Official Search for a New Defensive Coordinator Thread - Bush Hired!

[Keith]

Seems some of our hopes for Gray returning to Houston are possibly shared by Gray himself, assuming he isn't offered any HC opportunities.


Gray a Wanted Man in Houston?

Redskins secondary coach Jerry Gray confirmed that, while he loves his job here, he is very interested in being a defensive coordinator again. He will interview with Detroit for its head coaching job, and while it isn't certain that he will land a head coaching gig, he seems very likely to get strong consideration for the job of defensive coordinator in Houston.

Several players believe that position is very intriguing to Gray (a former Houston Oiler with ties to that area), and expect him to leave the Redskins for a promotion. Safeties coach Steve Jackson has strong ties to members of the Texans' front office, and with their defense being reshaped, they might make a play for Jackson, too.


By Jason La Canfora | December 31, 2008; 5:49 AM ET

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/12/jerry_gray_a_wanted_man_again.html?wprss=redskinsi nsider

As I posted in another thread, I think Gray might be the ideal candidate for the Texans if Kubiak doesn't just give the job to Frank Bush. Gray interviewed here for the HC job when it was awarded to Kubiak, and he has had documented success as a DC on his resume.

The Steve Jackson speculation is also interesting... I'm sure many of us remember him from the Oilers. Jackson was a CB at Purdue, which I think must be the reason behind the comment on his ties to the front office. GM Rick Smith was his teammate at safety.

[coloradodude]

http://www.redskins.com/gen/coaches/Jerry_Gray.jsp

"From 2001-05, Gray served as defensive coordinator for the Buffalo Bills.

In 2004, Gray led a defense that finished in the top five in the NFL in touchdowns allowed (29), yards allowed per game (264.2), passing yards allowed per game (164.0) and sacks registered (45). The unit led the league with 39 turnovers forced.

In 2003, Gray’s defense finished the year ranked second in the NFL in total defense, second against the pass and eighth against the run.

Prior to his time in Buffalo, Gray served four seasons as an assistant with the Tennessee Titans, including the last two as defensive backs coach. He helped Tennessee finish No. 1 in total defense and pass defense in 2000."

[Big Texas]

So why did he take the job as a secondary coach if he was so successful as a DC? All joking to the side.

[Keith]

A couple reasons. First, as good as Gray's defenses were with the Bills in 2003 and 2004, they weren't so hot in 2005.

Second, Gray tried to become a HC, and notably lost to Kubiak here for that opportunity. He then interviewed to be the DC in Green Bay, but that job went to someone else. I think the coaching musical chairs were nearing the end by the time Kubiak was hired in 2006.

Lastly, Gregg Williams in Washington wanted him back. Gray had worked with Williams in Tennessee and again in Buffalo. Plus, I am guessing Dan Snyder probably was willing to pay Gray like a DC to be his DB coach.

[NBT]

Wasn't Greg Williams the DC for the Hags last year? Isn't he out of a job this year? Why not Greg Williams for our DC? He certainly seems to have the pedigree, it just remains do the Texans want him, and at what price? He won't come cheap!

[painekiller]

A couple reasons. First, as good as Gray's defenses were with the Bills in 2003 and 2004, they weren't so hot in 2005.

Second, Gray tried to become a HC, and notably lost to Kubiak here for that opportunity. He then interviewed to be the DC in Green Bay, but that job went to someone else. I think the coaching musical chairs were nearing the end by the time Kubiak was hired in 2006.

Lastly, Gregg Williams in Washington wanted him back. Gray had worked with Williams in Tennessee and again in Buffalo. Plus, I am guessing Dan Snyder probably was willing to pay Gray like a DC to be his DB coach.

Your leaving off a fact, Gregg Williams was the DC of Tennessee when he was hired to be the HC of Buffalo, he brought Gray, his DB coach from Tennessee to be his DC in Buffalo. When Williams was fired, and picked up by Washington Williams hired Gray as Gray's last option. Gray had interviewed for the HC position with us, and we decided late and most of the gigs where gone.

Williams and Gray's movement is normal, Williams likes his position coaches, Gray likes to work with Williams. But Gray has earned the right to be DC without Williams.

Gray is a victim of the very thing that keep Kubiak from being hired as a HC before. They worked under a person that was considered a genius on there side of the ball, so was it the HC or the coordinator he did the job.

[nero THE zero]

Gray's become my favorite for the position. Second to him in Coyer. I also wouldn't mind Marinelli.

I really don't want Bush though, I want some fresh blood and I want someone with success on their resume.

[Roy P]

Wasn't Greg Williams the DC for the Hags last year? Isn't he out of a job this year? Why not Greg Williams for our DC? He certainly seems to have the pedigree, it just remains do the Texans want him, and at what price? He won't come cheap!

I think I'd rather have Gray by himself or maybe accompanied by Steve Jackson who has the title of "Passing Game - Safteties" coach. Maybe if he were the "Entire Secondary" coach here, it would be considered as a promotion.

As for the Hags, they have Donnie Henderson on their staff. I like that guy.

I'm still waiting to see what the Bears are offering Marinelli.

[NBT]

Marinlli would improve the defensive line for sure. Gray, I'm not too sure about. He wanted to be a HC when Kubes got the job. He is still a position coach with Washington 3 years later.

[boyk352]

I heard Sean McDermott sounds a good option as well.
Here's an excellent comparison of some of the possibilities done by Matt in DGDB&D.
http://www.atexansblog.com/2009/01/04/shhim-huntin-wabbit-coaches/

[Roy P]

I heard Sean McDermott sounds a good option as well.
Here's an excellent comparison of some of the possibilities done by Matt in DGDB&D.
http://www.atexansblog.com/2009/01/04/shhim-huntin-wabbit-coaches/

McDermott is my top choice by far. DGDB&D basically summed up my opinion on how our defense should look with this post.


http://www.atexansblog.com/2008/06/17/a-revised-look-at-4-3-defensive-theory/

[Joshua]

Anybody else growing slightly concerned that the regular season has been over for almost 2 weeks and we still haven't heard of any coordinators even being scheduled to interview here. I mean, Williams and Gray (and every other coach that was on a team that didn't make the playoffs) were free to interview almost 2 weeks ago. I was certainly hoping we would be a little more proactive in our search. For instance, Profootballtalk is reporting that Nolan is close to getting the Packers' D coordinator job.

The Texans should have had a short list of candidates and if any of them were on staffs that did not make the playoffs, they should have been moving on evaluating them. Now, maybe they are doing this and it's just not being reported but I find it hard to believe that someone in Houston or in the city where the coach is currently on staff wouldn't have leaked this.

[popanot]

Anybody else growing slightly concerned that the regular season has been over for almost 2 weeks and we still haven't heard of any coordinators even being scheduled to interview here.No, I'm not concerned at all. Maybe they're waiting for McDermott or someone currently on staff with a playoff team. They may not be interested in Williams or Gray, and if that's the case, why bring them in?

[papabear]

Anybody else growing slightly concerned that the regular season has been over for almost 2 weeks and we still haven't heard of any coordinators even being scheduled to interview here. I mean, Williams and Gray (and every other coach that was on a team that didn't make the playoffs) were free to interview almost 2 weeks ago. I was certainly hoping we would be a little more proactive in our search. For instance, Profootballtalk is reporting that Nolan is close to getting the Packers' D coordinator job.

The Texans should have had a short list of candidates and if any of them were on staffs that did not make the playoffs, they should have been moving on evaluating them. Now, maybe they are doing this and it's just not being reported but I find it hard to believe that someone in Houston or in the city where the coach is currently on staff wouldn't have leaked this.

I'm not concerned about it. The Texans are pretty good about keeping things under wraps. I do have a feeling that Bush is getting the job. That is based on absolutely nothing....although McClain's piece about the search sounded a little like an attempt to soften the blow when Bush is hired. The chronicles never disguised a public relations piece for the Texans as actual jounralism have they? Seriously, I just have a gut feeling that it's going to be Bush.

McDermott and Gray would be my top choices, but I'm fine with Bush and would actually prefer him to some of the other names being tossed around.

[painekiller]

Not at all, KubiaK said he was taking a week off and then compiling the list of canidates. Now if we still do not have a DC by the Pro Bowl, then panic.

[popanot]

I wouldn't have a huge problem with Bush, I guess. However, I'd be a bit disappointed and really feel this team needs to bring in some fresh blood. Most of my disappointment or displeasure with it would come from the fact that if you're going to go with a guy that was already on staff (let alone one you had already flagged to be the DC), then why the hell didn't you make the move at the beginning of the season or when things were really bad? It's not like the Texans defense was anything special last year, and in fact they sucked and most media/fans were already on Richard Smith's ass for it. If you have that much confidence in the guy (Bush) to give him the job now, well then the move should have been made before the season. I say bring in a fresh, new approach.

[Joshua]

Not at all, KubiaK said he was taking a week off and then compiling the list of canidates. Now if we still do not have a DC by the Pro Bowl, then panic.

Well, this sort of bothers me too. It's not like Smith's firing came out of the blue or was based on anything he did in the last month of the season. Hell, a lot of people thought he may have saved his job during the last 6 weeks. Kubiak had to know by midseason that a change was likely. If so, why is he waiting until after a week's vacation to start compiling a list of replacements? What if after this week off and he starts putting together this list he discovers that Mike Nolan would be a good fit? Well, it's too late because Nolan was hired by the Packers while he was on vacation. And if you have staff to fill and want to get your pick of the litter, why are you vacationing now?

Now, I see I'm clearly in the minority on this and most don't have a problem with it. Also, I agree with those who think the coaching search is probably just a smokescreen before hiring Bush. However, if they are serious about looking outside the organization, you're telling me there isn't a single coach on any team that either didn't make the playoffs or lost in the first round that is worth at least bringing in and taking a look at? I find that hard to believe as well as showing a lack of due diligence. Maybe they prefer someone currently still in the playoffs. That's great and they should interview them when they can but that shouldn't stop them from pursuing other avenues at the same time. Clearly, other teams are already on the move to fill their vacancies. The Texans aren't and I don't see any way this could be viewed as a positive. Best case scenario is that it ultimately doesn't impact who we hire. But when the only outcomes are either negative or neutral, that's not good business.

As for keeping it under wraps, I just don't believe this is likely at all. Not only would the Texans have to keep it quiet but so would the coach being interviewed (and his family and friends) and the team he is currently with. Throw on top of this the notion that no one saw him at the facility, airport, restaurant around town, etc. I just can't believe that candidates have come to town to interview and literally no one knew about it.

[Joshua]

To further my point, this article indicates that the Bears may be close to signing Marinelli as their defensive line coach -

http://www.freep.com/article/20090107/SPORTS01/90107046/1048/sports

Now, Lovie Smith and Marinelli are friends and maybe the Texans would not have had a shot, but Marinelli is considered one of the best D line coaches in the business. Do you really think it is to the Texans' advantage to have their head coach on vacation, then come back and compile a list of candidates (which presumably will take some time as well), and then start the interview process? All the while, teams like the Bears are on the move and wooing potential candidates like Marinelli? How is it good for the Texans if Marinelli is hired by another team before Kubiak even sits down to decide whether he is a good fit?

[gunn]

To further my point, this article indicates that the Bears may be close to signing Marinelli as their defensive line coach -

http://www.freep.com/article/20090107/SPORTS01/90107046/1048/sports

Now, Lovie Smith and Marinelli are friends and maybe the Texans would not have had a shot, but Marinelli is considered one of the best D line coaches in the business. Do you really think it is to the Texans' advantage to have their head coach on vacation, then come back and compile a list of candidates (which presumably will take some time as well), and then start the interview process? All the while, teams like the Bears are on the move and wooing potential candidates like Marinelli? How is it good for the Texans if Marinelli is hired by another team before Kubiak even sits down to decide whether he is a good fit?

In all likelyhood they have no interest in running a Tampa 2 system.... If that is the case, why would you even consider a coach that would bring in and instill that type of defense.

[Roy P]

No, I'm not concerned at all. Maybe they're waiting for McDermott or someone currently on staff with a playoff team.


If that's the case, then I'll be more than happy. Just because nobody has seen a potential coach at the airport, that doesn't mean that Rick Smith and Kubiak haven't made any phone calls to let potential candidates know that they are interested in their services.

[Joshua]

In all likelyhood they have no interest in running a Tampa 2 system.... If that is the case, why would you even consider a coach that would bring in and instill that type of defense.

Because he is being hired as the D line coach, not the D coordinator so he wouldn't be the one deciding what defense to run. Since he is considered by many to be the best D line coach in football and we have 2 underperforming 1st rounders on our D line, tell me why we shouldn't at least be considering him for our vacancy at D line coach.

And maybe I'm going about it wrong by bringing up specific candidates. Forget Marinelli (or Gray or Williams) or any other specific candidate. I want someone to tell me why it is beneficial for the Texans to have their coach taking a week off while other teams are interviewing candidates before he even sits down to determine who his candidates are. It's that simple. If you can't tell me why it's good, rather than why it may not ultimately hurt us, I just don't think that's good enough.

[Joshua]

If that's the case, then I'll be more than happy. Just because nobody has seen a potential coach at the airport, that doesn't mean that Rick Smith and Kubiak haven't made any phone calls to let potential candidates know that they are interested in their services.

I don't disagree with this and I hope you're right, but in my opinion, serious candidates are generally brought in. Also, if Painekiller's information is correct, Kubiak wasn't even going to assemble a list of potential candidates until after his vacation. Hard to call people when you're coach is on vacation and hasn't provided a list of possibilities yet.

[gunn]

Because he is being hired as the D line coach, not the D coordinator so he wouldn't be the one deciding what defense to run. Since he is considered by many to be the best D line coach in football and we have 2 underperforming 1st rounders on our D line, tell me why we shouldn't at least be considering him for our vacancy at D line coach.

I thought you were referring to bringing him in as a defensive cooridinator. In any case... who knows why they didn't bring him in for an interview. Maybe they didn't want the stench of an 0-16 coach on this staff.

[papabear]

Kubiak had to know by midseason that a change was likely. If so, why is he waiting until after a week's vacation to start compiling a list of replacements?


I think this a case of reading to much into a soundbite. I'm sure Kubiak has had a list for a while, and I would bet that there has been at least some contact made...even if only through back channels. The Texans could have easily contacted 10 different guys and not brought them into town for interviews. I'm sure McNair has access to private jets. The chronicle is not known for it's tough investigative style...they just repeat what the PR guy tells them. My point is just because we haven't heard anything doesn't mean anything.

Just because another team hires someone who's name might have appeared in the blog-o-sphere as a potential candidate doesn't mean that the Texans were ever interested....or that the coach told the team that he wasn't interested. I'm sure that if we hired someone today, there would be a contigentcy fans complaining that we didn't take our time and that we should have waited to interview candidates from teams in the playoffs. All we can do is wait and see...

[Joshua]

I thought you were referring to bringing him in as a defensive cooridinator. In any case... who knows why they didn't bring him in for an interview. Maybe they didn't want the stench of an 0-16 coach on this staff.

Not trying to pick on you, Gunn, but, if Painekiller's info. is correct, we know why we didn't bring him in yet. Because Kubiak took a vacation and is just now deciding on who he wants to interview. In short, Marinelli may be off the market before Kubes even decided if he should interview him. As for the "stench" comment, nothing but speculation and if it were true, would be an indictment of this coaching staff. Also, anyone can make up a speculative reason for why any 1 particular candidate hasn't been interviewed and it gets us nowhere. I go back to my original question - Tell me why it is to the Texans' advantage to have their head coach take a week off before even beginning the process of deciding who to interview when other teams are moving on candidates.

This is probably being blown out of proportion, but the bottom line is that 2 of the generally considered best available defensive coaches (Marinelli and Nolan) are probably going to be off the market before the Texans decide who they want to interview. I don't see how any of you can think this is a good thing.

[Keith]

Joshua - valid question, but something else to consider... it would be in Nolan's and Marinelli's best interests (or anyone else's that might consider working for Kubiak) to at least call the Texans before accepting an offer from another team. If nothing else, the Texans could be used as leverage for those guys to negotiate a better salary.

And along the lines of what papabear said, unless someone tips off Mark Berman to head to the baggage claim at IAH, there is no telling what's happening 'behind the scenes' since we seem to have an otherwise passive sports news media in Houston. Also, if Gray or anyone else was interested in coming here, I imagine like a lot of job seekers his resume would already be on Kubiak's desk, vacation or not.

[Joshua]

Joshua - valid question, but something else to consider... it would be in Nolan's and Marinelli's best interests (or anyone else's that might consider working for Kubiak) to at least call the Texans before accepting an offer from another team. If nothing else, the Texans could be used as leverage for those guys to negotiate a better salary.

And along the lines of what papabear said, unless someone tips off Mark Berman to head to the baggage claim at IAH, there is no telling what's happening 'behind the scenes' since we seem to have an otherwise passive sports news media in Houston. Also, if Gray or anyone else was interested in coming here, I imagine like a lot of job seekers his resume would already be on Kubiak's desk, vacation or not.

Good points and I'm not actually as fired up about this as I'm coming across in my postings. However, I do think it's weird that we haven't heard a single name trickle out (other than Bush), much less confirmation of any contact/permission to talk to/interviews with any candidates. Add to this the fact that Kubes said he would take a week off and then decide who to interview and I'm not thrilled with what I'm hearing about our D coordinator search.

Maybe it's just the pessimist in me that the Texans have turned me into, but this isn't the first time that the Texans have moved in ways that made me scratch my head. The first couple times I thought, "They're professionals, I'm sure there's some reason for it that I just don't know or understand." Come to find out, there wasn't and their moves were, in fact, just as baffling as I originally suspected. Thus, when they behave in ways that make no sense to me, I'm less inclined now to wholesale speculate just to try and craft some answer which gives them the benefit of the doubt.

[papabear]

I'm not saying that your not right Joshua, only that all we're getting is one sound bite of Kubiak saying that he's going to take the week off....there's plenty of people who's idea of a week off is not being in the office for normal hours, and spending the whole time on the phone or computer calling/emailing about work. I am most definitely not one of those people, but Kubiak could be...and since he's an NFL coache he probably is.

[Joshua]

I'm not saying that your not right Joshua, only that all we're getting is one sound bite of Kubiak saying that he's going to take the week off....there's plenty of people who's idea of a week off is not being in the office for normal hours, and spending the whole time on the phone or computer calling/emailing about work. I am most definitely not one of those people, but Kubiak could be...and since he's an NFL coache he probably is.

I suspect you're right. I guess my complaint can be boiled down to this. I haven't seen any concrete information of anything the Texans are doing to fill the D coordinator position. I was hoping the team would take an aggressive and proactive approach to filling the position, as well as pursuing a number of candidates and getting outside Kube's comfort zone of guys he's previously worked with to ensure the best fit. I have seen nothing to indicate they are doing this and what little info. I've found suggests they are not. This is disappointing to me.

[Roy P]

I think this a case of reading to much into a soundbite.

I'm sure that if we hired someone today, there would be a contigentcy fans complaining that we didn't take our time and that we should have waited to interview candidates from teams in the playoffs...

Very true.

I kind of took Kubiak's soundbite to mean, don't bother me for another couple of weeks until I'm ready to tell you what I've decided.

Interviews and lists of candidates are distracting. If early word gets out as to who might be the top choice and that falls through, then the guy you end up with feels like he was not REALLY the one you wanted.

This is analogous to not telling the girl you took to the prom that the first 3 you asked turned you down.

Kubiak may be wanting to take a good hard look at what he has on defense and how he might want to see it used in the future. Perhaps we ought to be thankful that he's doing his homework before jumping into interviews. He may figure that a Tampa-2 or a 3-4 Defensive Coordinator might be a step in the wrong direction.

He might not to want to mix and match parts either. While Marinelli is being hired as a DLine coach, it's for Chicago, and they run the Tampa-2. If, Kubiak wanted to run a more attacking defense like the Eagles or Giants, then Marinelli's coaching would be the wrong techniques. Imagine bringing in Alex Gibbs to be the OL coach and tell him you wanted to run a mauling man blocking scheme. That would be a waste and not putting your coaches and players in a position to succeed. Also, he may be willing to allow the new Defensive Coordinator to pick his own asssistant coaches (at least replace the fired ones).

[Roy P]

Also, he may be willing to allow the new Defensive Coordinator to pick his own asssistant coaches (at least replace the fired ones).

I was doing some investigating on who we might consider. The Eagles' Jim Johnson is my guru, so I'm hoping for Sean McDermott. He might be able to bring along Otis Smith to be the Secondary coach. Perhaps Mike Caldwell could come along too. Their Special Teams Coordinator, Rory Segrest worked with Pete Jenkins at Auburn as a DL coach.

McD - http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/team/CoachBios.asp?coach_id=10
Otis Smith - http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/team/CoachBios.asp?coach_id=22
Caldwell - http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/team/CoachBios.asp?coach_id=25
Segrest - http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/team/CoachBios.asp?coach_id=4

Another option for the DLine coach... I might have to pilfer from the Panthers.

Sam Mills III is the Defensive Quality Control coach and works with DL coach Sal Sunseri. The Defensive Coordinator, Mike Trgovac, was the DL coach in Philly in 1998, when McDermott started with the Eagles.

http://www.panthers.com/Team/CoachBio.aspx?id=1936

http://www.panthers.com/Team/CoachBio.aspx?id=2130

[painekiller]

You know Kubiak taking a week off when he has not had a day off since early July does not bother me.

His sons are home from school this week and he can spend time with them this week. I do not have a problem with that. Kubiak has a pretty big rolodex as any NFL coach who has done this for as long as he has many "friend" I am sure he is catching up with this week. Just because we have not heard a thing does not mean a thing.

Relax.

As for Marinelli, I thought he would end up in Chicago or Indy, so him being reportedly offered a position with one them is a non story.

[NBT]

McDermott would be a prize catch, IMO. But since he has been with the Eagles for 10 years, it might be hard to pry him away.

[da Bull]

I'm sure Rick Smith has been on the phone whether Kubiak has or not. Also, most of the names with the exception of Marinelli have been somewhat rumored to be consideration for head coaching positions. As for McDermott, when Philly falls he may be the hottest name out there including head coaching rumors.

[Joshua]

I agree that McDermott appears to be a good candidate and if he ultimately gets the job, I'll be happy with the hire and all of my anxiety will prove to be unfounded. With any luck, this is what will transpire.

However, I really feel like the potential list of candidates is growing increasingly smaller. Looks like Nolan and Marinelli are gone. If either Williams or Gray were on the top of the Texans' list, I suspect we would have heard about it by now (I just don't recall coaching searches to have the level of secrecy as, say, draft boards). To me, it is looking more and more like we will go with Bush. Now, he may turn out to be a great D coordinator, but he simply does not have anything in his resume to suggest he will be (at least some of the other guys have proven themselves previously). If Bush gets the job, I think we're basically relying on Kubiak's belief that he will develop into a great coordinator, but there's not much else to suggest that. I like Kubes and he has done wonders with the offense, but the bottom line is during his tenure the Texans defense has been not only bad, but historically bad (Stephanie Stradley's blog on chron.com has some posts showing how the Texans' defense over the last 3 years has been one of the worst 3 year performances in league history).

Now, I'm hoping for the best and if Bush is the guy, I'll certainly give him a chance to prove himself. However, I can't help but be nervous if a self-admitted offensive coach who has presided over one of the worst defenses around simply elevates one of his buddies who, on paper, doesn't appear as qualified as numerous other candidates. In other words, I have no problem extending Kubiak a little blind loyalty when it comes to offensive decisions. However, defensively, his track record is terrible, no way around it, and thus, I can't blindly accept his choice if the candidate's resume doesn't match.

[cadams]

I think you have hit the nail on the head with this one. I think kubiak wants bush as DC and he is holding off for the big names to be gone so he can say that bush was the most qualified candidate interviewed.*


*hopefully i am way off on this

[papabear]

I think you have hit the nail on the head with this one. I think kubiak wants bush as DC and he is holding off for the big names to be gone so he can say that bush was the most qualified candidate interviewed.*


*hopefully i am way off on this

Kubiak knows he's on a short leash. He's well aware that the strong finish saved his job this year, but he knows he needs to make the playoffs if he wants to stick around. I think he's going to get someone he believes will make an impact, and sooner rather than later.

[cadams]

Kubiak knows he's on a short leash. He's well aware that the strong finish saved his job this year, but he knows he needs to make the playoffs if he wants to stick around. I think he's going to get someone he believes will make an impact, and sooner rather than later.

I truly hope you are correct

[bckey]

I agree with Joshua on this whole week off thing. The Texans should have already done some interviews with available candidates. This would allow you to move quickly when someone like Sean McDermott becomes available. How many times have you seen a coach or free agent go to a team for an interview and never leave. Alot of times they get signed without ever making it to the other teams on their list. You snooze you lose in the NFL.

[Joshua]

Now we're talking. Marinelli is in town to interview for either the DC or D line position.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6200476.html

Whether he proves to be the guy or not, I'm just glad that there is some indication that the Texans search is moving forward.

On other fronts, the Saints fired their D coordinator yesterday and are interviewing Gregg Williams for the job today.

[Arky]

..............
On other fronts, the Saints fired their D coordinator yesterday and are interviewing Gregg Williams for the job today.

I would put the Saints in with a whole bunch of teams like the Texans.... New Orleans, Houston, Denver, NYJ, Buffalo, San Francisco.... - a bunch of 7-9 to 9-7 teams with good offenses that could use better defenses. I think you could make a case for 6-10 Green Bay to belong in that group, too, as they lost a bunch of close games...

[Keith]

fyi - I renamed this thread to better encompass the conversation.

Marinelli is in town to interview for either the DC or D line position.

I think we can read this two ways. Either Marinelli is kicking our tires for a salary number he can take elsewhere to get more money from another team or the Texans are inclined to completely remake this into a cover-2 defense.

Regardless, I'm happy the team is talking to him, even if he isn't my first choice hire. It is a sign of progress, and a sign that Kubiak is willing to bring in a former HC to own that side of the ball here (assuming he's here to talk about the DC position... not sure why Kubiak would talk to DL candidates before DC ones).

Darn. Now I can't wait to see who else is interviewed next. :D

[nero THE zero]

fyi - I renamed this thread to better encompass the conversation.

I think we can read this two ways. Either Marinelli is kicking our tires for a salary number he can take elsewhere to get more money from another team or the Texans are inclined to completely remake this into a cover-2 defense.

Regardless, I'm happy the team is talking to him, even if he isn't my first choice hire. It is a sign of progress, and a sign that Kubiak is willing to bring in a former HC to own that side of the ball here (assuming he's here to talk about the DC position... not sure why Kubiak would talk to DL candidates before DC ones).

Darn. Now I can't wait to see who else is interviewed next. :D
I think him coming in for the d-line position is a bunch of bull for 2 reasons:
1. He's already talked to 2 other teams that he has connections with (Chicago and Seattle) about a D-Line position

2. It's unlikely we would hire a d-line coach without our future DC's consent

So, in those ways, it wouldn't make sense for us to bring him in for a d-line position and it wouldn't make sense for him to come here for a d-line position.

Regarding our defense being remade to a Tampa-2, we're not far off are we? I was under the impression that our personnel on that side was due for a huge makeover regardless of who claims the DC post, but what do we really need to field a starting 11 for a Tampa-2? A speed rushing DE, another LB or 2 and another safety to pair with Wilson? Anything else? We have the penetrating DTs, we have Mario, we have the undersized LBs, we have the press CBs, and we have one safety with range and pop. Anything else?

[mussop]

Im hoping Philli looses this week because I really want McDormott.

[papabear]

I think him coming in for the d-line position is a bunch of bull for 2 reasons:
1. He's already talked to 2 other teams that he has connections with (Chicago and Seattle) about a D-Line position

2. It's unlikely we would hire a d-line coach without our future DC's consent

So, in those ways, it wouldn't make sense for us to bring him in for a d-line position and it wouldn't make sense for him to come here for a d-line position.

Regarding our defense being remade to a Tampa-2, we're not far off are we? I was under the impression that our personnel on that side was due for a huge makeover regardless of who claims the DC post, but what do we really need to field a starting 11 for a Tampa-2? A speed rushing DE, another LB or 2 and another safety to pair with Wilson? Anything else? We have the penetrating DTs, we have Mario, we have the undersized LBs, we have the press CBs, and we have one safety with range and pop. Anything else?

He makes sense for the D-Line to me...especially if Bush is going to be the next DC. Our line fits a tampa 2 pretty well. The DT's are more of the quick pentrating type, think Sapp, than the big hogs in the middle. I don't think we're going to switch, but Marinelli should be able to work with what we have along the D-line. I don't know if I want Demeco to have to haul but down field on every snap, and we definitely don't have the safeties for it, but I think certain elements of that system could mesh with what we have.

I think it would be a huge hire if it'w the D-Line, and I would be OK with him as DC....as long as he's willing to tailor things to what we have and not be a slave to "his" system. I think that will be a factor with any coach we hire. Kubiak's going to want someone who can work with what we have right now. Not someone who needs to overhaul a lot of things before it could work. In other words, I really think it's going to be Bush at DC.

[painekiller]

He makes sense for the D-Line to me...especially if Bush is going to be the next DC. Our line fits a tampa 2 pretty well. The DT's are more of the quick pentrating type, think Sapp, than the big hogs in the middle. I don't think we're going to switch, but Marinelli should be able to work with what we have along the D-line. I don't know if I want Demeco to have to haul but down field on every snap, and we definitely don't have the safeties for it, but I think certain elements of that system could mesh with what we have.

I think it would be a huge hire if it'w the D-Line, and I would be OK with him as DC....as long as he's willing to tailor things to what we have and not be a slave to "his" system. I think that will be a factor with any coach we hire. Kubiak's going to want someone who can work with what we have right now. Not someone who needs to overhaul a lot of things before it could work. In other words, I really think it's going to be Bush at DC.

You do know they do not just run one type of defense, right? The Tampa 2 is just one of the coverages they all run.

The main thing is he coaches 4-3 as opposed to 3-4.

[mussop]

This is the D I want.


2. The MLB is freed to roam and ad-lib to make plays, allowing us to take full advantage of DeMeco’s range/instincts. (Seriously, DeMeco was born to play in this system.)

3. Rather than read-and-react at the line when fulfilling gap responsibilities, the initial responsibility for the D-line in this system is to get 1.5 to 2 yards up field, then flow to the ball.

4. The D-line is freed to stunt and twist more than in a standard 4-3.

[nero THE zero]

He makes sense for the D-Line to me...especially if Bush is going to be the next DC. Our line fits a tampa 2 pretty well. The DT's are more of the quick pentrating type, think Sapp, than the big hogs in the middle. I don't think we're going to switch, but Marinelli should be able to work with what we have along the D-line. I don't know if I want Demeco to have to haul but down field on every snap, and we definitely don't have the safeties for it, but I think certain elements of that system could mesh with what we have.

I think it would be a huge hire if it'w the D-Line, and I would be OK with him as DC....as long as he's willing to tailor things to what we have and not be a slave to "his" system. I think that will be a factor with any coach we hire. Kubiak's going to want someone who can work with what we have right now. Not someone who needs to overhaul a lot of things before it could work. In other words, I really think it's going to be Bush at DC.
I think you misunderstood me. I agree that our personnel is a better fit than some may think. What I'm saying is that it doesn't make sense for either us, nor Marinelli, for him to come in and interview for the d-line position.

If Bush was the DC-in-waiting, as you suggest, why wait to announce so until after his position coaches are hired? Do you think we are trying to be deceptive and lure potential position coaches in under the supposition that they have a shot at the DC spot? Also, if Bush is the DC-in-waiting, why even give the notion that Marinelli has the opportunity at the DC spot?

For Marinelli, it makes no sense to come to Houston to interview for a D-line job when he has two teams that he is connected with who have already interviewed him for the same position. Granted, money is a consideration, as is the talent he would have to work with here in Houston. But, you'd have to think that his next tenure at d-line coach (if there is one in his future) will be a short one. So, I think it'd be more advantageous for him to work with his guys and his system to have quick success and to facilitate connections that could blossom into a DC gig faster than a semi-rebuilding job here in Houston.

And, I keep coming back to the sticking point that a team looking for a coordinator generally looks for the coordinator first and then lets him fill in his positional vacancies. To do otherwise would undermine your chances at landing a quality coordinator.

I just don't think it makes sense for us to bring him in for the d-line position.

[papabear]

You do know they do not just run one type of defense, right? The Tampa 2 is just one of the coverages they all run.

The main thing is he coaches 4-3 as opposed to 3-4.

um yea.....In my world Tampa 2 refers to a "system" and a cover 2 refers to a basic type of coverage that everyone runs. I also realize that the term "Tampa 2" is almost as overused as "west coast offense". When I say Tampa 2 I am referring to a system that emphasizes speed over size from the front 7, 2 safeties covering the deep half (hence the 2), CB's who generally press at the LOS on WR's without being asked to play man coverage. In this system the MLB is often asked to get a very deep drop to protect the middle. Yes, I understand that there is literally thousands of different things so-called Tampa 2 teams can do within this scheme.

My point is that I see elements of that that match our personnel and others that don't. Regardless of who we hire I just want someone who will figure out what our personnel does best and fit his scheme to match that. Not just use the same things that worked for him on another team.

[papabear]

I think you misunderstood me.

I just don't think it makes sense for us to bring him in for the d-line position.


I didn't misunderstand you as much as just got off on a rambling tangent. After looking at the article I don't think the Chronicle knows anything more than he is here. I suspect he's here for the DC, but it could be nothing more than they just asked him to come to town and talk. He has nothing to lose by interviewing for either position or both if for no other reason than leverage.

Garrett interviewed for the Cowboys head coaching name and then was named the OC....not that I want to model things on the way Jerrah does it.

[Roy P]

I suspect he's here for the DC, but it could be nothing more than they just asked him to come to town and talk. He has nothing to lose by interviewing for either position.

We have nothing to lose either by interviewing him. Nobody knows what may be gleened from the interview. Perhaps during the course of the interview, the Texans may be persuaded that the Tampa-2 is or is not the best system to utilize for our roster.

I'm imagining one of those HGTV shows where a couple of designers show what they want to do on a project. The family then decides that one of the options is closer to their tastes. It is sometimes easier to determine what you like by seeing what you don't like.

I'm thinking about the Colts and Bucs and trying to contemplate a John Lynch or Bob Sanders on our roster.

[Roy P]

Anybody watch what Charlie Strong is doing to Oklahoma? I wonder if he'd like a shot at an NFL Defensive Coordinator position.

[Nconroe]

The Gators were tough weren't they? I was hoping for Big 12 but ...

[Keith]

well well well...

the chron has updated their article online to say that Marinelli is in fact interested in being a DL coach again.


The Texans interviewed former Detroit Lions coach Rod Marinelli for their vacant defensive line job today.

Marinelli came to Houston from Detroit and spent the day at Reliant Stadium before returning to Michigan.

“It was an excellent interview,” coach Gary Kubiak said. “I have a lot of respect for Rod. He’s as good a defensive line coach as I’ve seen. He’s a tough guy with an aggressive style. He’d bring the kind of toughness to that side of the ball that (assistant head coach) Alex (Gibbs) brought to the offense.”


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6200476.html

I have no beefs with Marinelli coaching the DL here... I think he might be the man to get the most out of Okoye's skillset. But talking to a DL coach candidate without a DC named is a little strange.

ETA - Looks like Berman tracked Marinelli down at the IAH baggage claim (http://www.inthebullseye.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7013&postcount=26). :D
"It was great," Marinelli said in an interview with FOX 26 Sports at Bush Intercontinental Airport as he prepared to return to Detroit. "It was a great visit."

Marinelli did not disclose when the Texans said they would be getting back to him.

"We'll wait for the next few days and see how things work out," Marinelli said.


http://www.myfoxhouston.com/myfox/pages/Sports/Detail?contentId=8216373&version=3&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=6.1.1

[nunusguy]

Perhaps during the course of the interview, the Texans may be persuaded that the Tampa-2 is or is not the best system to utilize for our roster.

I dunno, what are the implications personnel wise in a conversion to Tampa-2/Cover-2 ? One thing I'm aware of is a team does not require as much man coverage by its corners, so the search for premiere cover CBs is no longer required since they routinely get help from a safety. Of course this may just shift the needs of the Def-Backfield to acquiring more versitale, competant safeties ?
What about the personnel requirements for the front 7 in the Cover-2 , or is that independant of the DB schemes ?

[gunn]

I really hope they, at the very least, bring in McDermott to interview for the job.

[Mike]

I really hope they, at the very least, bring in McDermott to interview for the job.

As long as the Iggles are still playing, then they cannot contact him. Once they are done, then they can request permission to interview him.

[papabear]

I dunno, what are the implications personnel wise in a conversion to Tampa-2/Cover-2 ? One thing I'm aware of is a team does not require as much man coverage by its corners, so the search for premiere cover CBs is no longer required since they routinely get help from a safety. Of course this may just shift the needs of the Def-Backfield to acquiring more versitale, competant safeties ?
What about the personnel requirements for the front 7 in the Cover-2 , or is that independant of the DB schemes ?


Based on my understanding of the Tampa 2 system, which is probably wrong, our front seven would fit. It emphasizes speed over size, and needs penetrating interior lineman. I think our CB's are better suited to man coverage. Reeves was better here, relatively speaking, than in Dallas where he was asked to play more zone. Robinson is on record saying that he prefers man. I think our corners would be OK in this system, but the safeties is what worry me. I'm also not sure if the Tampa 2 would be the best system for Demeco....everybody has a little different flavor of the scheme, like the "west coast offense", so it's really hard to say. I know Urlacher is often asked to take a deep drop to the middle of the field in the bears scheme. I would like Demeco to have a little freedom though.

[cland]

My opinion is that there is a whole lot of undercurrent that never shows up in the chronicle. As several have said...there's only 32 head coaches, 32 D-Coordinators, etc. and plenty of opportunity for them to chat. I don't think Kubiak, Smith, and McNair go in to this process with a 'let's just see what happens mentality.'

My guess is that before the firing they had already settled on an itemized DC list, and I would venture to guess that those coaches agents have already been...umm...nudged--regardless of league rules.

I would love to see DC: Sean McDermott along with DL: Ron Marinelli. I just can't imagine a better combination of defensive styles, position focus, and aggressiveness.

[cland]

Aww man, after writing the above post I happened across a post by AJ: http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2009m1d9-Marinelli-interviews-for-Texans-vacant-defensive-line-coach-position

Turns out he has a similar take...and he posted it earlier...which makes me appear to be a take-stealer....*poubt*

[barrett]

Based on my understanding of the Tampa 2 system, which is probably wrong, our front seven would fit. It emphasizes speed over size, and needs penetrating interior lineman. I think our CB's are better suited to man coverage. Reeves was better here, relatively speaking, than in Dallas where he was asked to play more zone. Robinson is on record saying that he prefers man. I think our corners would be OK in this system, but the safeties is what worry me. I'm also not sure if the Tampa 2 would be the best system for Demeco....everybody has a little different flavor of the scheme, like the "west coast offense", so it's really hard to say. I know Urlacher is often asked to take a deep drop to the middle of the field in the bears scheme. I would like Demeco to have a little freedom though.

For Tampa 2 personell...

The only thing we lack in the front 7 is a speed rushing DE who I hope we aquire regardless of what defense we run next year.

As for the secondary, our CBs fit ok. Dunta is WAY better in zone regardless of what he might have said. Any time he plays man and has to turn and run with a WR he goes from a defensive leader to a liability. He is far better in zone with eyes on the QB. Plus, one of the keys for a cover 2 CB is the ability to close and tackle, and Dunta is as good as any CB in the NFL at that.

The biggest hole in any effort to run a cover 2 system is our safeties. Is anyone comfortable with 2 of our safeties each plyaing half the field and ending up in 1 on 1 battles when a WR goes deep down the sideline? We would need to scrap the hybrid SSs we use for guys with cover skills who play with eyes on the QB. eugene Wilson would not be bad, but starting harrison/brown/earl/etc.. in a cover 2 would be brutal.

[nero THE zero]

Aww man, after writing the above post I happened across a post by AJ: http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2009m1d9-Marinelli-interviews-for-Texans-vacant-defensive-line-coach-position

Turns out he has a similar take...and he posted it earlier...which makes me appear to be a take-stealer....*poubt*

That's definitely a possibility. I guess I just don't understand the whole "DC search" charade if they have already settled on Bush as the DC.

[papabear]

Aww man, after writing the above post I happened across a post by AJ: http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2009m1d9-Marinelli-interviews-for-Texans-vacant-defensive-line-coach-position

Turns out he has a similar take...and he posted it earlier...which makes me appear to be a take-stealer....*poubt*


That's OK. That about somes up my "take" as well....even though I hate that term because Jim Rome is a D-bag.

[Roy P]

I dunno, what are the implications personnel wise in a conversion to Tampa-2/Cover-2 ? One thing I'm aware of is a team does not require as much man coverage by its corners, so the search for premiere cover CBs is no longer required since they routinely get help from a safety. Of course this may just shift the needs of the Def-Backfield to acquiring more versitale, competant safeties ?
What about the personnel requirements for the front 7 in the Cover-2 , or is that independant of the DB schemes ?

Well, I will submit that when Sapp was doing his thing, he had the benefit of Booger McFarland. When Tommie Harris was healthy and playing like a Pro-Bowler, he had Tank Johnson beside him. I don't consider Travis Johnson to be either to allow Okoye to become "Baby Sapp" by any stretch of the imagination.

As for our CBs, Fred Bennett and Molden would be ideal in terms of size. However, I'm not convinced that playing zone with them is their strong suit. Generally, Cover-2 CBs are big, slow, and excel in Zone coverage. This year's draft has an ideal candidate in Victor Harris from Va Tech.Bennett, Molden, Robinson, and Reeves were not brought here for that. Could they do it? Possibly, but I'm not thinking that is using your players' strengths.

The FS position is generally a large college CB who is converted to play S. Dunta Robinson might be moved to that position, but he does lack the typical size.

DeMeco running down the middle of the field with Dallas Clark worries me considerably.

Other than that, we'd fit like a hand in a glove running the Tampa-2. :rolleyes:

[papabear]

For Tampa 2 personell...

The only thing we lack in the front 7 is a speed rushing DE who I hope we aquire regardless of what defense we run next year.

Agreed. Although, if we turn our DT's loose to penetrate upfield Okoye and Johnson's effectiveness should go up, slightly lessening the need for a speed rusher. Still a need though.

As for the secondary, our CBs fit ok. Dunta is WAY better in zone regardless of what he might have said. Any time he plays man and has to turn and run with a WR he goes from a defensive leader to a liability. He is far better in zone with eyes on the QB. Plus, one of the keys for a cover 2 CB is the ability to close and tackle, and Dunta is as good as any CB in the NFL at that.

I agree with this on Dunta too. The Tampa 2 would let him get on the line and jam the WR. I think he would be more effective than he realizes. He can struggle when he's left alone. Even before the injury, but with the rules these days that's all corners. The key is he actually has to trust the safeties behind him. .

The biggest hole in any effort to run a cover 2 system is our safeties. Is anyone comfortable with 2 of our safeties each plyaing half the field and ending up in 1 on 1 battles when a WR goes deep down the sideline? We would need to scrap the hybrid SSs we use for guys with cover skills who play with eyes on the QB. eugene Wilson would not be bad, but starting harrison/brown/earl/etc.. in a cover 2 would be brutal

My fear as well.


My hope is that we end up wth a defense that's comfortable in a lot of different schemes. We have a young defense (team actually) but hopefully our next D-Coordinator+more experience for the players will mean that we can mix things up and be effective doing a lot of different things in the years to come. I think that was Smith's biggest fault. He tried to do a lot of differnt things without getting his guys very good at any of them.

[teufelhunden]

Hello all I am new to the board and I have been reading this thread in hopes of getting everyones opinion. I am left with a few questions.


How do the candidates that have been mentioned fit with the coaches that we have? What are we going to do with Rhodes, Bush, et.al when we hire these guys?

What hand did the coaches that remain on our staff have in the abysmal defensive performance that we witnessed this year? I know that Bush was the first choice when we hired Smith, What has changed?

I would appreciate anyones insight or opinion.

[Roy P]

Hello all I am new to the board and I have been reading this thread in hopes of getting everyones opinion. I am left with a few questions.


How do the candidates that have been mentioned fit with the coaches that we have? What are we going to do with Rhodes, Bush, et.al when we hire these guys?

What hand did the coaches that remain on our staff have in the abysmal defensive performance that we witnessed this year? I know that Bush was the first choice when we hired Smith, What has changed?

I would appreciate anyones insight or opinion.

Welcome, Devildog.

My personal opinion is that Rhodes and Bush were simply implementing Smith's game plan. They probably broke down film, looked at tendencies, and coached the players just like most assistants do in the league.

I'm not really sure how much of a hand they had in the "identity" of this defense. Were they making defensive calls? I doubt it.

Now, both coaches are esteemed by Kubiak so they will definitely get the benefit of the doubt. Should they be held accountable? I would have to say yes. Just as should most of the players on the defense.

We don't really need to blow up the entire defense and staff. There are some things we do well. We just need the right leadership to reinforce success and play to our strengths.

[kravix]

OOHRAH!! And god bless our fellow Marines!

Personaly, I think that the job is Bush's. Rhodes was the DC in Denver when Bush was the LB coach there. I think that Bush getting the DC job here, like Kubiak wanted origonaly, makes sense. Especially when you look moves like bringing in Gibbs to help Shanny. It makes sense to bring in Rhodes to help Bush.

If Kubiak doesnt hire Bush as the DC and picks someone completly outside of his circle, then it is possible that Bush and Rhodes are gone. However, if Kubiak trends like he usually does and hires people he knows from the Broncos organization they both have a shot at sticking.

As for arguments about giving Bush authority of Smtih later in the season if he was truely the next candidate, it doesnt make sense. Why keep a DC all season that has basically been fired? Bush may have had input later in the season, but to ponder why he wasnt given full reign over Smith and the Def is crazy. No organization works that way, it breeds discontent among the staff and players.

I see alot of people wishing for a speedy edge rusher, and I disagree. I would prefer not to turn into the Colts. A perverbial playoff team that cannot advance becasue their run def is a joke. I want a team that can stop the run and be creative enough to rush the passer with 4 or 4+1. An edge rusher would be nice in nickle, but the premium some are putting on that role is way to high.

Which leads me to the Tampa 2 style def. I am not a big fan. Although up front our players seem to fit that mold I would prefer something with bit of meat on the back end.

[Bigtinylittle]

Hello all I am new to the board and I have been reading this thread in hopes of getting everyones opinion. I am left with a few questions.


How do the candidates that have been mentioned fit with the coaches that we have? What are we going to do with Rhodes, Bush, et.al when we hire these guys?

What hand did the coaches that remain on our staff have in the abysmal defensive performance that we witnessed this year? I know that Bush was the first choice when we hired Smith, What has changed?

I would appreciate anyones insight or opinion.

Welcome to the board. There aren't many posters here, but the quality is very high. Not a lot of mindless ranters here. Hope you like it.

I personally suspect Bush is going to be the man, and if he isn't he will still stick around because Kubiak wants him here. If the new guy wants a job he will have to be OK with that.

As far as who to blame for the failure, to me one of the hardest things in football is figuring out who to blame when things don't work out. I think a lot of times head coaches and owners go more by gut feeling than anything else.

I'm glad to see Smith gone, though. Not because I know he wasn't qualified, but more because I think it makes it more likely that we will have a more risk-taking, agressive style next year.

[mussop]

As long as the Iggles are still playing, then they cannot contact him. Once they are done, then they can request permission to interview him.

Hopefully he is the main target and that is why talk has been scarce. We are just waiting for him to get eliminated. Cmon Giants kick some ass this week.

[teufelhunden]

Thanks for the insight gentlemen. I like Bush but was on the fence about his DC ascension. I do not know his chemistry in the locker room and I wonder if by hiring him we are sending the right signals to our D. We need drastic improvement from that side of the ball. I dont know if that change can come from someone associated with the old D. While the choice of Bush is wrought with danger, wholesale changes to the staff is also risky.

I had a Sgt. Major who always said " If you are going to be a bear, Be a grizzly bear." So my choice would be someone outside the circle. Obviously someone who employs a defense that can utilize the players we have. As we have seen, They can be effective when the are aggressive.

Whomever is selected had better be aggressive, starting in the draft. A rock in the middle of our D-line would do wonders for the rest of it. As would a Taylor Mays type Safety. IMHO.

Thanks again.

[nunusguy]

I had a Sgt. Major who always said " If you are going to be a bear, Be a grizzly bear." So my choice would be someone outside the circle. Obviously someone who employs a defense that can utilize the players we have.
I dunno, but it also seems like perverse logic to me to modify the composition of the defensive personnel to conform to the philosophy of assistant coachs instead of vice versa and supplimenting what we've got thru the Draft.
BTW I like the jarhead expression about the bear, but why can't we find a grizz within the circle ?

[teufelhunden]

"BTW I like the jarhead expression about the bear, but why can't we find a grizz within the circle ?"

I feel if we would have had a real grizz on that staff he would have bitten someone. At least he would have raised more sand than anyone did.

[Roy P]

Cmon Giants kick some ass this week.

The other side of the coin is perhaps we go after one of the Giants assistants. Perhaps someone has had Spags rub off on them.

Andre Curtis - Def QC (Young guy)
http://www.giants.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=21

Peter Giunta - Secondary/Cornerbacks (Previous DC of Rams SuperBowl team)
http://www.giants.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=20

David Merritt - Secondary/Safeties (Young guy)
http://www.giants.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=12

Bill Sheridan - Linebackers (Lots of college experience)
http://www.giants.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=11

Mike Waufle - DLine (Tuck, Osi, Kiwi, Strahan, Cofield productive under him)
http://www.giants.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=14

I'd consider any of these guys as legitimate candidates.

[Joshua]

The other side of the coin is perhaps we go after one of the Giants assistants. Perhaps someone has had Spags rub off on them.

Andre Curtis - Def QC (Young guy)
http://www.giants.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=21

Peter Giunta - Secondary/Cornerbacks (Previous DC of Rams SuperBowl team)
http://www.giants.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=20

David Merritt - Secondary/Safeties (Young guy)
http://www.giants.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=12

Bill Sheridan - Linebackers (Lots of college experience)
http://www.giants.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=11

Mike Waufle - DLine (Tuck, Osi, Kiwi, Strahan, Cofield productive under him)
http://www.giants.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=14

I'd consider any of these guys as legitimate candidates.

Just to brush up on league rules, could we have asked for permission to speak with any of these guys during the bye week? I thought I saw where a couple teams asked for permission to speak with Spags during the bye week and my recollection is that you can do this if it would be a promotion. I also seem to remember that it had to be one of the teams with a bye (thus, we couldn't ask to speak with McDermott). Anybody know the rules on this?

[bckey]

The other side of the coin is perhaps we go after one of the Giants assistants. Perhaps someone has had Spags rub off on them.

Andre Curtis - Def QC (Young guy)
http://www.giants.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=21

Peter Giunta - Secondary/Cornerbacks (Previous DC of Rams SuperBowl team)
http://www.giants.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=20

David Merritt - Secondary/Safeties (Young guy)
http://www.giants.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=12

Bill Sheridan - Linebackers (Lots of college experience)
http://www.giants.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=11

Mike Waufle - DLine (Tuck, Osi, Kiwi, Strahan, Cofield productive under him)
http://www.giants.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=14

I'd consider any of these guys as legitimate candidates.

I really don't like any of those guys for dc except for maybe Merritt. Sean McDermott is really about the only position coach I could see coming in as dc at this time besides our own Bush who I really don't want either. Other than that I think they will go with a proven dc.

Curtis is way too inexperienced for the jump to dc.

Giunta is probably the most qualified of the bunch but do the Rams really conjur up memories of an aggressive and good defense

Merritt is interesting but I would still take McDermott over him just because of his long tenure under Jim Johnson.

Sheridan needs a little more NFL experience before making the jump to dc imo.

Waufle looks like from his resume he is a dl coach for life. We don't want another Marinelli.

[Joshua]

It's being reported that Marinelli decided to join the Bears. Not a big surprise, but the Texans can scratch him off.

[bckey]

It's being reported that Marinelli decided to join the Bears. Not a big surprise, but the Texans can scratch him off.


No surprise due to his ties with Lovie.

[nero THE zero]

Here's LZ's take on the personnel for a Tampa-2

Bulman isn't quick enough to be a 1-gap DT. He's a try-hard DE which is fine, but not a starter. Deljuan is okay and if Okoye can play, he'll be okay too. Cochran is also depth, but like Bulman, I just don't see him a starter on a defensive line that needs to get up the field. Look at the Bears, Colts and Bucs teams of the late 90's up to about 2004. Those teams have faster DEs and 3-techniques that are very disruptive (not so much with the Colts as with the other two teams). Those teams are the model.

I think DeMeco could pull off being an MLB as well, but an upgrade over Diles and potentially Adibi would be nice. Speed isn't the only thing, but you would at least like for your LBs to have very good quickness and to be able to diagnose exceptionally quickly.

The front 7 means everything to a cover 2. The CBs don't have to have great speed, but they need to have instincts and be able to tackle while the safeties need to have the same traits. Everything happens with the front 7 and it is imperative that your front 4 can get pressure on the QB without having to blitz. I don't see that being the case with the bunch they have right now.

[Warren]

For those eyeing McDermott, ProFootballTalk.com is reporting that he's being mentioned for the Broncos DC opening. They also point out that since he's under contract through the '09 season the Eagles can deny any team permission to talk to him unless they"re looking at him as a head coach.

[painekiller]

the Eagles can deny any team permission to talk to him unless they"re looking at him as a head coach.

They can, does not mean they will.

[jppaul]

They can, does not mean they will.

I thought the rule was not head coach but a promotion. So if his the secondary coach, then a d-coordinator is a promotion. But if he has the title of secondary coach/assistant head coach, then only head coach would be a promotion.

But I could be wrong.

[painekiller]

I thought the rule was not head coach but a promotion. So if his the secondary coach, then a d-coordinator is a promotion. But if he has the title of secondary coach/assistant head coach, then only head coach would be a promotion.

But I could be wrong.

Since he is already under contract for next season with the Eagles they could block him interviewing with anyone for any job, much like the Cards did with Frank Bush a few years ago.

[coloradodude]

I know you guys are sold on the styles of defense you have been talking about but I personally wish we would quit screwing around and just go to 6 - 4, but let's just call it the 10 - 1.

[Warren]

They can, does not mean they will.Right, which is why I used "can" and not "will." Just pointing out that he may not be an option even if the Texans like him and he likes them. The Eagles may want to keep him as heir apparent to the veteran Jim Johnson.

[Warren]

I thought the rule was not head coach but a promotion. So if his the secondary coach, then a d-coordinator is a promotion. But if he has the title of secondary coach/assistant head coach, then only head coach would be a promotion.

But I could be wrong.That used to be the rule. Each team could designate one offensive and one defensive assistant position as "supervisory." A non-supervisory assistant under contract could interview for supervisory-level openings because it would be a promotion. This prevented teams from trying to block their non-coordinator assistants from interviewing by giving them titles like assistant head coach, passing game coordinator, senior assistant, etc. Then the NFL changed the rule and said no interviewing if you're under contract unless it's for a head coaching job.

[nunusguy]

The Texans hired their senior defensive assistant, Frank Bush, as defensive coordinator today.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6208713.html

[painekiller]

The Texans hired their senior defensive assistant, Frank Bush, as defensive coordinator today.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6208713.html

In the article it said they tried to interview Jerry Gray but the Redskins blocked them.

So as most of us had said, Bush is the guy.

[bckey]

It just looks like Kubiak is afraid to hire anyone he hasn't had a past relationship with. It is gonna make or break him this year. I personally think it will turn out good but I do think they should have interviewed some other candidates.

[jppaul]

It just looks like Kubiak is afraid to hire anyone he hasn't had a past relationship with. It is gonna make or break him this year. I personally think it will turn out good but I do think they should have interviewed some other candidates.

I don't really think thats true. Kubiak has shown quite a but of confidence in his hires IMO. He hired Sherman, a former HC, a move that reflects quite of bit of confidence.

I don't think that he had ever worked with Sherman before either.

[Joshua]

I hope the hiring works out, but I'm not terribly optimistic. There's no getting around the fact that Bush was part of the staff that put last year's D on the field.

I'm also disappointed that we didn't interview a single other candidate for the job. I realize that they weren't granted permission to interview Gray, but you can't tell me Bush's resume is so good that there isn't a single guy in the NFL that didn't warrant an interview.

It's been said before, but I really think this is probably the most important decision in Texans history. If we can get the D straightened out, I think we are in position to compete. However, if the D doesn't come around, Kubiak is gone and we're starting all over again. I don't believe this monumental decision was given the due diligence it deserved.

[papabear]

I'm also disappointed that we didn't interview a single other candidate for the job. I realize that they weren't granted permission to interview Gray, but you can't tell me Bush's resume is so good that there isn't a single guy in the NFL that didn't warrant an interview.

I feel a little bit the same way, even though I'm fine with the hire. The way I look at it though, NFL coaches are a relatively small group. They have a pretty good idea of who someone is and what they do before they bring them in for an interview. I would have liked to have seen them talk to some more people, but chances are there wasn't much anyone could say in an interview that is going to change their opinion drastically.

I think the thought behind Bush is he will have the shortest transition period because he already knows the players (and they know him), and the changes he will make will be more of a tune-up than a overhaul.

[cadams]

I don't really think thats true. Kubiak has shown quite a but of confidence in his hires IMO. He hired Sherman, a former HC, a move that reflects quite of bit of confidence.

I don't think that he had ever worked with Sherman before either.

I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure that Kubiak and Sherman worked together at ATM, and they have been friends ever since.

[cadams]

I really hope Bush works out, but since the beginning when they didn't release him as well I have pretty much figured Bush was getting the job. My bigger problem is that if Bush deserved to be a DC, then why wasn't he promoted sooner given how bad the defense was under Smith? This is the part that worries me the most.

[Mike]

I hope the hiring works out, but I'm not terribly optimistic. There's no getting around the fact that Bush was part of the staff that put last year's D on the field.


It's been said before, but I really think this is probably the most important decision in Texans history. If we can get the D straightened out, I think we are in position to compete. However, if the D doesn't come around, Kubiak is gone and we're starting all over again. I don't believe this monumental decision was given the due diligence it deserved.

Just because your boss is an incompetent boob, that does that mean that you are? or that you cannot do that job better? Or you may have different ideas and philosophy? That answer is no, no and no. Frank Bush has a solid resume, and every person did not instantly become a DC, you had to learn and pay dues to get there. Frank has held down a ton of different defensive jobs. He is as good a choice as any other position coach somewhere else in the NFL who might have interviewed. As for available DC's most of them are available for a reason.

Hypothetically, if you were a Jets fan, and your new HC hires Richard Smith. You would be pissed. Poor track record. But if they hired Bush, you say, hmm, solid resume, held a bunch of different coaching positions. Let's see how he does. I think that this situation deserves to see how the results shake out.

[Joshua]

Just because your boss is an incompetent boob, that does that mean that you are? or that you cannot do that job better? Or you may have different ideas and philosophy? That answer is no, no and no. Frank Bush has a solid resume, and every person did not instantly become a DC, you had to learn and pay dues to get there. Frank has held down a ton of different defensive jobs. He is as good a choice as any other position coach somewhere else in the NFL who might have interviewed. As for available DC's most of them are available for a reason.

Hypothetically, if you were a Jets fan, and your new HC hires Richard Smith. You would be pissed. Poor track record. But if they hired Bush, you say, hmm, solid resume, held a bunch of different coaching positions. Let's see how he does. I think that this situation deserves to see how the results shake out.

So despite being senior defensive assistant for the last 2 years, Bush is absolved of any responsibility? And if he had so little impact/responsibility/whatever else you want to call it on this team in those 2 years, why again should he be promoted right now?

As for his "solid" resume consisting of a "ton of different jobs," here it is straight from the Texans website -

Frank Bush enters his third season with the Texans and his first year as the team's defensive coordinator after being promoted to the position on Jan. 13, 2009. He spent the previous two seasons as the Texans' senior defensive assistant.

Before joining Dennis Green in Arizona in 2004, Bush worked as an assistant with the Denver Broncos (1995–03).

By my count, that's 3 jobs. I can point to nothing during his 3 years here that suggests he deserves this job and apparently neither can you because the only thing you've suggested we do is give him a pass for it. Faint praise, indeed.

As for his time with the Cards, maybe my memory is hazy, but I don't recall anyone shaking in fear of the vaunted Cardinal defenses of 2003 and '04. As for Denver, I admit that I have no idea how he performed there.

Again, I'm not saying the guy is going to be a failure. I certainly hope he is not. First and foremost, I'm a Texan fan. However, I'm not a blind Texan fan and nothing in his background says he is so qualified as to not interview another candidate. Thus, I'm concerned the Texans may not be making the best decision possible. At the very least, I don't think they did their due diligence.

Finally, if I was a Jets fan and they hired a guy who was one of the senior coaches for one of the worst defenses in the league for the last 2 years, I most certainly would not be going "hmm, solid resume." I'm not trying to be a smartass, I'm really curious why you think he has as good a resume as, say, McDermott in Philly, etc. What do you see on his resume that you like?

[WMH]

Well, I think we all saw this coming, whether we wanted to or not. Kubiak is on his last leg in HOU, so hopefully, it will work out for both of them. We have been "rebuilding" for what.....SEVEN years now?

Personally, I figured we would have someone with no DC experience, as to me, that only makes sense. Why we would hire someone who just got fired? Another regurgitated coach anyone? My two main guesses were Bush or McDermott. I don't understand why McDermott wasn't at least interviewed.....That just doesn't make sense to me.

But if it was my a$$ on the line, then I would put someone in place that I believe in. If Kubiak thinks this guy can do it, so be it.

BRING ON 2009!

[RunninRaven]

Personally, if you really felt that Bush was the answer, I don't know why they didn't just fire Smith in the middle of last year and hand the reigns to Bush. That way you get a chance to test drive the guy before you have to make a decision in the off season. As it is, we have no way of knowing how good Bush could possibly be, because he was in the background all season long. If he had any answers, Kubiak should have turned to him much sooner than now.

Maybe he turns out great and the defense looks prepared and energized next year...but I'm betting we get a whole lot of what we have seen so far, and that ain't great.

[HPF Bob]

There's only one coach who can make the calls before each snap on what defense to employ, what personnel to have in, etc. If Bush wasn't the guy, he deserves a fresh start. Maybe his philosophy differed than Smith's but he let Smith have control because it's in the job description.

However, we need somebody on the defense who can teach players how to tackle and how to blitz effectively. If that's not Bush's forte, we need to get somebody in here who can because we won't improve on that side of the ball until we do.

[NickO]

What's in a DC's job description?
1) Develop overall defensive strategy game-to-game.
2) Call defensive plays during game.
3) Manage all assistants under him
4) Advise head coach on all things defense.

Just like in the corporate world, this a a managerial, "big-picture" type role that requires totally different skills than, say, a position coach.

While most would understandably want some "new blood" in as DC, I don't really mind the hiring of Bush since he probably knows better than anyone what worked and what didn't work with scheming and play-calling from last season.

[painekiller]

I don't really think thats true. Kubiak has shown quite a but of confidence in his hires IMO. He hired Sherman, a former HC, a move that reflects quite of bit of confidence.

I don't think that he had ever worked with Sherman before either.

They coached at TAMU together, Sherman was the OL guy and Kubiak was in charge of the RBs.

[Warren]

As for his time with the Cards, maybe my memory is hazy, but I don't recall anyone shaking in fear of the vaunted Cardinal defenses of 2003 and '04.Here's how the Cardinals' website (http://www.azcardinals.com/team/staff_detail.php?PRKey=6) describes the team's '04-'06 defenses (Bush was in Denver in '03) in DC Clancy Pendergast's bio: His 2006 defense was highlighted by strong safety Adrian Wilson’s first trip to the Pro Bowl. Wilson recorded four interceptions to tie a career-high set in 2002 and also scored on a pair of 99-yard TD’s (fumble and interception return) to become the first player in NFL history with two defensive touchdowns of 99 yards. Pendergast’s unit forced 33 turnovers (17 fumble recoveries, 16 interceptions) in 2006, the most for a Cardinals defense since 1998 and the second time in the past three years the defense finished with 30+ takeaways. Linebacker Gerald Hayes led the team with a career high 111 stops in his first season as the starting middle linebacker and the team’s redzone defense was 4th best in the NFC and 11th best in the NFL.

Pendergast’s defensive unit improved from 26th to 12th in his first season as coordinator and then jumped from 12th to 8th in 2005. Even with missing four regular starters for most of the 2005 season (DE Bertrand Berry, DT Russell Davis, Hayes, CB Antrel Rolle) and having his defensive players miss a combined 101 games due to injury, the Cardinals defense finished the season with the 10th best rush defense and the 12th best pass defense in 2005. The 8th overall ranking was the best finish for the Cardinals defense since 1994 when they finished 3rd overall. The 2005 defense also finished 7th in the NFL in first downs allowed (272) and 4th in third-down efficiency (34.2%). Wilson, a Pro Bowl alternate and 16-game starter in 2005, led the team with a career high 112 tackles and eight sacks. The 8.0 sacks were the most in the NFL by a defensive back since sacks became an official statistic in 1982. Wilson also became the first defensive back in Cardinals history to lead the team in sacks. Outside linebacker Karlos Dansby finished third on the team with 103 tackles and collected 4.0 sacks and 3 interceptions, becoming one of only six NFL players in 2005 to collect more than three sacks and three interceptions.

In 2004, Pendergast’s defense improved its overall rank from 26th at the end of ’03 to 12th. His unit was particularly tough in the red zone where its 45.0 TD percentage ranked second-best in the NFL (up from 60.7 in ’03). Other key categories of defensive improvement were in third down defense (fourth in ’04 and 32nd in ’03); total sacks were up from 20 to 38; total touchdowns allowed dropped from 55 to 35; and total takeaways improved from 23 to 30. Overall, the Cards plus-minus improved from minus-13 in 2003 to plus-1 in ’04 and the team allowed 130 fewer total points (452 to 322) which moved them from last in the NFL in 2003 to 12th in the league. Passing yards per game dropped from 224.4 in ’03 to 189.8 in ’04 (29th in ’03 to 9th in ’04) and first downs allowed dropped from 326 in ’03 to 282 in ’04. The defense didn’t allow a touchdown in three games (Rams, Falcons and Saints) and allowed just one TD in three others (Rams, Jets and Bucs). Linebacker James Darling set a career and team high with 104 tackles and defensive end Bertrand Berry earned his first Pro Bowl berth with an NFC leading 14.5 sacks.

[Keith]

In the article it said they tried to interview Jerry Gray but the Redskins blocked them.

Guess my sniffer on Gray was pretty good. I think he would have been a terrific hire had he been given a fair shake with Bush up against him. Too bad the Skins wouldn't let him interview. I wonder how much that pisses off Gray, being denied a promotion (at least in title if not pay) and an opportunity to return to Texas.

[cadams]

Guess my sniffer on Gray was pretty good. I think he would have been a terrific hire had he been given a fair shake with Bush up against him. Too bad the Skins wouldn't let him interview. I wonder how much that pisses off Gray, being denied a promotion (at least in title if not pay) and an opportunity to return to Texas.

I really think that is a sh*tty move by a team not to let a position coach interview for a coordinator position.

[nunusguy]

FWIW, on Channel 13 tonight Kubiak commented that one of his reasons for the DC decision was a preference for not venturing away from the 4-3.
I dunno if that suggestss they had a another strong prospect for DC but they decided against him because he was a 3-4 guy ?

[Arky]

Meh, I'm OK with it (Bush hiring). The coachspeak went "We're gonna find the best guy that can help the Houston Texans".... So, they've made their choice and everyone will have to live with it....

If it is any consolation, I heard Bush speak on the radio today after his promotion. He promises to be more aggressive on defense and I think the players responded positively - it was mentioned DeMeco was very supportive of the move.

At any rate, 2009 will be a bad year for the Kubiak regime to take a step backward - anything less than a winning season (or maybe 8-8) and some will call for heads to roll....

[Roy P]

Personally, if you really felt that Bush was the answer, I don't know why they didn't just fire Smith in the middle of last year and hand the reigns to Bush. That way you get a chance to test drive the guy before you have to make a decision in the off season. As it is, we have no way of knowing how good Bush could possibly be, because he was in the background all season long. If he had any answers, Kubiak should have turned to him much sooner than now.

Maybe he turns out great and the defense looks prepared and energized next year...but I'm betting we get a whole lot of what we have seen so far, and that ain't great.

That was my argument all along. Bush was the guy Kubiak wanted all along. When he knew that Smith was not the guy and was going to fire him, he should have had the stones to do it during the season. Give Bush a test drive down the stretch.

So, let me get this straight, we "interviewed" Rod Marinelli and Frank Bush, and decided then that Bush was the guy. Maybe entertained the notion of a 3-4 guy who may be able to employ a 4-3 before scrapping that idea altogether.

I hope for the Texans' sake, we go to the Playoffs in '09, or Kubiak is out of options and we'll be looking for a new HC.

[kravix]

So despite being senior defensive assistant for the last 2 years, Bush is absolved of any responsibility? And if he had so little impact/responsibility/whatever else you want to call it on this team in those 2 years, why again should he be promoted right now?



Last I checked Senior Defensive Coordinators dont create schemes or call plays.

Ray Rhodes may not have the "Senior" or "Assistant Head Coach" in his title but obviously he sucks too because he was part of a bad defense and bad secondary. You cannot tell me that he had no input what so ever, especially after Kubiak said in a press conference that he talks to Rhodes all the time and relies on him for input.

Bush was the guy Kubiak wanted from the get go. He just couldnt get him. I think Smith was put into a position he just wasnt equiped for. I dont know how good of a LB coach he would have been. Look at Marinelli, awesome DL coach, BAD HC...

No one knows how much input Bush had the second half of the season. We do know that there were plays which Smith was banned from calling. Continuity is one of the most important aspects of football, and firing coaches mid season is typically not a good idea, and usually reeks of desperation. Which is a BAD thing!

This is a decision that has the potential to break Kubiak, but there is way more room for impovment on the def side of the ball than there is room to fall.

I will go out on a limb here, and hope to hell that I never have to find out, but I am willing to bet even any season wtih 4 or more wins guantees Kubiak his 5th year. Bob is a patient man, I think he understands what it means to really cook something rather than drive through McD's for shut up the overweight spoiled kids in the back seat.

[Joshua]

Last I checked Senior Defensive Coordinators dont create schemes or call plays.

Ray Rhodes may not have the "Senior" or "Assistant Head Coach" in his title but obviously he sucks too because he was part of a bad defense and bad secondary. You cannot tell me that he had no input what so ever, especially after Kubiak said in a press conference that he talks to Rhodes all the time and relies on him for input.

Bush was the guy Kubiak wanted from the get go. He just couldnt get him. I think Smith was put into a position he just wasnt equiped for. I dont know how good of a LB coach he would have been. Look at Marinelli, awesome DL coach, BAD HC...

No one knows how much input Bush had the second half of the season. We do know that there were plays which Smith was banned from calling. Continuity is one of the most important aspects of football, and firing coaches mid season is typically not a good idea, and usually reeks of desperation. Which is a BAD thing!

This is a decision that has the potential to break Kubiak, but there is way more room for impovment on the def side of the ball than there is room to fall.

I will go out on a limb here, and hope to hell that I never have to find out, but I am willing to bet even any season wtih 4 or more wins guantees Kubiak his 5th year. Bob is a patient man, I think he understands what it means to really cook something rather than drive through McD's for shut up the overweight spoiled kids in the back seat.

So what do senior defensive coordinators do? That's kind of my point. The only thing people are able to do is apologize for him and speculate that he wasn't at fault for our terrible defense. Contrast this with Alex Gibbs, he was brought in to work with the O line and we saw the results as the season went on. If Bush is the guy, why didn't any of his teachings over the last 2 years translate into something we could point to on the field? His Texan bio says that he primarily worked with Franklin with the D line. Somehow, their work together got him the DC job and Franklin fired. That makes me go "Huh?" As for Ray Rhodes, if Kubiak had just named him DC, I would feel somewhat the same way to some extent, but Rhodes' resume would help his case a little more. Doesn't mean he sucks, but "not suck" is hopefully not the criteria for our D coordinator position.

Again, I'm not trying to just stir the pot. I would like someone, anyone, to give me any concrete, objective reason why Bush deserved the job other than he was Kubiak's first choice. I appreciate Warren's info on the Arizona D at the time and they clearly played better than I remember (not that I watched them much). But that alone doesn't seem like enough of a track record to warrant the job.

I don't have any idea what sort of defense he wants to run (I don't care about the press conference crap where he said he wants to run a more aggressive defense. Every new D coordinator says this. There's $20 in it for anyone who can find a quote from an incoming D coordinator who says he wants to play it safe, play prevent and be less aggressive.) Who did he learn under and who is his mentor? If he has one, is he still a disciple of his mentor's scheme and wants to run it? What sort of players does he look for to play his D?

I know it sounds like I'm being hard on Bush, but it's really not Bush that I'm upset with, it's Kubiak. I hope Bush works out and we'll see if he does, but I've yet to see anything concrete on why he deserved the job without even considering any other candidates (except for Gray). While it may all work out in the end, I don't see how you can look at the process the Texans just went through to hire their new D coordinator and say, "Yep, that's how it's done. The way they handled that tells me this regime knows what they're doing and I'm confident we're heading in the right direction." I'm honestly asking, does anyone feel this way?

[HPF Bob]

Any time a new coach is hired, they tell the media they plan for the team to be "more aggressive". When have you ever heard a coach say he wants his team to be less aggressive? Or perhaps "more passive"? What is it that takes a coach from being "more aggressive" to being replaced by someone who swears to be "more aggressive"? At what point does one become too aggressive? Kyle Turley? Jared Allen?

[papabear]

Any time a new coach is hired, they tell the media they plan for the team to be "more aggressive". When have you ever heard a coach say he wants his team to be less aggressive? Or perhaps "more passive"? What is it that takes a coach from being "more aggressive" to being replaced by someone who swears to be "more aggressive"? At what point does one become too aggressive? Kyle Turley? Jared Allen?

I agree with this completely....and any time a team's defense performs poorly the fans almost always scream that they need to be more aggressive. I heard poeple say they wanted Rhodes to be defensive co-ordinator becasue he would have a more "agressive" style. Yet when I looked at what Seahawk fans said about him his last year or two there the consensus seemed to be that his defense was to passive and that Rhodes keep everything in front of you approach wouldn't work. It takes more than a mean streak to play defense well.

I do think we need to have a more attacking style. If we had two huge hogs at DT who could clog things up then letting them clog things up in the middle while the others players made there reads might work better. Our personell just doesn't fit.

If Bush is super aggressive and blitzes a ton and it results in a few big plays, then I'm sure we will start to hear complaints because Bush blitzes too much, or that his defense is reckless. I don't really care if our defense is considered aggressive as long as it works.

[barrett]

So what do senior defensive coordinators do? That's kind of my point. The only thing people are able to do is apologize for him and speculate that he wasn't at fault for our terrible defense. Contrast this with Alex Gibbs, he was brought in to work with the O line and we saw the results as the season went on. If Bush is the guy, why didn't any of his teachings over the last 2 years translate into something we could point to on the field? His Texan bio says that he primarily worked with Franklin with the D line. Somehow, their work together got him the DC job and Franklin fired. That makes me go "Huh?" As for Ray Rhodes, if Kubiak had just named him DC, I would feel somewhat the same way to some extent, but Rhodes' resume would help his case a little more. Doesn't mean he sucks, but "not suck" is hopefully not the criteria for our D coordinator position.

Again, I'm not trying to just stir the pot. I would like someone, anyone, to give me any concrete, objective reason why Bush deserved the job other than he was Kubiak's first choice. I appreciate Warren's info on the Arizona D at the time and they clearly played better than I remember (not that I watched them much). But that alone doesn't seem like enough of a track record to warrant the job.

I don't have any idea what sort of defense he wants to run (I don't care about the press conference crap where he said he wants to run a more aggressive defense. Every new D coordinator says this. There's $20 in it for anyone who can find a quote from an incoming D coordinator who says he wants to play it safe, play prevent and be less aggressive.) Who did he learn under and who is his mentor? If he has one, is he still a disciple of his mentor's scheme and wants to run it? What sort of players does he look for to play his D?

I know it sounds like I'm being hard on Bush, but it's really not Bush that I'm upset with, it's Kubiak. I hope Bush works out and we'll see if he does, but I've yet to see anything concrete on why he deserved the job without even considering any other candidates (except for Gray). While it may all work out in the end, I don't see how you can look at the process the Texans just went through to hire their new D coordinator and say, "Yep, that's how it's done. The way they handled that tells me this regime knows what they're doing and I'm confident we're heading in the right direction." I'm honestly asking, does anyone feel this way?

Amazing how we are all aware of what other candidates were considered. Also amazing how we all know the inner-workings of a football staff. We pretend to know WAY more on stuff like this than we do. The truth is we don't have nearly enough info to evaluate a coordinator let alone a position coach, because we have no idea how a particular team is run. Nobody knows the percent of the blame that lies where, or the percent of the credit for the positives we saw towards the end of the year. Or at least nobody knows who's talking.

What we do know is that Gary Kubiak has worked with Bush for years and wants him as his DC. The players have worked with him for years and have come out in support of the hire. Anything else is specualtion. A year from now we will either see this as a smart move or the reason Kubiak was fired, but right now any judgement of this hire is blind conjecture.

[papabear]

A year from now we will either see this as a smart move or the reason Kubiak was fired, but right now any judgement of this hire is blind conjecture.

I think Kubiak has either been told, or is smart enough to know, that it's playoffs or else next year. I think that was a big reason it was Bush. If he thought he had a couple of years to re-tool the defense he would have been more likely to bring in someone from the outside. I suspect, with absolutely no proof, that McDermott was on the radar screen. With the iggles going deeper than most probably thought I think Kubiak just went ahead and made the call that he was most comfortable with and got this settled early. Now they can seamlessly transition to the off season without any kind of learning period between HC and DC.

Kubiak is probably all to aware that this hire will make or break him. He had a lot more riding on this than any of us.

[nunusguy]

I will go out on a limb here, and hope to hell that I never have to find out, but I am willing to bet even any season wtih 4 or more wins guantees Kubiak his 5th year. Bob is a patient man, I think he understands what it means to really cook something rather than drive through McD's for shut up the overweight spoiled kids in the back seat.

I dunno if Kubiak would have survived this season (his third) if he had ended up 4-12 and I think its even more unlikely he would in one of the next 2 seasons with that record unless the Texans were to incur a huge number of injuries.

[cadams]

Amazing how we are all aware of what other candidates were considered. Also amazing how we all know the inner-workings of a football staff. We pretend to know WAY more on stuff like this than we do. The truth is we don't have nearly enough info to evaluate a coordinator let alone a position coach, because we have no idea how a particular team is run. Nobody knows the percent of the blame that lies where, or the percent of the credit for the positives we saw towards the end of the year. Or at least nobody knows who's talking.

What we do know is that Gary Kubiak has worked with Bush for years and wants him as his DC. The players have worked with him for years and have come out in support of the hire. Anything else is specualtion. A year from now we will either see this as a smart move or the reason Kubiak was fired, but right now any judgement of this hire is blind conjecture.


Ummmmm, that is what 90% of message boards are. People giving thier opinions on the situations. Of course we don't know the inner workings of the team, but I think it is pretty safe to say that coaching prospects are reported on, and I also think that the fact that 90% of the posters on this board called the Bush hiring as soon as he was retained and Smith was released is a telling sign. I don't think Joshua is doing anything other than voicing concerns and asking someone for more information so he can get his head around the decision rather than just having blind faith (which was all used up with the casserly/capers regime)

[Mike]

In his presser yesterday, Bush said he wants the players playing fast and physical, will simplify things and wants to create turnovers. I know, all the typical coaching cliches'.

He wants to be aggressive and react, play north and south. I think that might be a statement on the play of the DT's. I wonder if that means more gap shooting vs read then react. Should suit Omobi better.

I can give my boss all kind of ideas. It is up to him to use them. it is possible that this is what happened between Bush/Smith. Just speculating on my part. At some point in his career, he coached LB's, DL and secondary in addition to scouting. He is a former player. I bet he he can identify talent, or lack thereof.

Demeco is happy with the pick. He indicates that when Frank talks, people are focused on him. I'll roll with what he says vs drivel on the board. I choose looking for positives over dwelling on possible negatives.

The proof will be in the product, and I'll base judgement on those results, vs superficial arguements about why he should not have been the choice or will fail. He might not have better results than Smith, but he certainly should not do worse, and we all know we will be drafting and spending FA money on the defense.

[Mike]

[QUOTE=Joshua;7259]
I don't have any idea what sort of defense he wants to run (I don't care about the press conference crap where he said he wants to run a more aggressive defense. Every new D coordinator says this. There's $20 in it for anyone who can find a quote from an incoming D coordinator who says he wants to play it safe, play prevent and be less aggressive.) Who did he learn under and who is his mentor? If he has one, is he still a disciple of his mentor's scheme and wants to run it? What sort of players does he look for to play his D? QUOTE]

Watch his press conference video on the teams site. He learned from Gregg Robinson Jerry Glanville and buddy Ryan. He runs the 4-3.

[barrett]

Ummmmm, that is what 90% of message boards are. People giving thier opinions on the situations. Of course we don't know the inner workings of the team, but I think it is pretty safe to say that coaching prospects are reported on, and I also think that the fact that 90% of the posters on this board called the Bush hiring as soon as he was retained and Smith was released is a telling sign. I don't think Joshua is doing anything other than voicing concerns and asking someone for more information so he can get his head around the decision rather than just having blind faith (which was all used up with the casserly/capers regime)

My problem is simply people pretending they KNOW what happens on the inside. Because they don't. Message boards may be a great place for guesses, I just think it's funny when people make authoritative statements when they have no knowledge. Things like we didn't "even consider any other candidates except for Gray." Where does anyone get the idea that Kubiak didn't consider other candidates. We KNOW that Marinelli was interviewed. As for who was considered I bet it was a lot longer list than Gray and Bush.

It was like when somebody posted last week they heard Kubiak was taking a week off and then putting together a list of candidates and we got a page of replies about how Kubiak was taking a vacation. This stuff is all made up. Someone hears a quote about Kubiak taking his time on the hire, relates it the best he remembers it, and someone twists it to suit a preconceived idea until Kubiak is in club med while all the good hires get snatched up.

As for blind faith, I would say the perfect definition is listening to message board rants while ignoring the words of a guy like Demeco Ryans.

Now, if you want to argue that message boards are a great place for wild guesses, blind conjecture, half truths, directionless rants, and the like. I can't argue with you. Nor can you argue with me going after it if I don't like it.

[Joshua]

Amazing how we are all aware of what other candidates were considered. Also amazing how we all know the inner-workings of a football staff. We pretend to know WAY more on stuff like this than we do. The truth is we don't have nearly enough info to evaluate a coordinator let alone a position coach, because we have no idea how a particular team is run. Nobody knows the percent of the blame that lies where, or the percent of the credit for the positives we saw towards the end of the year. Or at least nobody knows who's talking.

What we do know is that Gary Kubiak has worked with Bush for years and wants him as his DC. The players have worked with him for years and have come out in support of the hire. Anything else is specualtion. A year from now we will either see this as a smart move or the reason Kubiak was fired, but right now any judgement of this hire is blind conjecture.

All good points and I don't disagree that much here is speculation. Only time will tell. But isn't speculation pretty much what these types of boards are? Also, I don't think you need complete knowledge to gather a few nuggets here and there. None of us knows exactly how much the improved offensive line is the result of Alex Gibbs but I don't think it's unreasonable to assign some of the credit to him. I'm just looking for similar nuggets on Bush. I haven't seen many yet and the D line, the one thing I know he was in charge of (at least in part), was below average despite the resources given it (I realize there is an argument here over why that is (bad personnel decisions, etc.)). The players coming out in support is a decent sign but that seems pretty standard (they also came out against the firing of Franklin).

As for Kubiak's first choice, I give this little thought. As great as Kubiak has been with the offense, he's been equally disasterous with the defense. I simply don't afford him the same benefit of the doubt on the defensive side of the ball.

Finally, I think I've also been clear that my primary complaint has been the process. Like everyone else here, I just want the Texans to succeed and hopefully this will be a step in that direction. I've been vocal that I'm concerned it is not. With any luck, you all will get to throw this back in my face this time next year.

[popanot]

It's becoming increasingly apparent that Kubiak doesn't have the nads to make the difficult decision based on his failure to fire/demote Smith when he had the man he wanted all along on his staff for the past 2 years. All this while watching his defense get torched beyond recognition for the most part. Sweet... We waisted two years on the Smith experiment.

Personally, I don't have problem with Bush if that's who Kubiak wants and feels is the best man for the job. I do have a problem with Kubiak not making the move sooner, however. This would concern me greatly if I were Bob McNair.

[Joshua]

My problem is simply people pretending they KNOW what happens on the inside. Because they don't. Message boards may be a great place for guesses, I just think it's funny when people make authoritative statements when they have no knowledge. Things like we didn't "even consider any other candidates except for Gray." Where does anyone get the idea that Kubiak didn't consider other candidates. We KNOW that Marinelli was interviewed. As for who was considered I bet it was a lot longer list than Gray and Bush.



Don't recall if I wrote the Texans "didn't consider any other candidates except Gray." If I did, you're right that this is probably incorrect (at least none of us can say either way). However, the Chron did report that Gray was the only other candidate who the Texans sought an interview with. They also reported that Marinelli was brought in to interview solely for the D line job. This is what I was referring to and if I botched it, my apologies.

[barrett]

All good points and I don't disagree that much here is speculation. Only time will tell. But isn't speculation pretty much what these types of boards are? Also, I don't think you need complete knowledge to gather a few nuggets here and there. None of us knows exactly how much the improved offensive line is the result of Alex Gibbs but I don't think it's unreasonable to assign some of the credit to him. I'm just looking for similar nuggets on Bush. I haven't seen many yet and the D line, the one thing I know he was in charge of (at least in part), was below average despite the resources given it (I realize there is an argument here over why that is (bad personnel decisions, etc.)). The players coming out in support is a decent sign but that seems pretty standard (they also came out against the firing of Franklin).

As for Kubiak's first choice, I give this little thought. As great as Kubiak has been with the offense, he's been equally disasterous with the defense. I simply don't afford him the same benefit of the doubt on the defensive side of the ball.

Finally, I think I've also been clear that my primary complaint has been the process. Like everyone else here, I just want the Texans to succeed and hopefully this will be a step in that direction. I've been vocal that I'm concerned it is not. With any luck, you all will get to throw this back in my face this time next year.

My reply was not against you in particular Joshua. Your post was very reasonable. My post was just stating that we honestly don't know certain things about a football team and never will. How the coaching staff works is number one on this list. We sometimes get a "legend" of a position coach like Joe Gibbs who has articles written and praise heaped on him. But most of the time we don't hear anything.

I never heard a single good word about Kyle Shanahan as a position coach, and then he was hired as OC. many of the threads on the old HPF ripped the hiring, and yet this past year, our offense was at its best ever. And the truth is we still don't know how much was him. We never see these guys on the field, we just see a product that they were in some indefinable way responsible for. I've been on football staffs and it is not like any other coaching staff. There are so many coaches that a bum can be hidden and a star can be snuffed out.

So regarding this hire, we honestly know almost nothing directly about Bush other than his Boss and his players are big fans. And as for the hiring process we know just as little. The number of public interviews shows a handful were considered. The talk shows they considered additional 3-4 guys, and the number of people on the original list that were considered is something we'll never know.

With all this in play I will take a wait and see approach. If anyone claims to know more, they are welcome to do so, but they have nothing to back up that claim.

[cadams]

In his presser yesterday, Bush said he wants the players playing fast and physical, will simplify things and wants to create turnovers. I know, all the typical coaching cliches'.

He wants to be aggressive and react, play north and south. I think that might be a statement on the play of the DT's. I wonder if that means more gap shooting vs read then react. Should suit Omobi better.

I can give my boss all kind of ideas. It is up to him to use them. it is possible that this is what happened between Bush/Smith. Just speculating on my part. At some point in his career, he coached LB's, DL and secondary in addition to scouting. He is a former player. I bet he he can identify talent, or lack thereof.

Demeco is happy with the pick. He indicates that when Frank talks, people are focused on him. I'll roll with what he says vs drivel on the board. I choose looking for positives over dwelling on possible negatives.

The proof will be in the product, and I'll base judgement on those results, vs superficial arguements about why he should not have been the choice or will fail. He might not have better results than Smith, but he certainly should not do worse, and we all know we will be drafting and spending FA money on the defense.


Maybe I missed something, but I don't recall anyone saying he was the wrong choice, or that he will fail. I think the comments were more focused on the hiring process that was used and requesting information on the guy. I may have come the closest when i said I was concerned about keeping anyone from the previous defensive staff, but I think I clearly said I hoped I was wrong.

[papabear]

It's becoming increasingly apparent that Kubiak doesn't have the nads to make the difficult decision based on his failure to fire/demote Smith when he had the man he wanted all along on his staff for the past 2 years. All this while watching his defense get torched beyond recognition for the most part. Sweet... We waisted two years on the Smith experiment.

Personally, I don't have problem with Bush if that's who Kubiak wants and feels is the best man for the job. I do have a problem with Kubiak not making the move sooner, however. This would concern me greatly if I were Bob McNair.


I think it's pretty unfair to say that Kubiak can't make a tough decision because he lt Smith hae a full season. Hypothetically speaking, if Kubiak held onto Smith and the defense was above average next year, maybe bordering on top ten or better, then all the talk would be about how much courage it took for Kubiak to have the necessary patience to let Smith get the right players in and his scheme going. Dungy was too nice and Coughlin was too mean...until they both won Super Bowls.

We had an unually large number of injuries on the defense Smith's first year. He was given the benefit of the doubt. The defense was poor again the next year, but actually finished strong over the last part of the season. That improvement late in the season probably saved his job. Another poor year and he gets the ax. I'm sure that Smith knew his job was on the line, and have no problem with Kubiak letting him go the whole season to try and save it.

There's not enough time mid-season to make dramatic changes to a defense. Sure, they could have let Bush call a couple of games late, but we still wouldn't have seen what he brings because he would only have time to make minor changes to Smith's framework late in the season. Besides, it's entirely possible that Bush was given a little more control over the defense for the last few games...and the fact that the defense seemed to play a little better could be part of the reason he was hired (total speculation on my part though).

I think a new coordinator is better off coming in clean in the off season anyway. Players are more likely to buy in in the off season then they are trying to adjust mid-stream.

[cland]

I've read and watched quite a bit about this coaching decision, based on all that this is my opinion on how the whole decision came down:

-Somewhere in the mid-season--after dropping the game against Minnesota in particular--the players lost faith in Richard's defense. A couple comments from Dunta, DeMeco, and Wilson speak to this, criticizing the game plan and the lack of aggression. Mario gets in the act also, his proclamation of 'I'm going to go then react to the play, rather than read first.' after having his most productive game.

-Kubiak takes a much closer look at the defense, and uses his sounding board and original choice for DC more than ever. He definitely relies on Bush's influence and the defense takes a turn that was obvious to all of us. My guess is that Bush's opinion in forming the defensive gameplan suddenly outranked Smith's. Whether Bush called the plays or not, the gameplan was his and Kubiak enforced it.

-Kubiak is very pleased with the turn-around on defense...and game score. After a few impressive games, Kubiak has already made his mind up: "Frank Bush is my new DC."

-That being said he has two reasons for not implementing this change during the season. First, Richard Smith is his friend, he brought him into this franchise, gave him the position, and feels somewhat responsible for the eventual outcome. He decides to make the change in a classier fashion. Second, as John Mclain mentioned in one of his video's, "the McNairs'" wanted to interview more than one candidate.

-After talking to all of his players his decision is reinforced, Kubiak makes the call and terminates Richard Smith. He also lets go of Hoke--likely due to Dunta's comments--and Jethro Franklin...Mario's handiwork.

-So Bob and Cal aren't ready to just hand over the DC crown to anyone, but in typical fashion they do listen to their coach. When he announced Richard Smith's firing, Kubiak has a bit of a sly grin when he was asked if Frank Bush would be interviewed for the DC position. I thought the slyness was just out of respect for both Smith and Bush, but I now think this was due to the McNairs' request/boss's demand.

-So Kubiak--mind already made up--calls some coaches he would like to interview and accepts some additional coaches thought up by Rick and the McNairs. Frank Bush says in a video that he was "one of many" who interviewed. I'm sure that Jerry Gray originally agreed to come in to interview, but I'm betting they talked to several others who had other plans. Once Jerry Gray's interview was denied, the McNair's discovery period was satisfied and Kubiak was free to make the announcement.

-This explains why position coaches continued to be interviewed without an official DC. In my opinion, David Gibbs is already hired we'll probably hear that tommorow. My guess is that they have a target on the DL coach as well and I'm betting that person is in the playoffs right now. Kubiak made the comment in his most recent video..."It could take awhile. [team wins] It could happen in the next day or so. [team loses] I’ll keep you up to date."

[edo783]

I've read and watched quite a bit about this coaching decision, based on all that this is my opinion on how the whole decision came down:

-Somewhere in the mid-season--after dropping the game against Minnesota in particular--the players lost faith in Richard's defense. A couple comments from Dunta, DeMeco, and Wilson speak to this, criticizing the game plan and the lack of aggression. Mario gets in the act also, his proclamation of 'I'm going to go then react to the play, rather than read first.' after having his most productive game.

-Kubiak takes a much closer look at the defense, and uses his sounding board and original choice for DC more than ever. He definitely relies on Bush's influence and the defense takes a turn that was obvious to all of us. My guess is that Bush's opinion in forming the defensive gameplan suddenly outranked Smith's. Whether Bush called the plays or not, the gameplan was his and Kubiak enforced it.

-Kubiak is very pleased with the turn-around on defense...and game score. After a few impressive games, Kubiak has already made his mind up: "Frank Bush is my new DC."

-That being said he has two reasons for not implementing this change during the season. First, Richard Smith is his friend, he brought him into this franchise, gave him the position, and feels somewhat responsible for the eventual outcome. He decides to make the change in a classier fashion. Second, as John Mclain mentioned in one of his video's, "the McNairs'" wanted to interview more than one candidate.

-After talking to all of his players his decision is reinforced, Kubiak makes the call and terminates Richard Smith. He also lets go of Hoke--likely due to Dunta's comments--and Jethro Franklin...Mario's handiwork.

-So Bob and Cal aren't ready to just hand over the DC crown to anyone, but in typical fashion they do listen to their coach. When he announced Richard Smith's firing, Kubiak has a bit of a sly grin when he was asked if Frank Bush would be interviewed for the DC position. I thought the slyness was just out of respect for both Smith and Bush, but I now think this was due to the McNairs' request/boss's demand.

-So Kubiak--mind already made up--calls some coaches he would like to interview and accepts some additional coaches thought up by Rick and the McNairs. Frank Bush says in a video that he was "one of many" who interviewed. I'm sure that Jerry Gray originally agreed to come in to interview, but I'm betting they talked to several others who had other plans. Once Jerry Gray's interview was denied, the McNair's discovery period was satisfied and Kubiak was free to make the announcement.

-This explains why position coaches continued to be interviewed without an official DC. In my opinion, David Gibbs is already hired we'll probably hear that tommorow. My guess is that they have a target on the DL coach as well and I'm betting that person is in the playoffs right now. Kubiak made the comment in his most recent video..."It could take awhile. [team wins] It could happen in the next day or so. [team loses] I’ll keep you up to date."

Nice job. Good analysis and the only nit I would pick would be in regards to Franklin's firing being somehow tied to Mario. My take is that it was likely tied to a lack of development by several players and possibly he was a supporter of the read-react mindset group.

[Roy P]

Okay, Frank is our new DC. Hopefully, he turns things around. Now, who is the DL coach? The Ravens and Steelers run a 3-4. Bush came from the Cardinals, does he have a history with any DL guys from Arizona (Rick Courtright)?

Does he have anybody from those old Bronco's staff in mind (Jacob Burney)?

What about the Strength and Conditioning and Nutrition staff? Inquiring minds want to know!

[bckey]

Okay, Frank is our new DC. Hopefully, he turns things around. Now, who is the DL coach? The Ravens and Steelers run a 3-4. Bush came from the Cardinals, does he have a history with any DL guys from Arizona (Rick Courtright)?

Does he have anybody from those old Bronco's staff in mind (Jacob Burney)?

What about the Strength and Conditioning and Nutrition staff? Inquiring minds want to know!


I mentioned Jacob Burney yesterday on the TT site. It would be just like Kubiak to hire another bronco he is familiar with. He doesn't leave his comfort zone.