How much longer.......

[NBT]

......Are we going to keep going with the same old gameplanning on defense. We should be more aggressive. If we give up a big play, so be it. But it is better to blitz and stunt an offense than to just lay back and let it do anything it wants to you. Any ideas?

[cadams]

I am 100% with you on this one. They need to do something different to be more consistent. hopefully dunta being back will help things out.

[popanot]

Don't count on anything happening. Kubiak doesn't seem to be the type to change anything mid-stream.

[kravix]

I have seen more blitzes, stunts, and fake blitzes this year that previously. I have to admit that the last game was the first time I saw a corner blitz. The 2-3 safety blitzes we have seen are ineffective, as well as any normal LB blitz. And even though Mario and Weaver have come off the line into coverage, bleh, they are mixing it up.

They have run blitzed alot, but it has probably hurt them as much as helped them. I think the biggest issue is poor play from our DT's and all 3 LB's, whether it is gap penetration, containment, coverage, or tackling(ok this is the worst for both).

Because of this the safeties are biting the run more and droping coverage, and it seems like every time they play zone they get beat.

From what we have seen they can blitz 50% of the time and still never get to the QB because line just folds. Its almost like the DL has no idea the LB's are comming.

[KJ3]

I don't think vanilla is quite as confusing as Richard Smith thinks it is. O-lines seem to figure out and block our blitzes quite well. You watch a team like Pittsburgh and everywhere they go their guys are getting consistent holes blown open in the opposing O-lines and pass rushers have a clear shot at the QB. How do we get that here?

[NBT]

Exactly my point. OK we have blitzed, but they are so easy to see coming that it is no problem for the opposing offense to block it. Pittsburgh always does a good job of moving in and out, disguising exactly who and when they are going to blitz.

[barrett]

Exactly my point. OK we have blitzed, but they are so easy to see coming that it is no problem for the opposing offense to block it. Pittsburgh always does a good job of moving in and out, disguising exactly who and when they are going to blitz.


Pittsburgh does a good job of having Troy Polamalu and other athletic OLBs and Safeties.

Richard Smith (and kubiak for choosing and sticking with him) should bear the brunt of our defensive failure. But our lack of effective blitzing is absolutely not a scheme thing. Very rarely do guys come free in the NFL. But a good blitzer beats a RBs block and still gets pressure. For years the Texans have blitzed with Greenwood, Charlie Anderson, CC Brown, etc... These guys run at the block and then pull up short of contact. Notice that our blitzing has been far more effective with a more explosive Zac Diles. Watch Polamalu or Adrian Wilson blitz. Those guys would terrorize QBs in any scheme. In the same way, the Steeler's vaunted scheme would look terrible with Brown, and Earl "bringing the heat."

You can blame Smith (richard) for lots of things, but not our lack of good blitzing. That one falls at the feet of Smith (Rick) who has seen no need to upgrade the worst spot on the team (safety) in any of his 2+ seasons.

[papabear]

Exactly my point. OK we have blitzed, but they are so easy to see coming that it is no problem for the opposing offense to block it. Pittsburgh always does a good job of moving in and out, disguising exactly who and when they are going to blitz.


Not saying you were one of them , but when Smith tries to incorporate some of the same zone blitz principles that Pitt does, in a 4-3 form, everyone went nuts. Remember the whole Mario standing next to Demeco experiment....or the whole it would be funny if it weren't so painful to watch sight of Weaver dropping into coverage?

The whole point of moving Mario around, have him stand up, occasionally drop into coverage was to disguise things and try and keep the offense off guard. Kubiak defended it by saying it got us off the field a few times when we used it, but it didn't really help generate pressure IMO. If you ask me there are just as many instances of players not getting it done when they had the chance as there are things that you could blame on Smith.

Jump Richard Smith all day for the defense not improving under him. I don't see any problem with criticizing his scheme either, but it holds a little less weight when he's tried some of the things you are criticizing him for already. I'll be shocked if he's still here next year if things keep going this way, but don't fall into the trap of blaming everything on him. There have been many times this year when he made a call that had our defense in a great position to make a big play or get a big stop only to have the players screw it up.

[cadams]

for the record, i liked it when they put mario next to ryans. don't want to see it on a regular basis mind you, but i like the idea of throwing it in there every once in a while to keep the defense guessing.

[KJ3]

the interchangeable safety business is wearing pretty thin. i think the idea is nice but requires a little higher caliber of safety than what we have. and probably an upgrade is needed at both for it to really work.

[papabear]

for the record, i liked it when they put mario next to ryans. don't want to see it on a regular basis mind you, but i like the idea of throwing it in there every once in a while to keep the defense guessing.


I understand what he's trying to do, but I don't think that's something that we can just throw out there on a whim. If they are going to do something like that I would think it would need to be something they work on quite a bit throughout the week. That might come at the expense of tightening up our base package...whatever that is. That's probably my biggest complaint with Smith. It seems like he tries to take the Defense one way for a few weeks and then gives up on it and tries something else. I thought we would play a lot of man when he came here...then we started playing nothing but zone. He'll zone blitz and then he won't. Some of it is driven by match-ups, but it doesn't seem like he has a clear picture of what he wants to do with this team....that makes the other Smith's job that much harder too. Flexible is good, not having any idea what you are trying to do is bad.

[dadmg]

Personally, I'd be a bit reluctant to blitz too if I had safeties like ours. Then again, leave corners out there without a pass rush and the situation will eventually break down too. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we spent this entire draft, top-to-bottom, on D starting with another DE or S. It's frustrating because we have so many pieces in place but at the same time we have great big black holes in our lineup that suck the life out of the team.

[nero THE zero]

I know most everyone has probably picked their sides so far as this conversation goes. John McClain blamed the players on the field. TC blames Richard Smith. And, ultimately, it's probably a little of both.

But, FWIW, Lance Zierlein has said that his dad (OL coach in Pittsburgh) told him that our defense has a tendency to tip it plays, and that they often knew what plays were coming from the defense based on how they were lined up.

So, we might have some players that are horrible at blitzing (re: Morlon Greenwood,) but out DC isn't doing us any favors either.

[jppaul]

I get a little bit annoyed when I see Williams run the same D-line stunt 14 times in one game

[coloradodude]

You can blame Smith (richard) for lots of things, but not our lack of good blitzing. That one falls at the feet of Smith (Rick) who has seen no need to upgrade the worst spot on the team (safety) in any of his 2+ seasons.



Good lord man! Rick Smith has been a little busy in changing/UPGRADING personnel since he's been here. The QB, the RB's, WR's, TE's, the O line, the D line, the LB's, and the secondary. With a few exceptions, this ENTIRE team has been upgraded...including the safeties.

We don't have first round picks at safety , but come on dude, the GM is actually putting forth the effort to make complete upgrades.

And if you don't think Polamula isn't coached up and told what to do, you're way wrong. This ordeal lies on our D coordinator's back.

He'll fail at his next gig too.

[barrett]

Good lord man! Rick Smith has been a little busy in changing/UPGRADING personnel since he's been here. The QB, the RB's, WR's, TE's, the O line, the D line, the LB's, and the secondary. With a few exceptions, this ENTIRE team has been upgraded...including the safeties.

We don't have first round picks at safety , but come on dude, the GM is actually putting forth the effort to make complete upgrades.

And if you don't think Polamula isn't coached up and told what to do, you're way wrong. This ordeal lies on our D coordinator's back.

He'll fail at his next gig too.

Read the whole post man! Don't pull out a sentence. I said he is a bad D-Coordinator that can be blamed for a lot (though I think Kubs gets ultimate blame since it is his team and staff).

I also never said Smith (Rick) is doing a bad job. I think he has done very well for us on the whole. I just think he has ignored our single worst position since he got here (safety with OLB just behind). Now I can accept that our priorities are elsewhere. But if I am going to applaud the moves he is making at all of the other needed positions, then I am not going to then turn around and piss and moan when the guys he hasn't upgraded yet can't play.

I'd rather piss and moan that Smith (richard) can't get production out of our D-line where he does have players, or that none of his guys can properly tackle, or that our CBs still never get their head around to find the ball.

These are coaching issues. That our slow and unathletic Safeties and OLBs (the guys who blitz) can't effectively blitz is about personnell.

[KJ3]

Flexible is good, not having any idea what you are trying to do is bad.

Richard Smith's evaluation could be wrapped up in that one sentence.

I just think he has ignored our single worst position since he got here (safety with OLB just behind).
.
since Rick Smith came in he's drafted Harrison, Barber and picked up free agent Demps. Also drafted Diles, Adibi. Not exactly ignoring. You make good points but this one is kerrrrrplunked.

[popanot]

I don't think you need to use a Top-10 pick (which is where we've been drafting pretty much since Day 1) on a S. However, what I do think this team needs is a fast, intimidating LB (or 2) and I'd love to see them use a high pick (or 2) at LB. Look at the best D's and most if not all have a great LB corp. And most of the time it's the LB that makes the bone-jarring game changing defensive play. Christ, I'd nearly give anything to see someone on this D' knock the snot out of an opposing player. I can't even remember the last time that happend - and I'm not including TJ's hit on Green because that doesn't qualify as a direct hit, IMO. I won't even get into the Richard Smith discussion because everyone not named Kubiak knows he sucks and it's beating a dead horse at this point.

[barrett]

Richard Smith's evaluation could be wrapped up in that one sentence.


since Rick Smith came in he's drafted Harrison, Barber and picked up free agent Demps. Also drafted Diles, Adibi. Not exactly ignoring. You make good points but this one is kerrrrrplunked.

A 6th and 7th round pick, and signing a street free agent in the middle of the season does not equal fixing a problem. Nice use of the word Kerplunked though.

We had the worst safeties in football when he got here and they are still awful after we made no real effort to upgrade.

At OLB we were terrible then added Diles (ufa) and then this year finally adibi. Adibi marks the first time we have spent a resource at either of these positions since signing (foolishly) morlon greenwood years ago. And the guy has barely gotten on the field. When we start getting some talent in these spots our ability to blitz the QB will improve. Kind of like when we got talent at QB we could throw the ball, talent at RB and we could run it, etc...

If we get talent at those spots and still can't blitz I will blame Richard Smith for it. Until then I will blame him for the many problems that are his fault.

[nero THE zero]

Diles was a 7th round draft choice, FTR

[KJ3]

A 6th and 7th round pick, and signing a street free agent in the middle of the season does not equal fixing a problem. Nice use of the word Kerplunked though.

We had the worst safeties in football when he got here and they are still awful after we made no real effort to upgrade.
...

it was a 5th (Harrison) and a 6th (Barber) and the street free agent who was clearly an immediate upgrade as he hasn't left the starting spot since he got it. i'm not saying he's great, i'm saying he's exactly what you won't recognize: an upgrade at S.

just wondering, what exactly equals effort to you?

[NBT]

Look how long we picked on C.C. Brown for 4 years, and then when he was finally starting to show some promise at the position, he got hurt. Same more or less, could have been said for Glenn Earl. Harrison is starting for the first time, and while Demps has been a pro, this is only the second year for him in our system. Barber, of course, has yet to see the field. My point is we can't seem to find any stability at our safety positions. That being said, they need to start coming on and doing more for us to succeed this year, if we are going to.

[papabear]

Look how long we picked on C.C. Brown for 4 years, and then when he was finally starting to show some promise at the position, he got hurt. Same more or less, could have been said for Glenn Earl. Harrison is starting for the first time, and while Demps has been a pro, this is only the second year for him in our system. Barber, of course, has yet to see the field. My point is we can't seem to find any stability at our safety positions. That being said, they need to start coming on and doing more for us to succeed this year, if we are going to.

The best way to have stability at a position is to get someone good to play there.

[barrett]

it was a 5th (Harrison) and a 6th (Barber) and the street free agent who was clearly an immediate upgrade as he hasn't left the starting spot since he got it. i'm not saying he's great, i'm saying he's exactly what you won't recognize: an upgrade at S.

just wondering, what exactly equals effort to you?

Lets make it easy. Yes or No. Does anyone think we have good NFL safeties? Does anyone think we have good NFL OLBs?

[papabear]

Lets make it easy. Yes or No. Does anyone think we have good NFL safeties? Does anyone think we have good NFL OLBs?

I don't think anyone does, especially at Safety. Look at it this way though...any upgrade at Safety probably comes at the cost of another upgrade (or at least a shot at an upgrade) for another position. It wasn't like Smith only had two holes to fill when he got here.

[Carson]

I don't think anyone does, especially at Safety. Look at it this way though...any upgrade at Safety probably comes at the cost of another upgrade (or at least a shot at an upgrade) for another position. It wasn't like Smith only had two holes to fill when he got here.

So true, when you spend a pick on a DB then you neglect the LB or DE spot. To answer another question, I think we do have a quality OLB. He's #59, and he's playing out of position. It still burns me that we passed up on Patrick Willis. I hate to give up on Amobi, and I won't since he's still the youngest player in the NFL, but can you imagine how much better our defense would be if they'd selected Willis instead of Okoye? Putting Pat Willis at MLB, and moving Demeco back to his natural positon (OLB) would really have put this defense in a better position to succeed. Ryans was named SEC Defensive Player of the Year at OLB. He's a natural on the outside using his instincts to make plays. Now, he's doing a valiant job eating blocks and stuffing the run, but it will shorten his career long term. Maybe Okoye turns into a great player - I certainly hope so, but Willis could've made this team better. It's personnel decisions like this that I hope become a thing of the past.

[barrett]

I don't think anyone does, especially at Safety. Look at it this way though...any upgrade at Safety probably comes at the cost of another upgrade (or at least a shot at an upgrade) for another position. It wasn't like Smith only had two holes to fill when he got here.

Read my posts. I am glad we prioritized as we did. I think Rick Smith is doing a good job. But I can also see he has clearly not gotten around to S and OLB yet because he has had bigger concerns (everything else). This is why I won't blame Richard Smith (yet) for why we can't blitz well (I do blame him for everything else on the defense though).

[coloradodude]

barrett,

Not to pick on you but you need to remember that when Smith took over, the Texans had been run into the ground by one Charles Nelson Casserly. Our beloved franchise was in serious salary cap trouble.

Now combine that with the absolute FACT that Casserly had staffed our team with bad players, many of which couldn't find employment on other teams once cut. So because of the need to replace the personnel AND being in salary cap trouble, Smith has been in a dilema.

In order to upgrade personnel you need to spend the money. So he had to prioritize by position. As a result, overall, our team is descent in talent right now. We don't have a ton of superstars but, here we go, what would a Jeff Fisher do with our existing defense? Would we be giving up 30 points a game? No way.

A good coach can find a way to make descent players better. A good coach can make very good players go to the playoffs.

And don't give me a hard time about Fisher because I could've used a number of defensive minded coaches or their assitants. He was used to make a point.

[KJ3]

Lets make it easy. Yes or No. Does anyone think we have good NFL safeties? Does anyone think we have good NFL OLBs?
no, but that's missing the point completely. was will demps an upgrade at safety over earl? yes or no? was zac diles an upgrade over danny clark? yes or no?

This is why I won't blame Richard Smith (yet) for why we can't blitz well (I do blame him for everything else on the defense though).
personnel is only part of the problem, yet every year (DC)Smith's personnel has been improved without any evidence of that on the field. besides his no-identity-having, undefined "vanilla" and playing crapshit players instead of young guys with potential we still rank near last in turnovers, yards given up per play and per game, bad at 3rd down stops, etc...if this isn't the same defense as when he started, why do they still play like the same defense? at some point i don't believe personnel is the problem anymore, that point is this year...now.

[barrett]

You guys just aren't listening. I think our defense is Richard Smith's fault. I think he should be fired and have laid it at his feet a half dozen times in this thread and twice as many in others. I also think if given better players at OLB and S he would probably misuse them. HOWEVER, at this point I will not blame him for this particular element of the defense, because there is no talent at these spots.

As for Rick Smith, God bless him. He has done a great (partial) job. And I am sure that with another season or two he will finish the job and complete the roster overhaul we so desperately needed. But obviously OLB and S are the back end of the job to him. Probably because they are two of the least valuable positions in the NFL.

Now you guys on the other hand want to go by the principal that since Richard Smith is at fault for other things he must be at fault for the blitzing. And since Rick Smith did a good job upgrading our overall talent, he automatically made our OLBs and Safeties better. The logic just doesn't lineup. It is actually possible for a guy to be mostly at fault or mostly right.

But if it makes you guys happy, I will say Richard Smith's defense is often out of position, and I will extrapolate it out until Richard Smith is the gunman on the grassy knoll.

[KJ3]

I also think if given better players at OLB and S he would probably misuse them.
like....for instance...he might misuse them in...blitzing? :D

And since Rick Smith did a good job upgrading our overall talent, he automatically made our OLBs and Safeties better.
it wasn't automatic, it took 2 draft picks and a free agent for safety, 2 draft picks for linebacker. speaking of not listening....

look there are 2 major thoughts in this thread as to why this defense can't stop passes, can barely stop the run, can't blitz, can't cover, etc...

1. Richard Smith's scheme and it's effectiveness
2. Rick Smith's overhauling the roster hasn't quite made it around to S, OLB

to 1 i say it's effectiveness ranks about 25th. every year. even with poopooplatterplayers you would think marginal improvements would happen through familiarity but quite contrarily our defense marginally gets worse. look up the numbers. to 2 i agree, a major move hasn't really been made but several small attempts have been made, pretty successfully i would say. you would think marginal improvements would come from marginal personnel improvements but again...the numbers don't lie. thing is, we've actually made attempts at changing personnel with little result so noooowwww let's change the other thing that has sucked on some big ones for 3 years.

what really chaps my hide is that we don't need a top 5 defense to be successful in a post-season manner. we need like...a top 17 or so because our offense is the dynamic side being top 6 or whatever we are now.

[barrett]

like....for instance...he might misuse them in...blitzing? :D

it wasn't automatic, it took 2 draft picks and a free agent for safety, 2 draft picks for linebacker. speaking of not listening....

look there are 2 major thoughts in this thread as to why this defense can't stop passes, can barely stop the run, can't blitz, can't cover, etc...

1. Richard Smith's scheme and it's effectiveness
2. Rick Smith's overhauling the roster hasn't quite made it around to S, OLB

to 1 i say it's effectiveness ranks about 25th. every year. even with poopooplatterplayers you would think marginal improvements would happen through familiarity but quite contrarily our defense marginally gets worse. look up the numbers. to 2 i agree, a major move hasn't really been made but several small attempts have been made, pretty successfully i would say. you would think marginal improvements would come from marginal personnel improvements but again...the numbers don't lie.

Yes. Misuse as in blitzing. That's my point. When he gets the players and uses them wrong, I'll blame him. Until then I'll blame him for what he could be doing now and isn't.

If you think we have been pretty successful in upgrading these positions, you are deceiving yourself. We are awful at OLB and S.

[KJ3]

If you think we have been pretty successful in upgrading these positions, you are deceiving yourself. We are awful at OLB and S.

successful upgrade as in the position is better now than it was. i've never said they are great...and i'm pretty sure i've said they are bad.

[NBT]

As I have said, I think it is too early to judge the safeties we have back there now, because they haven't played together long enough to see how they are going to jell.

[Nconroe]

I am wondering what ya'll call a fair definition of stability.

I am thinking it must be some number of years.

And this might apply to both players and coaches.

And, maybe it's just me, but haven't we been better the last 4-5 games of the past two seasons. wonder why that was and then reverted at the start of the following year.

[NBT]

I think if we don't blame Richard Smith (which I have done long and loudly) we have to lay it at the feet of HC Gary Kubiak. He scripts the way he wants the defense to play and he expects RS to implement it. Take the game against Cincy yesterday. The defense started out a little tentative, but then came on and limited Cincy to two measly field goals inside the red zone. Intensity was evident for the whole game, not just the first half. If we are rounding into a pretty good team, these next few games will show it more than the last 3.

[KJ3]

I think if we don't blame Richard Smith (which I have done long and loudly) we have to lay it at the feet of HC Gary Kubiak. He scripts the way he wants the defense to play and he expects RS to implement it. .
it's one thing to draw out the plans to build a ship, it's another to actually be responsible for nailing in all the planks. i don't know exactly how much kubiak has to do with the defense, defensive calls, personnel and such but i would think as far as who to blame with the defense it's got to be smith.

now, sticking with a coach for too long....that's on kubiak for sure.

[barrett]

it's one thing to draw out the plans to build a ship, it's another to actually be responsible for nailing in all the planks. i don't know exactly how much kubiak has to do with the defense, defensive calls, personnel and such but i would think as far as who to blame with the defense it's got to be smith.

now, sticking with a coach for too long....that's on kubiak for sure.

I disagree. Kubiak was hired to coach the Texans, not the offense. If he is not involved in the Defense it is at his own peril. Bill Bellacik is a defensive coach and does anyone believe he leaves his offense in someone else's hands. If you are the head coach, you coach all 3 phases of the game (unless you are Joe Paterno, and then you sit in the booth alone at halftime while an assistant goes to the locker room and gives the halftime speech and makes the adjustements).

[KJ3]

"involved" is a pretty ambiguous term. i honestly would like to know how much kubiak gets involved with the defense because if he's got 2/3 of the rest of the team to worry about as well i can't imagine his involvement is greater or even on the level with richard smith's.

[NBT]

"gap penetration, containment, coverage, or tackling" - If we could have been doing these things we would be contending for first in our division, IMO. These are the things we are going to have to do to beat Minnesota, our next opponent.

[cadams]

"gap penetration, containment, coverage, or tackling" - If we could have been doing these things we would be contending for first in our division, IMO. These are the things we are going to have to do to beat Minnesota, our next opponent.

there is no question about that. they texans are 2 plays away from a 5-2 record.

1. 4th and 8 against jax at the end of the game when they let gerrard run for 9 yards.

and

2. the "sage play"


ahh, to dream. unfortunately it doesn't matter since they didnt make either, but man it is frustrating to think what could have been

[Nconroe]

well, 1 is defense and 2 is offense, so defense a little better , we're 4-3 and considered in top 15 power ranking. anyways, if we start doing the "gap penetration, containment, coverage, or tackling" do we start to give credit for good coaching. I think it is more to do with changing players, young players than coaching, but I might change my mind by end of year if it isn't showing improvement by then.

[NBT]

I wish, but we are only 3-4, hoping for 4-4 to even the slate.