Who will be available at 15?

[mussop]

I believe these players will be gone.

1 Sam Bradford
2 Andre Smith
3 Matthew Stafford
4 Michael Crabtree
5 Chris Wells
6 Michael Oher
7 Vontae Davis
8 Eugene Monroe
9 Malcolm Jenkins
10 Brian Orakpo
11 Aaron Curry
12 Rey Maualaga
13 Taylor Mays
14 B.J. Raji
15 ???????


I would be happy with any of the bolded players falling. If I had to choose from whats left and trading down wasnt an option I think several players would make alot of sense here.


Defensive players left


Brandon Spikes LB 6-2, 245 Florida
James Laurinaitis LB 6-2, 245 Ohio State

MLB not really a need.

Clint Sintim OLB 6-2, 255 Virginia

He would start and be an upgrade.

Alphonso Smith CB 5-9, 195 Wake Forest
D.J. Moore CB 5-10, 182 Vanderbilt

Dont think either one of them would make that big of a difference.

Will Moore FS 6-0, 230 Missouri (X)

Would start and be an upgrade.

Sen'Derrick Marks DT 6-1, 290 Auburn
Jeria Jerry DT 6-2, 290 Mississippi

Depends on who get for DC as to whether they would be a fit.

Michael Johnson DE 6-6, 250 Georgia Tech
Greg Hardy DE 6-4, 265 Mississippi (O)
Aaron Maybin DE 6-3, 235 Penn State
Everette Bown DE 6-3, 250 Florida State

Definatly a need position but are any of them good enough against the run??? Any of them would be better than what we have now.

Offensive players left

Jermaine Grisham TE 6-5, 256 Oklahoma
Brandon Pettigrew TE 6-5, 260 Oklahoma State
Chase Coffman TE 6-5, 245 Missouri

Not a need position but any of these guys would be a big plus in the red zone.

Percy Harvin WR 5-10, 180 Florida (X)
Darrius Heyward-Bey WR 6-1, 206 Maryland
Jeremy Maclin WR 6-0, 200 Missouri

Not a need position but adding another explosive player like one of these guys could make our O elite.

Alex Mack OC 6-4, 315 California

Would come in and start right away and play at a high level for many years.

Knowshon Moreno RB 5-10, 207 Georgia
Leshon McCoy RB 5-11, 215 Pittsburg

Lot of teams have 2 good backs now.

Jamon Meredith OT 6-5, 310 South Carolina
Alex Boone OT 6-7, 312 Ohio State
Jason Smith OT 6-4, 300 Baylor

You can never have too many quality OT 's.


Who would you pick?

[popanot]

I certainly wouldn't pick a TE at 15. A LB wouldn't be a bad pick, but I'd probably go Moore, DE, and then LB if they all rated about the same. I think there will be some good RB prospects in the 3rd and 4th rounds so I would not go that route in Rd.1. I like both Mack and Max Unger so I'm holding out hope one of them will be there in Rd.2.

[gunn]

If we have an attacking scheme on defense... there's not a doubt in my mind that Everette Brown is the best player that you have listed there at a position of need. To me, he is the top defensive end in this draft, and I think that he eventually ends up drafted in the top 10 and possibly in the top 5 of this draft.

[jppaul]

God, that sucks. I vote trade down.

[teufelhunden]

I guess out of the choices you left I would go with Moore. We need a safety in a bad way. Mays being gone Moore is the alternative. We need a DE and I would like to see Everette Brown across from Mario but as someone else said I do not think he will be on the board at 15.

For the RB Shonn Greene is my choice for the Texans, but not in the first round.

[NBT]

God, that sucks. I vote trade down.

But to what slot? And who would be available there? Not a bad idea though, depending on who was there at #15. This year because of the collecting bargaining agreement opt out, there are going to be a slew of juniors coming out.

[mussop]

I certainly wouldn't pick a TE at 15. A LB wouldn't be a bad pick, but I'd probably go Moore, DE, and then LB if they all rated about the same. I think there will be some good RB prospects in the 3rd and 4th rounds so I would not go that route in Rd.1. I like both Mack and Max Unger so I'm holding out hope one of them will be there in Rd.2.

Why not a TE at 15 if he is the BAP and you know for the most part he is going to be a very good player. What happens to our O if Daniels goes down? Plus having 2 really good TE's can only help in the red zone. Im not saying that is what we should do but that we shouldnt just eliminate the option.

Ill take alot of heat for this too but I would take Mack at 15 without hesitation. The guy is probably the most NFL ready player in this draft and the center position is undervalued IMO. Those 3rd and short plays become alot less stressfull with him in there instead of Myers. If Mack or Unger (one of my favorite players in this draft) are available in the second I will cry if we dont pick em.


God, that sucks. I vote trade down.

Now that Mays has decided to stay in school it even looks worse. My bet is Everette Bown DE 6-3, 250 Florida State or Jeria Jerry DT 6-2, 290 Mississippi will now be off the board at 15.

The problem with trading down is everyone is looking at the available talent and saying the same thing. From 15 to rd 2 the talent level is pretty much the same. Its going to be real hard to find anyone who wants to trade up to 15.

[mussop]

Now that Bush has been named DC and says "everyone will be playing upfield. we won't be playing sideways". and describes his philosiphy as an attacking style that makes plays.

So knowing taht and looking at the players left scenerio Brown may be the guy that we covet. I still want Raji more than any other player in this draft but I wouldnt mind Brown if we really are going to attack the offense more.

[popanot]

Why not a TE at 15 if he is the BAP and you know for the most part he is going to be a very good player. Because our defense has sucked since forever and we can get a backup/insurance for OD in the later rounds or through FA rather than using our 1rst round pick on one. Actually, I have no problem with Dreessen as OD's backup and feel we could find another servicable TE or incorporate other offensive options if we got in a bind during the season.

As for Mack, I'd be OK with that pick. Center is definitely a primary weakness on this team. I think I'd still go D though if I had 3 or 4 offensive/defensive players rated about the same.

[papabear]

Why not a TE at 15 if he is the BAP and you know for the most part he is going to be a very good player. What happens to our O if Daniels goes down? Plus having 2 really good TE's can only help in the red zone. Im not saying that is what we should do but that we shouldnt just eliminate the option.



I don't think you should just not consider a position (other than QB) because of who we have, but there does need to be a balance between need and best player available. If the team has a TE rated significantly higher than what else is left, then yes it should take him. If he's in a group of similarly rated players, well then you have to look at need as part of that decision. I think Dreesen is very solid as our second TE. His blocking is OK and he's capable of making a play in the passing game. He's much more versatile than Bruener. I think we could manage with Dreesen if OD went down for a few games.

[HPF Bob]

Mays staying in school really hurts because he was my second choice after his teammate Maululuga. The bright side is there will be a few unknowns that will ace their combines and shoot up the draft board that we haven't heard of yet. Remember Demarcus Ware? He was going to be a second-round sleeper, then a late first, then a mid-first and wound up being taken at #10? Heck, Mario Williams shot up draft boards the year he was chosen. There was no buzz about the guy in mid-January. It was all Bush, Leinart and VY.

So, don't sweat it right now. There's a lot that can change.

[barrett]

But to what slot? And who would be available there? Not a bad idea though, depending on who was there at #15. This year because of the collecting bargaining agreement opt out, there are going to be a slew of juniors coming out.

This is not true at all. Roger Goodell personally made calls to many top NCAA coaches to make personal assurances that there will be no rookie cap by 2010 so there is no reason for juniors to come out this year based on Salary or CBA concerns. He chalked the whole thing up to unscrupulous agents trying to entice kids into coming out early.

[Maninthebox]

If an elite pass rusher worthy of the pick (maybe E. Brown?) is there, I think you go that route. I really wanted Mays here, but oh well. He probably would have been gone anyway. If W. Moore is the real deal at safety, I would give him a long look because I think pass rush specialists will be available in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. It's great for us that so many sophomore and junior ends are coming out. I'm also wondering if we'll look at DT at any point. Not overwhelmed by TJ, Okam and D. Robinson, although Robinson looked very good in stretches, especially for an UFA.

PS If RB Shonn Greene falls to us in the 3rd, I think we HAVE to take him.

[NBT]

Barret, we will just have to see how many juniors come out, I guess.

[painekiller]

PS If RB Shonn Greene falls to us in the 3rd, I think we HAVE to take him.

You do realize how old he is? He will be 25 years old before he takes a snap in the NFL. Teams tend to drop players due to the shorter window he has to be a big time player.

Also remember he is a man playing with boys right now, he will be older than Mario on opening day, that makes me rethink his draft status.

[barrett]

Barret, we will just have to see how many juniors come out, I guess.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3795154

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell says fears of a looming rookie wage scale are unfounded and collegiate underclassmen should not be misled into thinking such a system will be in place by 2010 as they weigh their decisions to forgo their eligibility to enter the NFL next year.

"There will be no change in our current [rookie pool] system, at least until 2011," Goodell told ESPN on Saturday. "I've explained that to some college head coaches, athletic directors and league commissioners. Any underclassman who is hearing differently is probably hearing it from an agent or from another source who is misinformed."

Goodell met with approximately six commissioners from major conferences during the recent National Football Foundation meetings.

Roger Goodell acknowledges a modification to rookie wages in the NFL is likely, but not before 2011. Goodell also has personally delivered his message to college coaches such as Florida's Urban Meyer and USC's Pete Carroll, both of whom have junior quarterbacks in Tim Tebow and Mark Sanchez who are contemplating turning pro for the 2009 draft.

Two other highly touted underclassman quarterbacks, Georgia junior Matthew Stafford and Oklahoma redshirt sophomore/Heisman Trophy winner Sam Bradford, also are considering a move to the NFL.

"We talked about it, cleared the air and it was good to hear it straight from the commissioner," Carroll said Saturday. "That's a huge statement now that he's on the record. Obviously, I'm in total support of it and hopefully now a lot of good college kids getting bad information will be able to read it, see it, and trust it."

[barrett]

You do realize how old he is? He will be 25 years old before he takes a snap in the NFL. Teams tend to drop players due to the shorter window he has to be a big time player.

Also remember he is a man playing with boys right now, he will be older than Mario on opening day, that makes me rethink his draft status.

This is true but is balanced out in some ways by the fact that he only has a Willie Parkeresque 69 total carries in his first 3 years of college before the big breakout this past year. This lack of wear and tear will not totally offset the age, but it will help.

[painekiller]

This is true but is balanced out in some ways by the fact that he only has a Willie Parkeresque 69 total carries in his first 3 years of college before the big breakout this past year. This lack of wear and tear will not totally offset the age, but it will help.

IMO a player with such a small window needs to be 4th round or latter. Also he has only one good year since HS, so a 4th round pick again.

But these are my opinions.

[mussop]

I don't think you should just not consider a position (other than QB) because of who we have, but there does need to be a balance between need and best player available. If the team has a TE rated significantly higher than what else is left, then yes it should take him. If he's in a group of similarly rated players, well then you have to look at need as part of that decision.

Well said!

[Roy P]

The bright side is there will be a few unknowns that will ace their combines and shoot up the draft board that we haven't heard of yet. Remember Demarcus Ware? He was going to be a second-round sleeper, then a late first, then a mid-first and wound up being taken at #10?

I'm going on the record, Paul Kruger. Plays like Freddy and slices through offensive linemen.

6'5" 265lbs 4.68 - 40, reminds me of Patrick Kearney and would look nice opposite of Mario. He can play al 3 downs, so there's no need to find a specialist later in the draft to come in and pass rush, saving a draft pick.

Can we trade down and still get him? Right now, yeah. On draft day, we may be lucky if he's at #15.

[kravix]

I am curious as to how Goodell can say there will be no rookie cap in 2010. If it is negotiated as part of the CBA, which according to what we have heard from players it most likely will be, then it will be in place. Even if somehow the CBA stated that a rookie cap wouldnt take effect until the following season, what is to say that the owners wouldnt offer contracts at that rate in 2010 even if it is unofficial. I would rather bump the pay for vets or FA than spend 60M on some kid out of college that may never amount to jack.

[jppaul]

I can see it already we are so getting Travis Johnsoned again. Dammit.

[mussop]

I can see it already we are so getting Travis Johnsoned again. Dammit.I wasnt aware he re-entered the draft.

[mussop]

My updated list

1 Andre Smith
2 Matthew Stafford
3 Michael Oher
4 Eugene Monroe
5 Malcolm Jenkins
6 B.J. Raji
7 Aaron Curry
8 Michael Crabtree
9 Brian Orakpo
10 Rey Maualaga
11 Vontae Davis
12 Chris Wells
13 Jason Smith
14 Jeria Jerry
15 Everette Bown

the best of the rest

Max Unger C Oregon
Alex Mack OC 6-4, 315 California
Clint Sintim OLB 6-2, 255 Virginia
Brandon Spikes LB 6-2, 245 Florida
James Laurinaitis LB 6-2, 245 Ohio State
Alphonso Smith CB 5-9, 195 Wake Forest
D.J. Moore CB 5-10, 182 Vanderbilt
Will Moore FS 6-0, 230 Missouri (X)
Sen'Derrick Marks DT 6-1, 290 Auburn
Michael Johnson DE 6-6, 250 Georgia Tech
Greg Hardy DE 6-4, 265 Mississippi (O)
Aaron Maybin DE 6-3, 235 Penn State
Brandon Pettigrew TE 6-5, 260 Oklahoma State
Chase Coffman TE 6-5, 245 Missouri
Percy Harvin WR 5-10, 180 Florida (X)
Darrius Heyward-Bey WR 6-1, 206 Maryland
Jeremy Maclin WR 6-0, 200 Missouri
Knowshon Moreno RB 5-10, 207 Georgia
Leshon McCoy RB 5-11, 215 Pittsburg
Jamon Meredith OT 6-5, 310 South Carolina
Alex Boone OT 6-7, 312 Ohio State

[HPF Bob]

OU's Bradford and Grishem are now off the table. That sucks in multiple ways.

The pool of talent that might drop the guys we want down to 15 appear to be dwindling. We may find ourselves at 15 with no really good options. But it is way too early to say with certainty. The board definitely changes after the combine.

[papabear]

I'm going on the record, Paul Kruger. Plays like Freddy and slices through offensive linemen.



Can this be considered the first official nickname of the 2009 Draft? Not quite Captain america though.

[jppaul]

You can also nix Greg Hardy, DE, Ole Miss, and Brandon Spikes, ILB, Florida. The talent pool dwindles further.

[papabear]

You can also nix Greg Hardy, DE, Ole Miss, and Brandon Spikes, ILB, Florida. The talent pool dwindles further.


Is it just me or does it seem like there are more top guys deciding to stay in college one more year than in years past?

[Roy P]

Can this be considered the first official nickname of the 2009 Draft? Not quite Captain america though.

No, I used the monniker "Captain America" to prevent spies from knowing who I was talking about. It was more of a code name than a nickname.

[jppaul]

Interestingly enough, I think you are correct. I have never seen so many sure fire first round and top ten picks decline to enter the draft.

Off hand in the top ten:

Taylor Mays
Sam Bradford
Gerald McCoy

First rounders:

Jermaine Gresham
Greg Hardy
Brandon Spikes

That is all I could think of off the cuff.

[barrett]

Like I said, the labor issues will not be pushing any kids into coming out early.

[jppaul]

Nevertheless, the general rule I have repeatedly heard iterated by college and NFL coaches alike, is that if you are sure you are a first rounder you come out. That rule has been case by the road side in this case, and I think next year you think some of the prospects listed are going to regret this decision.

[nunusguy]

Penn State DE Aaron Maybin is going to be a very fast riser in the draft. Scouting services have him late in the first and some have him in the second but he'll be gone by the first half of the first round. While some project him as a 3-4 OLB, there are 4-3 teams who think he can pack on 20 pounds of muscle with ease on his frame and play DE in a 4-3. Houston Texans, this could be your guy.
http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2009/01/taylor_mays_made_the_right_cal.html
*********************************************
I haven't heard too much about this guy, but LZ obviously likes him ?

[Bigtinylittle]

I can't believe Kubiak is going to go for someone who needs time to add twenty pounds of muscle. Kubiak's time is NOW. The more I think about it the less it will surprise me if he go RB, because a RB tends to be near his peak in his rookie year. The knock on RBs is they have short careers. If Kubes doesn't win next year that won't matter.

Another position known for early results is LB. Since we are deficient at LB, it won't surprise me if we go that direction either. Though we really need help at DE in passing situations, we might be able to fill that nicely in a later round with a specialist. Remember, we are kind of stuck with Weaver so we might as well use him as a first and second down guy.

An interesting thing to me is that Brown, Okoye and Williams did not have a body of work to justify how high they were drafted. But they went early anyway because they all screamed future potential. Because this may be Kubiak's last year, I don't think we'll see that kind of pick this year. I'm thinking we probably go BPAN. (Best Player Available Now)

[jppaul]

I can't believe Kubiak is going to go for someone who needs time to add twenty pounds of muscle. Kubiak's time is NOW. The more I think about it the less it will surprise me if he go RB, because a RB tends to be near his peak in his rookie year. The knock on RBs is they have short careers. If Kubes doesn't win next year that won't matter.

Another position known for early results is LB. Since we are deficient at LB, it won't surprise me if we go that direction either. Though we really need help at DE in passing situations, we might be able to fill that nicely in a later round with a specialist. Remember, we are kind of stuck with Weaver so we might as well use him as a first and second down guy.

An interesting thing to me is that Brown, Okoye and Williams did not have a body of work to justify how high they were drafted. But they went early anyway because they all screamed future potential. Because this may be Kubiak's last year, I don't think we'll see that kind of pick this year. I'm thinking we probably go BPAN. (Best Player Available Now)

My impact players that may be available at 15:

Aaron Maybin has the type of speed off the edge that can make a DE an instant impact player.
Ray Malulaga
James Lauranitis
Chris Wells
Brian Cushing
Malcolm Jenkins has alot of athletic ability and is one of teh more polished corners in this draft.

Personally, I would love for Malualaga to fall, but don't think it will happen.

[mussop]

My impact players that may be available at 15:

Aaron Maybin has the type of speed off the edge that can make a DE an instant impact player.
Ray Malulaga
James Lauranitis
Chris Wells
Brian Cushing
Malcolm Jenkins has alot of athletic ability and is one of teh more polished corners in this draft.

Personally, I would love for Malualaga to fall, but don't think it will happen.

I cant wait until the combine to see how Maybina and Brown look in some drills.


I think if you are on the right track with "impact players". Kubes has to make it happen this year. My list of impact players that could be available @15looks more like this.

Everette Bown
Clint Sintim OLB 6-2, 255 Virginia
Aaron Maybin DE 6-3, 235 Penn State
Chase Coffman TE 6-5, 245 Missouri
Percy Harvin WR 5-10, 180 Florida (X)
Darrius Heyward-Bey WR 6-1, 206 Maryland
Jeremy Maclin WR 6-0, 200 Missouri
Leshon McCoy RB 5-11, 215 Pittsburg
and maybe
Michael Johnson DE 6-6, 250 Georgia Tech

Any of these guys could make an impact on our team.

[Roy P]

My impact players that may be available at 15:

Aaron Maybin has the type of speed off the edge that can make a DE an instant impact player.

While they haven't had a Pro Day or the Combine, I'm hesitant to say Maybin has the type of speed to be an instant impact. I've seen these projections:

Aaron Maybin 6'4" 248lbs and 4.67 - 40
Everette Brown 6'4" 252lbs and 4.65 - 40
Michael Johnson 6''7" 258lbs and 4.67 - 40
Paul Kruger 6'5" 265lbs and 4.68 - 40.

Gaines Adams ran a 4.64 at 6'5" 258lbs. I'm not sure he had an Instant Impact. Brian Robison ran a 4.67 at 6'3" 259lbs. One was the #4 pick and the other was a 4th round pick. Robison had 4.5 sacks his rookie year and started 5 games. Adams had 6 sacks his rookie year and started 8 games. I'm not quite sure we have a Jevon Kearse, Dwight Freeney, Simeon Rice, or Leslie O'neal in this draft class, who makes a difference day one.

Players who should make an impact right away in my opinion are:
Crabtree, Curry, Oher, Stafford, Moreno, Maclin, McCoy, Harvin, Pettigrew, and William Moore. Other players may develop into great players with time, but I wouldn't bet my career on it.

This brings up an interesting philosophy question between a GM and a HC. When drafting players do you go for the BPA currently or the BPA eventually? That was the question with Mario vs. Bush. Bush started off his career faster, but it now appears the Mario was the better choice.

[Bigtinylittle]

It would be interesting to know what Mario and Reggie would be worth if they were to be offered in a trade for a pick in this draft. I'm pretty sure Mario would go at or close to a number one overall, but I'm having trouble deciding what someone would offer for Bush, considering the huge contract he would come with. Would he even go for a first round pick?

[Roy P]

I realize that there has been discussions on moving Ryans out to the WILL, but what about drafting Laurinitis to play the WILL and leaving Ryans at the MIKE?

If things continue at the rate they are going, William Moore might be available in the 2nd round. Then, in the 3rd round grab DE/OLB Cody Brown. Followed by RB James Davis in the 4th.

5th TE Bear Pascoe
6th SS Keith Fitzhugh
7th DT Darryl Richard

That would shore up some needs.


Cody Brown is 6'2" 248lbs 4.68
Everette Brown is 6'4" 252lbs 4.65 and people are considering using our 1st round pick on him.

[jppaul]

While they haven't had a Pro Day or the Combine, I'm hesitant to say Maybin has the type of speed to be an instant impact. I've seen these projections:

Aaron Maybin 6'4" 248lbs and 4.67 - 40
Everette Brown 6'4" 252lbs and 4.65 - 40
Michael Johnson 6''7" 258lbs and 4.67 - 40
Paul Kruger 6'5" 265lbs and 4.68 - 40.

Gaines Adams ran a 4.64 at 6'5" 258lbs. I'm not sure he had an Instant Impact. Brian Robison ran a 4.67 at 6'3" 259lbs. One was the #4 pick and the other was a 4th round pick. Robison had 4.5 sacks his rookie year and started 5 games. Adams had 6 sacks his rookie year and started 8 games. I'm not quite sure we have a Jevon Kearse, Dwight Freeney, Simeon Rice, or Leslie O'neal in this draft class, who makes a difference day one.

Players who should make an impact right away in my opinion are:
Crabtree, Curry, Oher, Stafford, Moreno, Maclin, McCoy, Harvin, Pettigrew, and William Moore. Other players may develop into great players with time, but I wouldn't bet my career on it.

This brings up an interesting philosophy question between a GM and a HC. When drafting players do you go for the BPA currently or the BPA eventually? That was the question with Mario vs. Bush. Bush started off his career faster, but it now appears the Mario was the better choice.

I don't think a 40 time is the most important stat for a DE. I look, as I am sure you do Roy, at thier first step among other things, and I believe that Johnson and Maybin have the most dynamic first step off the line in this draft.

I am not sure about Everette Brown, he seems a bit like a mirage to me. He is good in college but I am not sure that he will succeed in the pros, he reminds me of Jamaal Anderson?, and for that reason I am skeptical.

[jppaul]

I realize that there has been discussions on moving Ryans out to the WILL, but what about drafting Laurinitis to play the WILL and leaving Ryans at the MIKE?

If things continue at the rate they are going, William Moore might be available in the 2nd round. Then, in the 3rd round grab DE/OLB Cody Brown. Followed by RB James Davis in the 4th.

5th TE Bear Pascoe
6th SS Keith Fitzhugh
7th DT Darryl Richard

That would shore up some needs.


Cody Brown is 6'2" 248lbs 4.68
Everette Brown is 6'4" 252lbs 4.65 and people are considering using our 1st round pick on him.

What do you think about drafting Malualaga and moving him to Sam, keeping Adibi at Will, Demeco as Mike, and Diles as the first backup to Sam and Mike?

If you can't tell btw, I am a huge fan of Malualaga's and believe he is the thumper that brings teh attitude we need to the D.

[mussop]

I realize that there has been discussions on moving Ryans out to the WILL, but what about drafting Laurinitis to play the WILL and leaving Ryans at the MIKE?

If things continue at the rate they are going, William Moore might be available in the 2nd round. Then, in the 3rd round grab DE/OLB Cody Brown. Followed by RB James Davis in the 4th.

5th TE Bear Pascoe
6th SS Keith Fitzhugh
7th DT Darryl Richard

That would shore up some needs.


Cody Brown is 6'2" 248lbs 4.68
Everette Brown is 6'4" 252lbs 4.65 and people are considering using our 1st round pick on him.

You cant judge a guy by measurables alone. You know that.

[Bigtinylittle]

In one of the games yesterday I watched a defensive player, I think he was a DE, come around the edge as fast as he could and as he was getting toward the QB his body was leaning so far over sideways he seemed like he was barely a foot off the ground. Moving sideways. At full speed. And he made the play. I could study measurables all day long and they would never tell me who could make that play and who would be falling on their face.

Obviously, it is great tho know the measurables, but how do you measure something like that?

[painekiller]

I realize that there has been discussions on moving Ryans out to the WILL, but what about drafting Laurinitis to play the WILL and leaving Ryans at the MIKE?


Laurinitis is not the prototypical WILL IMO. I can see him as a MIKE or a SAM.

Rey Rey is looking like a 3-4 Middle guy. I like his attitude, but he is a little slow which would hurt in pass coverage.

[jppaul]

In one of the games yesterday I watched a defensive player, I think he was a DE, come around the edge as fast as he could and as he was getting toward the QB his body was leaning so far over sideways he seemed like he was barely a foot off the ground. Moving sideways. At full speed. And he made the play. I could study measurables all day long and they would never tell me who could make that play and who would be falling on their face.

Obviously, it is great tho know the measurables, but how do you measure something like that?

They call that Body Lean and it was a reason that the Giants wouldn't trade Osi to the Chargers in the 04? draft.

[Roy P]

You cant judge a guy by measurables alone. You know that.

But it does help compare players who have gone against different competition. One guy who makes a great play against an inferior opponent, might not have been in the same position against better talent.

I like to watch the players to determine who I am interested in, but then use the measurable to check my enthusiasm.

Cody Brown gets results in pass rush, however he is probably too small at the next level to play DE all three downs. Everette Brown is only slightly larger, but probably falls into that same category. Unless of course you have better tacklers at LB and S to cover up his deficiency against the run. The other option is go to a 3-4 system to play OLB.

[Roy P]

Laurinitis is not the prototypical WILL IMO. I can see him as a MIKE or a SAM.

Did you think that of A.J. Hawk? I did, but he was pretty effective at the WILL for the Packers. Of course, now with Capers as the DC in GB, he may become the ILB.

[painekiller]

Did you think that of A.J. Hawk? I did, but he was pretty effective at the WILL for the Packers. Of course, now with Capers as the DC in GB, he may become the ILB.

I thought Hawk was a 3 position guy, but the WILL was my least favorite place to play him. I would have put him in the middle had we drafted him.

Your point is a good one. I guess I am starting to favor the smaller quicker approach.

[ramp1028]

In looking at a lot of Mock drafts two players stand out...

Vonte Davis at cb, and Will Moore at Safety...

Also alot of the mocks are mixed about how high some of the DE's are going...

one might have a guy going third, and then another might have the same guy being drafted by the Texans...

It seems like there will be value at 15..

[nunusguy]

Laurinitis is not the prototypical WILL IMO. I can see him as a MIKE or a SAM.

Rey Rey is looking like a 3-4 Middle guy. I like his attitude, but he is a little slow which would hurt in pass coverage.

Wonder why Laurinitis passed up the Senior Bowl ? He seems just like the kind of player who would be there no matter what to compete ? Unless he's injured ?
I think Rey-Rey is overrated and Cushing, who really reminds me of Laurinitis, will go off of the Board first among USC LBS.
Of Laurinitis, Cushing, & Rey-Rey, which would be the most valuable backer to the Texans ?

[jppaul]

I don't think Maluluaga is overrated but I think Cushing was a little bit underrated going into this process.

[painekiller]

Rey Rey had a better day today. That said, I had hoped Rey Rey could be our Sam, but this week showed me he is a Mike only. He needs to be going downhill.

So who can play Sam or Will for use? I like some latter round guy better. I am not willing to use the 1st round pick on these guys.

[Keith]

I suppose Aaron Curry won't last until 15.

There's usually some pretty talented LBs that slip into the 2nd and 3rd rounds though. I think we just take the BPA on defense at 15 or entertain trade down offers.

[Roy P]

.

So who can play Sam or Will for use? I like some latter round guy better. I am not willing to use the 1st round pick on these guys.

I'm liking Cody Brown and Victor Butler.

Marcus Freeman could possibly be a decent Will for us. Heck, Nic Harris is playing WILL in Mobile this week.

[painekiller]

I'm liking Cody Brown and Victor Butler.

Marcus Freeman could possibly be a decent Will for us. Heck, Nic Harris is playing WILL in Mobile this week.

Kaluka Maiava my target, just not sure where he falls.

Dannell Ellerbe is someone I wonder if he can play the SAM.


A few others i like are Zack Follett, Larry English, Jonathon Casillas, Quentin Cotton to name a few seniors.

BTW I have been a Freeman fan all season.

[mussop]

Kaluka Maiava my target, just not sure where he falls.

Dannell Ellerbe is someone I wonder if he can play the SAM.


A few others i like are Zack Follett, Larry English, Jonathon Casillas, Quentin Cotton to name a few seniors.

BTW I have been a Freeman fan all season.

English looks like he can have more of an impact of the edge then any of the others yo named IMO.

I started out a Freeman and McKillop fan this year but both dissapointed me when I watched them. Freeman just wasnt the around the ball type player that I like at OLB and while McKillop was he just didnt have the pop/drive hrough tackling ability I thought he had. If you could combine the 2 you would have a great OLB. I still wouldnt be upset if we took either of them after the 3rd round.

[mussop]

UPDATE!!!! 2/15/2009


I believe these players will be gone.

1 Eugene Monroe
2 Andre Smith
3 Matthew Stafford
4 Michael Crabtree
5 Chris Wells
6 Michael Oher
7 Malcolm Jenkins
8 Brian Orakpo
9 Aaron Curry
10 Rey Maualaga
11 B.J. Raji
12 Jason Smith
13 Aaron Maybin
14 Everette Bown
15 ???????


I would be happy with any of the bolded players falling.

Defensive players left that might be worth the 15th pick

James Laurinaitis LB 6-2, 245 Ohio State
Clint Sintim OLB
Brian Cushing OLB
Alphonso Smith CB 5-9, 195 Wake Forest
D.J. Moore CB 5-10, 182 Vanderbilt
Vontae Davis CB
Sen'Derrick Marks DT 6-1, 290 Auburn
Jeria Jerry DT 6-2, 290 Mississippi
Michael Johnson DE 6-6, 250 Georgia Tech


Offensive players left to consider

Percy Harvin WR 5-10, 180 Florida (X)
Darrius Heyward-Bey WR 6-1, 206 Maryland
Jeremy Maclin WR 6-0, 200 Missouri
Alex Mack OC 6-4, 315 California
Knowshon Moreno RB 5-10, 207 Georgia
Leshon McCoy RB 5-11, 215 Pittsburg
Jamon Meredith OT 6-5, 310 South Carolina

Who would you pick? Of course if any of the bolded players fell I would jump all over that player. If I had to choose from whats left and trading down wasnt an option, I think I would have to go Maclin. I think he could have the biggest impact of all the players left.

Sintim is an interesting player that I dont think has been disscussed around here enough.

Mack at center is another option that should be considered. Is 15 to high for a guy who would come in and start right away?

[Roy P]

UPDATE!!!! 2/15/2009


Defensive players left that might be worth the 15th pick

Clint Sintim OLB
Jamon Meredith OT 6-5, 310 South Carolina

Sintim is an interesting player that I dont think has been disscussed around here enough.



Sintim? I can't believe how many times I see his name brought up as a 1st round pick. Why? The best way this guy can make a living in the NFL is as a ILB in a 3-4 defense like Brady James or Bart Scott. If he were to play for the Texans, he'd be the SAM that has to come out of the game on 3rd down.
He's not athletic enough to play the WILL and I don't think I would move Ryans over to put this guy at MLB.

Jamon Meredith in the 1st round? That's a typo, right?

[mussop]

Sintim? I can't believe how many times I see his name brought up as a 1st round pick. Why? The best way this guy can make a living in the NFL is as a ILB in a 3-4 defense like Brady James or Bart Scott. If he were to play for the Texans, he'd be the SAM that has to come out of the game on 3rd down.
He's not athletic enough to play the WILL and I don't think I would move Ryans over to put this guy at MLB.

Jamon Meredith in the 1st round? That's a typo, right?


Yeh Meredith shouldnt be on there. Cut and past mistake.

One of the pro arguments about Cushing was that on third down he could put his hand down and be our pass rush specialist. IMO Sintim would be better at this than Cushing. Look at their sack numbers throughout their college Careers.

[American Idle]

Basing all of this on re-signing Dunta I too would like any of the bolded, with Cushing and Davis as my front line favorites if none of the bolds are left.

I then would like a DE in the second, or a Chung/Moore/Delmas safety type (especially if we went DE/LB in the 1st). I then like Caldwell (C), or Rashad, Brown, Greene type back in the 3rd or 4th. That would make me happy as a clam...even though I have no idea what that means.

I really like Caldwell alot and think he would fit in Gibbs's system well. He can play all over the line, but would draft hoping he would stay at center. He has good feet and decent size. In January, I thought we had to get Mack or Unger if we drafted a center in the first couple of rounds, but based on where theyre appearing to go (2nd round, maybe late 1st), it would be a waste of a pick IMO. Seems to be a good draft for Centers this year.

[Roy P]

Sintim would be better at this than Cushing. Look at their sack numbers throughout their college Careers.

Okay, I see what you are going for here. I've seen him in the 31-42 projection, so #15 seems high. He would add to the pass rush, and I could see him as a second round pick, just not the first. If he shows some ability to drop in coverage at the Combine, I might be a little more intrigued. I keep going back to Cliff Avril from last year, who was a 3rd round pick as my metric as to when I pull the trigger on a SAM/DE Hybrid.

[jppaul]

I'm going on the record, Paul Kruger. Plays like Freddy and slices through offensive linemen.

Cheesy quote of the day.;)

[NBT]

Truth be told, we don't know who will be the second round picks, or who will jump up into the first. After the Combine it should become clearer.