What Should Be Done with Dunta Robinson in the Offseason? [F-Tagged on 2/19!]

[nunusguy]

LZ on local radio station 1560 said in the last couple days that the Texans should not make an effort to resign D-Rob. He thinks he will demand top dollar in free-agency this offseason even if there's still some uncertainty about his full recover ? Instead LZ believes the Texans should let D-Rob
walk and concentrate on drafting Malcolm Jenkins if they have a high enough pick.

[papabear]

LZ on local radio station 1560 said in the last couple days that the Texans should not make an effort to resign D-Rob. He thinks he will demand top dollar in free-agency this offseason even if there's still some uncertainty about his full recover ? Instead LZ believes the Texans should let D-Rob
walk and concentrate on drafting Malcolm Jenkins if they have a high enough pick.

I'm not convinced that he will definitely want to stay here. While nothing he has said has been to harsh, he has been the most outspoken player on the team.

[nunusguy]

I'm not convinced that he will definitely want to stay here. While nothing he has said has been to harsh, he has been the most outspoken player on the team.
And he's been particularly outspoken about his desire to win.
So there's bound to be one or more of those 31 other teams besides the Texans that's a contender and interested in D-Rob, notwithstanding some
residual concerns about his injuries. Good corners are just too hard to come by, especially if it is also a player with such a high work-ethic & competitive intensity & solid team guy as D-Rob is. And if he goes elsewhere I certainly won't blame him a bit and I'll wish nothing but the best.

[Keith]

mod note - split this into a new thread from the other one discussing Dunta's return as a starter vs. the Browns.


Letting Dunta go for nothing would be a freaking huge mistake. If the Texans are concerned that the market will be Nate Clements-like for him, then franchise him. That way the Texans make just a one-year investment to see if he is the Dunta of old, which I think he might be.

Dunta is a team leader on the defense, as much or more so than Mario and DeMeco. For a young defense like this, letting him walk and getting a rookie, even a damn fine one, to replace him, would be a step backward.

Hell, draft a CB in the first anyway to pair with Dunta. That's not the point. The point is guys like Dunta are not a dime a dozen. F-tag him if you can't find a middle ground negotiating, and let's talk again about this in another year.

[Mike]

I agree with Keith 100%. I think Dunta would like to stay, but there has to be the committment to winning. He speaks well of Kubes and that is a huge plus. If Kubes brings in a Crennel, Johnson, Bates -- a coordinator with a proven record of success that will go a long way.

You absolutely franchise him for one year if you cannot come to an agreement. What you hope for, is that the offense can get stabilized and then you make changes to the defensive staff, scheme and players in the offseason. If the team starts winning in 2009, during the season when things are going good, you start negotiation the long term deal.

Guys with the heart, passion and desire are hard to come by, and he is a building block on that unit. #23's heart and desire is evident by the way he came back from that horrific injury.

[papabear]

I'm all for keeping him around. If he wants to go somewhere else and you have to franchise him, do it. We've never had that kind of problem before. I think the F-Tag is a smart move. He'll be well payed (even though the players all seem to hate it) and it gives us a year to see if he is truly recovered.

I'm not one who thinks Dunta is an elite corner, although he is very good. I'm sure his agent will want elite money though, so it could get interesting.

[cadams]

mod note - split this into a new thread from the other one discussing Dunta's return as a starter vs. the Browns.


Letting Dunta go for nothing would be a freaking huge mistake. If the Texans are concerned that the market will be Nate Clements-like for him, then franchise him. That way the Texans make just a one-year investment to see if he is the Dunta of old, which I think he might be.

Dunta is a team leader on the defense, as much or more so than Mario and DeMeco. For a young defense like this, letting him walk and getting a rookie, even a damn fine one, to replace him, would be a step backward.

Hell, draft a CB in the first anyway to pair with Dunta. That's not the point. The point is guys like Dunta are not a dime a dozen. F-tag him if you can't find a middle ground negotiating, and let's talk again about this in another year.


I agree with you 100% Keith. If they let him walk that would be the most boneheaded decision ever (even more that the Buchanon deal). Even if they decided it may be best to get rid of him, they MUST get something in return. You franchise him and then have the option to keep him or trade him for value. The only way you get rid of him would be for at least a 1st round pick in return, and I don't know that I would be happy with that either.

[cadams]

I'm all for keeping him around. If he wants to go somewhere else and you have to franchise him, do it. We've never had that kind of problem before. I think the F-Tag is a smart move. He'll be well payed (even though the players all seem to hate it) and it gives us a year to see if he is truly recovered.

I'm not one who thinks Dunta is an elite corner, although he is very good. I'm sure his agent will want elite money though, so it could get interesting.

You are probably right on him not being an elite corner based on his skills alone, but he is definitely a solid, every down corner, and those kinds of guys are hard to come by in the league. If, when drafting a corner, you could be guarenteed that he would have the kind of production that dunta has had, there would be no hesitation with spending a #1 on him, and we all know that every #1 doesn't pan out like dunta has.

[Keith]

In a column discussin Reeves, McClain added this little bit about Dunta at the end:

When the season ends, Smith will focus on the draft as well as free agency. He’ll have more cap dollars available than anytime in recent years. He plans to use a big portion of that cap space to re-sign some of his best players, beginning with cornerback Dunta Robinson.


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6132948.html

No quote to back it up, but at least it sounds like the Texans have Robinson in their long-term plans.

[papabear]

In a column discussin Reeves, McClain added this little bit about Dunta at the end:


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6132948.html

No quote to back it up, but at least it sounds like the Texans have Robinson in their long-term plans.

I'm sure they do. I would consider Daniels to be 1A on the priority list right now though.

[Mike]

I would add Demeco as another priority. I think he has outplayed his rookie deal as well. Smart move to have locked up Eric early in the year and escalating some of the bonus to this years cap.

[dadmg]

mod note - split this into a new thread from the other one discussing Dunta's return as a starter vs. the Browns.


Letting Dunta go for nothing would be a freaking huge mistake. If the Texans are concerned that the market will be Nate Clements-like for him, then franchise him. That way the Texans make just a one-year investment to see if he is the Dunta of old, which I think he might be.

Dunta is a team leader on the defense, as much or more so than Mario and DeMeco. For a young defense like this, letting him walk and getting a rookie, even a damn fine one, to replace him, would be a step backward.

Hell, draft a CB in the first anyway to pair with Dunta. That's not the point. The point is guys like Dunta are not a dime a dozen. F-tag him if you can't find a middle ground negotiating, and let's talk again about this in another year.

My sentiments exactly on every point.

[popanot]

This may gives us an idea of what Dunta may be seeking. Perhaps a little less, but I doubt by much in today's market.PANTHERS, GAMBLE AGREE TO SIX-YEAR DEAL
Posted by Michael David Smith on November 28, 2008, 4:34 p.m.
While millions of Americans were doing their holiday shopping today, the Carolina Panthers were spending millions.

Adam Schefter of NFL Network reports that the Panthers have signed cornerback Chris Gamble to a six-year, $53 million contract that includes $23 million worth of guaranteed bonuses. The deal makes Gamble one of the highest-paid cornerbacks in NFL history.

For the Panthers, re-signing Gamble takes him off the free agent market heading into the 2009 off-season. It also gives them a little more flexibility with their two other high-profile players whose contracts expire after this season, defensive end Julius Peppers and offensive tackle Jordan Gross. The Panthers would like to get a deal done with either Peppers or Gross and could then slap the franchise tag on whoever is left.

Gamble was the Panthers’ first-round draft pick in 2004 and has been a starter since the first game of his rookie year.

[nunusguy]

This may gives us an idea of what Dunta may be seeking. Perhaps a little less, but I doubt by much in today's market.
With a relatively young (2004 Draft like D-Rob) starting CB who was going to be a FA in 2009 already going off the market, this is certainly good news for D-Rob as the supply for corners like him has already contracted but the demand remains strong & constant. And not such good news for the Texans.
I dunno, how far back is D-Rob to his pre 2007 injury status and skills ? Is his maneuvrability, back-peddle skills, pure foot speed, etc. back or nearly back where it was ?

[NBT]

It woud be pure dumb to let Dunta walk without even trying to get him to reup. And then drafting a rookie who hasn't done squat to replace him. Just don't do it! Conserve what we have and try to build on it for next year for goodness sake.

[Nconroe]

I agree, do our best to re-up D-Rob, with new deal or franchise tag. He seems to be a great vocal, fiery, team leader.

I think he's recovering well, not yet his old self, but getting there.

I think still keep getting Dline and LBs stronger should be draft priority, for today, DB's are still young and may develop pretty good, well, maybe draft a safety pretty high.

[popanot]

There's no way McNair lets DRob walk. McNair's proven over the years, regretfully in some cases (*ahem* Carr, DDavis...), that he'll take care of the guys who he feels are good for the franchise. I will not be surprised to see them make a deal without having to use the F-Tag.

[superbowlbound]

Dunta has been coming into my restaurant semi-regularly since the summer, and i've had the privilege of talking with him a couple times. Nice guy, solid tipper. He loves this city, and he really likes his head coach. Richard Smith is a different matter entirely. I think, if we get ourselves even a decent D-coordinator, he sticks around. I've heard a lot of talk about the franchise tag, which i'm all for if we can't lock him up long-term. The guy brings fire, which is something this D absolutely needs, especially since mario and demeco are pretty soft-spoken guys to begin with.

I'm with most of you that don't think Dunta is an elite, as in top 5, corner in this league, but he is solid in coverage, and is one of the best in the league in run support among corners. Letting him walk with zero compensation would be a titanic blunder. F-tag him if we have to, for sure.

[jppaul]

He is a great zone coverage corner, a good man coverage corner. As much as they are paying corners these days he might be hard to keep, but he is definitely one of my favorite players. I love the way that guy lays the wood on 230 pounders.

He is also a leader and I think our team would take a big step back if we lost him.

[Keith]

I usually despise bumping up an old thread, but it probably makes sense to revisit this conversation.

Steph did a Q&A with KC Joyner on her Chron blog (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2009/01/interview_with_espns_kc_joyner_1.html), and talk of Dunta surfaced.
Me: The Texans are going to have to make a decision with Dunta Robinson who is a unrestricted free agent going into this offseason. They have the option to franchise him for a year if they want more time to assess how his damaged hamstring/knee heals up more this offseason. When Robinson was in the lineup in 2008, the Texans were 7-4 and with him in the starting lineup, they were 5-1. Any thoughts about Robinson's play?

KC: "I've had good and bad things to say about Robinson over the years but in the case of a franchise tag, all I can say is look at his YPA metrics over the past five seasons:

2008 - 7.5
2007 - 8.0
2006 - 7.4
2005 - 9.3
2004 - 6.6

To put these into perspective, consider that a YPA of 7.5 or better will typically rank a cornerback in the upper half of the league. Robinson's YPA has been at or near the 7.5 mark twice, has been below it once and has been above it twice. If that's a franchise level cornerback, I'm a Pulitzer prize winner. He's worth re-signing at the right price but I wouldn't break the bank on him."

There's plenty of other discussable topics in that link (like Joyner's thoughts on Fred Bennett and Jacques Reeves), so click it if you haven't read it already.

Anyhoo, my comment was that stats are awesome, but YPA alone (including in combo with other stats) fails to account for Dunta's intangibles. I'm sure Joyner realizes this, but he's been rough on Dunta in the past, too. Good read (thanks again, Steph) and interesting info nonetheless.

[Roy P]

I usually despise bumping up an old thread, but it probably makes sense to revisit this conversation.

Steph did a Q&A with KC Joyner on her Chron blog (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2009/01/interview_with_espns_kc_joyner_1.html), and talk of Dunta surfaced.

There's plenty of other discussable topics in that link (like Joyner's thoughts on Fred Bennett and Jacques Reeves), so click it if you haven't read it already.

Anyhoo, my comment was that stats are awesome, but YPA alone (including in combo with other stats) fails to account for Dunta's intangibles. I'm sure Joyner realizes this, but he's been rough on Dunta in the past, too. Good read (thanks again, Steph) and interesting info nonetheless.

I'm wondering with Bennett, Reeves, and Molden on the roster; if the Texans draft a guy like Dominique Johnson in the 3rd round just in case things go bad in negotiations with Dunta.

[Keith]

I'm wondering with Bennett, Reeves, and Molden on the roster; if the Texans draft a guy like Dominique Johnson in the 3rd round just in case things go bad in negotiations with Dunta.

As a UFA, Dunta would be free to sign with another team long before the draft comes around in late April, unless he is franchised.

[Roy P]

As a UFA, Dunta would be free to sign with another team long before the draft comes around in late April, unless he is franchised.

Let me re-phrase from "just in case" to "in case" then. We were able to squeak through without Dunta on the field. It was nice when he came back, but it's not like we are talking about Champ Bailey or Darrell Green.

[Joshua]

I agree that Dunta wasn't his old self when he returned and certainly wasn't a lockdown corner. In fact, he probably never was. At his best, he was an above average, but not elite, cover corner. However, he made up for any coverage deficiencies with his play in the running game, leadership, competitiveness, etc. It appears as though Joyner's metrics only involve coverage. If that is all he is considering in evaluating Dunta, he's sorely missing the whole picture.

While it's impossible to divvy up credit or blame, the Texans were 5-1 with him in the starting lineup and 3-7 without. While the franchise tag is steep, if they can't get a deal done, I think they need to use it.

[Keith]

We were able to squeak through without Dunta on the field.Squeak through? The Texans were 1-4 before his return to part-time status in the Lions game. He joined a defense that has since lost by choice both its coordinator and DB coach. That is a mighty uninspiring squeak.

While I won't make the direct connection that Robinson was responsible for the late season surge by the defense (improved play from the D-line and LBs, in addition a possible retreat of authority from Richard Smith seem every bit as if not more integral), it does seem a bit too coincidental to dismiss, too.

I get that Dunta has not been a 'top 5' (or even a 'top 10') CB and that he is replaceable... but I am uneasy right now turning the secondary over to Bennett and Reeves and pinning hopes on Molden, who played little CB as a rookie plus maybe someone drafted in April.

Maybe Bennett will return to form, maybe Molden will develop, maybe Reeves will turn around to look for the ball.... I dunno, that's a lot of maybes. And it's not like the defense can call upon some great safeties to overcome any deficiencies, either.

So yeah, maybe Dunta isn't the best cover corner ever, but I'd prefer to have in on the roster in 2009... in addition to the possibility his play might improve, he might have a positive influence on guys like Bennett and Molden as a mentor, too.

[sinnister]

Let me re-phrase from "just in case" to "in case" then. We were able to squeak through without Dunta on the field. It was nice when he came back, but it's not like we are talking about Champ Bailey or Darrell Green.

At this point, I feel it is imperative to resign Dunta, or if necessary, franchise him to see how he does this year. To lose him would be to lose what little intangibles we have on D. He isn't a lockdown CB, but make no mistake, before he came back, I felt like I could get open against the Texans CBs. Ok, that is an exaggeration.

I do feel that Bennett will play better next year, and having Dunta will continue to help him. I have hopes that Reeves will play better as well....He certainly played better in the 2nd half of the season than the 1st. We don't know what Molden brings to the table since he rarely saw the field.

So, I am hoping the Texans are able to find D help in the draft, but not at the CB position. We are in dire need at the S position, a space eating tackle, and an edge rusher. We are able to fill more holes with Dunta than without him, and I havent seen anyone able to fill his leadership role.

[popanot]

This defense has been the achillies heel of the franchise for the past 4+ years. We need all the good players we can get on that side of the ball, and without a doubt, DRob is a top quality player. Perhaps not he's amoung the top-5 in the league, but he's definitely the best we have and certainly good enough to justify paying him top-level money if that's what it takes. It would be asinine for this franchise to let him walk and not have him as a key part of building a top-notch defense. Going into the '09 season with Bennett, Reeves, Molden, Petey or -insert Draftee or FA here - without DRob would be a serious step backwards, IMO.

[Roy P]

Squeak through? The Texans were 1-4 before his return to part-time status in the Lions game.

Take a look at the teams we played against in those 1st 5 games and what their records were at the end of the season.

Did we need Dunta to win against Detroit, Cincinnatti, and Cleveland? He just wasn't enough to keep the Raiders in check.

My point is, a single player who is not a top 10 player at his position should not be paid like one. Would I like to keep him? Yeah, I like what he brings to the team. Would I pay him more than Reeves? Yeah, simply because we paid him too much, so it's only fair to overpay Dunta too.

[Joshua]

With all this talk about top 10 salaries and whether Dunta is worthy or not, I thought I'd post the USA Today's database of corner salaries for 2008 -

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playersbyposition.aspx?pos=139

[coloradodude]

My point is, a single player who is not a top 10 player at his position should not be paid like one.



Solid point regarding any player or any position.

[sinnister]

With all this talk about top 10 salaries and whether Dunta is worthy or not, I thought I'd post the USA Today's database of corner salaries for 2008 -

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playersbyposition.aspx?pos=139

Wow!! Nice article.....DROB is about to get a significant raise. Considering we are paying JReeves 7M, I think DROB is worth much more than him......Granted, we overpaid for Reeves, but that isnt DROB's fault.

[dadmg]

If they're nervous about health, they should franchise him, but I'd go straight ahead for the long term deal. There are few teams with good enough secondaries to let a corner as good and young as Dunta go and we're about as far away from that level as can be. I have no doubt that he'll bounce back next year just as I had little doubt he'd struggle this year. Maybe we can even get a slight discount if we sign him long-term now because of the "injury concerns."

[Nconroe]

I agree we ought to try and sign Dunta to a long term deal. He's almost all the way back from injury and a great team leader and mentor for the young guys.

For Reeves, looks like cap number is around 3.5M/yr, still plenty, but not 7m, perhaps first year included a signing bonus.

[nunusguy]

I agree we ought to try and sign Dunta to a long term deal. He's almost all the way back from injury and a great team leader and mentor for the young guys.

But is he really, and if the Texans are uncertain about that issue it's what really complicates their decision about what kind of a deal to offer D-Rob ?
I agree with you about D-Robs value in the locker-room, but his on-field skills ultimately is what it's all about and I thought his '08 comeback, while remarkable, was also inconsistant and inconclusive in answering the question about him fully recapturing his preinjury-2007 skill-set/athletic ability ?

[cadams]

I don't know what it would take to get him signed to a longterm deal, but if they f-tag him, that is going to be extremely expensive, I am guessing something like 15 million, and if he is all the way back then his next contract will have to be huge, because he will probably be the best corner on the market (and would be this year as well). I say sign him now and maybe you can get a discount based on the "uncertainty".

[Keith]

if they f-tag him, that is going to be extremely expensive, I am guessing something like 15 million
No, too high. The F-tag at CB is probably going to be in the neighborhood of $9.9 million.

I'm all for negotiating a long-term deal with him because (1) I heart him, obviously, but (2) because I agree with you in that I think the Texans can get something of a bargain price on a player I think will prove to be much better than anything we saw in 2008.

But there's risk, and even at a discount, Dunta is probably going to command guaranteed money in ohhhh the $15-17 million range? Tough to say. Chris Gamble is rumored to have received $20-23 million "guaranteed" in a 6-yr deal late last year. (I use quotes on the guaranteed since $10 million of that comes in the form of a roster bonus due to him next month.)

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if he is signed to a multi-year contract, the Texans will be paying Dunta more - much more - cash-wise in 2009 than the $10 million or so as a F-tagged player. The long vs. short decision might just boil down to how much risk Rick Smith (and ultimately Bob McNair) are willing to take on Dunta for 2009.

[dalemurphy]

I would transition tag him. He would cost about $2 million less and it would give the team some protection while he tried to shop himself around the NFL. If he's asking for top dollar, he can find out for himself that he can't get it and will likely be priced down into something the team is willing to pay. If he signs with someone else, we still have an opportunity to match.

[nunusguy]

I would transition tag him. He would cost about $2 million less and it would give the team some protection while he tried to shop himself around the NFL. If he's asking for top dollar, he can find out for himself that he can't get it and will likely be priced down into something the team is willing to pay. If he signs with someone else, we still have an opportunity to match.

Honestly Dale, don't you think many of these guys in D-Robs positon (coming into FA like D-Rob is), already have a pretty good feel for what's out there. I mean I think the players (thru their agents) not only talk to other teams but carry on active negotiations prior to actually become a FA. Officially I know its strictly forbidden, but I suspect it routinely happens every year.

[cadams]

I would transition tag him. He would cost about $2 million less and it would give the team some protection while he tried to shop himself around the NFL. If he's asking for top dollar, he can find out for himself that he can't get it and will likely be priced down into something the team is willing to pay. If he signs with someone else, we still have an opportunity to match.

dunta would get pretty close to top dollar on the open market. he would be the most sought after db fa this offseason.

[NBT]

dunta would get pretty close to top dollar on the open market. he would be the most sought after db fa this offseason.

Dunta WAS good, yes! But last year he was coming off a bad injury. He only got to play in the last part of the season and he still wasn't full speed yet. So it is still problematical if he is or WILL, get back to his old self. So saying, I want the Texans to continue to negotiate in good faith until we find out what his fair market price is going to be. If, say by June, he is not signed, is time enough to think about the dreaded tag.

[Keith]

If Dunta is indeed tagged, it will happen in February. I don't have the exact date on me, but it will definitely be before UFA signing begins.

fyi - I'm guessing the transition tag is roughly $8.0 million... problem is a match might mean a poison pill, which would be a big problem. Plus, transition tags come with no compensation. Both reasons are why you don't see the transition tag used all that much.

and... welcome dalemurphy. Braves fan?

[RunninRaven]

Is a transition tag the same as a franchise tag?

[Keith]

They're different. F-tags are offered the top 5 average salaries, T-tags are top 10. F-tags give the old/current team a right to match, and if they choose not to, they then receive two first round picks from the new team. T-tags give the old/current team the right to match an offer but no trade compensation if they choose not to.

Scout.com seems to think they know the tag #s for 2009, though I haven't confirmed yet how official this is. Fwiw though:

Franchise/Transition Tag Levels

Quarterback
Franchise $14.651m
Transition $12.440m

Running Back
Franchise $6.621m
Transition $5.925m

Wide Receiver
Franchise $9.884m
Transition $8.393m

Tight End
Franchise $4.462m
Transition $4.065m

Offensive Linemen
Franchise $8.451m
Transition $7.744m

Kicker/Punter
Franchise $2.483m
Transition $2.264m

Defensive Tackle
Franchise $6.058m
Transition $5.45m

Defensive End
Franchise $8.991m
Transition $7.777m

Linebacker
Franchise $8.304m
Transition $7.480m

Safety
Franchise $6.342m
Transition $5.130m

Cornerback
Franchise $9.957m
Transition $8.374m

http://det.scout.com/a.z?s=93&p=2&c=834345

[popanot]

They should at least it make so that the T-Tag is compensated with one #1. Some teams would probably be willing to spend or receive a #1 for some players. I could certainly see that being the case with someone like DRob.

[cadams]

Dunta WAS good, yes! But last year he was coming off a bad injury. He only got to play in the last part of the season and he still wasn't full speed yet. So it is still problematical if he is or WILL, get back to his old self. So saying, I want the Texans to continue to negotiate in good faith until we find out what his fair market price is going to be. If, say by June, he is not signed, is time enough to think about the dreaded tag.

I dont think you can wait until June to decide to tag a player. I am pretty certain they have to decide in the next few weeks.

[cadams]

They should at least it make so that the T-Tag is compensated with one #1. Some teams would probably be willing to spend or receive a #1 for some players. I could certainly see that being the case with someone like DRob.

I think that is effectively how the f-tag works. I don't recall anyone having to actually give up two, first rouders on a guy, I am sure it has happened, I just can't recall. More often once the f-tag is used if another team is interested they work out a trade with the current team for something below the two 1st rounders

[dalemurphy]

If Dunta is indeed tagged, it will happen in February. I don't have the exact date on me, but it will definitely be before UFA signing begins.

fyi - I'm guessing the transition tag is roughly $8.0 million... problem is a match might mean a poison pill, which would be a big problem. Plus, transition tags come with no compensation. Both reasons are why you don't see the transition tag used all that much.

and... welcome dalemurphy. Braves fan?

Big Braves fan but I've lost interested in baseball the past 5-8 years. I used to post a fair amount on Houstonprofootball.com and recognize you from there.

I'm assuming that poison pills are kind of a non-issue with the collective bargaining agreement ending and the uncapped year in 2010. But, that's just a guess. I just think the transition tag is a way to negotiate with Dunta if he's demanding huge dollars without destroying the team's relationship with him, franchise him, and end up in the same position next year- only with a higher franchise level.

[Keith]

I used to post a fair amount on Houstonprofootball.com and recognize you from there. Glad you're here. Thanks for (re-)joining.

I'm assuming that poison pills are kind of a non-issue with the collective bargaining agreement ending and the uncapped year in 2010.
A team could structure an offer though to make the entire signing bonus into a roster bonus executable 3/15/09. If a team with oodles of cap room like the Eagles really wanted Dunta, then a transition tag could screw the Texans in an effort to shave just $2 million off the tag. So the poison pills are still an issue at least one more season.

No team would ever give up two #1s for Dunta, but if the Texans f-tagged him, they might be in a better position to negotiate a trade for more reasonable compensation if so desired, a position that would be basically non-existent if Dunta received a transition tag.

[Keith]

More on Dunta and the tag written here:
http://www.inthebullseye.com/archive/2009/20090130.html

Those franchise and transition #s I posted in this thread yesterday look good, too.

[nero THE zero]

Wonderful article as usual. You captured my thoughts perfectly.

[nunusguy]

Dunta Robinson, Texans. Age: 27.
Dunta Robinson is a talented corner who played relatively well coming off a torn ACL. However, the question is whether or not he can stay healthy.
http://www.walterfootball.com/freeagents2009CB.php
**************************************
In Walterfootball.com website, they have D-Rob rated as only the 7th best
CB available in FA, so one has to assume he's way down the list in the ranking of all active corners in the league. I dunno how others feel about this
ranking, but if its accurate then if D-Rob is holding out for big bucks sounds as if he's not being very realistic ?
****
For comparison, they give D-Rob a "3 star" ranking while they assign a "41/2
star" ranking to OD, their top rated TE among FA/UFA this year.
****
Owen Daniels (RFA), Texans. Age: 26.
Owen Daniels has emerged as one of the top tight ends in the league. In his third season, he caught 70 passes for 862 yards. His numbers would have been even better if Matt Schaub didn't miss a handful of games.

[cadams]

I would be willing to bet that they have him ranked like that because he is coming off an injury.

[Roy P]

I wonder if we let Dunta walk so we can go after #3 Dom Foxworth. He played in Denver, right?

[kRocket]

I am wondering something similar. There has been some consensus that a DT is one of our highest priorities. A space eater that will turn Mario loose. One of the top DT's in the NFL is available and that is Albert Haynesworth. He has been called a thug, he will be our thug and that makes a difference. He brings the spirit and grit to the defense that we lack today. To help pay his exorbitant payroll we would have to let DRob go. Then our number one draft choice is open to get Robert Ayres or a CB if we think we still need a CB. Albert is what makes the Titans one of the best defenses in the NFL and as we saw during the playoffs defense ruled, quite obviously.

[RunninRaven]

If we let Dunta walk so we can sign Haynesworth's punk, oft-injured ass to a big deal I'm going to be PISSED.

[kRocket]

Fat Albert is one of the top two or three DT's in the league and DRob was not even in the top 5 CB's before he was hurt. We don't really know if he can get back to where he was much less get better. Are we really going to pay a bunch of cash to keep an unknown commodity? I think Roy P. may have been joking but I am not. The other offense cannot double team two of our defensive people at the same time. Mario is considerably better than Vanden Bosch and the Titan line is considered one of the best in football. Okoye ought to come on strong in his third year or be considered a bust. He was still the fourth youngest DLineman in the NFL at the beginning of Training Camp last year. And again you have the draft to fill in the blanks.

Haynesworth did start 14 games last year where he had 51 tackles, including 41 solo, and 8.5 sacks. Sorry, but I would make the trade-off any day.

[dalemurphy]

Fat Albert is one of the top two or three DT's in the league and DRob was not even in the top 5 CB's before he was hurt. We don't really know if he can get back to where he was much less get better. Are we really going to pay a bunch of cash to keep an unknown commodity? I think Roy P. may have been joking but I am not. The other offense cannot double team two of our defensive people at the same time. Mario is considerably better than Vanden Bosch and the Titan line is considered one of the best in football. Okoye ought to come on strong in his third year or be considered a bust. He was still the fourth youngest DLineman in the NFL at the beginning of Training Camp last year. And again you have the draft to fill in the blanks.

Haynesworth did start 14 games last year where he had 51 tackles, including 41 solo, and 8.5 sacks. Sorry, but I would make the trade-off any day.

I can't argue that Dunta is the better player. However, a few things to keep in mind:

1. Dunta has been pretty good despite entiring his prime with a horrific defensive staff and very little talent surrounding him- followed by the injury.

2. Meanwhile, even when Haynesworth is on the bench, guys like JJones and others I've never heard of dominate the interior line for Tennessee. Clearly, the Tennessee DL coach and coordinator has been excellent for his and the defense'sdevelopment.

3. Leadership! Dunta is a good leader, Albert ain't.

My point is that Dunta next year and the years following may turn out to be a greater asset to the Texans than Albert would, if he were here. Plus, I don't want to have to root for that SOB!

[kRocket]

I can't argue that Dunta is the better player. However, a few things to keep in mind:

1. Dunta has been pretty good despite entiring his prime with a horrific defensive staff and very little talent surrounding him- followed by the injury.

2. Meanwhile, even when Haynesworth is on the bench, guys like JJones and others I've never heard of dominate the interior line for Tennessee. Clearly, the Tennessee DL coach and coordinator has been excellent for his and the defense'sdevelopment.

3. Leadership! Dunta is a good leader, Albert ain't.

My point is that Dunta next year and the years following may turn out to be a greater asset to the Texans than Albert would, if he were here. Plus, I don't want to have to root for that SOB!

1. Dunta was pretty good and may still be, but he may not be as good as he was and I feel he will want a big payday anyway.

2. If you look at the Stats nobody came close to AH's productivity for the Titans. For that matter AH did better than any 2 of our DT's put together.

3. We haven't had a true leader on the defense since Aaron Glenn (started 1 game for the saints last year) and Jamie Sharper (retired injury) left after 2004. That has been hailed as one of our biggest hurdles all year and back into last.

To be honest I believe your last statement is the real reason you don't want him. You (and many others) just don't like him. Al or Jerry will get him and just get that much better.

[kravix]

I like DRob, but he is not one of the best corners in the league. He has the potential to be very very good,the lack of talent around him, and piss poor schemes his whole career dont help. Great players standout no matter where they are though.

I dont agree that he should make top money. I would pay him middle of the road money though.

[cadams]

1. Dunta was pretty good and may still be, but he may not be as good as he was and I feel he will want a big payday anyway.

2. If you look at the Stats nobody came close to AH's productivity for the Titans. For that matter AH did better than any 2 of our DT's put together.

3. We haven't had a true leader on the defense since Aaron Glenn (started 1 game for the saints last year) and Jamie Sharper (retired injury) left after 2004. That has been hailed as one of our biggest hurdles all year and back into last.

To be honest I believe your last statement is the real reason you don't want him. You (and many others) just don't like him. Al or Jerry will get him and just get that much better.

I think paying AH would be a bad move. I think once he gets that big contract his production will drop

[Roy P]

More on Dunta and the tag written here:
http://www.inthebullseye.com/archive/2009/20090130.html

Those franchise and transition #s I posted in this thread yesterday look good, too.

Okay, this is what I'd do. I'm thinking a 4 year deal worth $33 Million and I'd guarantee $18 Million. If he wants a 5 year deal, I'd be willing to go $36/$21 because I'd be hesitant to go that extra year. It sounds like a lot of money, but it's probably in the ball park of what he's worth.

[WMH]

Interesting article on Dunta. Not sure how accurate this is, but if it is true, they they are $3MM to $6MM apart on the guarranteed money.

http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2009m2d9-Dunta-watch--expect-more-franchise-tags-this-week

[nunusguy]

Interesting article on Dunta. Not sure how accurate this is, but if it is true, they they are $3MM to $6MM apart on the guarranteed money.

http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2009m2d9-Dunta-watch--expect-more-franchise-tags-this-week
From the above link -
As far as Dunta, we've covered this before (links below) but if I had to guess what's been going on, and what will happen sometime in the next 11 days this is it:

"Dunta and his agent want something close to Chris Gamble money, which was $23 million guaranteed.
The Texans have an offer on the table between $17 and $20 million guaranteed.
Dunta and his agent will not accept the Texans offer
The Texans will use the non-exclusive franchise tag on Dunta which will guarantee him $9.96 million for one season, if he signs the tender"
*************************************************
With the statement "but if I had to guess what's been going on", the writer atleast reveals his comments are pure speculation. On the other hand, it seems like a plausible scenario.
And I would think he's worth "Chris Gamble money", if not for the residual uncertainty about his full recovery to form pre-2007 season ending injury.

[kRocket]

Okay, this is what I'd do. I'm thinking a 4 year deal worth $33 Million and I'd guarantee $18 Million. If he wants a 5 year deal, I'd be willing to go $36/$21 because I'd be hesitant to go that extra year. It sounds like a lot of money, but it's probably in the ball park of what he's worth.

I can't get used to the numbers thrown around for players. We don't even know if Dunta can walk for 4-5 more years much less play at a higher level than ever to be worth that kind of money. He is not a real 'lock down' CB in my mind (good, but not that good). I am not saying he isn't worth it , but I am saying with the economic situation like it is tickets may go unsold this year. I would be very careful of paying that kind of money unless he could guarantee a deep run into the playoffs and I don't think he can.

[James]

Leigh Bodden was just cut by the Lions, I'm thinking, bring Dunta and add Bodden, I feel pretty decent about our corners . . . I know hes had a couple of down years and some injury problems, but he'd sure be a value get if he performed like he did in many of his Browns seasons.

[dalemurphy]

Leigh Bodden was just cut by the Lions, I'm thinking, bring Dunta and add Bodden, I feel pretty decent about our corners . . . I know hes had a couple of down years and some injury problems, but he'd sure be a value get if he performed like he did in many of his Browns seasons.

I don't think Bodden is worth it. I don't see him as a significant upgrade over Reeves or Bennett and certainly his ceiling isn't higher than Molden. I thought about Bodden too when I saw it, but, if we keep Dunta, I just don't think we spend any significant resources on CB. Our CB depth is actually pretty good.

[nunusguy]

I dunno, but so far neither D-Rob or Rick Smith has blinked and frankly I'm surprised. I thought we'd have a deal by now, but perhaps D-Rob is demanding a really, really big payday or there's my own fallback theory which is he already has another team/city where he actually would prefer to play ?
Another thing, it looks like a week from Thursday (2/19) is the drop-dead date for the Texans as that's the deadline for them to pop D-Rob with the franchise tag designation even though FA isn't until the 27th.

[Keith]

PFT.com estimating Dunta's open market demand:


And now that his rookie contract has expired, Robinson is regarded by many as the top corner in free agency. (All cornerbacks to hit the market are right here (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/02/09/2009-projected-free-agents-cornerback/).)

[UPDATE: Obviously, Nnamdi Asomugha is the best corner in free agency, but the Raiders are expected to use the exclusive level of the franchise tag on him, which will prevent him from testing the waters.]

That perception could prompt the Texans to use the franchise tag on Robinson, which would require the team to tender to Robinson a one-year deal worth $9.957 million.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/02/15/dunta-in-demand/

[Roy P]

PFT.com estimating Dunta's open market demand:



http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/02/15/dunta-in-demand/

I'll stick with my proposal of 4 years $33, $18 guaranteed.

[nunusguy]

I'll stick with my proposal of 4 years $33, $18 guaranteed.
I dunno, but I'd bet anything under 20 M guaranteed money (whatever the term of the contract) won't bring D-Rob ?
I haven't got a player on the Texans roster I'm more sentimental about than D-Rob, but like the man said this is business and I didn't see the same player
last fall that I saw before his injury in 2007. Now I understand that what he did in 2008 was remarkable after the extemely severe nature of his 2007injuries, but the Texans would be foolish if they didn't have a certain degree of concern about whether or not D-Rob makes a 100% recovery.

[Roy P]

I dunno, but I'd bet anything under 20 M guaranteed money (whatever the term of the contract) won't bring D-Rob ?


We could just get his replacement, Alphonso Smith at #15 and be done with it.

[Keith]

From McClain's chron.com blog (http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2009/02/join_the_monday_nfl_combine_ch.html) yesterday:
John McClain: They're negotiating. He could be franchised, but I don't think they'll do that. They'll either sign him to a long-term deal or he'll be gone. I'm hearing he wants the $23 mil that Chris Gamble was guaranteed and they're offering in the neighborhood of $18 or $19. Andre Johnson got $15 two years ago. Mario got $26.3, I believe. Either way, Dunta will get the second-most guaranteed money in franchise history if he re-signs.

Thursday's deadline to tag is fast approaching. I'm guessing he re-signs, but I can't believe the Texans would refuse to tag him if he doesn't.

[dalemurphy]

From McClain's chron.com blog (http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2009/02/join_the_monday_nfl_combine_ch.html) yesterday:


Thursday's deadline to tag is fast approaching. I'm guessing he re-signs, but I can't believe the Texans would refuse to tag him if he doesn't.

Someone on texanstalk.com had a good and somewhat worrisome theory about why the texans would tag Dunta:

basically, Bob McNair, feeling compelled to "do right" by Dunta Robinson, promises his agent that he won't franchise him and will give Dunta an opportunity to find his market value.

I hope this doesn't happen but I think it fits McNair's profile and could be a possibility. Hopefully, we'll get a contract done and won't have to worry about it.

[TexanJedi]

The Texans would be foolish to not tag Dunta, if a deal can't be reached. Not tagging him would create another hole to be addressed in free agency or the draft and I doubt the cost of fixing that hole would be any cheaper. Hopefully he gets signed for a not too ridiculous price.

[nunusguy]

The Texans would be foolish to not tag Dunta, if a deal can't be reached. Not tagging him would create another hole to be addressed in free agency or the draft and I doubt the cost of fixing that hole would be any cheaper. Hopefully he gets signed for a not too ridiculous price.
But what if the Texans sincerely don't think he is or will ever return to his former self ? Do you think he is, I know I've got my doubts ?

[TexanJedi]

But what if the Texans sincerely don't think he is or will ever return to his former self ? Do you think he is, I know I've got my doubts ?

If they don't think he can get back to a very good to elite level, then of course they should move on. However, the mere fact that according to McClain they are offering somewhere in the neighborhood of $18 million guaranteed that leads me to believe his health won't be much of an issue. If they are not completely certain then all the more reason to f-tag him, IMO.

[papabear]

But what if the Texans sincerely don't think he is or will ever return to his former self ? Do you think he is, I know I've got my doubts ?


I'm probably more sure that he will never again be the same than I am the other way around. I still think he can be a very good player, but I don't think he will ever be an elite or top corner back in this league. After his outstanding rookie year every one got carried away and assumed he was going to be the next great corner. I don't think that ever happened before the injury, and even without the injury I didn't see him as ever being a top 5 CB. Scheme and talent around him played a part, but I think my opinion of his play was definitely lower than the standard consensus was among fans.

Now with the injury I kind of doubt he will ever be more than an above average/good CB. He was flat out bad at times last season, but there's no way that a good part of that wasn't just getting the rust out. I broke my leg once, and it was a looooong time before I felt completely normal, and I had a much less severe injury than Dunta did...and pick-up basketball and Rec level soccer is a long way from strapping on pads in the NFL.

That being said, CB's are so sought after that those above average guys usually end up getting top dollar from somebody. I think Dunta does bring a lot of leadership and drive to the defense and I hope he gets signed for a couple of reasons:

1. CB's are hard to find...decent ones at least. Robinson should be fully healed ( as much as he ever will be) this year and will likely be a player that could start for the majority of the teams in the league. We could get lucky in the draft, but you never want to enter a draft where your MUST find a starter at a certain position. Any Free agent CB capable of locking down a starting job is going to be expensive (look at Reeves). I would rather go with a more known quantity with D-Rob...even with the question marks.

2. Last time this team thought it was good enough to get rid of some of it's veteran leaders it was a disaster. I think Dunta's important enough in the locker room that he needs to be back. With some of our early draft picks (Andre, Pitts, D-Rob) it's sometimes hard to believe that these guys are the veterans on the team. They have already lasted longer than the average NFL career.

I'm not sure how comfortable I am giving him a big long term deal. I think Franchising him might be the best option, but if he has a great year his price could skyrocket. My guess is that the Texans and Robinsion split the difference sometime in the next couple of days. If they don't I see no reason why not to franchise him. We don't need the tag for someone else, and with the space cleared up from releasing Green and Greenwood we should have enough space.

For the record I consider getting Owen Daniels and Demeco Ryans locked up long term as much as a priority as Robinson. Ryans still has a year or two left , and Daniels is just an RFA. Either way I would like to know that we've got that done as well.

[Joshua]

I'm probably more sure that he will never again be the same than I am the other way around. I still think he can be a very good player, but I don't think he will ever be an elite or top corner back in this league. After his outstanding rookie year every one got carried away and assumed he was going to be the next great corner. I don't think that ever happened before the injury, and even without the injury I didn't see him as ever being a top 5 CB. Scheme and talent around him played a part, but I think my opinion of his play was definitely lower than the standard consensus was among fans.

Now with the injury I kind of doubt he will ever be more than an above average/good CB. He was flat out bad at times last season, but there's no way that a good part of that wasn't just getting the rust out. I broke my leg once, and it was a looooong time before I felt completely normal, and I had a much less severe injury than Dunta did...and pick-up basketball and Rec level soccer is a long way from strapping on pads in the NFL.

That being said, CB's are so sought after that those above average guys usually end up getting top dollar from somebody. I think Dunta does bring a lot of leadership and drive to the defense and I hope he gets signed for a couple of reasons:

1. CB's are hard to find...decent ones at least. Robinson should be fully healed ( as much as he ever will be) this year and will likely be a player that could start for the majority of the teams in the league. We could get lucky in the draft, but you never want to enter a draft where your MUST find a starter at a certain position. Any Free agent CB capable of locking down a starting job is going to be expensive (look at Reeves). I would rather go with a more known quantity with D-Rob...even with the question marks.

2. Last time this team thought it was good enough to get rid of some of it's veteran leaders it was a disaster. I think Dunta's important enough in the locker room that he needs to be back. With some of our early draft picks (Andre, Pitts, D-Rob) it's sometimes hard to believe that these guys are the veterans on the team. They have already lasted longer than the average NFL career.

I'm not sure how comfortable I am giving him a big long term deal. I think Franchising him might be the best option, but if he has a great year his price could skyrocket. My guess is that the Texans and Robinsion split the difference sometime in the next couple of days. If they don't I see no reason why not to franchise him. We don't need the tag for someone else, and with the space cleared up from releasing Green and Greenwood we should have enough space.

For the record I consider getting Owen Daniels and Demeco Ryans locked up long term as much as a priority as Robinson. Ryans still has a year or two left , and Daniels is just an RFA. Either way I would like to know that we've got that done as well.

All very good points and I agree virtually entirely. Seeing teams like the Jags pay big bucks for players like Drayton Florence only to turn around and cut them the following year scares me. Anyone in free agency is going to be overpaid. At least if you overpay Dunta, you have a pretty good idea what you're getting.

[WMH]

I think Dunta's price tag just went up....

From PFT:

COLTS, HAYDEN WORK OUT A DEAL
Posted by Mike Florio on February 18, 2009, 9:42 p.m.
The Indianapolis Colts planned to use the franchise tag on cornerback Kelvin Hayden.

As it turns out, they won’t have to.

According to Adam Schefter of NFL Network, the Colts and Hayden worked out a deal on the eve of the deadline for using the franchise tag.

It’s a five-year, $43 million deal, with $23 million in guaranteed money.

Hayden becomes the team’s fourth player who received $20 million or more in guaranteed money on a long-term deal. The others are quarterback Peyton Manning, defensive end Dwight Freeney, and safety Bob Sanders.

[Keith]

The plot thickens, eh?

More evidence in how to slot Robinson's value in the market.

All I know is I'll be plenty miffed if Dunta has neither a contract nor a franchise tag by the end of tomorrow.

[jppaul]

I am sick at this mismanagement. You don't let an asset walk away with out getting anything for him, this is a business, and they are about to let one of the team's best assets become a free agent without any avenue of recompense. :confused:

[dalemurphy]

I am sick at this mismanagement. You don't let an asset walk away with out getting anything for him, this is a business, and they are about to let one of the team's best assets become a free agent without any avenue of recompense. :confused:

I agree with your concern... but, the deadline hasn't passed yet. So, save your outrage for tomorrow afternoon. Also, let's not forget how poor Houston sports media coverage is. He could have been franchised on Monday but the fat man can only focus on one thing at a time.

[RunninRaven]

Yeah, I'm not taking McClane's report as proof of anything. I still have confidence that this team will either sign Dunta or franchise him.

Brass can't be too happy with the Colts right now, though.

[cadams]

I am sick at this mismanagement. You don't let an asset walk away with out getting anything for him, this is a business, and they are about to let one of the team's best assets become a free agent without any avenue of recompense. :confused:

they are't going to franchise him until the last second so they can try to get a deal worked out, so i wouldnt go getting mad just yet

[Keith]

Yeah, I'm not taking McClane's report as proof of anything. I still have confidence that this team will either sign Dunta or franchise him.

I think this is true. From McClain's article in today's chron.com (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6270212.html):

The only way the Texans are guaranteed of keeping Robinson is designating him as the first franchise player in team history. The deadline for teams to franchise players is 3 p.m. today.

If the Texans use the franchise tag on Robinson, he’ll get a one-year contract of $9.957 million. That also would give them more time to negotiate a new deal. ...

Both sides have refused to discuss the negotiations.

That last sentence is most telling. It is not that unusual for the Texans to withhold comment from the chron, but for an agent and player to keep shut really hurts the reporter's ability to get anything notable.

The first two paragraphs are about the most he has mentioned the f-tag without shoving it aside as if it weren't a possibility.

Honestly, I love me some Dunta... but even I'm nervous about giving him $20+ million guaranteed. I would have tagged him myself a week ago and twice on Sunday.

[dalemurphy]

I think this is true. From McClain's article in today's chron.com (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6270212.html):


That last sentence is most telling. It is not that unusual for the Texans to withhold comment from the chron, but for an agent and player to keep shut really hurts the reporter's ability to get anything notable.

The first two paragraphs are about the most he has mentioned the f-tag without shoving it aside as if it weren't a possibility.

Honestly, I love me some Dunta... but even I'm nervous about giving him $20+ million guaranteed. I would have tagged him myself a week ago and twice on Sunday.

Desperation breed innovation. So, here goes:

I'm going to take the fact that Dunta and his agent refuse to comment about the ongoing negotiations as a sign that a deal is pretty close. Otherwise, players and agents generally make some public declarations in order to put some pressure on the organization or do so simply out of frustration. While Dunta is certainly a quality person and employee, silence hasn't exactly been his M.O. when he sees things he doesn't like.

[nunusguy]

If they don't tag D-Rob today it probably means the Texans don't think he's got it anymore and they're very pessimistic about him returning to his previous form. He's popular among teammates & fans, but 10M is alot of money for one year to just confirm what they may already have concluded about a player which they feel is only a shadow of his former self ?

[Mike]

As of 10:37 the Texans have slapped Dunta with the Franchise tag, per the Chronicle.

chron.com

I hope that they can negotiate a long term deal. This also means that I won't have to scrap my Steel Blue #23 jersey.

[Joshua]

As of 10:37 the Texans have slapped Dunta with the Franchise tag, per the Chronicle.

chron.com

I hope that they can negotiate a long term deal. This also means that I won't have to scrap my Steel Blue #23 jersey.

Good to hear it. While people can disagree whether he's worth this much, the Texans have the cap room and I think Dunta is worth overpaying for 1 year to see if he can bounce back.

[jppaul]

As of 10:37 the Texans have slapped Dunta with the Franchise tag, per the Chronicle.

chron.com

I hope that they can negotiate a long term deal. This also means that I won't have to scrap my Steel Blue #23 jersey.

Hallejuh. My outrage was wasted apparently.

[painekiller]

The key here is that they have exclusive right to negotiate with him. Now you know he will be a Texan this season, and he knows they want him back.

the negative can be Dunta getting upset about the tag. If the team gets aggressive in signing him to a long term deal, i can see no foul. I still think they get a multi year deal done before camp.

[Keith]

To clarify, the Texans used the non-exclusive tag on Dunta. At least this is what McClain reported... a scenario he thought wouldn't happen all along. Whoops.

The non-exclusive part means he can negotiate with other teams. Should one sign him to an offer sheet, the Texans have the right to match OR receive 2 first rounders in return.

The Texans went thru a similar scenaio with the Rams and Orlando Pace a number of years ago. Pace basically took what the Texans were planning to offer him, and the Rams agreed to offer those terms to him.

No team is going to want to give up two 1sts for Dunta, but his rights could be traded for something less. I expect though that the Texans would want more in a trade than what any other team would be willing to give up for him, so I don't think he's going anywhere this year.

So... the worry now becomes 'when will Dunta report?' since his health in 2009 is of vital importance to him.

[papabear]

I think Dunta's price tag just went up....

From PFT:

COLTS, HAYDEN WORK OUT A DEAL
Posted by Mike Florio on February 18, 2009, 9:42 p.m.
The Indianapolis Colts planned to use the franchise tag on cornerback Kelvin Hayden.

As it turns out, they won’t have to.

According to Adam Schefter of NFL Network, the Colts and Hayden worked out a deal on the eve of the deadline for using the franchise tag.

It’s a five-year, $43 million deal, with $23 million in guaranteed money.

Hayden becomes the team’s fourth player who received $20 million or more in guaranteed money on a long-term deal. The others are quarterback Peyton Manning, defensive end Dwight Freeney, and safety Bob Sanders.

Isn't that about what Robinson has been asking for, around 23 Mill or so gauranteed?

[WMH]

Isn't that about what Robinson has been asking for, around 23 Mill or so gauranteed?

That is what was reported. Problem is that I am sure Dunta feels that he should be paid like a top 5 corner, not "just a guy."

[nero THE zero]

The non-exclusive part means he can negotiate with other teams. Should one sign him to an offer sheet, the Texans have the right to match and receive 2 first rounders in return.


Shouldn't that read:
"The non-exclusive part means he can negotiate with other teams. Should one sign him to an offer sheet, the Texans have the right to match or receive 2 first rounders in return. "

[Keith]

Shouldn't that read:

Yeah, fixed it, thanks. I never proofread my stuff enough! :p

[gunslinger57]

Well, the Raiders just gave Asomugha a 3 yr. $45 million dollar deal with $28.3 million guaranteed. I'm thinking Al's not getting a Christmas card from McNair this year.

[nunusguy]

Well, the Raiders just gave Asomugha a 3 yr. $45 million dollar deal with $28.3 million guaranteed. I'm thinking Al's not getting a Christmas card from McNair this year.

Wow that granteed money is a big number, but this guy is supposedly the
leagues top corner at this time.
But here's my question: where do the Raiders keep getting this cap from ?
Last year they draft the what #3, #4 overall and year before that they had the #1 overall. It's like a bottomless pit.

[Keith]

Well, this was predictable. Dunta says he feels betrayed. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3919203)
Robinson said general manager Rick Smith told he and his agent he would not be tagged in recent weeks.

"Tagging was out of the question according to Rick," Robinson told The Associated Press. "I was told that. I just feel betrayed. I'm disappointed that they lied to me."...

"Dunta is an important part of our team and organization," Smith said. "We worked extremely hard to try and get a long-term contract done with him. However we were unable to reach an agreement. We hope to reach a long-term deal that ensures that Dunta will remain a Houston Texan for years to come."

Robinson learned of his status from reporters calling for interviews about the situation. ...

"I'm still able to play football and I love my team," he said. "I love playing for the city of Houston. Something somebody does or something somebody says is not going to affect my game in a negative way."

At the end of last season, Robinson said he hoped to finish his career in Houston. Now the 26-year-old isn't sure that's the right move.

"Because of my teammates and because of this city and my family ... I really don't want to leave," he said. "But a situation like this makes it much, much harder to stay."

[Keith]

So... the worry now becomes 'when will Dunta report?' since his health in 2009 is of vital importance to him.

Ooh, predictible again!


“I don’t know what I’m going to do,” Robinson said. “If you ask me right now, I wouldn’t be there (training camp).


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6269456.html

Other quotes from the chron.com article:


“I’m upset and frustrated because they were dishonest with me,” Robinson said. “They told me they weren’t going to franchise me. I wasn’t expecting it." ...

“Look, making $10 million is a blessing, even though I wanted a long-term deal,” Robinson said. “But I was told I wouldn’t get tagged. That’s dishonest, and I’m mad about it.

“I don’t appreciate him (Smith) telling my agent that I wouldn’t get tagged and then doing it, anyway.” ...


For starters, it'd be kind of a "d*ck move" (anyone else watch the Venture Brothers?) by Rick Smith to not be so forthcoming. You'd think he'd mention the possibility since it might have motivated Dunta and his agent to find a middle ground before today.

On the other hand, how f'ing naive must Dunta and his agent be to believe that there would be no shot a being tagged? I mean, come on. Seriously.

[jppaul]

Give the man his Gamble money. Hayden got a huge contract and Hayden can't hold Dunta's jock. wtf.

[Roy P]

Bob McNair, feeling compelled to "do right" by Dunta Robinson, promises his agent that he won't franchise him and will give Dunta an opportunity to find his market value.

I hope this doesn't happen but I think it fits McNair's profile and could be a possibility. Hopefully, we'll get a contract done and won't have to worry about it.

Maybe Dunta was not naive, but was hopeful that McNair was.



By the way, can we now go after Sean Jones? It looks like the Browns are not going to franchise him, so let's start bidding.

[chuck]

To clarify, the Texans used the non-exclusive tag on Dunta. At least this is what McClain reported... a scenario he thought wouldn't happen all along. Whoops.

Dude's real tied in with the team, isn't he? He gets all the scoops.

The Chronicle is a joke. ESPN broke the illegal practices story (weren't there any reporters at those practices?) and the McGrady story. The Chronicle reporters were busy finger painting and eating glue.

[edo783]

I suspect that Drob misunderstood (maybe intentionally) if Smith said something like "I don't think we will be using the F-tag", meaning "I expect to get a contract done". If he thought he would just be able to hit UFA with nothing holding him back, then both he and his agent were clueless and I sincerely doubt that is the case.

[papabear]

I suspect that Drob misunderstood (maybe intentionally) if Smith said something like "I don't think we will be using the F-tag", meaning "I expect to get a contract done". If he thought he would just be able to hit UFA with nothing holding him back, then both he and his agent were clueless and I sincerely doubt that is the case.

One thing pointed out at DGDB&D is that Dunta said that Smith told his agent they wouldn't use the F-Tag. Besides the fact that agents are generally less trustworthy than Lawyers, there's definite chance for misunderstanding. Idon't know why RD and his agent would be so shocked, but I would look at it as proof of my value...that can be used at the negotiating table. If Smith really did mislead them , then that aint right. No question about it. I still feel like something gets done though, possibly before the season.

[kravix]

Besides the fact that agents are generally less trustworthy than Lawyers, there's definite chance for misunderstanding.

Exactly! DRob is getting his info from the agent, not from the horses mouth. This could also be the reason there was no contract signage. The agent was holding out thinking they could negotiate somewhere else.

I know players hate the franchise tag, and to be told by your agent that the team was not going to do it no matter what and then it happens is sure to make you upset. But talking about not showing up until the season starts is bad form to.

[Keith]

I think this is showing up elsewhere, but Rick Smith's side is coming out today:


Smith's response amounted to what you'd expect: The Texans didn't want to and didn't plan to, but things change.
"We had a conversation very early in the negotiation process where I indicated I didn't want to use a franchise tag on Dunta and was clear about that because of the negative feelings around the tag. ...

But things change in a negotiation and we had a value that we had placed on him and there are some deals that got done at the end of the season and even as recently as this week and we felt like he fit in that area. That was our initial position for him with respect to valuing his contract and we changed on that, we offered him a deal that exceeded that, we changed a lot of different positions as the thing went, ...

So when they elected to exercise their right of declining our offer that was going to make him one of the highest paid corners I football, we exercised or option to tag him. It's just part of the deal. Now he's upset about it, I understand that. ..."

Those talks won't restart for a while. Smith said he'd let things cool down as the team deals with things that have to be addressed sooner. ...

Smith also disputed the report about Robinson learning of the tag from the media. ...which is a slap to the AP writer that covers the Texans, Kristie Rieken.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcsouth/0-7-559/Texans--Smith-responds-to-Robinson-s-charge.html

[dalemurphy]

One thing pointed out at DGDB&D is that Dunta said that Smith told his agent they wouldn't use the F-Tag. Besides the fact that agents are generally less trustworthy than Lawyers, there's definite chance for misunderstanding. Idon't know why RD and his agent would be so shocked, but I would look at it as proof of my value...that can be used at the negotiating table. If Smith really did mislead them , then that aint right. No question about it. I still feel like something gets done though, possibly before the season.

I can't really criticize Rick Smith for that "lie". First of all, it sounds like he was simply communicating his intent to sign Dunta to a long term contract. Second, he didn't gain any edge... so, he wasn't being deceptive. If Dunta had some leverage and Rick Smith asked him to give the leverage up and in return, RS would promise not to franchise him... then, he did franchise him... That would be deceptive and clearly wrong. It appears that all that happened here is that RS communicated his intent not to franchise him and then RS realized he needed to do it... Not a big deal, IMO... Though, it probably added to Dunta's disappointment level when it happened.

[Roy P]

Dunta is going to get paid more than Julius Peppers this season, so he should have a Coke and a smile.

$10M is a slap in the face I'll take all week.

[painekiller]

Dunta is going to get paid more than Julius Peppers this season, so he should have a Coke and a smile.



How do figure? Peppers is getting $16.7 million, how is Dunta getting more?

[Roy P]

How do figure? Peppers is getting $16.7 million, how is Dunta getting more?

It must have been a typo. Along my "ticker" on the NFL network they were showing Franchise players and their salaries. The Had Dunta at $9,957,000 and I think Peppers was $8,991,00 or something along those lines. It just hit me that Peppers was getting screwed if he was getting less than Robinson.

Now that you bring it up, I think I have also heard that Peppers would be getting a raise because he was franchised before.

[Nconroe]

So Dunta is highest paid Texan, injured, and he's talking of not reporting. changes my view of him and his leadership abilities quite a bite. hope he cools down and comes to his senses.

[NBT]

They tried to compare Dunta with Gamble, who just resigned with $23M guaranteed, 6year contract for about $53M. Dunta turned it down after having been only about 90% last year. I may be wrong but I'm beginning to think he just wants out of here.

Smith said he wouldn't tag him earlier, but when the FA deadline was staring us in the face and Dunta refused to sign an offer on a long term, the team simply had to protect itself.

[coloradodude]

Good job to Rick Smith!

If Dunter wants to leave them make another team give us something for him. Had we not slapped him w/the franchise tag after he had turned down the team offer, another team would've gotten him for cheaper and we would've received nothing...as in the Capers years.

Now watch us pick a CB with our first pick. Want to play games D-gone? Want to wait until the season starts to re-negotiate? Here's the team's priority...

"Smith said he'd let things cool down as the team deals with things that have to be addressed sooner."