another second round pick...and I would guess there would be a couple of people around here even more upset than me.

Yeah, costs something to get something. Can't say as though I am advocating it, just something I was thinking about in light of our new DL coach.

A second rounder isn't assured to bring success, but given the team's recent draft record, I wouldn't want to bet against them either. It's one reason why I might consider dangling someone else like Dunta instead of a pick. Dunta would be reunited with Capers if traded to Green Bay.

Kampman is getting up there, but some people seem able to ignore that age a little bit for Peppers. Also, consider that John Abraham maybe just posted his best season ever for the Falcons, six months or so older than Kampman.

And as good as the Texans may be at drafting, it is still a risky business. Kampman's value is bit easier to forecast in the short-term. Drafting young D-lineman is hard, and even if they work out, they often take years to develop. Does Kubiak have the luxury of time still like when he took other DLs like Mario and Amobi?

[TexanJedi]

Rick Smith should inquire about Denver's plans for Elvis Dumervil.

[nunusguy]

Rick Smith should inquire about Denver's plans for Elvis Dumervil.

After Shannys demise in Denver, haven't Smith & Kubiak lost their Bronco contacts ?

[mussop]

After Shannys demise in Denver, haven't Smith & Kubiak lost their Bronco contacts ?

Yes but Denver like Green Bay is switching to a 3/4. So keiths scenerio also fits Dumerville.

[jcp]

... It's one reason why I might consider dangling someone else like Dunta instead of a pick. Dunta would be reunited with Capers if traded to Green Bay....?


Maybe I'm nuts but there is NO way I'd give up Dunta. He is by far our best DB... even playing on one leg, and that's probably our weakest position. Now if you can bamboozle somebody into taking Reeves contract...

If we can pick up a piece of the puzzle for cheap (4th-7th) in a trade for a guy who doesn't fit where they're at anymore (like Myers last year) then I'm okay with that. But it better be serious impact if I'm giving up a 1,2 or 3...and i just don't think we're at a place talentwise where we can afford to give up one of our best. (I wouldn't trade Dunta straight up for Peppers is how extreme I'd take that...and I'd love Peppers here)

-Pea

[popanot]

Other than for salary cap reasons, I can not think of a sound reason why someone would give up Drob as opposed to a #2 draft pick in a trade for a DE. Isn't DRob worth more to this team than a #2 gamble? At least we know what we have with DRob and I can't imagine a #2 CB would come in and produce what DR does any time soon. Maybe he would, but it's no guarantee. I'd give up a #2 for Dumerville or Kampman in a heartbeat.

[Keith]

Pea and popanot are right, of course. I have been a huge proponent of re-signing Dunta more than most, so I'm not trying to push him out the door. I suppose it's a scenario in which Dunta's demands are really too high and Bush's scheme relies less on Dunta's skills at CB. As with most speculated offseason trade whimsy, just trying to think a little too creatively.

And Dumervil fits the mold of the thread, too. At 25, he is a lot younger than Kampman. He's playing out his rookie contract in 2009.

[papabear]

This is what scares me about this offseason. The general consensus is that we're close. I agree with that 100%, but what scares me is that we think we are closer than we really are. I'm worried we start to reach to get that one guy to put us over the top, and it ends up setting us back.

Dumerville, Kampman, and I'm sure many others would get me very excited...but if we give up too much and they don't work out....well we are probably starting all over again with a new scheme and coach.

[Joshua]

This is what scares me about this offseason. The general consensus is that we're close. I agree with that 100%, but what scares me is that we think we are closer than we really are.


Watching the AFC Championship game and how the Ravens and Steelers were just destroying each other on seemingly every play, I began to think we are not as close as we think. Both teams bring a level of physicality, intensity and intimidation that I don't think we're ready to compete against. Reminded me of why both of these teams mopped the floor with us.

[popanot]

I don't think we're that close, but I also don't think we should make drastic or sweeping changes. I wouldn't have a problem parting ways with a single (1) draft pick (preferably a #2 or less) for a player of Dumerville or Kampman's talent. I don't see that as a 'selling the farm' or a 'we're one player away' type move, because I think they'd give us a 3 or 4 years of quality service. About the same amount of time as a rookie contract - and they're a known commodity.

[Keith]

The general consensus is that we're close. I agree with that 100%, but what scares me is that we think we are closer than we really are.

Two words: Arizona Cardinals.

I understand they're from a different conference, but they underscore that sometimes the magic can happen.

As for the Steelers and Ravens (and to a lesser extent, the Titans), they're proof still that having a solid-to-spectacular defense is still the best way to make it deep into the playoffs. A concerted focus this offseason by the Texans to improve the defense is needed, and getting the right coaching staff in place has been step #1.

And we're entering Year Four of Kubiak. I'm as optimistic as ever for his success here, but it's time for results or we will be starting over soon anyway.

[HPF Bob]

The trade idea is a good thought but I'm guessing the Packers would want more in return than we are willing to give up. I doubt they'll realize until next July that some of their players may not fit a 3-4.

From what I am reading about Denver, they are not *switching* to a 3-4 but are planning to incorporate some 3-4 looks into their defense since they are low on good DLs and better on good LBs. But Dumervil would certainly not fit 3-4 (heck, he's barely a 4-3 DE as it is) and needs to be in only in passing situations since he simply lacks to size to succeed against the run.

As for using Dunta as trade bait, I think both the Broncos and the Packers are fairly well-set at the corners although both could use upgrades at safety (as do we). I can't see them valuing a player like Dunta as much as some other teams that are hurting for CBs.

[nunusguy]

Two words: Arizona Cardinals.


Two teams: Tennessee & Indy. Do you really think the Cardinals would be any better than third place in the AFC Central either ?
We can win 10 or 11 games (look at the Pats), but fail to make the playoffs if we can't atleast go 500 in our own division. What we have to do is consistantly split (or better) with those guys, so whatever that takes ?

[Warren]

I'd be surprised if the Broncos were willing to part with Dumervil before giving him a long look at one or more of the LBs spots in their 3-4. He's been too productive (before last year when he was playing with a hand injury) for them to part with unless they were to get a lot in return.

When he was coming out of Louisville I thought his best fit might be as a 3-4 ILB because his lack of height (5'11") wouldn't be as big of a negative inside and unlike most undersized DEs he uses more power and leverage than speed and quickness to defeat blocks, which would also seem to work better inside. Since he's been in Denver, though, he's shown that even though he's short he has long enough arms to match up with NFL OTs and the explosive burst of a pass rusher. He and DJ Williams could make a nice pair of bookend 3-4 OLBs if they keep him outside.

[nunusguy]

I'd be surprised if the Broncos were willing to part with Dumervil before giving him a long look at one or more of the LBs spots in their 3-4. He's been too productive (before last year when he was playing with a hand injury) for them to part with unless they were to get a lot in return.

When he was coming out of Louisville I thought his best fit might be as a 3-4 ILB because his lack of height (5'11") wouldn't be as big of a negative inside and unlike most undersized DEs he uses more power and leverage than speed and quickness to defeat blocks, which would also seem to work better inside. Since he's been in Denver, though, he's shown that even though he's short he has long enough arms to match up with NFL OTs and the explosive burst of a pass rusher. He and DJ Williams could make a nice pair of bookend 3-4 OLBs if they keep him outside.

If Dumervil was a good 4-3 DE, he might be an even better 3-4 OLB ? His body type is not that much different than Joey Porter and James Harrison, who've both been known to have some success as 3-4 OLBs.

[cadams]

Two teams: Tennessee & Indy. Do you really think the Cardinals would be any better than third place in the AFC Central either ?
We can win 10 or 11 games (look at the Pats), but fail to make the playoffs if we can't atleast go 500 in our own division. What we have to do is consistantly split (or better) with those guys, so whatever that takes ?

Indy is going to take a step back nest year. Their defense has always been sub par, and they have a new coach who is going to implement a new system. I predict that indy is no better than a 9 win team next year. As for the titans, I am not all that worried about them next year either. Haynesworth will either leave or get a long term deal. If he leaves that defense will be in trouble, if he gets a long term deal I bet his motor slows down a bit. If their defense can't keep teams under 17 points they will have to rely on the pass a lot more than they will want to, and Collins won't have another season like the did this year (which really wasn't spectacular, just mostly mistake-free), and if VY ends up starting they will have a hard time making 9 wins as well.

I am not saying the Texans are one piece away yet, but I don't think the division will be as tough next year as you do. I actually think Jacksonville could bounce back some, those two defensive ends, who were rookies this season, should take steps forward this coming season.

[da Bull]

Just to stir the pot some. If I recall, Lance Lierlein commented in his blog that the Broncos had less than desirable defensive tackles. Since they're switching to a 3/4 maybe they could use a d-tackle drafted to play in the 3/4, such as Travis Johnson. Admittedly, he hasn't played up to his draft position but most of his career he's played in a 4/3 (Richard Smith's) which may not have schemed to his strengths. Also, Dumervil may not project to do as well in a stand-up position...could there be a win/win situation here?

[HPF Bob]

Well, except that a 3-4 DT is supposed to be a bloated hog who clogs up traffic. In fact, the primary purpose of the d-line in a 3-4 is be like those big concrete boulders they put in front of department stores to keep thieves from driving through the glass doors. If you get any pass rush from them, so much the better. While Travis Johnson hasn't supplied much of a pass rush, he hasn't exactly been an unmovable boulder either.

[barrett]

wasn't TJ drafted as a 3-4 DE? I know he wasn't taken to play NT.

[papabear]

wasn't TJ drafted as a 3-4 DE? I know he wasn't taken to play NT.

Nope...pretty sure he was Supposed to play NT...which is why everyone was shocked when we drafted him. He was known more as a 1 gap type DT in college. IF we actually free up our lineman he should benefit. Could be a decent end in a 3-4 maybe. He is what he is at this point. average at best DT.

[barrett]

Nope...pretty sure he was Supposed to play NT...which is why everyone was shocked when we drafted him. He was known more as a 1 gap type DT in college. IF we actually free up our lineman he should benefit. Could be a decent end in a 3-4 maybe. He is what he is at this point. average at best DT.

I know he was a DT in college but I'm pretty sure he was not taken as a NT. The best I could find was this chronicle article from his first training camp.

"Defensive end Travis Johnson, who's learning both sides and moves inside to play tackle in a four-man front, is a work in progress. "

http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=2005_3897218

This is exactly how I remember it. They drafted him and intended to make him a rotation player with Smith and Walker at 3-4 DE on 1st and 2nd down, and then moved him inside to DT a lot to replace Payne as a pass rusher on 3rd down.

Either way nobody ever saw Travis Johnson as a 3-4 nose, and nobody is going to now.

[papabear]

Either way nobody ever saw Travis Johnson as a 3-4 nose, and nobody is going to now.

I seem to remember him as being a NT then too, but maybe it was just on passing downs. Then at least there was a chance he might grow into....now, no one would buy him being a 3-4 nose.

[Roy P]

Kampman has been good but the Packers will want a first round draft choice for him IMO. Too much for a player 30 yrs old in his twilight years.

I wonder if the Packers would take a 7th round pick for Jeremy Thompson. He's definitely a 4-3 DE that they traded up for in the 4th round last year to get. Perhaps now, he's expendable.

[Warren]

Any interest in Antwan Peek for this role? The Browns just cut him. Assuming he's healthy (he missed the '08 season with a knee injury), I'd be okay with signing him on the cheap (maybe with some performance incentives) to compete for playing time as a nickel rusher. Maybe the new coaches (he's never played for Bush or Kollar) and the fear of his NFL career slipping away could overcome his knuckleheadedness.

[mussop]

Any interest in Antwan Peek for this role? The Browns just cut him. Assuming he's healthy (he missed the '08 season with a knee injury), I'd be okay with signing him on the cheap (maybe with some performance incentives) to compete for playing time as a nickel rusher. Maybe the new coaches (he's never played for Bush or Kollar) and the fear of his NFL career slipping away could overcome his knuckleheadedness.

I was thinking the same thing.

According to McClain we arent looking for a "light" DE.