Texans Prefer Mahomes, Watson?

[HPF Bob]

According to USA Today, the Texans did not attend the pro days of any of the top quarterbacks but held private workouts with Clemson QB Deshaun Watson and Texas Tech QB Patrick Mahomes with comments after about how O'Brien is totally impressed with Mahomes.

A smokescreen? Maybe. Only because O'Brien allegedly prefers tall drop-back passers and, of the top 5 quarterbacks, these are the two you'd least likely classify as tall (both are 6-2) drop-back passers. Kizer and Webb are both 6-5, Trubisky is also 6-2. Another key factor is that, at #25, there may only be one or two still left on the board to choose from.

Notre Dame coach Brian Kelly recently said Kizer would have benefitted from another year in school. He seems to be falling in mocks the most with Mahomes and Webb climbing steadily. But who knows?

[Nconroe]

I read that as well.

I think Smith and OBrien love the smoke screen.

But who knows how things will develop in about 10 more days.

[Joshua]

A smokescreen? Maybe. Only because O'Brien allegedly prefers tall drop-back passers and, of the top 5 quarterbacks, these are the two you'd least likely classify as tall (both are 6-2) drop-back passers. Kizer and Webb are both 6-5, Trubisky is also 6-2. Another key factor is that, at #25, there may only be one or two still left on the board to choose from.

Serious question, is there a coach in the NFL that doesn't prefer tall, drop back QBs? Don't you think Carroll probably preferred a tall, drop back passer when he turned in the card to draft Russell Wilson? Seems like these are universal qualities that all coaches prefer and unless there is some indication that O'Brien literally takes guys off the board unless they possess them, not sure this tells us much.

[nunusguy]

Wonder if there's any chance the Texans would make a really big move, like what the Eagles did recently to move up in the Draft to take QB Carson Wentz, by bundling multiple picks including this year and next years first round pick or maybe including a front line player in a trade like Mercilus or Hopkins ?
Of course that would probably be highly unlikely but if they really want one of these two QBs it might be the only path they 've got.

[barrett]

According to USA Today, the Texans did not attend the pro days of any of the top quarterbacks but held private workouts with Clemson QB Deshaun Watson and Texas Tech QB Patrick Mahomes with comments after about how O'Brien is totally impressed with Mahomes.

A smokescreen? Maybe. Only because O'Brien allegedly prefers tall drop-back passers and, of the top 5 quarterbacks, these are the two you'd least likely classify as tall (both are 6-2) drop-back passers. Kizer and Webb are both 6-5, Trubisky is also 6-2. Another key factor is that, at #25, there may only be one or two still left on the board to choose from.

Notre Dame coach Brian Kelly recently said Kizer would have benefitted from another year in school. He seems to be falling in mocks the most with Mahomes and Webb climbing steadily. But who knows?

We signed our last QB without the coach ever meeting him so...

[HPF Bob]

We signed our last QB without the coach ever meeting him so...

Perhaps the only reason O'Brien didn't walk last winter was an ultimatum to get rid of Osweiler and give him his choice of QBs with their first pick in this draft.

Regardless, whomever the Texans pick will be "who we wanted all along" but I have the least confidence in Mahomes out of any of them. Unless the thinking is he'll be running for his life all year behind our shitty offensive line so we need someone who is used to throwing on the run.

[Nconroe]

Here is a good writeup on Mahomes rising in draft. Very accurate throws and 78 yards in the air ain't bad.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/nfl/2017/4/17/15326962/2017-nfl-draft-quarterback-patrick-mahomes-stock-rising-texans-cardinals

[Warren]

I don’t buy the report about O’Brien being in love with Mahomes. Scouting reports consistently describe Mahomes as a gunslinger who makes some terrible decisions and is at his best when he’s winging it rather than functioning within the system. O’Brien seems to want a guy who is going to execute the offense and who understands the value of taking what’s there and not forcing something. While O’Brien may recognize Mahomes’ talent and potential I’d think he also see him as someone who’s going to need a lot of reining in and work to break his bad habits, seemingly more than the typical rookie.

[Arky]

Wonder if there's any chance the Texans would make a really big move, like what the Eagles did recently to move up in the Draft to take QB Carson Wentz, by bundling multiple picks including this year and next years first round pick or maybe including a front line player in a trade like Mercilus or Hopkins ?
Of course that would probably be highly unlikely but if they really want one of these two QBs it might be the only path they 've got.

The NY Jets, Cleveland and Arizona are the teams some are projecting to go after a QB within the first 13 picks. So, it's possible Mahomes/Trubisky/Watson are all gone after Arizona picks at #13.

To work up a deal with say, #11 New Orleans would be very costly and I think, too costly. But, you never know....

I think Savage starts the season, anyway, so development of the new guy (whomever that is) is gonna happen. If the Texans move up, then there will be added (fan) pressure to see what the new guy looks like if Savage struggles....

[barrett]

I don’t buy the report about O’Brien being in love with Mahomes. Scouting reports consistently describe Mahomes as a gunslinger who makes some terrible decisions and is at his best when he’s winging it rather than functioning within the system. O’Brien seems to want a guy who is going to execute the offense and who understands the value of taking what’s there and not forcing something. While O’Brien may recognize Mahomes’ talent and potential I’d think he also see him as someone who’s going to need a lot of reining in and work to break his bad habits, seemingly more than the typical rookie.

It's almost like the guys writing articles have no idea what's going on. The amount of draft coverage cracks me up. More is written on the draft than on the super bowl, and most of it fails to rise above the level of "fan in front of computer with an opinion". We know every GM in the league is currently lying to all of their media contacts and yet we still publish stories because there is such a market to read anything that gets published.

[Arky]

Perhaps the only reason O'Brien didn't walk last winter was an ultimatum to get rid of Osweiler and give him his choice of QBs with their first pick in this draft.



I've heard and read some speculation on that and what you say may not be far from the truth. I think OB was initially on board with Oz but eventually realized he (Oz) just wasn't that good. That, plus the fact he was unhappy he had to release his buddy (Godsey) led to him leveraging the scuttlebutt that several teams were interested in him at the time.

IMO, OB does have "the look" of a head coach. If you were making a Hollywood movie about football, he'd be the guy you'd choose as the head coach of Team A. But, his offense has gone downhill every year since he's got here. The offense has got to show improvement next year or I'd consider it no great shakes if he walked....

[Blitzwood]

I really like the Mahommes kid, more than the others in the first. His dad was an MLB pitcher for a decade, plus his accuracy has been the most impressive out of the bunch. Trubisky , Watson, and Kizer finish my top 4. I have Webb behind Kaaya and Peterman, plus I think Webb is more of a gunslinger than all the others.

My Blackhorse is the Kelly kid out of Old Miss, I would take a flier on him in the 5th or 6th. I know he can be a knucklehead at times and hopefully he's grown up now, maybe if given the chance he could be a good signal caller like his uncle. I think he'd make a nice backup, possibly even a nice trade option if he stays out of trouble.

[chuck]

It was my impression that Osweiler's agent would not let him meet with the Texans because if the team decided they didn't like him, say, if the head coach decided he was a huge pussy, they would lose their leverage. So while I do believe that the FO forced BO on BOB, I do not see anything too spectacularly off about BOB's not talking to him ahead of time. A decent organization would obviously tell the agent to suck it, but what are you going to do?

Mahomes may end up being the Russell Wilson of this draft but it would shock me if BOB likes anything he sees. He looks nothing like an NFL quarterback. Tons of arms strength, decent accuracy in shorts, horrible footwork, takes off running at the first opportunity, on and on. I'm betting on Webb or Peterman. I can't see Watson, Kizer or Trubisky around at 25, and I can't see the Texans giving up picks to move up.

I'm also high on Kelly. (Sorry. I just saw what I did. Not on purpose, I promise.) I would Henson him in the later rounds because he obviously has the talent to play the game, unlike a lot of the guys you're drafting 6 or 7.

[nunusguy]

I certainly have no idea what the Texans are gonna do in this Draft but when it comes to QBs Davis Webb does seem more like the kind of guy O'Brien would prefer.
But given that defensive players represent the best part of this Draft they just might draft a defensive back or LB in the first round and wait to take a QB and some offensive tackle help with their second & mid-round picks.

[HPF Bob]

I would be fine taking something else in the first round or even trading back if I was sure Webb would be available in the second. Since his stock has risen, I think the Texans would need to trade up in the second to get Webb before #57. So if that's the guy the Texans really want, they probably should draft him in the first and not take any chances.

[chuck]

I'm beginning to think two things, one is that Kaaya might be the best fit and if so you could wait on him. Two is that BOB needs to win now and given that he will want to draft someone at 25 that can contribute right away and that won't be a quarterback.

[popanot]

Mahomes in RD1 scares the crap out of me. I'd almost rather take OL and see who's there in RD2. Move up if necessary. I honestly don't see much difference between Mahomes and Kizer and I think Kizer or Davis will be there around our RD2 pick. I'd take Chad Kelly in RD 6 or 7.

[HPF Bob]

CBS Sports' six-reporter mocks have three taking Davis Webb in Round 1 then one each for Watson, Bolles and Lamp. Just sayin'.

[Warren]

FWIW, I heard an interview with Mahomes and in response to a question about his gunslinger reputation he basically said that's how you have to play to have a chance in those Big 12 shootouts and he understands the NFL is a different game.

The thing about Kelly is that he's had repeated incidents of knuckleheadedness, rather than a lapse or two in judgment. I get the idea of taking a flyer on him late based on talent, but you have to wonder if he hasn't shown by now that he is who he is and he's not going to turn it around.

I also heard an interview with former Eagles and Browns personnel guy Joe Banner who said that they've done studies of what traits in a QB most often lead to NFL success and the top three are accuracy, intelligence, and leadership. That's consistent with what Keith pointed out O'Brien has said was important (http://www.inthebullseye.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2069) and I know I've heard of at least one similar study by a team where they found that accuracy, intelligence, and toughness were most important.

[bikerack]

The buzz inside NRG today is that if Watson makes it past Arizona at 13, the Texans will start trying to move up to get him.

[barrett]

The buzz inside NRG today is that if Watson makes it past Arizona at 13, the Texans will start trying to move up to get him.

That's meaningless 'buzz'. Anything coming out to the media tells other teams exactly what they need to do to get/stay in front of the Texans. No way do the Texans leak that unless it's misinformation.

[bikerack]

That's meaningless 'buzz'. Anything coming out to the media tells other teams exactly what they need to do to get/stay in front of the Texans. No way do the Texans leak that unless it's misinformation.

It wasn't released to the media. I have a friend who works for the team...during draft season, he is involved in breaking down game tape, setting up the draft room, etc. He won't tell me everything but he will give me bits and pieces from time to time.

My previous post was his understanding of what is going on inside the org from conversations he was involved with today. Take it or leave it...was just passing on what I had heard. No offense to this board, but if it was more popular, I wouldn't have shared it.

[barrett]

It wasn't released to the media. I have a friend who works for the team...during draft season, he is involved in breaking down game tape, setting up the draft room, etc. He won't tell me everything but he will give me bits and pieces from time to time.

My previous post was his understanding of what is going on inside the org from conversations he was involved with today. Take it or leave it...was just passing on what I had heard. No offense to this board, but if it was more popular, I wouldn't have shared it.

That kind of makes sense, especially if it was just talk around the office.

I am sure they have some spots in mind for when certain things become explorable.

[chuck]

It wasn't released to the media. I have a friend who works for the team...during draft season, he is involved in breaking down game tape, setting up the draft room, etc. He won't tell me everything but he will give me bits and pieces from time to time.

My previous post was his understanding of what is going on inside the org from conversations he was involved with today. Take it or leave it...was just passing on what I had heard. No offense to this board, but if it was more popular, I wouldn't have shared it.

Keep it coming, please, thanks.

[HPF Bob]

The nice thing is that if Bikerack shares it here and it comes true, he has credibility and a time stamp for documentation. If he's wrong, hardly anyone but us sees it.

Still, even within the organization, whisper campaigns may be used to find out who potential "leakers" are for the purpose of getting rid of them. So be careful what you circulate.

[painekiller]

It wasn't released to the media. I have a friend who works for the team...during draft season, he is involved in breaking down game tape, setting up the draft room, etc. He won't tell me everything but he will give me bits and pieces from time to time.

My previous post was his understanding of what is going on inside the org from conversations he was involved with today. Take it or leave it...was just passing on what I had heard. No offense to this board, but if it was more popular, I wouldn't have shared it.

Thank you for sharing.

And Bob, just because the team does not complete a trade up does not mean that they did not try to trade up. Remember it takes two teams and both teams have to agree on the price. So Bikerack's credibility should not be tied to a completed trade only. I for one appreciate having his new blood on this site.

[Keith]

No offense to this board, but if it was more popular, I wouldn't have shared it.
None taken. I do nothing to promote this board or site.

Thanks for sharing.

[barrett]

None taken. I do nothing to promote this board or site.

Thanks for sharing.

I think the board would be a little better if it was slightly more active (maybe double the tiny number of posters we have). I think it'd be far worse if it was super active. Not because other boards have worse posters, but because more means more problems, more fights, more off topic, more need for moderation, more pointless posturing from internet tough guys, etc... I am sure if it was more guys just like us it'd be terrible.

Basically I'm saying I love this board because it's small and more like talking sports around the water cooler then talking sports on the giant anonymous internet.

[Nconroe]

Watson about only QB coming out this year with a winning record , be great if we get him.

[chuck]

I too greatly prefer a smaller group of guys to a clutchfans style fkwitfest. But I wouldn't mind maybe doubling the group of active posters, if only because sometimes it feels like we're the most tenurd guys at the nursing home, you know, sitting around in our cardigans telling each other the same story for the twenty fifth time.

Buford wouldn't have a cardigan, of course. He'd probably have an oversized Broncos sweatshirt. And white Reeboks. With velcro. Hell, that's most likely how he's dressed right now.

Anyway, I welcome the new posters.

[Keith]

It doesn't help that the message board is a relic of the '90s. We're mostly middle aged dudes here, a sort of 12 angry men for the 21st century. Not a high growth demo.

To wit, this is how I envision some posts on our board...
gaTCLIFcX5E

#ItB #TellAfriend

[chuck]

#ItB #TellAfriend

#Don'tHaveAnyFriendsThat'sWhyI'mHere

#YouGuysAREMyFriends

[HPF Bob]

And Bob, just because the team does not complete a trade up does not mean that they did not try to trade up. Remember it takes two teams and both teams have to agree on the price. So Bikerack's credibility should not be tied to a completed trade only. I for one appreciate having his new blood on this site.

I appreciate his comments too and in no way meant to imply that he was not credible if the trade does not develop.

[HPF Bob]

#Don'tHaveAnyFriendsThat'sWhyI'mHere

#YouGuysAREMyFriends

#DudeMessageHimPrivately :p

[Keith]

The buzz inside NRG today is that if Watson makes it past Arizona at 13, the Texans will start trying to move up to get him.

Tweet this morning:
Ian Rapoport‏ @RapSheet
If Deshaun Watson is there in late 1, keep an eye on the #Texans. His visit was overwhelmingly positive for all. He loved it, team did, too.
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/857269155300560903

[painekiller]

So when did Ian become a member of our board?

[chuck]

I'm really amazed that BOB likes him. I don't doubt the information, it just surprises me because Watson and Mahomes, the other quarterback BOB is supposed to be in love with, could not be farther from what I understand BOB's ideal quarterback to be.

Maybe I misunderstand BOB then. If a quarterback is accurate and intelligent maybe he doesn't care if a guy is less like Tom Brady and more like Fran Tarkenton or Steve McNair.

But if so, then why is he hand-picking guys like Fitz, Hoyer, Mallett and Savage?

[Arky]

I wouldn't mind a few more members. I think more people would keep the daily comments going. I like to click in and get caught up on the latest but this place sometimes goes for days with no comments. And then sometimes, there's just not a lot to yak about.

Some of the larger Texan boards (to me, anyway) are polluted and diluted. A lot of blah-blah-blah. I don't Facebook, Tweet or smart phone (get off my lawn) and have always preferred the message board format. Still think it's the best way for a group to discuss a particular topic..

[Arky]

....

But if so, then why is he hand-picking guys like Fitz, Hoyer, Mallett and Savage?

IMHO, OB is not quite the QB guru he is portrayed as. Wasn't he a DE for Brown back in his playing days? He gets into coaching and somehow works his way up to QB coach of the New England Patriots "coaching" Tom Brady. He goes from defense to offense (round peg, square hole) and it's a role an up-and-coming coach would gladly accept, no? Quite the pelt on the wall....

I think coaching is quite a bit like many other blue collar type jobs. Whether you're an electrician, pipe-fitter, car salesman, whatever, you'll make a lot of mistakes as you learn your trade. I made some doozies learning a couple of trades and it does take several years before one becomes competent - competent enough to fix mistakes on the fly and do the job right in a reasonable amount of time. Right now, I believe OB is still learning on the job and I think he's at a point where he should be turning the corner.....

[popanot]

... it just surprises me because Watson and Mahomes, the other quarterback BOB is supposed to be in love with, could not be farther from what I understand BOB's ideal quarterback to be.I can't figure out what BOB wants in a QB other than 'good'. He's had tall ones, short ones, young ones, old ones, smart ones, dumb ones, big-arm ones, noodle-arm ones... The common denominator in all is that none have been good. Other than good and/or non-drive killer, I can't figure out what his type of QB is.

[barrett]

I'm really amazed that BOB likes him. I don't doubt the information, it just surprises me because Watson and Mahomes, the other quarterback BOB is supposed to be in love with, could not be farther from what I understand BOB's ideal quarterback to be.

Maybe I misunderstand BOB then. If a quarterback is accurate and intelligent maybe he doesn't care if a guy is less like Tom Brady and more like Fran Tarkenton or Steve McNair.

But if so, then why is he hand-picking guys like Fitz, Hoyer, Mallett and Savage?

Fitz is actually pretty mobile and definitely a risk taker. And he's not particularly accurate.

Hoyer is the only guy on your list that could be described as smart and accurate, and he's the homeless man's version of smart and accurate.

I don't think anything O'Brien has done at QB for the Texans gives any indicator of what he likes. I think he has kicked QB down the road for his whole career here and gone with whatever was easily available (or what his GM gave him last year). I think his disregard of the QB position gives more reason to question his QB cred than any performance from the journeymen he's started.

[Blitzwood]

So when did Ian become a member of our board?

:D:D

On a serious note, I strongly believe we need a somewhat mobile QB with this O-line, otherwise there's a good chance he'll be on the bench after a few games. And Watson is easily the most battle tested and accomplished QB of this draft. I also don't think BOB, as others have mentioned, is the QB guru some have made him out to be, or even the best game planner, but he's not bad either.

So because of that, I think him very likely wanting the QB with the most big game/championship experience is smart on his part. I thought our defense gave New England a good run for their money last year. And now with the possibility of Watson at the helm, and given his championship experience, I don't think the stage would be too big for him compared to all our other current options, FA or in the draft.

That being said, part of me thinks Mahhomes has more upside, but if BOB is in win now mode, Watson is the obvious smart selection here. Too many coaches have been fired over potential in QB's.

[Warren]

Some pretty good scouting reports on the QBs for my fellow codgers:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/mcginn/2017/04/22/ranking-nfl-draft-prospects-quarterbacks/100736988/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2017/04/24/nfl-draft-quarterback-qb-rankings-scouts-deshaun-watson-mitchell-trubisky-deshone-kizer/100817778/

[bikerack]

The latest is they don't think Watson will last to the point where they are willing/able to trade up to.

[chuck]

The latest is they don't think Watson will last to the point where they are willing/able to trade up to.

That's weird because I think it's Mahomes that will be gone (along with Trubisky) and that Watson may very well stick around for a while.

[Keith]

Sometimes I like to sit back and think...

I think this is a rather unpredictable first round.

I think that unpredictability will result in trades where teams will move up to get their guy.

I think the QBs will generally go higher than expected.

I think if the Texans love a guy, they ought to be talking again to the Browns, this time to move up to #12.

I think the Browns are bad at making football decisions, worse than the Texans.

I think if Rick Smith believes he can just sit at 25 and pick a QB, he's going to find a team move up to 24 and take his man.

[chuck]

I think if the Texans love a guy, they ought to be talking again to the Browns, this time to move up to #12.

That would require the Texans taking Brock back so no thanks.

[Arky]

Sometimes I like to sit back and think...

I think this is a rather unpredictable first round.

I think that unpredictability will result in trades where teams will move up to get their guy.

I think the QBs will generally go higher than expected.

I think if the Texans love a guy, they ought to be talking again to the Browns, this time to move up to #12.

I think the Browns are bad at making football decisions, worse than the Texans.

I think if Rick Smith believes he can just sit at 25 and pick a QB, he's going to find a team move up to 24 and take his man.

Good thinkin'! :p

But wouldn't it be just like the Texans to take neither QB nor Tackle with their first pick?

[nunusguy]

That's weird because I think it's Mahomes that will be gone (along with Trubisky) and that Watson may very well stick around for a while.

Right that's what I'm seeing in these mocks (not that any of them are necessarily reliable), which is of the big 3 they are drafted in this order: Truisby, MaHomes, and then Watson. Arizona is drafting at #13 and supposedly their HC continues to have a strong interest in drafting MaHomes to develop as the successor to Carson Palmer.
And this Davis Webb looks to be the real dark horse in the QB group but he still figures to be the fourth QB drafted.

[nunusguy]

But wouldn't it be just like the Texans to take neither QB nor Tackle with their first pick?

I see that as a distinct possibility if
(1) the QB they really cherish is off of their Board,
and (2) and it's such an extremely weak OT class many say there really are not any legit 1st round tackles in this years Draft,
and (3) but it' such a strong draft for defensive backs and with Bouye leaving that's now a bigger priority to us.