2009 needs

[painekiller]

I know most of you cringe when I do these threads. But I have to do it. I need my fix.

Our Preseason perceived needs for next years draft.

DE opposite Mario
TE
OLB
DB
WR
RB (we will draft a RB every year or every other year)


Guys who should be on the radar:
Tyson Jackson LSU DE

James Laurinaitis Ohio St OLB
Rey Maualuga USC MLB
Brian Cushing USC OLB
Sean Lee Penn St. OLB

Malcolm Jenkins Ohio St. CB
William Moore Missouri S

Travis Beckum Wisconsin TE
Brandon Pettigrew Ok St. TE

Michael Oher Mississippi OT
Alex Mack Cal OC/OG
Max Unger Oregon OT

Chris Wells Ohio St RB (Jr)

This is by no means a complete list. And I skipped some guys that might not be good fits for our schemes. This appears to be a solid LB and OT year. Weak QB.

Add some names and let's start the list.

[nero THE zero]

I don't really see how WR is a need. We have four entrenched recievers and the fifth spot is really a non-issue. If Jacoby totally bombs then I think we need to draft another reciever but I think we're pretty deep there as of now.

[papabear]

I don't really see how WR is a need. We have four entrenched recievers and the fifth spot is really a non-issue. If Jacoby totally bombs then I think we need to draft another reciever but I think we're pretty deep there as of now.

It probably won't be a first round type of need, but i definitely think we'll look at WR harder than we did this year.

I'll go with PK on RB....it's something to look at nearly every year, and with Green/Brown injury history and the fact that we still don't know what we have with Taylor we could suddenly be desperate for a RB.

A DE is a likely need. SLB could still be a need...I love Laurinitas and Maualuga.

We will probaly need a TE to replace Bruener....didn't we sign an UDFA who could fit that mold. Not saying he will....it just came to mind when writing this.

DB-I'm hopefull with the safeties for some reason, even though I habitually complain about them. We have no idea if Dunta will be back to what he was before. The test for Bennet will be this year, and Molden is an unknown. So unless the staff is right about Reeves we could be looking for CB again.

OL/DL-ALWAYS IMO

[Roy P]

I know most of you cringe when I do these threads. But I have to do it. I need my fix.

Our Preseason perceived needs for next years draft.

DE opposite Mario
TE
OLB
DB
WR
RB (we will draft a RB every year or every other year)


Malcolm Jenkins Ohio St. CB
William Moore Missouri S

Michael Oher Mississippi OT
Alex Mack Cal OC/OG
Max Unger Oregon OT


Add some names and let's start the list.

1. LT Alex Boone - if he's available when we pick, I can shuffle the OL.
2. CB Malcolm Jenkins - next year's Antoine Cason.
3. DE Doug Worthing - Gee, Ohio St. should be fun to watch.
4. RB James Davis - I wanted him to come out this year for us.
5. TE Cornelius Ingram - I wonder if Tebow throws to him more.

[jppaul]

I know most of you cringe when I do these threads. But I have to do it. I need my fix.

Our Preseason perceived needs for next years draft.

DE opposite Mario

Add some names and let's start the list.

PK, add Michael Johnson from Georgia Tech to that list, he is a rangy and explosive DE.

[painekiller]

PK, add Michael Johnson from Georgia Tech to that list, he is a rangy and explosive DE.

I am looking for a good RDE, pass rusher who can play the run. So are every other team in the NFL. Might settle for a specialist who can come in during passing situations, if we can find in him in the 3rd or 4th. Next year we can finally afford to BPA instead of BPA for need.

I agree with Roy, Ohio St appears loaded again, and USC still has a ton a talent for next year.

This next draft currently appears loaded at OT again at the top, and Boone is high on my list, but I want to watch him with an eye on Gibbs system and how he implements it in Houston. Should be a fun a year.

[nero THE zero]

PK, add Michael Johnson from Georgia Tech to that list, he is a rangy and explosive DE.

Plus he has a giraffe neck which is pretty unique.

(<-- GaTech fan)

[nunusguy]

1. LT Alex Boone - if he's available when we pick, I can shuffle the OL.

Not too optimistic about the current plan for Duane Brown as the LT solution ?

[Roy P]

I'm not saying Brown is going to be a bust, I'm just saying that Boone is going to be a special player.

[Roy P]

4. RB James Davis - I wanted him to come out this year for us.

If we don't get the top RB, here are some interesting guys to watch this fall to see how they develop.

RB Dennis Kennedy Akron - 5' 11" 215lbs (next year's Jalen Parmele)
RB Ontario Sneed Central Michigan - 5' 11" 215lbs
RB Mike Davis South Carolina - 5' 9" 212lbs (Another Game Cock?)
RB Marlon Lucky Nebraska - 6' 0" 210lbs (Ahman Green 10 years ago?)

[painekiller]

Some DE to watch, and a small write up on them from Rivals (http://nfldraft.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=802821)

Maurice Evans, DE, Penn State*
Very strong at the point of attack for a player who is such a good pass rusher (12½ sacks in '07). He uses good leverage and is considered a smart player. Some feel he's a better long-term prospect than Chris Long.

Michael Johnson, DE, Georgia Tech
Looking for a potential combine warrior in 2009? Johnson could be it. He's only made one college start, but scouts swear by the former basketball player's athleticism and upside.

Greg Middleton, DE, Indiana*
NFL teams covet pass-rushing ends, and Middleton – who led the nation with 16 sacks last season – is just that. He was a consensus All-Big Ten selection.

George Selvie, DE, South Florida*
Considered a little on the light side, but is highly productive. Named Big East defensive player of the year in 2007. Has a great first step and very good athleticism.

Kyle Moore, DE, USC*
Scouts love his versatility but would like to see more production. Moore has a great frame and even drops into coverage at times.

* - Denotes underclassman.

[painekiller]

PK, add Michael Johnson from Georgia Tech to that list, he is a rangy and explosive DE.

Got'em now, thanks jp

[painekiller]

WaltersFootball.com's Mike McGuire (http://walterfootball.com/mattfiveoffense.php) has his top 5 offensive players by position out

A few highlights: (click on the link above to see the whole list.
Offensive Tackles


Michael Oher, Ole Miss
Owning elite size and athleticism, Oher is the best left tackle prospect since Orlando Pace.


Eugene Monroe, Virginia
Isn't quite the athlete that D'Brickashaw Ferguson was, but he can hold his own in the footwork department.


Ciron Black, LSU
A ton of starting experience for such a young player. Shut down Vernon Gholston in the National Championship.


Alex Boone, Ohio State
With great size and solid footwork, he's a more athletic Jeremy Trueblood.


Dace Richardson, Iowa
Year in, year out Richardson is one of the most underrated offensive linemen in the country. Technically dominates opponents with great athleticism for the position.


An my early favorite to break the never a RB in the 1st rule
Chris "Beanie" Wells, Ohio State
Amazing speed for a guy who is 6-1, 230 pounds. He does have a second burst unlike most bigger backs. Scary potential.

[painekiller]

WaltersFootball.com's Mike McGuire (http://walterfootball.com/mattfivedefense.php) has his top 5 defensive players by position out

A few highlights
Defensive Ends

Michael Johnson, Georgia Tech
Excellent height and speed to be the prototypical 4-3 edge rusher in the mold of Simeon Rice.

Greg Hardy, Ole Miss
In the mold of a Jarvis Moss, but he can't have a disappointing junior season.

Tyson Jackson, LSU
Needs to live up to his physical potential, and he has all the tools to dominate.

George Selvie, South Florida
Despite being No. 4 on my list of ends, Selvie is my No. 1 DE/OLB for 3-4 defenses.

Greg Middleton, Indiana
Led the country in sacks with 16.

And one of my favorites who did not come out last year, a real ball hawk at safety.
William Moore, Missouri
Outstanding production and leadership, but speed is on the short side. Reminds me of John Lynch.

[painekiller]

New Era Scouting has ranked the seniors, #1 to #300. (http://www.newerascouting.com/2009-rankings/)

Top 32

1. Michael Oher OT Ole Miss
2. Rey Maualuga ILB USC
3. Duke Robinson OG Oklahoma
4. James Davis RB Clemson
5. William Moore FS Missouri
6. Malcolm Jenkins CB Ohio State
7. James Laurinaitis OLB Ohio State
8. Brian Cushing OLB USC
9. Fili Moala DT USC
10. Curtis Painter QB Purdue
11. Cullen Harper QB Clemson
12. Tyson Jackson DE LSU
13. Jeremy Perry OG Oregon State
14. Michael Johnson DE Georgia Tech
15. Max Unger OT Oregon
16. Phil Loadholt OT Oklahoma
17. Victor Harris CB Virginia Tech
18. Arian Foster RB Tennessee
19. Demetrius Byrd WR LSU
20. Travis Beckum TE Wisconsin
21. Sean Lee OLB Penn State
22. Chase Coffman TE Missouri
23. Alex Boone OT Ohio State
24. Marlon Lucky RB Nebraska
25. Mike Mickens CB Cincinnati
26. Terrance Taylor DT Michigan
27. Brian Robiskie WR Ohio State
28. Herman Johnson OG LSU
29. Nic Harris FS Oklahoma
30. Darry Beckwith OLB LSU
31. Alphonso Smith CB Wake Forest
32. Patrick Chung SS Oregon


Note Alex Mack barely missed this cut. And this is just senior. It will be fun to see who drops and who climbs.

[NBT]

We should be drafting in the high 20's next year, so it is going to be sweet that we can finally just sit back and take the best player that is still there. Or will we play the trade game again?:D

[painekiller]

We should be drafting in the high 20's next year, so it is going to be sweet that we can finally just sit back and take the best player that is still there. Or will we play the trade game again?:D

Well if you look at 32 guys above and then realize they are all seniors, you can see some solid names slipping when the junior start to come out. That said I am always in favor of the trade down.

If we pick in the mid teens, grab a DE that complements Mario and do not look back.

[edo783]

Assuming our CBs workout, I expect that the logical pick would be a DE edge rusher.

[KJ3]

I know most of you cringe when I do these threads. But I have to do it. I need my fix.

Our Preseason perceived needs for next years draft.

DE opposite Mario
TE
OLB
DB
WR
RB (we will draft a RB every year or every other year)


interesting order.

i'd say barring unforseen development/production out of diles AND adibi, OLB probably takes my #1 need. that's just me guessing that morlon greenwood gets a duece chucked to him after '09 though.

i assume you're outing DE as your #1 need to place emphasis on pass rushing? i'm all for getting a DE but i think if mario, amobi and to a lesser extent okam, t.j., and kalu play well this year they are a young enough group to expect the same result for a few years at least. adding a pass rusher certainly helps, but i'd rather pick a guy out in later rounds, maybe even a day 2 guy who has pass rushing tools, but needs good coaching to turn physical ability into a complete game.

i like the TE nod, and totally wonder how many times an opposing DC mentions "we're boned" in the gameplan room if kubiak had 2 TE guys that could block and catch.

the WR pick makes little sense even if j.j. busts. walter is a great possession guy, davis is a great speed guy and a.j. is both. adding on OD, and in your scenario another TE would be more than sufficient attention to the pass attack. besides, with one legit man and 3 (or however many) sidekicks another sidekick (5th rounder) won't impact the group much. I would get one early who would without a doubt supplant walter/davis/jones for the #2 gig or not select one at all.

i agree with your point of RB being a frequent low-round selection for us. I KNOW PHILOSOPHIES WHEN I SEE THEM!!!! WHO SAID I DON'T!?!?!

so what would i do?

1. OLB/S/WR
2. TE/S/G
3. S/G/DE
4. DE/RB/OL
5. RB/OL/DL
6./7. I think Kubiak is awesome at coaching players up and at this point I'm willing to give him the 6th and 7th rounds to make a project of anyone at any position ESPECIALLY quarterback and yes, I remember we selected Alex Brink like a month ago.

[NBT]

I see it something like this, depending on injuries and retirements: LB, OL, CB/S, QB (to coach up for when Sage is gone), & finally RB.

I would like to see Anthony Weaver gone so RDE would be my #1 pick next year.

If we go after FA's I hope someone besides Bobbie Grier is evaluating them.

[painekiller]

I see it something like this, depending on injuries and retirements: LB, OL, CB/S, QB (to coach up for when Sage is gone), & finally RB.

No DE? Which OL position will you be looking at in the 2nd? OT/OG/OC?

[KJ3]

it's gotta be guard right?

brown-probably gets about 2 years to show what he is
pitts-solid, but played a few snaps
myers-should be solid
?briesel/weary/spencer?-i think briesel wins it out but he's no lock for a spot now or next year
winston-hopefully makes his career here

[painekiller]

it's gotta be guard right?

brown-probably gets about 2 years to show what he is
pitts-solid, but played a few snaps
myers-should be solid
?briesel/weary/spencer?-i think briesel wins it out but he's no lock for a spot now or next year
winston-hopefully makes his career here

That is how I see it also. Saw a mock with us taking William Moore, FS/SS, Missouri. That is a pick I could get behind.

[Maninthebox]

Hey everybody from HPF.

For the first time in the Texans history, I can honestly say (if the 2009 draft was held today) we take the best player available. We need to get younger at RB and DE and we'll always need to improve depth. But the front office has actually filled every need. Do we have probowlers at every position? No. Do we have proven experience at every position? No. But there comes a time where mere numbers don't help. A good example is in the secondary. We could take another CB on the first day of the draft but where does that leave Robinson, Reeves, Bennett, Molden, etc.? We will eventually have to start cutting first day picks. I think we need to take the BPA and let the younger guys develop.

A lot of what we do depends on the following:
How does Colvin work out at DE?
How does Okam work out at as our runstopper?
How do the CBs develop?
How does the RB situation work out?

I guess that was a wordy way of saying, take the BPA. But if I had to emphasize any positions they would probably be D-Line and CB. And if there's a franchise RB, you might want to take him.

[Bigtinylittle]

1. DE. Cut Weaver and his 6mil contract, lose only 1.5 mil dead money.
2. OLB. Cut Greenwood and his big contract.
3. TE to compete with and possibly beat out OD
4. BPA
5. BPA
6. BPA
7. BPA

We should have enough cap money to fill a couple or three needs with medium priced FA's. Like we have done this year with Brown, Colvin, and Reeves. I am totally against going for any 9 or 10 mil per year CB's WR's etc.

Disclaimer/ All this assumes we don't have any more career ending injuries like we had with DD, Spencer, and possibly Robinson.

[KJ3]

1. DE. Cut Weaver and his 6mil contract, lose only 1.5 mil dead money.
2. OLB. Cut Greenwood and his big contract.
3. TE to compete with and possibly beat out OD
4. BPA
5. BPA
6. BPA
7. BPA
.

a 3rd round rookie is going to beat out owen daniels in his 3rd year? i liked where you were headed til the 3rd round and don't get me wrong, if we come across a stud TE like that i have no problem giving kubiak another cannon to fire....but....c'mon man...

[NBT]

No DE? Which OL position will you be looking at in the 2nd? OT/OG/OC?

Post the Rosevelt signing, I would say it is simply the best player available, no matter what position, excluding QB. QB in the first nowadays seems to bring bad luck, or is it just my own experience talking here?

[KJ3]

just you NBT, there have been some good qb's in the first recently. carson palmer, eli manning, tim couch was pretty awesome....

[NBT]

No DE? Which OL position will you be looking at in the 2nd? OT/OG/OC?

No DE because I think Colvin will be around for a couple of years. OL would be OT because you can always fit them in at OG if need be. OR OC as a backup to Meyers. I think we continue to tinker with RB in latter rounds just to keep the pot boiling.

I think this scouting staff is such that one or two diamonds in the dust will keep turning up in latter rounds too.

[Nconroe]

I agree BPA seems reasonable since we seem to have a reasonable mix of experience and developing youth at each position for now. See what happens and who's available between now and then. Seems a stud FS and most positions could perhaps find that diamond in the haystack. I do think this regime of scouts, GM, coaches are being consistently successful in draft so far.

[KJ3]

I think we continue to tinker with RB in latter rounds just to keep the pot boiling.

do you think if smithiak had any idea that mendenhall would fall they would've had a plan to grab him instead? or were they well aware of the OT run about to happen and there was no chance in hell they were taking a RB 1st round?

i don't believe for one second they expected him there, or that none of them were questioning their plan when they realized he had fallen.

my point is that this team, being pretty even as far as talent across positions, anything is possible in the 1st regardless of denver's draft history.

[edo783]

do you think if smithiak had any idea that mendenhall would fall they would've had a plan to grab him instead? .

Actually, I think you may have that backwards. If Brown hadn't been there they might have taken Mendenhall. They were, IMO, determined to get a quality LT and I think the only two other guys that they would have been interested in were gone. They took a fairly big gamble/risk trading back to get the 2 extra picks, but it worked.

[NBT]

In a couple of years, when we see how Brown, Slaton, and Barber have worked out, will we be able to tell for sure. But I will predict now that all 3 will be doing well.

[KJ3]

Actually, I think you may have that backwards. If Brown hadn't been there they might have taken Mendenhall. They were, IMO, determined to get a quality LT and I think the only two other guys that they would have been interested in were gone. They took a fairly big gamble/risk trading back to get the 2 extra picks, but it worked.

you're saying you think they would've taken mendenhall if they didn't believe brown was attainable? they had a shot at both so i'm not totally sure what you mean...

[edo783]

they had a shot at both so i'm not totally sure what you mean...

That's actually what I mean. As long as both were available they would select Brown, but if Brown was already off the board, then they might have taken Mendenhall. I'm still not sure they would have actually done it as Kubes & Gibbs don't seem to like to take 1st round RBs.

[KJ3]

ah, i see now.

i think if the right guy was in the 1st, available, and we were up kubiak wouldn't hesistate. the denver myth thing has kind of been busted anyway...

[NBT]

Well, after the Pgh game, I sure don't know squat. Colvin was a bust (cut), Brown the "glassman" is on I/R *&^%$!, Ahman as someone predicted is hurt, and Schaub stunk up the house. Of course Kubiak and Richard Smith have to take their share of the gloom & doom too. I am feeling about 2" above whale manure today, and whale manure is on the very bottom of the ocean!!!!

[KJ3]

whales poop? weird, i never thought about that...

anyway...i think if anything the pittsburgh game shows we need someone who can cover up the middle of the field. OLB, S, whatever.

my needs now:
1. S
2. DE
3. RB/OLB
4-7. OL/DL/RB

[NBT]

Well KJ, after the Tacks game, do you still stand by your prediction? This team is disorganized like Casserley's was. So what do we do? I say cut the fat, and get down to the players that want to win, pick up players as they become available from other teams, OR just quit and wait till next year (gag!).

[NBT]

No DE because I think Colvin will be around for a couple of years. OL would be OT because you can always fit them in at OG if need be. OR OC as a backup to Meyers. I think we continue to tinker with RB in latter rounds just to keep the pot boiling.

I think this scouting staff is such that one or two diamonds in the dust will keep turning up in latter rounds too.

Well, I really blew it on Colvin. He didn't even get out of TC. So now we are having trouble with our pass rush, as I feared.

[NBT]

Well we are now past Miami, and the win makes the rest of the season look a little more promising, but this team seems to take one step forward and 1 & 1/2 back every game. The Dline is starting to play Bullman more at DE, and the Dline is also doing more stunts. Demps and harrison are doing OK at safety, but the CB situation is still pretty bad. If the Draft were now, I would make DE, LB, and CB my main objective.

[mussop]

This is a list of players that i currently like.


DE Clay Mathews DE USC #47 4th or 5th round

Javon Ringer, Michigan State - 5-9, 205, (RB) 3rd or 4th

Terrence ’Mount’ Cody DT Alabama junior (#62, 6-4, 365), 2nd round

Ryan Stanchek, West Virginia - 6-4, 300, SR (LT) later rounds

Greg Isdaner, West Virginia - 6-4, 322, JR ...(G) Later rounds

George Selvie DE 6-4, 255 South Florida middle first

Michael Johnson DE 6-6, 250 Georgia Tech middle first

Rey Maualaga LB 6-2, 250 USC between pick 10 and 15 first

Alex Mack OC 6-4, 315 California late first

Duke Robinson OG 6-5, 335 Oklahoma top 15 pick

Nic Harris SS 6-2, 230 Oklahoma 2nd round

Pat White QB 6-1, 192 West Virginia later rounds

Marlon Lucky, RB 5-11, 210, Nebraska late round

Vontae Davis, CB 6-0, 200, Illinois top 10 pick

Chase Coffman (TE) Missouri middle first

Keep youre eye on this guy. Donald Brown Running back Connecticut Huskies Height: 5-10 Weight: 208 3rd or 4th round


Xavier Fulton, Illinois
Height: 6-6. Weight: 298.
Projected 40 Time: 4.90.
Projected Round (2009): 2-3.
5/24/08: For a guy coming off a season-ending knee injury, Xavier Fulton played pretty well in 2007. A former defensive lineman, Fulton's athleticism will make him a good fit in a zone-blocking scheme. 3rd round

Outside linebacker Aaron Curry (Wake Forest) late first

Brian Orakpo DE (Texas) This guy is moving up fast. At this pace he will be a top ten pick.

[KJ3]

right now i think i might pull the trigger on robinson or mack in the first, maybe a OLB 2nd, DE 3rd, RB 4th.

complete the o'line, for once.

[NBT]

I dunno, I would like to get the permanent solution to that RDE. I would be tempted to use number one for that. However, perceptions change over time, that is if Bullman continues to do well. Other than that I still see CB as a perrenial need.

[KJ3]

I dunno, I would like to get the permanent solution to that RDE. I would be tempted to use number one for that. However, perceptions change over time, that is if Bullman continues to do well. Other than that I still see CB as a perrenial need.

i fully understand the want for a DE to complete the d'line, so i'd say either get a big name OG/OC in free agency and draft the DE 1st or get a big name DL guy in free agency and draft the OL 1st. either way gives strength to both lines so i would be fine either. personally i feel like waiting on a drafted DE to develop would suck a little more than waiting on the OL guy (i think our o'line is ahead of the d'line).

[NBT]

Of course it depends more on what our Draft position will be, and who is available at that moment in time. I have been on record, going back to the hpf days, of not trading up in the Draft. However, for the first time, I believe if the MLB/OLB I like (James Laurnaitis, or one of the better DE's) is there, say at #10, I think I would trade up. Again depends on the situation when we get there which is still a long way off.

[KJ3]

Of corse it depends more on what our Draft position will be, and who is available at that moment in time. I have been on record, going back to the hpf days, of not trading up in the Draft. However, for the first time, I believe if the MLB/OLB I like (James Laurnaitis, or one of the better DE's) is there, say at #10, I think I would trade up. Again depends on the situation when we get there which is still a long way off.

yea, this is basically the worst time of the year for draft speculation. we've seen just enough to know what sucks enough to address but not enough to really speculate with accuracy of the situation that inevitably gets set up around the end of the season.

still fun though. :D

a linebacker would be huge, especially of the laurnaitis/mauluga calibre. i'm just not sure i would pass a chance to really solidify either line for it...this year anyway.

[NBT]

I look at it like this, the offense is playing well. The Oline is doing OK, not great but not a huge need anymore like it used to be. But the defense, with the exception of Mario, Okoye, Demeco, Dunta, with maybe Bullman now the way he is playing, the defense really needs help in this next Draft, hence I would go almost entirely defense, if things work out where we can.

[KJ3]

i gotta say i really believe half of the problem with this defense is scheme, or lackthereof. a real DC, suggs, a 2nd round safety/3rd round OLB probably turns this defense into everything we want it to be. i agree though, defense is getting favored in the next draft.

[NBT]

I completely agree with you. Either Richard Smith needs to go, or Kubiak needs to get off his neck and let him run the defense the way it is supposed to be run.

[NBT]

As we start into the month of November (where has this year gone?), my opinion is still a big strong quick MLB and a DE, would be my first two picks in the draft, barring something happening in FA in the meantime.

[Nconroe]

As we start into the month of November (where has this year gone?), my opinion is still a big strong quick MLB and a DE, would be my first two picks in the draft, barring something happening in FA in the meantime.

I agree with this right now. While I know we are young and need to mature in front 7, we need to get stronger there for sure.

[mussop]

After the game today (Minninsota) Im starting to think maybe we should be beefing up the middle of the OL. A Duke Robinson in the 1st and a Alex Mac in the 2nd would solidify our OL for years. We really need ot establish a dominating running game. It would keep our QB's from getting killed and keep our defense fresh.

Right now we are just getting overpowered by teams that are stout up the middle. Briesal and Myers are just not strong enough at the point of attack. It has been proven time and time again that stopping the run and being able to run consistantly is a winning formula. There is no better way!

[nero THE zero]

There's no way I draft OL over defense considering their comparative performances this season.

Our top 3 needs are DE, DT, and OLB in no particular order. I would also take a S, RB, and QB before an OL.

[KJ3]

qb is really starting to enter my frame of mind when i look at the draft. nothing stupid, but a 4th/5th...maybe a 3rd on a guy we can work on for a year or two until we get this two headed turnover monster out.

post vikings my draft order probably turns out like so:
1. S
2. DE
3. OLB
4. OL
5. QB
6. RB
7. CB

[NBT]

I like your positions, however I would reverse the order of the top 3 as follows: MLB (to stop rb's like AP), RDE to bolster the passrush, and S/CB to help with our pitiful secondary. While these are my priorities, I am really dissatisfied with a coaching staff who spends all week preparing for AD, then gives up 3 TDs passing to a predominantly run oriented team, and in the 4th quarter gives up 81 yds rushing to AD, giving him 139 for the afternoon. A complete team failure in my estimation.

[KJ3]

you know, honestly, i think we have our SS and ballhawk FS on the roster already. SS-adibi, FS- d-rob. bennett and molden on the corners, reeves the nickel. that would open it up wide for (1st) laurinitis in the middle, diles and ryans outside, mario/amobi/tj/okam/free agent/mid round pick on the line. i see that as a defense, while still having ample room for improvement, with no glaring holes. but who am i to question this defensive staff?

with that i would go
obviously 1 MLB
2 OL
3 DE/DT
4-7 any position involving the word "back"

[NBT]

Adibi is a puzzle to me. Seems he can't get on the field. I hadn't thought of him at SS, but you know you may have hit it right on the head there. I don't know about Dunta at FS, I'll have to do some more thinking on that. And it depends on how well Bennet and Molden pan out at the corners. I do like your out of the box thinking though KJ.

Harrison may grow on ya, the more he has a chance to get the feel of the way Kubiak likes his safeties to play. And we haven't even seen Barber play yet. Demps and Ferguson are kinda like fill-ins till we really have our secondary set.

[papabear]

Adibi is a puzzle to me. Seems he can't get on the field.

I think he's had some injuries that are holding him back. I think he was sick for a few weeks too.

[NBT]

I kinda made myself a promise to check on this thread, and the tone of it, as the season progressed. Well, we blew it big time against Baltimore at home. We were outcoached and outplayed embarrasingly in front of the home folks..........then on to Indy, where we had our best chance ever to beat them in their own stadium. Same old dreary result. It was close but no cigar. Now we are on the road to Cleveland. My bet is it will be yet another could have won, loss!

10 games down the commode and the only rookie who is playing well is our 3rd round gift, RB Slaton. Our 1st rnd pick OLT is suffering from second half tiredness, and is giving up way too many sacks. Adibi finally played at WOLB but got hurt. Looked good though. What the heck is wrong with our game planning and game management?

[painekiller]

Sunday made me think that CB might be the #1 need on this team, we need to have 3 top cover guys with Indy in the division, plus someone to cover the TE, Adibi did look solid at that in his first start, but he is way undersized to play OLB in the NFL, he was projected by many to be a SS in the NFL.

The kid from Ohio St Malcolm Jenkins might be moving to the top of my board right now. Molden can change this pick.

In the 2nd I am looking at Shonn Greene RB from Iowa.

I think Slaton and Green would make a wonderful 1 2 punch.

[gunn]

Sunday made me think that CB might be the #1 need on this team, we need to have 3 top cover guys with Indy in the division, plus someone to cover the TE, Adibi did look solid at that in his first start, but he is way undersized to play OLB in the NFL, he was projected by many to be a SS in the NFL.

The kid from Ohio St Malcolm Jenkins might be moving to the top of my board right now. Molden can change this pick.

In the 2nd I am looking at Shonn Greene RB from Iowa.

I think Slaton and Green would make a wonderful 1 2 punch.

I don't like that approach... It's soft and reactive. Build from the trenches, get physical and aggressive and start controlling some damn games!

I like the kid from Iowa though. He's a little older but he reminds me of Michael Turner.

[NBT]

Malcolm Jenkins didn't do much for Ohio State's cause this past weekend, although they did bury Michigan.

[NBT]

Although it pains me to say this, we still need help on the offensive and defensive line. A bigger center, and a mammoth NT would do it for me.

[painekiller]

A stout high motor run stopping DT, a stud RB to share carries, A QB for the future, and a pass rushing sack machine. Plus a HC that liked the aggressive defense we have played the last few weeks, and a DC that can draw up a game plan that can be aggressive.

[kRocket]

A stout high motor run stopping DT, a stud RB to share carries, A QB for the future, and a pass rushing sack machine. Plus a HC that liked the aggressive defense we have played the last few weeks, and a DC that can draw up a game plan that can be aggressive.

I would love for us to look hard at Mount Cody from the Tide. I hope he has a rather wide mean streak to go with his size and athleticism. This guy will be our Haynesworth.

As far as QB goes the future is NOW !

[painekiller]

I would love for us to look hard at Mount Cody from the Tide. I hope he has a rather wide mean streak to go with his size and athleticism. This guy will be our Haynesworth.

As far as QB goes the future is NOW !

I am not feeling the love for Mount Cody, IMO, he is a huge guy that is out of shape and not on the field enough. The way Franklin plays them I do not see Cody making it out of training camp.

With that said, I see Raji and his teammate Ron Brace as two high motor guys that bring it on every play they are on the field. Brace is currently a 3rd-5th rounder, and I do not see much of a difference between him and Raji.

Watch them this Saturday against V-Tech. BTW, I would like to take both of them and let them push each other.

[painekiller]

BTW, I would like to take both of them and let them push each other.

A draft of

1 B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College
2 Shonn Greene, RB, Iowa
3 Max Unger, C, Oregon
4 Clay Matthews, DE/OLB Southern California
5 Ron Brace, DT, Boston College
6 Ryan Purvis, TE, Boston College
7 John Wilson Parker, QB, Alabama


DL would be Mario, Raji, Okoye, Cochrin, backed up by Bulman, Nading, Okam, DelJuan Robinson and Brace. Matthews plays OLB and DE pass rusher.

Unger can play OC, OG and some OT. Greene is a stud who can take half the carries from Slaton. Last two picks are why not's, PS type picks, would be happy if they took another RB with one of those picks. Now let the team start to mature.

Would not upset me.

[NBT]

You really think John Wilson Parker will last to the 7th round? I mean I do like him but............?

[kRocket]

I am not feeling the love for Mount Cody, IMO, he is a huge guy that is out of shape and not on the field enough. The way Franklin plays them I do not see Cody making it out of training camp.

PK, I am not an expert by any means, but Walter has Cody rated as the No. 1 DT prospect and a Top 15 prospect while they rate B J Raji a second rounder. That would be a wider gap than I would be comfortable with. Mount Cody is a run stuffer which is our biggest weakness and one reason why we can't turn loose Mario and Amobi completely.

BTW, I think there might be a good chance that Jethro is leaving along with R. Smith. He has not shown much for the 3 high number one pick's that he has to work with.

[painekiller]

PK, I am not an expert by any means, but Walter has Cody rated as the No. 1 DT prospect and a Top 15 prospect while they rate B J Raji a second rounder. That would be a wider gap than I would be comfortable with. Mount Cody is a run stuffer which is our biggest weakness and one reason why we can't turn loose Mario and Amobi completely.

BTW, I think there might be a good chance that Jethro is leaving along with R. Smith. He has not shown much for the 3 high number one pick's that he has to work with.

And Walters doesn't even have Greene ranked.

We see this every year, some national lists rank the guys based on preseason hype, they start to raise the players and lower the players a little bit during the season. But most of the draft orders we see do not get worked out until after the bowls and combine number are in.

I can see guys like Raji and Cody dropping, and if I know I can get Raji in the second then I wait on him. Until the Combines and I have a better grasp on every players numbers, I think he is a 1st rounder. Come on Senior Bowl.

[painekiller]

You really thing John Wilson Parker will last to the 7th round? I mean I do like him but............?

Had to put some senior QB from a big time program that no one is talking about being a pro guy. I want to see the deep out, and the pocket awareness.

Is Parker one of my guys, no, would I complain about him, no. I was just using a named QB.

[painekiller]

A draft of

1 B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College
2 Shonn Greene, RB, Iowa
3 Max Unger, C, Oregon
4 Clay Matthews, DE/OLB Southern California
5 Ron Brace, DT, Boston College
6 Ryan Purvis, TE, Boston College
7 John Wilson Parker, QB, Alabama




If the draft where today the Texans would be picking #12, if we win next week that could jump all the way to #16.

At #12 I would target DE George Selvie South Florida
I think you might be correct that Raji might drop, the list I like to use has him as #49, so I take B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College round two.

Shonne Green is hard to get an early grip on, he is going to be 25 years old entering the draft so he might drop, if he is available in round 3 jump, other wise a few targets might be Jonathan Luigs OC Ark, or Marcus Freeman OLB Ohio St.

A draft of Selvie, Raji, Greene would be huge.

[painekiller]

Had to put some senior QB from a big time program that no one is talking about being a pro guy. I want to see the deep out, and the pocket awareness.

Is Parker one of my guys, no, would I complain about him, no. I was just using a named QB.

QBs I am going to track as possible picks:
Mark Sanchez USC
Hunter Cantwell Louisville
Chase Daniel Missouri
David Johnson Tulsa
Graham Harrell Tech, needs to add bulk
Colt McCoy Texas.
Bradford Ok.

Daniels is the one I hope drops and catches Gary's eye. He reminds me of Flutie, he does nothing but win.

[kRocket]

And Walters doesn't even have Greene ranked....

Courtesy of:

http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2009RB.php

11. Shonn Greene*, Iowa
Height: 5-11. Weight: 235
Projected 40 Time: 4.54Projected Round (2009): 3-4

10/26/08: Shonn Greene has been an absolute beast this year.
Through eight games, Greene has tallied at least 100 yards in every
single game, including a 217-yard, four-touchdown performance
against Wisconsin.


Sounds like Walterfootball.com might agree with you if he is our type of runner ( cut and up field ). He would be a nice combo with Slayton.

[NBT]

Really sad, into our 7th season, and we haven't solidified the Dline. I know we are still playing Casserly's pick in DT Travis Johnson, but B.J. Raji would look better there IMO. IF he could come right in and assume the DT/NT job. Major job would be to stuff the run and occupy blockers so the DE's could make the pass rush. I am really dissappointed that Okam didn't do better.

[painekiller]

Courtesy of:

http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2009RB.php

11. Shonn Greene*, Iowa
Height: 5-11. Weight: 235
Projected 40 Time: 4.54Projected Round (2009): 3-4

10/26/08: Shonn Greene has been an absolute beast this year.
Through eight games, Greene has tallied at least 100 yards in every
single game, including a 217-yard, four-touchdown performance
against Wisconsin.


Sounds like Walterfootball.com might agree with you if he is our type of runner ( cut and up field ). He would be a nice combo with Slayton.

Thanks for the link, reading the list another RB jumps out at me as a late round pick, Keiland Williams. He has looked impressive to me in the games I have seen, just not enough carries. He is a large back with some speed.

5th rounder?

[NBT]

The fact that Charles Scott was gettig all the touches at LSU says something was wrong with Keiland Williams, don't know what, but it was there.

[NBT]

I would love for us to look hard at Mount Cody from the Tide. I hope he has a rather wide mean streak to go with his size and athleticism. This guy will be our Haynesworth.

As far as QB goes the future is NOW !

In the Alabama Florida game, Cody looked like he had a really severe beer belly. I would much rather B.J.Raji.

[kRocket]

In the Alabama Florida game, Cody looked like he had a really severe beer belly. I would much rather B.J.Raji.You don't find many OL's and DL's with a 6-pack in the NFL. But, I might be interested in Duke Robinson (6-5: 330) in the 1st if he is around or maybe Herman Johnson (6-7: 349) since our rushing game is rounding into shape one of those guys maybe be just the ticket next to Winston.

However; I still like Cody as our NT. All thru college he has been double and triple teamed so Amobi and Mario should be turned loose (no more read and react).

[painekiller]

You don't find many OL's and DL's with a 6-pack in the NFL. But, I might be interested in Duke Robinson (6-5: 330) in the 1st if he is around or maybe Herman Johnson (6-7: 349) since our rushing game is rounding into shape one of those guys maybe be just the ticket next to Winston.

However; I still like Cody as our NT. All thru college he has been double and triple teamed so Amobi and Mario should be turned loose (no more read and react).

I said this before and will again, Cody doesn't fit the mold. He is a lazy player. Yes he has his moments, but he needs to many plays off to satisfy this staff. He has not sold me in the games I have watched him play in.

In his current condition he would die on day one of his first practice.

[NBT]

See, we do agree on some things PK. I fully agree with you on fatman Cody. Ton of talent, but lazy to a fault.

[painekiller]

See, we do agree on some things PK. I fully agree with you on fatman Cody. Ton of talent, but lazy to a fault.

We agree more times then not. And sometimes we have to call each other out. Doesn't mean we don't still agree on most things.

[painekiller]

We need to upgrade the defense and fast. At the same time we need depth.

Playing with a list that will change before the draft I came up with a mock draft:
1 Orakpo DE
2 BJ Raji DT
3 Zack Follett LB
4 Nick Harris S
5 Ron Brace DT
6 Chase Daniel QB
7 Jorvorskie Lane RB/FB

DEs Williams, Cochran, Orakpo, Bulman, (Nading PS)
DTs Okoye, Johnson, Raji, Robinson, Brace
Lbs Adibi, Ryans, Diles, Follett, Bentley Coley
CBs Robinson, Reeves, Bennett, Molden
S Ferguson, Wilson, Harris, Barber,

Hey it's a young front 7, but they should be able to get to the RB.

[nero THE zero]

Raji's projected as a first rounder as it stands.

I actually think there's a better chance that Orakpo falls to the second than Raji. Orakpo's relatively weak against the run and seems to be maxed out in potential - a get-what-you-see type of guy. That's the kind of player that you can steal in the second (see: DeMeco Ryans)

[painekiller]

Raji's projected as a first rounder as it stands.

I actually think there's a better chance that Orakpo falls to the second than Raji. Orakpo's relatively weak against the run and seems to be maxed out in potential - a get-what-you-see type of guy. That's the kind of player that you can steal in the second (see: DeMeco Ryans)

I agree with you about Raji, but I was working with the current thehuddlereport.com rankings. It is a pay list and it always starts out way out of sorts.

On most of the list made prior to December Raji was ranked in the 40's, he is just now starting to be ranked by most list in the mid 20s, closer to where I believe him to be drafted. At this time last year Adibi was a 2nd rounder, and Chris Johnson was a 3rd or 4th rounder, so needless to say the list are all in a state of flux this time of year.

The main thing I want to show is we can really go heavy Defense and make a huge difference on this team, but it makes us even younger then we are now.

[nero THE zero]

The main thing I want to show is we can really go heavy Defense and make a huge difference on this team, but it makes us even younger then we are now.
Cheers to that.

I think we have to make some kind of impact FA signing on the defense, if not solely for the reason of getting some more leadership and experience in there. The list of probable FA DEs is looking pretty unspectacular, so I'm hoping a good LB hits the market. Plus, that way, we can focus our draft on DL/S.

[barrett]

Cheers to that.

I think we have to make some kind of impact FA signing on the defense, if not solely for the reason of getting some more leadership and experience in there. The list of probable FA DEs is looking pretty unspectacular, so I'm hoping a good LB hits the market. Plus, that way, we can focus our draft on DL/S.

rookie LBs and S make an impact in year 1. rookie DL rarely do. I'd rather our FA money was spent on the DL if anything is available. DL draft help won't get here in time to help this staff so I doubt we go that route.

[nero THE zero]

rookie LBs and S make an impact in year 1. rookie DL rarely do. I'd rather our FA money was spent on the DL if anything is available. DL draft help won't get here in time to help this staff so I doubt we go that route.

Good point.

I just don't see any help available for the DL via FA unless, by some miracle, Suggs, Peppers, or Haynesworth make it to the market - and I still don't know how much I'd want to sign Haynesworth.

[painekiller]

rookie LBs and S make an impact in year 1. rookie DL rarely do. I'd rather our FA money was spent on the DL if anything is available. DL draft help won't get here in time to help this staff so I doubt we go that route.

A name I started pimping last year is again on the my radar, Jovan Haye DT/DE from Tampa Bay, his number are down this year but so are his snaps, Gaines Adams has been able to move him from the DE position to the DT position. He is listed as being 285, the size I like for a RDE, this would allow Mario to move over to his natural LDE position.

Someone to look at.

[nero THE zero]

A name I started pimping last year is again on the my radar, Jovan Haye DT/DE from Tampa Bay, his number are down this year but so are his snaps, Gaines Adams has been able to move him from the DE position to the DT position. He is listed as being 285, the size I like for a RDE, this would allow Mario to move over to his natural LDE position.

Someone to look at.

Good call, he will be a FA in 2009.
5/13/2008: Signed a one-year, $2.017 million contract. 2009: Free Agent

[painekiller]

1 Orakpo DE That is a 1st day pick he is beating on this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0fudWpk2mU)
2 BJ Raji DT Against Notre Dame (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAs7UtO5-S4&feature=related)
3 Zack Follett LB Last years highlights (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJCbZAFgn7I)
4 Nick Harris S
5 Ron Brace DT
6 Chase Daniel QB
7 Jorvorskie Lane RB/FB

A guy I would look real hard at for round 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJZLb6jdnZ0)

[Ol'Dad]

I do think that Lane out of Texas A&M is a great idea for somewhere in the 6th or 7th round. Really like the idea of him on first & goal.

[barrett]

Why would we spend a draft pick on a 300 lb RB. He came into this year knowing he had to work hard and make an impression on NFL scouts as a FB in order to get drafted. And then with all the motivation in the world, he actually went backwards and gained weight and had his worst season. You don't draft guys with no work ethic and limited upside.

If you want to sign him as a UFA I say fine, since their is no risk. But why throw away a pick on a guy who couldn't even be committed in college.

[nero THE zero]

Why would we spend a draft pick on a 300 lb RB. He came into this year knowing he had to work hard and make an impression on NFL scouts as a FB in order to get drafted. And then with all the motivation in the world, he actually went backwards and gained weight and had his worst season. You don't draft guys with no work ethic and limited upside.

If you want to sign him as a UFA I say fine, since their is no risk. But why throw away a pick on a guy who couldn't even be committed in college.
Because he went to A&M. Duh.

[papabear]

I do think that Lane out of Texas A&M is a great idea for somewhere in the 6th or 7th round. Really like the idea of him on first & goal.


I might be willing to give it a shot in the 7th round. Even as a UT fan, Lane's always frustrated the hell out of me. I wonder if he wouldn't have been batter off going to DE like Melton did at Texas. I know he was asked to lose weight at A&M and gained it instead. My guess is there will be some questions about his attitude and work ethic going to the NFL.

[kRocket]

The more games we win the further down the ladder at draft day we are falling. What used to be 8+ has now dropped to 13 and falling. The premium players are more than likely gone by now. WalterFootball has us taking William Moore, but 2 slots following us is Brandon Spikes. He is a MLB, and could be a good one. I believe this defense is 1-2 players away from jelling.

Question: Can DeMeco move to OLB effectively? And, Do you guys think Brandon Spikes could be one of our answers?

[NBT]

We agree more times then not. And sometimes we have to call each other out. Doesn't mean we don't still agree on most things.

Touche' Mon Ami

[NBT]

We need to upgrade the defense and fast. At the same time we need depth.

Playing with a list that will change before the draft I came up with a mock draft:
1 Orakpo DE
2 BJ Raji DT
3 Zack Follett LB
4 Nick Harris S
5 Ron Brace DT
6 Chase Daniel QB
7 Jorvorskie Lane RB/FB

DEs Williams, Cochran, Orakpo, Bulman, (Nading PS)
DTs Okoye, Johnson, Raji, Robinson, Brace
Lbs Adibi, Ryans, Diles, Follett, Bentley Coley
CBs Robinson, Reeves, Bennett, Molden
S Ferguson, Wilson, Harris, Barber,

Hey it's a young front 7, but they should be able to get to the RB.

Orakpo just won the Lombardi Award. He is projected to go in the top 10, if not the top 5. Do you advocate a tradeup to get Orakpo, PK? We will most likely draft from 12 to about the number 18 spot we held last year. I know I have steadfastly lobbied against trading up in the past, but this JUST might be the exception to the rule. BUT then we wouldn't be able to draft Raji, whom I have come to covet like you do.

[nero THE zero]

Orakpo just won the Lombardi Award. He is projected to go in the top 10, if not the top 5. Do you advocate a tradeup to get Orakpo, PK? We will most likely draft from 12 to about the number 18 spot we held last year. I know I have steadfastly lobbied against trading up in the past, but this JUST might be the exception to the rule. BUT then we wouldn't be able to draft Raji, whom I have come to covet like you do.

I would bet my house Orakpo isn't a top 5 pick. To the contrary, I would put good money that he falls to the late first or second round.

His frame is essentially maxed out, meaning he doesn't have that high ceiling potential a lot of early first rounders have. He also is relatively weak against the run. You get what you see with him, but he's not a guy that's going to put on 10 more pounds of muscle or someone who's still reaching his potential. For that reason, I think he's much more likely to fall.

[papabear]

I would bet my house Orakpo isn't a top 5 pick. To the contrary, I would put good money that he falls to the late first or second round.

His frame is essentially maxed out, meaning he doesn't have that high ceiling potential a lot of early first rounders have. He also is relatively weak against the run. You get what you see with him, but he's not a guy that's going to put on 10 more pounds of muscle or someone who's still reaching his potential. For that reason, I think he's much more likely to fall.


I don't know if he's maxed out or not, but I have heard some people propose moving him to LB.

[barrett]

I would bet my house Orakpo isn't a top 5 pick. To the contrary, I would put good money that he falls to the late first or second round.

His frame is essentially maxed out, meaning he doesn't have that high ceiling potential a lot of early first rounders have. He also is relatively weak against the run. You get what you see with him, but he's not a guy that's going to put on 10 more pounds of muscle or someone who's still reaching his potential. For that reason, I think he's much more likely to fall.

I don't know where he goes in the draft, but you are making this stuff up. His frame won't hurt him at all. I ask you which pass rushing DE fell after his senior season for being 260?

260 is plenty big to rush the passer in the NFL. Not to mention he is 6'4". That makes him bigger than either of the Colts great DEs Freeney and Mathis.

Orakpo may fall, I don't know enough about him to say either way, and it will depend on the combine for him like anyone else. But it won't have anything to do with being too small.

[NBT]

I would bet my house Orakpo isn't a top 5 pick. To the contrary, I would put good money that he falls to the late first or second round.

His frame is essentially maxed out, meaning he doesn't have that high ceiling potential a lot of early first rounders have. He also is relatively weak against the run. You get what you see with him, but he's not a guy that's going to put on 10 more pounds of muscle or someone who's still reaching his potential. For that reason, I think he's much more likely to fall.

Do you want me to remember you said this after the Draft? What is your house worth?

[nero THE zero]

I don't know where he goes in the draft, but you are making this stuff up. His frame won't hurt him at all. I ask you which pass rushing DE fell after his senior season for being 260?

260 is plenty big to rush the passer in the NFL. Not to mention he is 6'4". That makes him bigger than either of the Colts great DEs Freeney and Mathis.

Orakpo may fall, I don't know enough about him to say either way, and it will depend on the combine for him like anyone else. But it won't have anything to do with being too small.
Show me where I said he's too small. You're mischaracterizing my argument.

He's not a "natural" 260. He's very cut and bulked up, but his frame is maxed out. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but I am saying that's something I think will make him more prone to falling than players who have a bigger perceived upside.

[barrett]

Show me where I said he's too small. You're mischaracterizing my argument.

He's not a "natural" 260. He's very cut and bulked up, but his frame is maxed out. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but I am saying that's something I think will make him more prone to falling than players who have a bigger perceived upside.


How do you figure his frame is maxed out. In addition to being heavier than the other prospects he is also taller (more room to fill out). Either way it is irrelevant if you think he is maxed out because he is already more than big enough to play the position and doesn't need to grow another pound.

Again, when has a pass rushing DE of his size ever been down graded postseason because of concerns about their frame?

[nero THE zero]

Have you ever seen him? He's ridiculously muscular. Believe me, there's no more room for growth on his body.

And, again, you're mischaracterizing my argument; I never said there's concern about his frame. I said he is prone to dropping because he doesn't have the ceiling that top 5 picks tend to have. In that respect he's analogous to DeMeco; a productive college player who's very good, but doesn't have that perceived elite potential.

[barrett]

Have you ever seen him? He's ridiculously muscular. Believe me, there's no more room for growth on his body.

And, again, you're mischaracterizing my argument; I never said there's concern about his frame. I said he is prone to dropping because he doesn't have the ceiling that top 5 picks tend to have. In that respect he's analogous to DeMeco; a productive college player who's very good, but doesn't have that perceived elite potential.

He and Demeco are not analagous. Demeco was small and slow (top end 40 time slow). Neither of those things can be improved. Thus the "low ceiling" argument. Orakpo is ALREADY plenty big, so nobody is going to care if he can get bigger. He doesn't need to. This would be like saying a CB is going to fall because he runs a 4.2 and they know he can't get faster.

Again, I ask for an example of a DE who got this label and fell in the postseason.

[painekiller]

Orakpo just won the Lombardi Award. He is projected to go in the top 10, if not the top 5. Do you advocate a tradeup to get Orakpo, PK? We will most likely draft from 12 to about the number 18 spot we held last year. I know I have steadfastly lobbied against trading up in the past, but this JUST might be the exception to the rule. BUT then we wouldn't be able to draft Raji, whom I have come to covet like you do.

No, I would not trade up for Orakpo. Selvie is just about the same player and may be available at our pick.

I will jump in here on the side of Nero in the arguement, well kinda.

Orakpo is a one trick pony, a very desirable trick, but a specialist. At 260, he has little room to get larger, hence to be considered a normal everydown DE, Frenny is the expection.

I see Orakpo as a Merriman type, someone that goes into the 3-4 and excels because he does not have to concern himself with the run.

If I had only one hole and that was DE, then I would not have problem taking a pass rushing only DE in the 1st. Do I prefer it, no.

[NBT]

I would hope that Orapko would fall past #10, or #15, or even #20. But Tim Bullman, with his 4 sacks has shown that he can be the regular RDE, so Orapko could be the designated passrusher on 3rd and 4th down. Of course that is just my opinion at this moment, subject to change with events.

[nero THE zero]

I would hope that Orapko would fall past #10, or #15, or even #20. But Tim Bullman, with his 4 sacks has shown that he can be the regular RDE, so Orapko could be the designated passrusher on 3rd and 4th down. Of course that is just my opinion at this moment, subject to change with events.

I think we definitely need a 3rd down specialist, but I don't know how we could justify taking one in the first when we have needs to fill on positions that play all 3 downs.

[barrett]

I think we definitely need a 3rd down specialist, but I don't know how we could justify taking one in the first when we have needs to fill on positions that play all 3 downs.

I totally agree with this. I would think a one dimensional edge rusher to field opposite of Mario could be had in the 3/4/5 round. I hope that the first two rounds address DT and S.

overall
1 and 2 - DT and S
3/4/5 - big RB, Edge Rusher, Interior OL, maybe a mobile QB if we fall in love with one

6/7 - great special teamers, one of whom plays MLB.

[nero THE zero]

I totally agree with this. I would think a one dimensional edge rusher to field opposite of Mario could be had in the 3/4/5 round. I hope that the first two rounds address DT and S.

overall
1 and 2 - DT and S
3/4/5 - big RB, Edge Rusher, Interior OL, maybe a mobile QB if we fall in love with one

6/7 - great special teamers, one of whom plays MLB.

Agreed for the most part.

I'm starting to warm up to the idea of a safety, but I'd still rather have a LB. Who knows who Diles will come back from his injury? And he was definitely an upgradeable player as it stood pre-injury. Bentley is nice depth, as is Diles, but I think our SLB position could use a first round talent.

[painekiller]

Agreed for the most part.

I'm starting to warm up to the idea of a safety, but I'd still rather have a LB. Who knows who Diles will come back from his injury? And he was definitely an upgradeable player as it stood pre-injury. Bentley is nice depth, as is Diles, but I think our SLB position could use a first round talent.

Where's Roy when we need him. The reason given for the drop of SAM LB in importance is because he is a 2 down player. Most teams remove the SAM for nickle packages and against team like the Colts the SAM is not on the field very often. So in turn teams do not like tie up valuable 1st money in a guy the offense can scheme off the field very easily.

[nero THE zero]

Who's Roy?

[kRocket]

Who's Roy?

Roy Pickett. The old Forum's Draft Guru.

[NBT]

I think we definitely need a 3rd down specialist, but I don't know how we could justify taking one in the first when we have needs to fill on positions that play all 3 downs.

Aaahh, you justify it by the increased number of sacks, and the intimidation of the opposing QB.

[NBT]

Agreed for the most part.

I'm starting to warm up to the idea of a safety, but I'd still rather have a LB. Who knows who Diles will come back from his injury? And he was definitely an upgradeable player as it stood pre-injury. Bentley is nice depth, as is Diles, but I think our SLB position could use a first round talent.

Why not let DeMeco play his natural position of WLB, and draft a MLB like Laurainitis, or Mauluga? Diles will be fine at SLB. Bentley can back up all 3 LB positions. Adibi could be experimented with at SS!

[NBT]

Yeah, it's about time for RP to start jumping in again with his views on rookie prospects in the Draft.

[gunn]

After seeing some LSU games, i'm sold on Herman Johnson. He is projected by most as a second rounder and I think he would be a steal if he could be had there.

So a draft of...

1. George Selive - DE USF
2. Herman Johnson - OG LSU
3. Shonn Greene - RB Iowa
4. Patrick Chung - S Oregon
5. Ron Brace - DT Boston College
6. Tom Brandstater - QB Fresno State

... would look nice to me.

[NBT]

That works for me, however I don't see Patrick Chung lasting till the 4th rnd. Gone by the second IMO.

[mussop]

After seeing some LSU games, i'm sold on Herman Johnson. He is projected by most as a second rounder and I think he would be a steal if he could be had there.

So a draft of...

1. George Selive - DE USF Would be very happy if he were available here.
2. Herman Johnson - OG LSU To big for ZB
3. Shonn Greene - RB Iowa After combine wont last until 3rd
4. Patrick Chung - S Oregon Wont last until 4th
5. Ron Brace - DT Boston College Would be very happy if he were available here.
6. Tom Brandstater - QB Fresno State No more FS QB's here ever!!!!

... would look nice to me.

I like Johnson to. My bet is he goes to the Eagles, Cowboys, Steelers or Cardinals

[gunn]

I like Johnson to. My bet is he goes to the Eagles, Cowboys, Steelers or Cardinals

Very logical. From what I've seen of him I don't think he makes it out of the first round. He's dominant at the left guard spot, and in all honesty... I wouldn't mind if the Texans took him there either.

[gunn]

For a different look...

1. Aaron Curry - OLB Wake Forest
2. Herman Johnson - OG LSU
3. Conner Barwin - DE Cincinnati
4. Emanuel Cook - S South Carolina
5. Curtis Taylor - S LSU
6. Max Unger - C Oregon
7. Rodney Ferguson - RB New Mexico

[NBT]

Still think our best bet with that 2nd round pick would be DT - B.J. Raji.

The #1 pick should be either a LB or a Safety (Free).

The Draft is supposed to be good next year (2009) for OT's, Safeties, and TE's, so I would probably look for one of those too, if a good one is still there with, say our 4th round pick.

[gunn]

Couple of players to keep an eye on today....

OLB Aaron Curry of Wake Forest is going up against Navy right now on ESPN and also DE George Selvie of South Florida is taking on Memphis at 3:30 on ESPN2.

[Roy P]

Where's Roy when we need him. The reason given for the drop of SAM LB in importance is because he is a 2 down player. Most teams remove the SAM for nickle packages and against team like the Colts the SAM is not on the field very often. So in turn teams do not like tie up valuable 1st money in a guy the offense can scheme off the field very easily.

First of all, I'm here. Just soaking in the dialogue and watching games.

Secondly, my argument for a 1st round SAM is that it would have to be a player who could put his hand on the ground and be a DE on 3rd down. Last year, I was psyched about the prospect of getting Cliff Avril from Purdue since he had played LB his Junior year and was a DE his Senior year. The Lions drafted him in the 3rd round (so that means there's probably NO way I'd draft a SAM in the 1st).

Thirdly, I posted a couple of months ago that I liked Aaron Curry in the 3rd round (now he's a top 15 pick on some boards). So, it seems rather silly to start forcasting who I'd want when. Therefore, I've been laying low.

Fourth, I've come to some of the same conclusions that I see you guys have. We need to address our ability to play smash mouth football and convert 3rd and 2 by running the ball down the defenses' throat. The C position is one that I've been looking to establish for a while and I've got my eye on Alabama's Antoine Caldwell. Getting a mauler at RG would be nice too. Of course there's the idea of "light" OL in the later rounds under a Gibbs ZBS, but I wouldn't mind toying with the idea of putting a college OT with some size at the RG position (much like Philly did with Shawn Andrews). I've also stated before that I'm a big James Davis fan, but with Slaton on the roster, I'm not sure if I would go that route now. Looking at a kid who's 5'10" and 235lbs makes me happy at Iowa, I'm just not sure what round he'd be available in (Shonn Greene).

Next there is the issue of the QB. Sage has shown what he is. Schaub hasn't overwhelmed me with his decision making either. Since Matt Stafford is probably a pipe dream, I'll be watching Mark Sanchez in his bowl game closely. Maybe he's a guy we can groom to replace Schaub down the road.

Last, but not least, we have to look at the defense. A DE, a DT, a LB, a CB, and a FS would be nice. Not necessarily in that order. Here are some names: Derek Walker (Illinois), Corvey Irvin (Georgia), Clint Sintim (Virginia), Keenan Lewis (Oregon St), Courtney Greene (Rutgers).

[NBT]

It is really hard to speculate until the juniors declare, but I like your thinking.

[kRocket]

Wow, I am happy to see you back Roy !!

[barrett]

1 Orakpo DE That is a 1st day pick he is beating on this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0fudWpk2mU)
2 BJ Raji DT Against Notre Dame (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAs7UtO5-S4&feature=related)
3 Zack Follett LB Last years highlights (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJCbZAFgn7I)
4 Nick Harris S
5 Ron Brace DT
6 Chase Daniel QB
7 Jorvorskie Lane RB/FB

A guy I would look real hard at for round 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJZLb6jdnZ0)

With the motivation of NFL dollars, Lane just showed up for the shrine game 5'10" and 295.

[edo783]

With the motivation of NFL dollars, Lane just showed up for the shrine game 5'10" and 295.

Now that is a BIG running back. Talk about eating yourself out of the league.

[Roy P]

As we start into the month of November (where has this year gone?), my opinion is still a big strong quick MLB and a DE, would be my first two picks in the draft, barring something happening in FA in the meantime.

Watch Jason Phillips in the Shrine game this weekend. He's comparable to Laurinitis, but could be drafted in the 5th round. That's what happens when you don't play for The Ohio State University.