Official Texans vs. Patriots Game Thread, 12/1/2013

[WMH]

The biggest question I have surrounding this game, will Belicheat pull his starters entering the 4th Qtr?

This is going to be bad. Real bad. Case will get abused, and its not going to be pretty.

[nunusguy]

NE is "only" 'bout a 8-9 fav at this point, due no doubt to this being a classic "trap game" for the Pats as they are bound to be flat, both physically and emotionally, after their big 5 quarter, OT win over Denver this past weekend, and of course it's a road game in a dome-stadium over the big ThanksGiving weekend. If the Texans happen to jump off to an early lead, they might make it an entertaining, even a competitive game.
BTW, former Texans 6th round pick Chris Jones and now starting NE DT has 5 sacks this year. Between Jones, Griffin, & Quessenberry, how is it that the Texans' 6th round picks have turned out so much better than their third round picks this year ?

[Arky]

TV = CBS (channel 11 local), noon, Sunday

Announcers (http://506sports.com/nfl.php?yr=2013&wk=13) = Greg Gumbel, Dan Dierdorf

The line (http://www.madduxsports.com/nfl-odds.php) = Pats by 7.5 to 9

[HPF Bob]

Say goodbye to Dierdorf. He's retiring after the season.

(Easy way to get on TV if you have first level seats. Make a "Happy Retirement, Dan Dierdorf" sign with a CBS eye on it and get the attention of one of their sideline cameramen)

[nunusguy]

Not sure why but getting excited about tomorrows game, probably because Brady and the Pats are coming to town. I can't help but think the Texans
would salvage some personal pride for a lost season if they could upset Brady, so I expect a max effort from them. Also reports are Kubiak is back on the sidelines so you know he's pumped - better keep the Doc nearby.

[Nconroe]

Roof is open. Hoping for a better Case Keenum and a good pass rush today.

Almost time to start the game.

Maybe OD is back and if running game gets going would help.

Protect the ball and and see what happens.

Kubiak is on the sideline.

[Arky]

Texans win the toss and will receive.

Nice run back by Martin! Brings it back to the Texan 44. Texans ball.

------------------------------

Tate for 6.

Tate gets 4 and a first down. Ball at the Patriots 46.

DJ trips and loses 1. 2nd and 11 coming up.

Bootleg pass to Graham goes for 8. 3rd and 3 coming up.

Dang, short pass to DJ over his head, inc. Texans to punt.

Edelman fair catches the punt at the Patriot 7 yard line. Pats ball.

[Nconroe]

Sure would have been nice to complete short pass to wide open DJ. Had time.

[BigBull]

Nice series by the defense.

[Arky]

Pass to Edelman gets 3.

Bolden gets 2. 3rd and 5 coming up.

Brady's deep pass sails, inc. Pats must punt.

Martin brings the punt back to the Texan 48. Texan's ball.

[Nconroe]

Yeah, with good opening KR by Matin and good defense has led to good fiield position.

Two good passes to Andre.

[Arky]

10:48 left in the 1st quarter.

Tate for 2. 2nd and 8 coming up.

Pass to AJ over the middle goes for about 29. Ball at the Pats 21.

Short pass to AJ goes for nice gainer to the 8 yard line. 1st and goal.

Short pass to Graham off his hands, inc. 2nd and goal coming up.

Tate punches it in! 8 yard rushing TD!

Texans 7, Patriots 0

8:44 left in the 1st quarter.

[Nconroe]

Nice TD run by Tate. Maybe his ribs are better.

Kareem Jackson back at CB after out two games.

[Arky]

Pats brings the ensuing kickoff back to their 24. Pats ball.

-------------------------------

Pass to Edelman off his hands, inc. 2nd and 10 coming up.

Bolden for no gain. 3rd and 10 coming up.

Pass to Edelman over the middle goes for about 20 and the 1st down.

Blount runs for 7.

Bolden for no gain or loss of 1. Brings up 3rd and 3.

Brady's pass INT'ed by JJo! Returns it all the way to the Patriot 32! Texans ball!

[BigBull]

Great int by JJo.

[Arky]

Pass to AJ over the middle, almost INT'ed, almost caught by AJ but flags down.... ball was inc.... Offensive PI on Graham makes it 1st and 20 coming up.

Tate for 5. 2nd and 15 coming up.

Keenum's pass over the middle off Graham's hands inc. 3rd and 15 coming up.

Pass to Graham gets about 12. Texans to go for the FG on 4th and 3.

Bullock's 43-yarder is good.

Texans 10, Patriots 0

4:10 left in the 1st quarter.

[Nconroe]

Sure nice to see Bullock starting to nail his FG.

[BigBull]

I know I should be happy with the Texans being up 10-0, but with the field position they've had they should be up 21-0. I think this will come back to haunt them.

[Arky]

Pats bring the ensuing kickoff all the way back to their 45 yard line. Pats ball.

------------------------------

Pass to Gronk gets 6. 2nd and 4 coming up.

Vereen gets about 8 and a 1st down.

Pass to Thompkins goes to the Texan 25.

Brady's short pass thrown inc. 2nd and 10 coming up.

Vereen for 2 or 3. Brings up 3rd and 8.

Brady has all day and hits Gronk over the middle for the TD.

Texans 10, Patriots 7

1:25 left in the 1st quarter.

[Nconroe]

Our 4 man rush sure didn't get close on Bradys TD throw.

[Arky]

Martin downs the ensuing kickoff in the endzone, touchback. Texans ball at their 20.

-----------------------------

Tate for 3.

Pass to AJ gets 9 and the 1st down.

Tate for 4. 2nd and 6 coming up.

End of the 1st quarter.

[Arky]

On 2nd and 6, pass is tipped and sails inc. 3rd and 6 coming up.

Pass to Hopkins goes to the Texan 46 and a 1st down.

Tate for almost 4. 2nd and 6 coming up.

Tate for 1. 3rd and 5 coming up.

Pass to Martin goes all the way to the Pats 22! 1st down.

Keenum sacked for loss of 8. 2nd and 18 coming up.

Tate for 3. Brings up 3rd and 15.

Keenum hit as he throws, the ball floats and is INT'ed by the Pats. Pats ball at their 20.

[BigBull]

That int by Keenum was a horrible throw. Each week I realize more and more how sad the qb position is on the Texans.

[Nconroe]

The problem. Was Keenum held on to the ball to long and got hit while throwing.

Come on Texans and defense. Trying to think positive.

I thought overall Keenum doing good today.

Seems inadvertent head butt by Reed on Brady, bad luck because had em stopped.

[Arky]

Pass to Edelman gets 7.

Blount rushes for about 8 and a first down.

Blount for 8 more. Ball at the Pats 43. 2nd and 2 coming up.

Blount for 1. 3rd and 1 coming up.

Develin gets 3 and the 1st down.

Brady's deep pass to Edelman is slightly off the mark and inc. 2nd and 10 coming up.

Screen to Vereen gets 2. 3rd and 8 coming up.

Pass to Gronk over the middle broken up inc but flag on B Reed for roughing the passer. Places the ball at the Texan 36., 1st down.

Blount for 4.

Vereen for 1. 3rd and 5 coming up.

Brady is sacked! Pats to go for the FG with 5:17 left in the half.

Gostkowski's 55-yarder is off to the right, no good. Texans takeover on downs at their 45.

[BigBull]

I love the way D. Johnson is running the ball today.

[Nconroe]

Tate seems ankle injured but DJ running hard. Nice drive so far.

[Arky]

Tate for no gain.

Screen to DJ gets 12. 1st down at the Pats 43.

DJ for 5. 2nd and 5 coming up.

DJ squirts to the Pats 29 yard line and the 1st down.

Pass to AJ gets 9. 2nd and 1 coming up at the Pats 20.

2 minute warning.

[Arky]

On 2nd and 1, Keenum is pressured and throws inc to Graham. 3rd and 1 coming up.

Tate runs it in! 20 yards!

Texans 17, Patriots 7

1:47 left in the half.

[BigBull]

Man, Tate just ran that in for a td untouched.

[Nconroe]

Boy nice OL blocking and strong run for TD by Tate. Very nice. Ok, team, don't slack up now.

[Keith]

Ben Jones is my new fave Texan. Doing good and just having a blast out there.

[Arky]

Pats bring the ensuing kickoff back to their 15 yard line. Pats ball. 1:40 left in the half.

------------------------------------

Screen to Amendola gets 7.

Pass to Boyce gets about 4 or 5 and the 1st down.

Pass to Gronk goes 15 yards to the Pats 43 for a first down. Mercilus injured on the play. Injury timeout.

Pass to Vereen gets small gain of 6, Pats use a timeout. 2nd and 4 coming up.

Brady pressured by Watt throws inc. 3rd and 4 coming up with 42 seconds left in the half.

Pass to Gronk broken up by Pleasant, inc. Pat to punt.

Punt goes into the endzone, touchback. Texans ball at their 20 with 28 seconds left in the half.

[Arky]

Texans kneeling it.

Halftime.

Texans 17, Patriots 7

[HPF Bob]

Kubiak only knows one play for third-and-1 and that's a halfback run behind the left tackle. The rest of the NFL has clearly figured this out and stuffs it. Everyone but the genius, Belichick, apparently who lets Tate walk in.

Now the NFL's worst second-half team tries to protect a lead against the NFL's best second-half team. We're doomed.

[BigBull]

Will the Texans be able to keep up the good play in the second half or will they continue to suck like the passed 9 games?

[chuck]

We always complain about the lack of adjustments that the Texans make at halftime. Well, I'm not sure I want any offensive adjustments. Run the mfing ball until those assholes demonstrate that they're interested in stopping it.

But the second half is going to be fascinating.

[Arky]

Halftime stats:

Passing: Keenum 9/15, 127 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT

Rushing: Tate 12/61, DJ 3/13

Receiving: AJ 4/59, Graham 2/19, K Martin, 1/27, DJ 1/11, Hopkins 1/11

Tackles: Swearinger 4, Mays/Mercilus 3 each, JJo/KJ/Sharpton/Watt/Pleasant 2 each

Time of possession: Texans 14:54, Pats 14:38 (?)

Total yards: Texans 192, Pats 146

1st downs: Texans 10, Pats 9

3rd down efficiency: Texans 3/6, Pats 3/7

Red zone: Texans 1/1, Pats 0/0

Penalties: Texans 2/25, Pats 0/0

Turnovers: Texans 1, Pats 1

[Arky]

Patriots bring the 2nd half kickoff back to their 22. Patriots ball.

------------------------------

Pass to Amendola gets 16.

Vereen caught and loses 1. 2nd and 11 coming up.

Deep pass to Gronk goes all the way to the Texan 13, 1st down.

Short pass to Vereen goes all the way to the 1. 1st and goal.

Develin bounces around and punches it in for the TD.

Texans 17, Patriots 14

12:41 left in the 3rd quarter.

[BigBull]

I think New England made some adjustments on offense during half time. Will this be the start of the Texans second half collapse or will they find a way to win?

[Arky]

Martin downs the ensuing kickoff in the endzone, touchback. Texan's ball at their 20.

---------------------------------

Keenum pressured, throws it away, inc. 2nd and 10 coming up.

Tate for 9. 3rd and 1 coming up.

Patriots use a timeout...

On 3rd and 1, Tate is stopped for no gain. Texans to punt.

Edelman brings the punt back to about the Pats 27. Patriot's ball.

[Nconroe]

Overall, third and short runs to left seem a low percentage at this time. Overall though runs working today. Nice to see Keenum throw ball away rather than holdit too long. Brady and Pats passing game clicking now.

[Arky]

Vereen for 3.

Pass to Edelman gets about 9 and the 1st down. Mays injured on the play. Injury timeout. Ball at the Patriot 39. 10:31 left in the 3rd quarter.

Pass to Amendola gets 17.

Deep pass to Edelman goes all the way to the Texan 19, 1st down.

Brady's pass too hot to handle, inc. 2nd and 10 coming up.

Flat pass to Edelman goes for 10 and the 1st down. 1st and goal at the 9.

Short pass to Vereen wide open goes for the TD. 9 yards.

Patriots 21, Texans 17

8:06 left in the 3rd quarter.

[Nconroe]

Well, so much for the lead. Can we get a second half score please.

[chuck]

Stay with the run you idiot palm licker.

[nunusguy]

Brady is just making it look easy, real easy right now. And I think this is our best defense with the exception of Cushing.

[Arky]

Martin brings the ensuing kickoff back to the Texan 19. Texan's ball.

--------------------------------

Pass to AJ goes to the Texan 47. 28 yards.

Flat pass to AJ goes for 9.

Tate gets 1 yard and a 1st down at the Patriot 43.

Pass to Graham goes to the Patriot 25. 18 yards.

Tate powers for 7. 2nd and 3 coming up.

Tate for 2. Brings up 3rd and 1.

Keenum sneaks for 2 and the 1st down.

Tate for 9. 2nd and 1 at the 5 yard line.

Tate for no gain. 3rd and 1 coming up.

Eheh, Keenum keeps left side for the TD!

Texans 24, Patriots 21

2:11 left in the 3rd quarter.

[Nconroe]

I loved that call of Keenum rush for TD, still a game.

[nunusguy]

Aw right ! That's mixin it up, finally !

[chuck]

There's a play call. Nice job, lickey.

[BigBull]

I'll give credit to Kubiak for some nice play calling on that drive. Looks like they stole some of UofH's play book on Keenum's td run.

[Arky]

Patriots bring the ensuing kickoff back to about their 19. Patriot's ball.

---------------------------------

Vereen for 13 or 14.

Pass to Develin gets 12. Ball at the Pats 45.

Blount for 4. 2nd and 6 coming up.

Brady hits Gronk for 16. 1st down, ball at the Texan 35.

End of the 3rd quarter.

[Arky]

Dumpoff pass to Bolden gets big gainer. Ball at the Texan 17.

Vereen for 2.

Pass to Vereen in the endzone not caught/broken up, inc. 3rd and 8 coming up.

Patriots use a timeout (1 left).

----------------------

On 3rd and 8, pass to Edelman gets 9 and the 1st down. 1st and goal at the 7.

Blount runs it in for the TD.

Patriots 28, Texans 24

13:09 left in the game.

[BigBull]

This defense needs to make a stop in the second half or this is going to get ugly.:mad:

[BigBull]

Holly shit Keenum just let it rip.

[Arky]

The ensuing kickoff goes out of the endzone, touchback. Texan's ball at their 20.

---------------------------------

Deep pass to Hopkins goes for big gainer! 66 yards! Ball at the Pats 14!

Tate for 4.

Tate punches it in! 10 yards!

Texans 31, Patriots 28

11:35 left in the game.

--------------------------------

Tate 104 yards on 21 carries.

[BigBull]

Where has this team been all year? I mean they are going blow for blow with the freaking Pats.:confused:

[Arky]

Patriots bring the ensuing kickoff back to their 24. Patriot's ball.

----------------------------------

Pass to Amendola gets 7.

Pass to Edelman gets 11 and the 1st down.

Blount for maybe 2. 2nd and 8 coming up.

Vereen gets loose to the Texan 44. 1st down.

Pass to Edelman gets 12.

Brady's pass is tipped by Watt, inc. 2nd and 10 coming up.

Vereen caught in the backfield for loss of 3! 3rd and 13 coming up.

Pass to Gronk broken up, inc. Patriots are going to try the FG.

Gostkowski's 53-yarder is good.

Texans 31, Patriots 31

7:16 left in the game.

[Keith]

Aww Ben Jones not so hot on that third down.

[Arky]

Martin downs the ensuing kickoff in the endzone. Texan's ball at their 20.

------------------------------

Pass to Graham goes inc. 2nd and 10 coming up.

Pass to AJ is dropped, inc. 3rd and 10 coming up.

Keenum pressured throws inc. Texans to punt.

Pats ball at their 33.

[Arky]

Pass to Amendola gets 7.

Vereen for no gain. 3rd and 3 coming up.

Pass to Gronk goes all the way to the Texan 43. 1st down.

Blount for no gain. 4:34 left in the game.

Flag presnap.....no flag....timeout Texans......

On 2nd and 10, pass to Vereen gets 8. Under 4 minutes left in the game.

On 3rd and 2, Brady's short pass is broken up by Harris. Pats to try the FG.

Gostkowski's 53-yarder is good.

Patriots 34, Texans 31

3:12 left in the game.

[Arky]

The ensuing kickoff goes out of the endzone, touchback. Texan's ball at their 20.

-----------------------------

Pass to AJ gets 10 and a 1st down.

Keenum buys time and hits AJ for a gain of 15. 2:52 left in the game.

Tate caught in the backfield for loss of 3. 2nd and 13 coming up.

Pass to Hopkins is broken up, inc. 3rd and 13 coming up.

Keenum's 3rd down pass goes inc. Timeout Texans as they consider going for it on 4th and 13....

Keenum is sacked..... Patriots takeover on downs. 1:59 left in the game, Texans with 1 timeout left. Ball at the Texan 43.

[chuck]

Lickey back to form on the play calling.

[Arky]

Blount for 2. Texans use their last timeout.

Blount for 1. 3rd and 8 coming up. Under 1.5 minutes left in the game.

Blount for 2. Patriots use a timeout with 22 seconds left in the game. Patriots to punt.

Punt is downed at the Texan 5 with 7 seconds left.

Deep pass to Hopkins sails inc. 1 second left.

Deep pass at midfield is inc. Time runs out.

Final Score:

Patriots 34, Texans 31

---------------------------------

Defense's turn to blow chunks this game....

[BigBull]

Well, at least they are still in the hunt for the 1st pick in the draft.

[chuck]

Well, at least they are still in the hunt for the 1st pick in the draft.

Jacksonville's about to win.

[Nconroe]

Jacksonville's about to win.

Thursday night game for first pick in the draft.

Nice to see Keenum and Tate and AJ do good today for 31 points. Everybody played hard.

[chuck]

I don't really care who the next head coach is but I just want someone who knows how to control the clock and manage their time outs. Basically I want someone who's not a total mouthbreather. Maybe McNair can find one. But I doubt it.

[HPF Bob]

S _ _ K _ B _ T

I'd like to buy a vowel.

[chuck]

And just like that the Bills hang 7 on Atlanta. I can't imagine how Atlanta wins another game. And the Texans obviously won't win another. I have no idea how the tie-breaker works.

[chuck]

S _ _ K _ B _ T

I'd like to buy a vowel.

T H _ S F _ C K _ N G T _ _ M S _ C K S

Buy one.

There is no spate of bad luck involved here, dude; they suck. This is a disaster of an organization in every possible way. From the owner to the shithead who mixes the Gatorade. This is a loser organization. Period.

Face it. The Houston Texans are one of the handful of historically and continually terrible franchises in North American pro sports. Pretend otherwise if you want. But you know it's true.

The Vikings, on the other hand, appear snakebit.

[WMH]

S _ _ K _ B _ T

I'd like to buy a vowel.

Disagree. They're not snake bit, they're just not very good.

Keenum played better today, love watching him move around and make plays. Entertaining stuff. D was brutal in 2nd half.

I'm hoping for 4 more entertaining games that result in L's.

[chuck]

Son of a bitch. Atlanta won. Buffalo is snakebit.

[chuck]

The Texans are now unquestionably the worst team in the NFL. Twelve years of snakebit. Eventually you'd think someone would take a nice, sharp shovel to the snake but apparently not.

[HPF Bob]

I can't imagine how Atlanta wins another game.

Not to worry, Chuckles. The Bills obliged them in OT.

All the roadblocks have been cleared to get Teddy Bridgewater if that's who we want.

[chuck]

All the roadblocks have been cleared to get Teddy Bridgewater if that's who we want.

I would love to see the owner clean house and bring in a professional team to manage the Texans rather than the jailhouse snitch and his stupid sidekick. Then if they want Bridgewater or Clowney or whoever, fine. I'd just love to see a GM that knows what he's doing for a change and a head coach that out-coaches someone once every six or seven years or so.

But you and I both know that McNair will bung this up somehow.

This team has never had a real GM and it shows, painfully. I was watching the guys running around out there today trying to compete with an unusually talent depleted New England team and I was thinking, What!? The Texans have THESE guys out there!?

Just seeing their rookies and rejects kick beat our guys up and down is depressing. What's more depressing is knowing that nothing material is going to change.

[nunusguy]

Just seeing their rookies and rejects kick beat our guys up and down is depressing. What's more depressing is knowing that nothing material is going to change.
Say what ? I thought they were the ones with a HOF @ QB and we were the ones with the PS QB ?

[Keith]

Oh sometimes the jokes can just write themselves. Here, some source material...


"Either teams are spying on us or scouting us," Smith told a group of reporters.

Smith said the Texans introduced new wrinkles into their defense this week. He said that even though the Texans had never done those things in prior games, which would mean they weren't on film, the Patriots knew they were coming before they happened.

"I'm very suspicious," Smith said. "I just think it will be a big coincidence if that just happened by chance. I don't know for sure, but I just know it was something that we practiced this week."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10065048/antonio-smith-houston-texans-very-suspicious-new-england-patriots

[chuck]

New wrinkle? Say, I have an idea. Why don't the Texans find a couple of guys who can rush the passer and put them at OLB? Maybe put some pressure on a QB from time to time. Just as an experiment. That would be a new wrinkle.

[BigBull]

New wrinkle? Say, I have an idea. Why don't the Texans find a couple of guys who can rush the passer and put them at OLB? Maybe put some pressure on a QB from time to time. Just as an experiment. That would be a new wrinkle.

This to me is Smith's biggest failure as gm.

[barrett]

This to me is Smith's biggest failure as gm.

Or maybe his biggest failure as GM was letting his two best edge rushers walk in consecutive years (likely because he already had "his" guys as high draft picks on the roster).

This is my biggest problem with a GM change. Every new GM likes to usher out the old guard because he gets no credit for the team winning with the previous GM's players. So guys get pushed out for guys that the new GM drafted. You end up bleeding away talent and replacing positions that did not need to be replaced. And then when you don't hit on the draft picks used to replace those guys...

[nunusguy]

Or maybe his biggest failure as GM was letting his two best edge rushers walk in consecutive years (likely because he already had "his" guys as high draft picks on the roster).

There was no way they could afford to give Mario a new contract, plain and simple. And Barwin is hardly tearing it up in the sack department at Philly with only 4 at this point and the season now 75% completed.

[barrett]

There was no way they could afford to give Mario a new contract, plain and simple. And Barwin is hardly tearing it up in the sack department at Philly with only 4 at this point and the season now 75% completed.

They could have not paid schaub or foster. They could have never signed Joseph or Manning. They knew Mario was coming due and prioritized elsewhere, counting on Wade's system and Smith's draft picks to create outside pass rush. But any NFL team can keep any individual player if they want to badly enough. We obviously didn't, for better or worse.

[Joshua]

There was no way they could afford to give Mario a new contract, plain and simple. And Barwin is hardly tearing it up in the sack department at Philly with only 4 at this point and the season now 75% completed.

They didn't screw up the Mario situation when he became a free agent but 2 years before. As best I can recall, 2 years before the end of his deal, Harrison became the highest paid defender with a deal around 50 or 60 million. They should have went to Mario then, tore up his rookie deal and gave him a new deal for slightly more than Harrison. Now, I don't know he would have taken it, but generally players don't walk away from new deals that are given 2 years early and make them the highest paid players at their position.

They could have made this work.

[nunusguy]

They could have not paid schaub or foster. They could have never signed Joseph or Manning. They knew Mario was coming due and prioritized elsewhere, counting on Wade's system and Smith's draft picks to create outside pass rush. But any NFL team can keep any individual player if they want to badly enough. We obviously didn't, for better or worse.
OK for the sake of argument I'll agree that the Texans could have crafted thru a series of hypothetical moves a scenario where they had a large enough cap credit that would have permitted them to resign Mario for the kind of money the market would ultimately paid him when he hit FA, however I think Smith would have made a much bigger mistake committing that much to retain Mario.
Now I can certainly fault Smith (but not as much as Kubiak) for the timing of Scaubs contract extention, and the same goes to a lesser degree for the second contract they gave Cushing, but I commend Smith for the discipline he demonstrated in managing the situation with Mario. And while I have mixed feelings about the Texans decision to release Barwin, he's having another just so-so season @ Philly in sack stats, though he is proving to be a valuable member to their defense in other ways.

[barrett]

They didn't screw up the Mario situation when he became a free agent but 2 years before. As best I can recall, 2 years before the end of his deal, Harrison became the highest paid defender with a deal around 50 or 60 million. They should have went to Mario then, tore up his rookie deal and gave him a new deal for slightly more than Harrison. Now, I don't know he would have taken it, but generally players don't walk away from new deals that are given 2 years early and make them the highest paid players at their position.

They could have made this work.

Yep. They chose to spend on other players and positions. I can't say with any certainty that paying Mario results in more wins this year, like I said, it was a choice they made for better or worse. But I can say they voluntarily let a really good edge rusher walk and have been completely terrible at that position ever since.

[popanot]

Part of Mario's problem was that he was a #1 overall draft pick in the years prior to the new rookie wage scale and his salary/contract payout was already astronomical. I doubt there was anyone within the organization who really wanted Mario to go, but when you factor in his salary level at that the time vs. his production (and injury issues), there was no way the Texans could justify signing him to another monster deal. Had he been drafted #1 post-rookie wage scale, I firmly believe he would've gotten a second contract from the Texans.

As for the Joseph or Manning signings, I don't see how anyone can question those. They both were good deals and good players at the time and those signings greatly upgraded two positions in serious need of upgrade. It's easy in hindsight to look back and say they should have done this or that, but other than Coach Reed, I don't recall anyone on this board having a big problem with any of the FA moves Smith has made over the years at the time they occurred.

Looking back, the Carr deal was bad (can't recall if Smith was here then or not), the Ahman Green deal was bad (think that was Casserly), the Reed deal was bad (and thus letting Quinn walk), the last Schaub deal was bad, the Foster deal is looking bad, the Cushing deal might turn out bad... Ugh!

[nunusguy]

Part of Mario's problem was that he was a #1 overall draft pick in the years prior to the new rookie wage scale and his salary/contract payout was already astronomical. I doubt there was anyone within the organization who really wanted Mario to go, but when you factor in his salary level at that the time vs. his production (and injury issues), there was no way the Texans could justify signing him to another monster deal.

As for the Joseph or Manning signings, I don't see how anyone can question those. They both were good deals and good players at the time and those signings greatly upgraded two positions in serious need of upgrade. It's easy in hindsight to look back and say they should have done this or that, but other than Coach Reed, I don't recall anyone on this board having a big problem with any of the moves FA Smith has made over the years at the time they occurred.

Looking back, the Carr deal was bad (can't recall if Smith was here then or not), the Ahman Green deal was bad (think that was Casserly), the Reed deal was bad (and thus letting Quinn walk), the last Schaub deal was bad, the Foster deal is looking bad, the Cushing deal might turn out bad... Ugh!
Oh no, Carr was the teams first pick ever and Smith at that time was years from joining the Texans organization.
The biggest problem I see during Smiths tenure was the re-up of Schaub, and that decision had to be primarily Kubiaks. Coach Reed was Smiths mistake,
but it wasn't that an expensive of a screw-up. So yea I think Smith has established a pretty solid record here, though one glaring mistake for sure was Sam Montgomery. Who's idea was that ?

[popanot]

Oh no, Carr was the teams first pick ever and Smith at that time was years from joining the Texans organization.Yeah, I knew Smith wasn't here when Carr was drafted. I just wasn't sure if he was here when they gave him the extension. I know Kubiak was here, though, and that was the basis of why I thought Smith might have been here too. I think Smith came the year after the Carr extension.

[WMH]

Yeah, I knew Smith wasn't here when Carr was drafted. I just wasn't sure if he was here when they gave him the extension. I know Kubiak was here, though, and that was the basis of why I thought Smith might have been here too. I think Smith came the year after the Carr extension.

I think it was an option excercised, not an extension.

Either way, OOPS....

[barrett]

Part of Mario's problem was that he was a #1 overall draft pick in the years prior to the new rookie wage scale and his salary/contract payout was already astronomical. I doubt there was anyone within the organization who really wanted Mario to go, but when you factor in his salary level at that the time vs. his production (and injury issues), there was no way the Texans could justify signing him to another monster deal. Had he been drafted #1 post-rookie wage scale, I firmly believe he would've gotten a second contract from the Texans.

As for the Joseph or Manning signings, I don't see how anyone can question those. They both were good deals and good players at the time and those signings greatly upgraded two positions in serious need of upgrade. It's easy in hindsight to look back and say they should have done this or that, but other than Coach Reed, I don't recall anyone on this board having a big problem with any of the FA moves Smith has made over the years at the time they occurred.

Looking back, the Carr deal was bad (can't recall if Smith was here then or not), the Ahman Green deal was bad (think that was Casserly), the Reed deal was bad (and thus letting Quinn walk), the last Schaub deal was bad, the Foster deal is looking bad, the Cushing deal might turn out bad... Ugh!

Re: the manning and Joseph extensions, I wasn't questioning those in my post (or even the foster and schaub ones). Debating the merit of past contracts was not my intent. I was simply pointing out we made many big money moves that were a part of us prioritizing other positions over edge rusher. We chose to fill some holes with extensions, some with FAs, and some with draft picks. In that whole process we judged that we could let a known quantity in Mario (and Barwin) walk, and replace enough of his production with a draft pick. We could have let Foster walk, tried to replace him with a draft pick and failed just as miserably. We could have bet on 2nd rounder Brandon Harris instead of 2nd rounder Reed, and never signed Joseph and that would have been a fail.

Basically we screwed up the OLB position in every possible way and our reward is watching brooks reed run at the OT 50 times a game to setup a weak spin move that never works.

[Keith]

Basically we screwed up the OLB position in every possible way and our reward is watching brooks reed run at the OT 50 times a game to setup a weak spin move that never works.
Painful. The lack of success at either OLB position is made even more painful knowing that this defense has in J.J. Watt someone who may be the best interior DL of his generation. Sorta like having an Andre Johnson and only giving him David Carr and Matt Schaub to pass him the football.

Given how little Reed and Mercilus have produced, seems like we'd have no special ties to keeping the 3-4 if someone wanted to change it next year.

[chuck]

Given the fact that the team has no linebackers at all who a) don't suck or b) can stay on the fng field I would be all in favor of a scheme that reduces the number of required linebackers.

I would also be interested in any scheme which reduces the necessary number of competent members of the defensive secondary.

When I'm 80 years old I'm going to watch the Hall of Fame weekend and I'm going to see Andre and JJ there in their jackets, old and gray and who knows, maybe even fat. They'll be welcoming the new guys, guys who are kids now, toddlers maybe even. And they'll be laughing with each other about how f'd up their franchise was and how wildly mismanaged and what a waste the whole thing was. And when I see that I'm going to throw my goddamn walker right through the window.