Texans FA's

[popanot]

Decided to make a thread for the FA's. It looks all of ours are hitting the market. Not good for the OL. Here's recent tweet RE: Mario...

Adam Schefter ‏ - @AdamSchefter::::
Free agent defensive end Mario Williams plans to visit the Buffalo Bills tonight
(3/13/12)

[Nconroe]

Yep, looks like all our FA have decided to test the market. and why not.

[WMH]

I was wondering what kind of money that a #2 WR would get, you know, someone like Garcon. Well, that market has been set by Garcon, to the tune of 5 yrs, $42.5MM with $21 gtd as he signs with the Skins.

Maybe Jacoby wasn't so bad afterall :rolleyes:
Don't see us playing in that game.

[barrett]

I was wondering what kind of money that a #2 WR would get, you know, someone like Garcon. Well, that market has been set by Garcon, to the tune of 5 yrs, $42.5MM with $21 gtd as he signs with the Skins.

Maybe Jacoby wasn't so bad afterall :rolleyes:
Don't see us playing in that game.

All FAs are overpaid. That's why I didn't get the idea that we should dump Mario to overpay someone else on the FA market.

[WMH]

Ruh roh » RT @ShawnZobel_DHQ: Green Bay is talking to Houston center Chris Myers to replace Wells -- BigRon (@BigRon281)

[chuck]

Ruh roh » RT @ShawnZobel_DHQ: Green Bay is talking to Houston center Chris Myers to replace Wells -- BigRon (@BigRon281)

Why not? They were talking with him a week ago, why not keep talking now?

[Blitzwood]

:eek:Decided to make a thread for the FA's. It looks all of ours are hitting the market. Not good for the OL. Here's recent tweet RE: Mario...

Adam Schefter ‏ - @AdamSchefter::::
Free agent defensive end Mario Williams plans to visit the Buffalo Bills tonight
(3/13/12)

From SI:

How badly do the Buffalo Bills want to sign free-agent defensive end Mario Williams? Here’s how badly — according to Mark Gaughan of Buffalo News, the team is committed to making Williams the top-paid defensive player in the NFL.

That’s a lofty goal. The Chicago Bears signed Julius Peppers for six years and $91.5 million in 2010, with over half that money guaranteed. But the Bills are dying to sign Williams, the two-time Pro Bowler with 53 career sacks to his name.


http://tracking.si.com/2012/03/14/report-bills-willing-to-shell-out-record-breaking-money-for-mario-williams/?xid=si_nfl

[nunusguy]

OK so this guy goes out and blows all of his cash plus going deeply into debt to purchase a brand new Maserati leaving himself without even enough money to make his mortgage payment so that his house is now repossessed and he's no longer got a house (with a garage) to park his brand new prize vehicle. Is this what Rick Smith has done, put himself in a crappy neighborhood in a rental and his new car parked out in front on the curb, and if so how could he make such a
miscalculation ?

[Nconroe]

I think with new cba it is more like your at an auction and several buyers are willing to overpay. Good for good players. Probably not good for the average of 500 plus FA this year.

[Joshua]

OK so this guy goes out and blows all of his cash plus going deeply into debt to purchase a brand new Maserati leaving himself without even enough money to make his mortgage payment so that his house is now repossessed and he's no longer got a house (with a garage) to park his brand new prize vehicle. Is this what Rick Smith has done, put himself in a crappy neighborhood in a rental and his new car parked out in front on the curb, and if so how could he make such a
miscalculation ?

I think it was LZ who tweeted that the Texans are in cap hell right now. What I don't understand is how. OK, that's not entirely accurate, I do somewhat understand how but it shouldn't be the case. If you were to make a list of the most important/best guys on this team, I suspect that, in random order, it would look something like this:

Arian Foster
Andre Johnson
Duane Brown
Brian Cushing
Johnathan Joseph
J.J. Watt
Mario Williams
Chris Myers
Matt Schaub
Connor Barwin
Owen Daniels
Brooks Reed

Of that list, 5 are still on their rookie contracts and are considerably underpaid (especially the late 1st rounders and 2nd rounders). And Foster was in that camp as of last week as well. 2 are free agents right now (Myers and Mario) with several more to become free agents next year (Brown, Schaub, Barwin).

To date, the core of our team has been very cheap and virtually none of them are locked up long term. The Texans should be in a great cap situation. With the exception of Joseph, AJ, and now Foster, they were getting all of their good players on the cheap. Unfortunately, the warm fuzzies produced by this season are starting to wear off and I may be returning to my pessimistic ways.

[nunusguy]

I think with new cba it is more like your at an auction and several buyers are willing to overpay.
But that's nothing new, it's always been the case where there's a team or two which would over pay for a certain free agent. It seems to me that it's part of the GMs job to anticipate that and lock up his key players before they have a chance to hit free agency ?
Unless you think that Rick Smith believes he can plug just anybody into the Texans' zone-blocking OLine and make it work, it's a disaster if he's misjudged this free agency so badly that the Texans lose 60 % of their OLine in this offseason.

[popanot]

Of that list, 5 are still on their rookie contracts and are considerably underpaid (especially the late 1st rounders and 2nd rounders). And Foster was in that camp as of last week as well. 2 are free agents right now (Myers and Mario) with several more to become free agents next year (Brown, Schaub, Barwin).

To date, the core of our team has been very cheap and virtually none of them are locked up long term. The Texans should be in a great cap situation. With the exception of Joseph, AJ, and now Foster, they were getting all of their good players on the cheap. Unfortunately, the warm fuzzies produced by this season are starting to wear off and I may be returning to my pessimistic ways.And you can add into the equation that AJ has renegotiated twice to help out the cap situation. I don't get it either. Where is this $$ being spent? OD re-signed recently and I guess they had to pay well for A. Smith, but come on, it's not like this roster is studded with high-priced vets and FAs.

Now, I'm not down on Smith or the Texans for not being players in FA this year. I'm glad they're not, actually. However, I'm HUGELY down on him for getting us into this situation and possibly losing some of our key guys (OL). These are guys that are on the 'lower-end' payscale by NFL standards. Even worse is the fact next year is going to be downright scary if they can't figure it out. We have some big names coming up for new contracts. D. Brown alone is going to get a king's ransom.

[WMH]

Ben Tate on the move? http://t.co/5IK60yQn -- Dave Richard (@daverichard)

[popanot]

Ben Tate on the move? http://t.co/5IK60yQn -- Dave Richard (@daverichard)Other than a draft pick, what the does CLE have to offer? The only way I'd give up Tate for a draft pick is if it's for a #1 and I doubt CLE would do that. Guess I'd consider Little, but it's not like he's proven and I'm not sure CLE would even give him up.

[WMH]

Other than a draft pick, what the does CLE have to offer? The only way I'd give up Tate for a draft pick is if it's for a #1 and I doubt CLE would do that. Guess I'd consider Little, but it's not like he's proven and I'm not sure CLE would even give him up.

Dunno, was surprised to see that. IF they have to retool the O-line, draft may be the only thing we can afford. CLE does have 2 1s.....

[WMH]

Other than a draft pick, what the does CLE have to offer? The only way I'd give up Tate for a draft pick is if it's for a #1 and I doubt CLE would do that. Guess I'd consider Little, but it's not like he's proven and I'm not sure CLE would even give him up.

Ben Tate's agent has told me he can't confirm/deny there have been trade negotiations w/ his client, but it "wouldn't surprise me" he says -- Keith Britton (@KeithBritton86)

[popanot]

Tate and our #26 for #4? Blackmon/Claiborne/or Kalil @ #4 and use our #2 on LaMicheal James - or OL and Peed w/#3? :) It would make sense trying to get something big for Tate. Value is high and he's probably none too happy with the Foster deal.

[Keith]

I think it was LZ who tweeted that the Texans are in cap hell right now. What I don't understand is how. Complicating the cap situation for 2012 is that the Texans probably expected the cap to increase far more than it did over 2011. Prior to the new CBA, I remember thinking a few years ago that I thought the 2012 cap would be closer to $140 million by this point.

The Texans never thought it would be that high this year, but it only jumped less than a half million. That's got to be less than they thought.

[Joshua]

Complicating the cap situation for 2012 is that the Texans probably expected the cap to increase far more than it did over 2011. Prior to the new CBA, I remember thinking a few years ago that I thought the 2012 cap would be closer to $140 million by this point.

The Texans never thought it would be that high this year, but it only jumped less than a half million. That's got to be less than they thought.

Admittedly, my cap knowledge is limited to say the least. However, I seem to recall it being known once the new CBA was completed that the cap would be fairly stagnant the first 2 years into the deal; i.e., 2011 and 2012. I may not be remembering this correctly though.

In any event, my biggest complaint is that of our top 12 players (or at least, my rough estimation of them), about half are underpaid, 2 are free agents this year and 3 are free agents next year. How can you be in cap hell when virtually all of your top players are on their rookie contracts, free agents or soon-to-be free agents?

[Keith]

How can you be in cap hell when virtually all of your top players are on their rookie contracts, free agents or soon-to-be free agents?Because the #s add up fast.

Schaub - $10.95M
Joseph - $9.75M
Andre (pre-restructure) - $8.84M
Ninja - $8.8M
Foster - $7.9M
Manning - $5M
Walter - $3.5M
Cushing - $3.28M
Jacoby - Don't remember.
Duane - Don't remember.
Daniels - Don't remember.

This is probably ~$70 million or so. Leaves $50 million for the other 40 in the top 51. It goes fast.

ETA - The real problem at this point is Schaub's #. He is in the final year now, a perfect time to extend if the Texans are REALLY committed to the guy, i.e. not just Bob McNair giving us all lip service like he did this week when addressing Peyton rumors. If Bob really loved Schaub as much as he said, they would have extended his contract by now.

[Joshua]

Because the #s add up fast.

Schaub - $10.95M
Joseph - $9.75M
Andre (pre-restructure) - $8.84M
Ninja - $8.8M
Foster - $7.9M
Manning - $5M
Walter - $3.5M
Cushing - $3.28M
Jacoby - Don't remember.
Duane - Don't remember.
Daniels - Don't remember.

This is probably ~$70 million or so. Leaves $50 million for the other 40 in the top 51. It goes fast.

ETA - The real problem at this point is Schaub's #. He is in the final year now, a perfect time to extend if the Texans are REALLY committed to the guy, i.e. not just Bob McNair giving us all lip service like he did this week when addressing Peyton rumors. If Bob really loved Schaub as much as he said, they would have extended his contract by now.

I get the arithmetic. And I'm not trying to bust your chops and I appreciate your responses. My point is just that I think they have potentially mismanaged the cap if half their top 12 players are underpaid yet we're still too cap strapped to even attempt to retain the few who are reaching free agency.

Every team in the league deals with the same cap. Apparently, we're in one of the worst cap shapes of any team in the league despite the bargains we're currently enjoying with Brown, Watt, Barwin, Reed, Cushing, Quin, etc.

[WMH]

[QUOTE=Keith;29626]Because the #s add up fast.

Schaub - $10.95M
Joseph - $9.75M
Andre (pre-restructure) - $8.84M
Ninja - $8.8M
Foster - $7.9M
Manning - $5M
Walter - $3.5M
Cushing - $3.28M
Jacoby - Don't remember.
Duane - Don't remember.
Daniels - Don't remember.

This is probably ~$70 million or so. Leaves $50 million for the other 40 in the top 51. It goes fast.

ETA - The real problem at this point is Schaub's #. He is in the final year now, a perfect time to extend if the Texans are REALLY committed to the guy, i.e. not just Bob McNair giving us all lip service like he did this week when addressing Peyton rumors. If Bob really loved Schaub as much as he said, they would have extended his contract by now. [QUOTE]

Only problem with this one is Schaub is not healthy. That is a huge risk. I know we've all heard the lip service from the Chronic and others, but still a risk they may not want to take.

If they want to extend anyone, I would think they would look at Antonio. He's solid, and I believe has 2 years left.

Also, remember all those restructures from last year to get JJoe and DManning? They dumped '11 money into '12, and ......Well, here we are.

[popanot]

ETA - The real problem at this point is Schaub's #. He is in the final year now, a perfect time to extend if the Texans are REALLY committed to the guy, i.e. not just Bob McNair giving us all lip service like he did this week when addressing Peyton rumors. If Bob really loved Schaub as much as he said, they would have extended his contract by now.Totally agree with this. I'm actually stunned they haven't extended anyone at this point, especially Schaub. Save for Foster, it amazes me how this franchise waits until the witching hour to re-sign the guys you know they want to keep.

BTW, new tweet:
Liz Mullen‏ @SBJLizMullen -
Texans free agent Center Chris Myers is going to visit the Tennessee Titans tomorrow.

Just think how fun this offseason will be if the Titans sign Manning and Myers.

[barrett]

I was wondering what kind of money that a #2 WR would get, you know, someone like Garcon. Well, that market has been set by Garcon, to the tune of 5 yrs, $42.5MM with $21 gtd as he signs with the Skins.

Maybe Jacoby wasn't so bad afterall :rolleyes:
Don't see us playing in that game.

Unless Tennessee is running a zone scheme I almost hope they overpay Meyers. He will get pushed around in any traditional scheme.

The problem is when you win teams start overpaying for your guys because you made them look good. Aside from Duane brown I think OL are more plug and play than RBs in our offense.

[Keith]

I get the arithmetic. And I'm not trying to bust your chops and I appreciate your responses. My point is just that I think they have potentially mismanaged the cap if half their top 12 players are underpaid yet we're still too cap strapped to even attempt to retain the few who are reaching free agency.

Every team in the league deals with the same cap. Apparently, we're in one of the worst cap shapes of any team in the league despite the bargains we're currently enjoying with Brown, Watt, Barwin, Reed, Cushing, Quin, etc.
So two points... first, who's underpaid? Just the guys still playing their rookie contracts? That's pretty good actually. And second, pity the Texans for having so many of their draft picks live up to and exceed their draft expectations. It's a good problem to have.

So how have they mismanaged the cap? Compared to the latter half of the Casserly years, this administration has done really well. The Texans just have a lot of players on the payroll who are actually earning what they are getting paid. It finally paid off in the win column last season as well.

Just checked, the sky is not falling.

[barrett]

So two points... first, who's underpaid? Just the guys still playing their rookie contracts? That's pretty good actually. And second, pity the Texans for having so many of their draft picks live up to and exceed their draft expectations. It's a good problem to have.

So how have they mismanaged the cap? Compared to the latter half of the Casserly years, this administration has done really well. The Texans just have a lot of players on the payroll who are actually earning what they are getting paid. It finally paid off in the win column last season as well.

Just checked, the sky is not falling.

Exactly. When you successfully create one of the most talented rosters, you are going to have one of the most expensive. It is why teams like Indy and NE have bled talent for years. It is far harder to stay talented than to get talented.

[Keith]

Only problem with this one is Schaub is not healthy. That is a huge risk. I know we've all heard the lip service from the Chronic and others, but still a risk they may not want to take.Oh, I agree totally with this reasoning, just implying that McNair's praise of Schaub and reasoning for not pursuing Manning rings hollow when most teams who love their QB probably don't let him dangle in the final contract year when he realistically has several productive years left in his body.

Reality is yeah, I am nervous as heck investing in Schaub given his injury history and more immediately just how healthy he even is right now. With him healthy, this is a Super Bowl team.

The brittle tag on Schaub has often been too harsh, but missed games are missed games, and Schaub has missed a lot.

[WMH]

In all seriousness, I truly believe that the Texans have an offer on the table for Mario, if/when he signs with Buffalo, these funds will be immediately diverted to Myers. Not saying I agree with thier priority, but I think that was what they are thinking.

The problem with all of this is timing. As we saw last year, Smith was quick to dump the Aso chase and deal with JJoe. IMO, we are in a better spot this year, as Myers likely wants to return. Hopefully, it will work out like this.

My glass is still half full......for now. ;)

[Keith]

My glass sits half full at the moment too. My only question is if the Texans know that the Bills want to fork over a $100M deal to Mario, I just am not sure if I'd be as willing to pay for it.

That they prioritize pass rush over all else, great.
That they prioritize Myers over Winston, great.
That they haven't made a "splash" yet in UFA, great.

Mostly my other question is just why both Jacoby and Walter are both still on the roster at their current cap figures. Neither is a #2 WR, yet both are paid at or near that amount.

I'd also try to get DeMeco to renegotiate/restructure. His replacements, be they Dobbins or Sharpton, seem capable, though I do admit they probably lack the leadership that DeMeco provides. Just wonder how important his leadership still is given what the unit achieved last season.

[barrett]

My glass sits half full at the moment too. My only question is if the Texans know that the Bills want to fork over a $100M deal to Mario, I just am not sure if I'd be as willing to pay for it.

That they prioritize pass rush over all else, great.
That they prioritize Myers over Winston, great.
That they haven't made a "splash" yet in UFA, great.

Mostly my other question is just why both Jacoby and Walter are both still on the roster at their current cap figures. Neither is a #2 WR, yet both are paid at or near that amount.

I'd also try to get DeMeco to renegotiate/restructure. His replacements, be they Dobbins or Sharpton, seem capable, though I do admit they probably lack the leadership that DeMeco provides. Just wonder how important his leadership still is given what the unit achieved last season.

Those would be my 2 questions too. I cannot imagine JJ surviving and certainly cannot understand dumping a very reliable Winston instead of the flaky JJ.

[WMH]

My glass sits half full at the moment too. My only question is if the Texans know that the Bills want to fork over a $100M deal to Mario, I just am not sure if I'd be as willing to pay for it.

That they prioritize pass rush over all else, great.
That they prioritize Myers over Winston, great.
That they haven't made a "splash" yet in UFA, great.

Mostly my other question is just why both Jacoby and Walter are both still on the roster at their current cap figures. Neither is a #2 WR, yet both are paid at or near that amount.

I'd also try to get DeMeco to renegotiate/restructure. His replacements, be they Dobbins or Sharpton, seem capable, though I do admit they probably lack the leadership that DeMeco provides. Just wonder how important his leadership still is given what the unit achieved last season.

It could be that is all part of thier "plan" for if/when they need the space. Why push funds around unless you need to?

Maybe...I dunno. Just thinking outloud in a somewhat positive manner.

[popanot]

Not sure how accurate the info is, but LZ reported yesterday that Demeco's actual 2012 cap savings if he were to be cut would only be ~$1MM. If that's the case, why cut him? Seems there would be better places to save.

JJ and Walter on the other hand... I think both of those guys combined would be ~$7MM. I'd cut both and hope you can find a rookie or cheap vet FA late in camp (maybe Santana Moss?) for the vet minimum.

BTW, if you heard McNair on the 610 yesterday, he made a comment to the effect of "we'd love to re-sign our players, but we're going to let them test the waters and let the market determine their value".

[popanot]

Vickers a Cowpie...

Mark Berman‏ @MarkBermanFox26 -
Free agent FB Lawrence Vickers signs with the Cowboys.

----------------------------------
EDIT: In other news.... Ugh....

Mark Berman‏ (@MarkBermanFox26)
Jeff Sperbeck, agent for Mike Brisiel, says Mike will visit with the Raiders tomorrow.

Mark Berman‏ (@MarkBermanFox26)
Jeff Sperbeck, agent for TE Joel Dreessen, says Joel has visit set up with Saints for this weekend.

[Joshua]

So two points... first, who's underpaid? Just the guys still playing their rookie contracts? That's pretty good actually. And second, pity the Texans for having so many of their draft picks live up to and exceed their draft expectations. It's a good problem to have.

So how have they mismanaged the cap? Compared to the latter half of the Casserly years, this administration has done really well. The Texans just have a lot of players on the payroll who are actually earning what they are getting paid. It finally paid off in the win column last season as well.

Just checked, the sky is not falling.

First, I, of course, agree that having your rookies work out is great and I never suggested otherwise (something I pretty sure you understood). However, if all of your best players are your draft picks and you're currently getting them at a discount, this should suggest that you should not be one of the worst cap teams in the league. A healthy cap should be one of the fruits of your labors.

As for who is underpaid, as I said above, I think about half of our top 12 players are underpaid, several vastly so. When half of your best 12 players are underpaid and several other important pieces are set to be free agents shortly and you're up against the cap, I think that suggests a problem. Your mileage may vary.

[Keith]

First, I, of course, agree that having your rookies work out is great and I never suggested otherwise (something I pretty sure you understood). However, if all of your best players are your draft picks and you're currently getting them at a discount, this should suggest that you should not be one of the worst cap teams in the league. A healthy cap should be one of the fruits of your labors.

As for who is underpaid, as I said above, I think about half of our top 12 players are underpaid, several vastly so. When half of your best 12 players are underpaid and several other important pieces are set to be free agents shortly and you're up against the cap, I think that suggests a problem. Your mileage may vary.
I think the point missed here is that the Texans now have MORE than a typical number of players that are deserving of what they are paid (or to your point, what they ought to be paid soon).

I mean, have the Texans had such an abundance of talent in which we could easily rattle off their best 12 players before? The Texans have one of the deepest rosters in the entire league now. "Next man up" wasn't just a cool saying last season.

A healthy cap is NOT one of the fruits of your labors. In fact, making difficult cap-related decisions is such a fruit of these labors (or instead maybe a vegetable in this analogy). Good, nay great, teams have had to say goodbye to their talent bearing these fruits.

[chuck]

I think it's pretty clear that the team feels it has a replacement for Winston on the roster yet they do not believe they have a third #2 receiver on the roster. I expect they will look to address that via the draft and once they do we can say goodbye to Jacoby and maybe Walter as well although I expect that at the end of the day they'll keep Walter.

[Nconroe]

If all these FA leave do we get compensatory draft picks like Patriots always did?

[painekiller]

If all these FA leave do we get compensatory draft picks like Patriots always did?

That depends on how many FAs we sign, and it depends, IIRC, on if the guys replacing the FA that left was from our roster or signed from someone else's roster.

[Warren]

The Texans won't get compensatory picks for the guys they cut -- Winston, Vickers, and Leinart, only (possibly) for the ones whose contracts expired.

[WMH]

If all these FA leave do we get compensatory draft picks like Patriots always did?

There is some goofy formula they use. No one has ever been able to explain it to me. As point of reference, I think we got a 7th for DRob. Mario "might" be a 4th, but as stated, depends on replacement signings.

[HPF Bob]

I don't know what the new CBA calls for but it would be just our luck if they made it harder to get comp picks just like the Astros got screwed by the new CBA on their draft picks now that they're drafting first overall.

Under the old system, Mario probably would get us a pick at the end of the third round and Meyers might get us a 6th rounder provided we didn't sign valuable FAs from other teams to offset our losses. But I have no idea if any of that is still relevant to the new CBA.

[Joshua]

I think the point missed here is that the Texans now have MORE than a typical number of players that are deserving of what they are paid (or to your point, what they ought to be paid soon).

I mean, have the Texans had such an abundance of talent in which we could easily rattle off their best 12 players before? The Texans have one of the deepest rosters in the entire league now. "Next man up" wasn't just a cool saying last season.

A healthy cap is NOT one of the fruits of your labors. In fact, making difficult cap-related decisions is such a fruit of these labors (or instead maybe a vegetable in this analogy). Good, nay great, teams have had to say goodbye to their talent bearing these fruits.

We've probably taken this about as far as it needs to go, but I'll just add that I agree with almost everything you say here, but that it misses the point I was trying to make. The Texans do have a fair amount of talent now and do have a bunch of guys that will expect to get paid in the near future. I also agree that good teams with lots of talent will ultimately get poached by other teams and eventually tough cap decisions will have to be made. I dispute none of this. The question is when this happens. I see no reason why we should be in this situation now, although I acknowledge that if we continue to be successful, it will be a situation that will arise in the coming years.

As you mentioned the Colts and the Patriots, these are teams that maintained ridiculously high levels of success for the better part of a decade. We've had one good year. If this offseason followed our 3rd 12+ win season, then, yeah, hanging onto guys after that type of sustained success is difficult. However, I think that being cap-strapped and unable to retain virtually any of your free agents in the very first offseason after your very first decent season in team history is a little early for that ship to be sailing. Maybe the Colts and the Patriots started hemorrhaging their best offensive linemen and their best pass rushers to free agency because they lacked cap space after their very first winning season, but I doubt it. That's the only point I was trying to make.

[cadams]

Because the #s add up fast.

Schaub - $10.95M
Joseph - $9.75M
Andre (pre-restructure) - $8.84M
Ninja - $8.8M
Foster - $7.9M
Manning - $5M
Walter - $3.5M
Cushing - $3.28M
Jacoby - Don't remember.
Duane - Don't remember.
Daniels - Don't remember.

This is probably ~$70 million or so. Leaves $50 million for the other 40 in the top 51. It goes fast.

ETA - The real problem at this point is Schaub's #. He is in the final year now, a perfect time to extend if the Texans are REALLY committed to the guy, i.e. not just Bob McNair giving us all lip service like he did this week when addressing Peyton rumors. If Bob really loved Schaub as much as he said, they would have extended his contract by now.

isn't ryans' number pretty high this year?

[Keith]

isn't ryans' number pretty high this year?
Well, I had his salary at $5.9 million for 2012, but I never completed his new contract in my notes, so I can't verify what his cap figure is for this year offhand. But yes, he slipped my mind when I put together that list, good catch.

[popanot]

Bills press conference at 1:30 EST to announce Mario signing. Not shocking since we knew someone would pay stupid money for him. Guess it's better he goes to the Bills than an AFC-S team. While it's sad to see him go, no way is he worth being the top paid DL or D player in the league and I think the Bills will be disappointed in the long run.

EDIT:
Jason La Canfora ‏ @JasonLaCanfora
Don't have official numbers on Mario Williams in BUF yet, but been hearing $16M a year with $50M guaranteed

No way the Texasn pay that based on production.

[chuck]

Everybody knows I've always liked Mario and I hope he does well in Buffalo when he's not playing against the Texans. But I find it very, very difficult to digest why anyone much less the most sought-after free agent on the market would deliberately go to Buffalo. Buffalo is without a doubt the worst city with a major league professional sports franchise in the United States. That means Buffalo is worse than Columbus, OH, and Oklahoma City. Detroit is a freaking paradise compared with Buffalo.

I would take $45MM guaranteed and go to Atlanta, thank you.

[nunusguy]

Buffalo is without a doubt the worst city with a major league professional sports franchise in the United States.


Have you ever been there ? I know what people say about it, the jokes and all, but really personally I don't know about Buffalo because I've not ever been
there.

[Nconroe]

Well, Mario needs to get used to Buffalo since he accepted their offer.

Wish him well.

[chuck]

Have you ever been there ? I know what people say about it, the jokes and all, but really personally I don't know about Buffalo because I've not ever been
there.

Of course I have, otherwise how would I know? You can get Canadian radio up there, they have that going for them. Not sure how much of an impact that would have on Mario. Hey, sweet! Leonard Cohen! He NEVER gets played on the radio in Houston!

And really, there is nothing to joke about when it comes to Buffalo. It is bleak, it is ugly, it is brutal, it has no future. Literally, there is no future for that place.

[Arky]

Well, look at it this way: the cap problem just became not so much of a problem.... I think we sign Myers or Brisiel or both, now..

[nunusguy]

Of course I have, otherwise how would I know? You can get Canadian radio up there, they have that going for them. Not sure how much of an impact that would have on Mario. Hey, sweet! Leonard Cohen! He NEVER gets played on the radio in Houston!

And really, there is nothing to joke about when it comes to Buffalo. It is bleak, it is ugly, it is brutal, it has no future. Literally, there is no future for that place.
Very briefly visited Cleveland once which of course is also on the Great Lakes and in the same general area, but know nothing first hand about Buffalo.

[chuck]

Very briefly visited Cleveland once which of course is also on the Great Lakes and in the same general area, but know nothing first hand about Buffalo.

Cleveland is not nearly as bad as Buffalo. There are some interesting pockets and there is still a functioning economy to some degree. Ohio's really disappointing city is Columbus which is a total shithole despite having an enormous university. In my experience any city with a university that size, especially when it's not purely a commuter school, that city is interesting. Not Columbus.

If I were being literal I would have to place Green Bay in with Buffalo as tied for worst because Green Bay... Well, imagine moving Lufkin about a thousand miles north. But I arbitrarily credit Green Bay with an association with Milwaukee which is a reasonably pleasant place all things considered.

[WMH]

Now that Mario's fate is decided, I will be really disappointed/surprised if we don't start seeing some activity out of the FO.

Restructures/cuts "should" be coming in order to get Myers and Briesel back in the mix.

Fingers crossed.

[HPF Bob]

We all debated about the cost savings if we let Mario walk but it seems like we're letting everybody walk but Foster and then some.

We've lost Mario, Winston, Vickers, Leinart and are probably losing Dreesen and Meyers.

We might lose Briesel and Rackers.

We kept Foster.

We've added....?

Am I missing something or was all that alleged cap room if we didn't re-sign Mario just a myth?

[WMH]

Am I missing something or was all that alleged cap room if we didn't re-sign Mario just a myth?

It was a myth, as I think we assumed we were up against it due to Mario, when in fact, we were screwed without Mario.

[WMH]

Might be able to scratch Myers off the Titans list. They just signed Hutchinson. Just don't see two "large" FA deals on interior OL if they want to stay in Peyton chase.

[HPF Bob]

I read that Hutchinson is a close friend of Manning's even though they have only been teammates at the Pro Bowl so the signing is actually Bud's way of going "all out" to get Peyton. I hope it works.

[NBT]

I'm not a CapO, but I think the cap last year was $121M, and we were $20M over that trying to add enough to get into a playoff spot. So even getting out from under Mario's salary cap figure ($18M) for last year, we are still up against it.

[nunusguy]

Cleveland is not nearly as bad as Buffalo. There are some interesting pockets and there is still a functioning economy to some degree. Ohio's really disappointing city is Columbus which is a total shithole despite having an enormous university. In my experience any city with a university that size, especially when it's not purely a commuter school, that city is interesting. Not Columbus.

If I were being literal I would have to place Green Bay in with Buffalo as tied for worst because Green Bay... Well, imagine moving Lufkin about a thousand miles north. But I arbitrarily credit Green Bay with an association with Milwaukee which is a reasonably pleasant place all things considered.
Looks like you don't like cold weather at all and automatically assign a very low-ranking to any city in such a climate ? I've got a nephew in Green Bay who has a really good job at a local nuclear power facility and he and family like the GB area very much.

[chuck]

Looks like you don't like cold weather at all and automatically assign a very low-ranking to any city in such a climate ? I've got a nephew in Green Bay who has a really good job at a local nuclear power facility and he and family like the GB area very much.

I like cold weather fine. I lived in the north for many years. I like snow and I like to ski. Buffalo is a barren city with no future and Green Bay is a desolate pit that would be a sad place to live if it were in Florida or any other warm weather state. Imagine Ocala, FL, just not as glamorous.

[cadams]

i think joshua's point is more about mismanaging the cap than losign good players because they are living up to expectations. particularly, how do you let you best defensive player over the past 5 years go into his final season under his contract without getting him extended when you have some leverage? especially when his cap number last year was 18 million dollars. you could have extended him last year without having to get anywhere close to 50 million guarenteed, and could have significantly lowered his cap number (especially if you had done it 2 years ago).

also, how do you let your starting center make it all the way through his contract. before this past season he could have been signed for a respectable, and probably cap friendly number.

finally, i am happy they resigned foster, and i think the contract is valued about right, but why would you give him a 5.5 million dollar salary the first year of the contract when you could have put that into the signing bonus and lowered his cap number by 4 + million this year? maybe there is a reason,i originally thought it may be about next year, but in reality doing that would have only added about 800k to his cap hit next year as well.

like i said, maybe there are reasons for all of these issues, but it seems like last year's offseason may have been more about luck and desperation than about rick smith actually growing in his role.

[nunusguy]

I like cold weather fine. I lived in the north for many years. I like snow and I like to ski. Buffalo is a barren city with no future and Green Bay is a desolate pit that would be a sad place to live if it were in Florida or any other warm weather state. Imagine Ocala, FL, just not as glamorous.
I've not been to GB either, but specifically what makes you describe it as a "desolate pit" ?
What I've seen of Wisconsin is some very attractive country, and I mentioned my nephews job in GB, so there's an example of employment opportunties there and they are very satisfied with their home, neighbors, etc. and they've become big Packers fans. What's not to like about that ? Now it is a pretty square-area in the sense that it's all about family, so if you want the night life and dollys, the whole single scene and all then you might find the area very uninteresting ?

[barrett]

i think joshua's point is more about mismanaging the cap than losign good players because they are living up to expectations. particularly, how do you let you best defensive player over the past 5 years go into his final season under his contract without getting him extended when you have some leverage? especially when his cap number last year was 18 million dollars. you could have extended him last year without having to get anywhere close to 50 million guarenteed, and could have significantly lowered his cap number (especially if you had done it 2 years ago).

also, how do you let your starting center make it all the way through his contract. before this past season he could have been signed for a respectable, and probably cap friendly number.

finally, i am happy they resigned foster, and i think the contract is valued about right, but why would you give him a 5.5 million dollar salary the first year of the contract when you could have put that into the signing bonus and lowered his cap number by 4 + million this year? maybe there is a reason,i originally thought it may be about next year, but in reality doing that would have only added about 800k to his cap hit next year as well.

like i said, maybe there are reasons for all of these issues, but it seems like last year's offseason may have been more about luck and desperation than about rick smith actually growing in his role.

With Mario I am guessing it had to do with the switch to the 34. We had no idea if it would work out, and signing him without knowing would have been foolish.

[chuck]

I've not been to GB either, but specifically what makes you describe it as a "desolate pit" ?
What I've seen of Wisconsin is some very attractive country, and I mentioned my nephews job in GB, so there's an example of employment opportunties there and they are very satisfied with their home, neighbors, etc. and they've become big Packers fans. What's not to like about that ? Now it is a pretty square-area in the sense that it's all about family, so if you want the night life and dollys, the whole single scene and all then you might find the area very uninteresting ?

I'm glad your nephew likes it there and is doing well for himself and his family. Green Bay is like most any other small city of 50,000 people or so that is not a college town. It has nothing but chain restaurants and Ross Dress for Less and no charm or culture whatsoever. Ten days a year the Packers play and the area becomes a madhouse. But I couldn't be happy in a place where going out to eat came down to a choice between Chicago Style Pizza and Hooters.

Milwaukee is a vastly more interesting place, and Chicago is far better still. I could live in Chicago quite happily I think but I would get tired of having so much cold weather and so little to do with it.

[nunusguy]

I'm glad your nephew likes it there and is doing well for himself and his family. Green Bay is like most any other small city of 50,000 people or so that is not a college town. It has nothing but chain restaurants and Ross Dress for Less and no charm or culture whatsoever. Ten days a year the Packers play and the area becomes a madhouse. But I couldn't be happy in a place where going out to eat came down to a choice between Chicago Style Pizza and Hooters.

Milwaukee is a vastly more interesting place, and Chicago is far better still. I could live in Chicago quite happily I think but I would get tired of having so much cold weather and so little to do with it.
OK, you're a big-city guy where you've got lots and lots of choices culturaly speaking that a person only has in a large urban area. Got it.

[chuck]

OK, you're a big-city guy where you've got lots and lots of choices culturaly speaking that a person only has in a large urban area. Got it.

There is some incredibly beautiful scenery along Lake Michigan further north, lots of wonderful canoeing and camping and so on. But the summers are very, very short.

[Nconroe]

On NFL network they said Texans were 9 mil under cap currently.

[Arky]

On NFL network they said Texans were 9 mil under cap currently.

Better.

For record, I should have said the cap took a big sigh of relief instead of "not as big a problem". By not having to pay Mario, that's what, $15-18 million not being used? So, it helps the cap in that way but sounds like they are still fighting for wiggle room....

I drove through Buffalo once one fall on a gloomy day - it's one of those "lake cities"..... lots of weather around those lakes up there....

;)

[edo783]

OK, you're a big-city guy where you've got lots and lots of choices culturaly speaking that a person only has in a large urban area. Got it.

Green Bay is a very nice Beaver Cleaver type of town with tree lined streets. More middle class than most towns would be is my guess. Great hunting and fishing all over the place. Very little crime, in fact I know as little as ten years ago folks didn't even lock their front doors. It's the kind of place that it takes 2-3 years to get into the "Circle" so to speak, but once you do, folks really have your back. Pretty much a blue collar type town where a "Boilermaker" is the drink of choice and not always a job title, probably to stay warm in the winter which is a real BITCH.. Very, very proud of the Packers. I wouldn't recommend saying anything too far out of a positive line regarding them. A meat and potatoes type place with a couple of very good steakhouses. Great place to raise a family.

[popanot]

On NFL network they said Texans were 9 mil under cap currently.This article says we're $11-13MM under, but who knows for sure. Keep in mind, we still have to fit rookies in the cap.

http://www.foxsportshouston.com/03/13/12/Texans-making-cuts-to-keep-key-players/landing_texans.html?blockID=687116&feedID=3716

Sure would be nice if the NFL would publish realtime cap numbers. So much misinformation out there.

Alan Burge mentioned on his blog the Texans contracted Shawntee Spencer shortly after being waived by the 49ers. Our DB coach coached him when he was in SF.

[nunusguy]

Green Bay is a very nice Beaver Cleaver type of town with tree lined streets. More middle class than most towns would be is my guess. Great hunting and fishing all over the place. Very little crime, in fact I know as little as ten years ago folks didn't even lock their front doors. It's the kind of place that it takes 2-3 years to get into the "Circle" so to speak, but once you do, folks really have your back. Pretty much a blue collar type town where a "Boilermaker" is the drink of choice and not always a job title, probably to stay warm in the winter which is a real BITCH.. Very, very proud of the Packers. I wouldn't recommend saying anything too far out of a positive line regarding them. A meat and potatoes type place with a couple of very good steakhouses. Great place to raise a family.
Besides Houston I've lived and worked in ATL, Denver, Albuquerque, and the Seattle-Puget sound metro area and while I've liked them all in varying degrees I've liked none as much as Boise, ID. Now some of us just favor a not so giant community with "a couple of very good steakhouses" that's a good place to raise a family with lots of outdoor recreational opportunities.

[Roy P]

After seeing our cuts and other teams' additions, I'm looking at what's left. Hopefully, we can get some 'value bargains' to fill holes, if we can't resign some players. Along the O-Line I would like to see us target Evan Mathis, Guy Whimper, Mike Pollak, and Travelle Wharton. Then perhaps a WR. Apparently, the WRs across the league are getting paid well and a guy like Mike Wallace might be more than we can afford. So, I'm keeping an eye on Devin Aromashodu, Andre Caldwell, Jericho Cotchery, Early Doucet, Courtney Roby, or Mike Sims-Walker.

Does anyone else have any '2nd tier' FAs that they would like us to sign?

[popanot]

Not sure about those WRs. I don't think they touch Caldwell. Cotchery and Doucet are worth a look for sure. I'm also interested to see what the skins do with Santana Moss. I think there's a good chance he gets cut.

[nunusguy]

Radio 610 AM now reporting Mike Brisiel is an Oakland Raider.
Congrats Mike, glad you finally got paid !

[WMH]

And now the Bengals also have signed Jason Allen. -- Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter)
Wow.......
Jason Allen's new contract is 2 yrs $8.2M w the Bengals #freeagency -- Jason La Canfora (@JasonLaCanfora)

Also, Winston to the Chiefs
Haven't seen the actual numbers, but it looks like 4 yrs. $22MM for Winston.

[jcp]

And now the Bengals also have signed Jason Allen. -- Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter)
Wow.......
Jason Allen's new contract is 2 yrs $8.2M w the Bengals #freeagency -- Jason La Canfora (@JasonLaCanfora)

Also, Winston to the Chiefs

Wow! No way he's worth 4+ per year

[nunusguy]

Wow! No way he's worth 4+ per year
Looks like he is to somebody.

[Nconroe]

So, are Texans done with FA now, till after the draft anyways?

[jcp]

Looks like he is to somebody.

Indeed...good for Jason

[WMH]

So, are Texans done with FA now, till after the draft anyways?

Likely so. They "might" re-sign Dresden, but can't believe there will be much more than that. After the draft, they will prolly bring in some vet min type guys.

[Blitzwood]

Dreesen signed with the Bengles...


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/19/bengals-announce-four-more-free-agent-visitors/.


I'm happy because now we might focus on Fleener @ 26. :D

[WMH]

Dreesen signed with the Bengles...


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/19/bengals-announce-four-more-free-agent-visitors/.


I'm happy because now we might focus on Fleener @ 26. :D

Hasn't signed, just making visits.

[NBT]

Dreesen signed with the Bengles...


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/19/bengals-announce-four-more-free-agent-visitors/.


I'm happy because now we might focus on Fleener @ 26. :D

I'm with ya. Fleener and OD would give Gronk & Hernandez a run for their money. But Dreesen hasn't signed yet. Still hoping we can find the cap money for him.

[WMH]

TE Joel Dreessen says he will choose between the Texans and Broncos by Friday morning. He's also visited Saints, Bengals and Titans. -- John McClain (@McClain_on_NFL)

[TheMatrix31]

Hope he signs with us. I think his importance to our team is severely understated. An unsung hero. But if he goes to Denver, obviously I can't blame him.

[WMH]

Free agent TE Joel Dreessen says he will sign with the Denver Broncos -- Mark Berman (@MarkBermanFox26)

[Nconroe]

I guess Denver could offer more money. Plus hard to pass up receiving from Peyton.

[Keith]

Probably has more to do with going home than with who the QB is though. Dreessen went to HS in Colorado and of course played for Colorado State.

[Mike]

I would have liked to have kept Dreesen. Briesel really cashed in. Now Rick Smith has to earn his salary and hit on some lower level inexpensive free agents to fill in the holes, and we need to hit on our draft. This offseason has been a bummer. I am dissapointed that Mario all of a sudden becomes a twitter freak, even though I figured he was gone with the amount of $ he cashed in with. I liked Winston, be he was alot of sizzle and no steak, the defense I think has leaders in Cush, Manning, Antonio and JJ.

Darn, I need some Texans sunshine. Good teams find good inexpensive players. We picked up Dreeses and Briesel for nothing. Time to do it again.

[Warren]

The Texans will miss Dreessen's blocking the most since there's not another TE on the roster who looks like he can fill that hole. Graham has a chance to step up but I don't think blocking is considered his strong suit. Like Mike alluded to, though, finding a blocking TE doesn't necessarily require investing a high draft pick or big free agent money.

FWIW, the Broncos also signed TE Jacob Tamme today.

[Nconroe]

I heard Dreesen was a good blocker, but I guess Casey and Graham should be able to block as well. I think those two are ready to play and play well.

[HPF Bob]

I see the Texans as losing depth but not really in areas where it will be that tough to replace. We were going into the draft with a WR2 as our greatest priority and now we have several others but they aren't major holes, consider:

We lost Mario but we still have Barwin and Reed.
We traded Ryans but we have Sharpton behind him.
We lost Winston but we have Butler behind him.
We lost Briesel but we have Caldwell behind him.
We lost Leinart but we have Yates behind him.
We lost Vickers and Dreesen but we wanted a bigger role for Casey and now he'll get it.

I don't know if we kept or lost Rackers but that's another position we can easily replace. (PK thinks we should draft the A&M kicker late which suits me just fine).

So I think we can draft BPA now and rebuild our depth. We re-signed the two guys we absolutely had to sign (Foster and Meyers), cleared up cap space next year for extensions and we haven't lost anybody that's not replaceable. And if we had to go to war today with only the players we still have, we are still hands-down the best team in our division. And it only gets better once we start filling in the depth with FAs and the draft.

[bckey]

I don't think Sharpton is the answer at ILB. He is 5' 11" and 230 lbs and not nearly as good as Meco was. Plus he is coming back from a quad tear. ILB should be a high priority in the upcoming draft.

Caldwell isn't the answer at guard either. He isn't very good and has been a disappointment for the Texans.

So I believe the Texans will be drafting WR, ILB and OL in the first 4 rounds. Probaly throw OLB and DT in there if bpa for the other priority positions isn't as good.

[NBT]

WR is going to be an absolute need (at least one, if not two). So it doesn't seem we can afford to go BPA this year. Problem: the big 4 of WRs will be gone, so what now? Do we reach for a WR anyway?

[WMH]

Free agent TE Joel Dreessen says he will sign with the Denver Broncos -- Mark Berman (@MarkBermanFox26)

Saw somewhere that Dressen got a 3 yr, $8.5MM deal. Didn't see the particulars.

[Roy P]

After losing Vickers & Dreesen, I would like to see the Texans sign FB Owen Schmitt. It would be nice to have somebody on the team who could block in the running game. Maybe take a look at UCLA TE Harkey as an undrafted Free Agent. Just sayin' ;)

[WMH]

Hey, they are alive over there on Kirby!

P Donnie Jones signs 1-year deal with Houston -- Jason Cole (@JasonColeYahoo)

[NBT]

Caldwell isn't the answer at guard either. He isn't very good and has been a disappointment for the Texans.

Bleacher Report (for what it's worth) claims Arian Foster said Caldwell was playing all during 2010, when Arian had his best year.

[Arky]

The skinny on Donnie Jones (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/03/texans-make-free-agency-splash-by-adding-a-punter/):

OK, this is more like a tinkle than a splash, but it’s something.

And some of you were worried that the Texans weren’t going to field a team in 2012.

Welcome in Donnie Jones, who is likely to be the punter for at least the first three games while Brett Hartmann serves a suspension for performance-enhancing drug use.

Jones was 22nd in the league in average at 44.3, just slightly behind Hartmann (44.4), but thanks to poor coverage by the Rams (or poor hang time), his net was nearly a full yard shorter than Hartmann’s. Neither one was particularly good, as Hartmann was 28th in the league net, with Jones 31st.

The Texans appear to have gotten Jones on the decline, with his average falling for three consecutive years since he was Shane Lechler-like with a 50.0-yard average in 2008, when he was second-team All-NFL.

Jones had a 46.8-yard average in 2009 and a 45.5-yard average in 2010 before the aforementioned 44.3.

The salary-cap constrained Texans’ first veteran free-agent acquisition in 2012, he received a one-year contract worth $890,000, including a $65,000 signing bonus. Of the total, $540,000 counts against the cap.

Matt Turk, the NFL’s oldest player, returned to the Texans after Hartmann was hurt covering a punt and averaged 42.7 in the last four regular-season games, then 41.8 in the two playoff games. He’s currently an unsigned free agent.

After punting for Miami as a rookie in 2004, Jones spent two seasons with Seattle before joining the Rams. His career average is 45.3.

Texans in free agency

Re-signed – Arian Foster, RB; Chris Myers, C; Jonathan Weeks, C.
Signed – Donnie Jones, P, from St. Louis.
Lost – Mario Williams, DE, to Buffalo; Mike Briesel, OG, to Oakland; Joel Dreessen, TE, to Denver; Jason Allen, CB, to Cincinnati.
Released/unsigned – Eric Winston, OT, signed with Kansas City; Lawrence Vickers, FB, signed with Dallas; Matt Leinart, QB; Neil Rackers, K; Derrick Ward, RB; Bryant Johnson, WR; Matt Turk, P; Damione Lewis, DT; Dominique Barber, S; Quintin Demps, S.

Hmmm, part-time till Hartmann comes back or bye bye Hartmann?

[coloradodude]

I'm seriously getting concerned now. A mediocre punter?

Is our depth that competitive in the positions we've lost so as NOT to replace them with free agents? Or, is our scouting team that confident that we can replace most of them in the draft?

I have to admit, the scouting team has been pretty dang good especially last year.

(Side note for grins: I think I'd allow Wade to have a say in the fullback position based on his input for meat eaters on D...big, fast and crazy - that sounds like a good fullback to me)

[WMH]

I'm seriously getting concerned now. A mediocre punter?

Is our depth that competitive in the positions we've lost so as NOT to replace them with free agents? Or, is our scouting team that confident that we can replace most of them in the draft?

I have to admit, the scouting team has been pretty dang good especially last year.

(Side note for grins: I think I'd allow Wade to have a say in the fullback position based on his input for meat eaters on D...big, fast and crazy - that sounds like a good fullback to me)

When have we ever had a non-mediocre punter?

[nunusguy]

Bleacher Report (for what it's worth) claims Arian Foster said Caldwell was playing all during 2010, when Arian had his best year.

And he lost his job in 2011 to Breisel because of an ankle issue from what I've read ? Maybe if he remains healthy this year we won't lose anything aferall at RG with Breisel's departure ?

[WMH]

#Texans WR Kevin Walter took a $1.5 million pay cut to stay with the team. -- Dov Kleiman (@NFL_RealUpdates)

[NBT]

Now for the other weak spot on our WRs, Jacobe Jones. On second thought he just needs to go.

[Nconroe]

I might be the only one, but I'd be ok with Jacoby staying as 3,4,5 WR and punt returns, as long as they can teach him when to leave a punt alone during preseason. And, maybe if he reworks his contract like Walters did.

stats for Kevin Walters receiving past 5 years is much better than many no. 2 receivers
YR Team GP REC Yds
2007-08 Houston 16 65 800
2008-09 Houston 16 60 899
2009-10 Houston 14 53 611
2010-11 Houston 16 51 621
2011-12 Houston 15 39 474

stats for Jacoby not bad for third, four WR, not that many plays available for all, he really hasn't fumbled that much, we just remember when
2007-08 Houston 14 15 149
2008-09 Houston 16 3 81
2009-10 Houston 14 27 437
2010-11 Houston 15 51 562
2011-12 Houston 16 31 512

[barrett]

I might be the only one, but I'd be ok with Jacoby staying as 3,4,5 WR and punt returns, as long as they can teach him when to leave a punt alone during preseason. And, maybe if he reworks his contract like Walters did.

stats for Kevin Walters receiving past 5 years is much better than many no. 2 receivers
YR Team GP REC Yds
2007-08 Houston 16 65 800
2008-09 Houston 16 60 899
2009-10 Houston 14 53 611
2010-11 Houston 16 51 621
2011-12 Houston 15 39 474

stats for Jacoby not bad for third, four WR, not that many plays available for all, he really hasn't fumbled that much, we just remember when
2007-08 Houston 14 15 149
2008-09 Houston 16 3 81
2009-10 Houston 14 27 437
2010-11 Houston 15 51 562
2011-12 Houston 16 31 512

I think he's a bad punt returner. And it's not about the one poorly timed muff. He shuffle steps every punt like he is devin Hester. Only he is not quick. He is big and fast for a PR, but not quick. He needs to catch it and go instead of giving away 10 yards every time in the hope he might make 11 guys miss by standing in place.

And as a wr he is an average deep threat (without ball skills), who can't run a route.

[HPF Bob]

Up until his gaffe against the Ravens, I thought Jones stepped up rather well in Andre Johnson's absence until Schaub got hurt, then the deep ball was taken out of our game plan and that is Jones' chief weapon as a receiver.

He's a good return man when he doesn't dance or run backwards, and he occasionally cracks the long one so I'm fine with him back there as long as he learns from his mistakes - and that's the real question. I felt he had made good progress last year until Schaub went down and then he had the gaffe in the Ravens game.

It should be noted Jones made some big plays last year and would have set us in Ravens territory with one punt return that got called back for a block in the back. He's not as bad as some folks around here make him out to be but he is starting to exceed his value salary-wise and just doesn't play smart at times.

[barrett]

Up until his gaffe against the Ravens, I thought Jones stepped up rather well in Andre Johnson's absence until Schaub got hurt, then the deep ball was taken out of our game plan and that is Jones' chief weapon as a receiver.

He's a good return man when he doesn't dance or run backwards, and he occasionally cracks the long one so I'm fine with him back there as long as he learns from his mistakes - and that's the real question. I felt he had made good progress last year until Schaub went down and then he had the gaffe in the Ravens game.

It should be noted Jones made some big plays last year and would have set us in Ravens territory with one punt return that got called back for a block in the back. He's not as bad as some folks around here make him out to be but he is starting to exceed his value salary-wise and just doesn't play smart at times.

He has one skill as a WR, catching deep balls where he has run by the defense. He is ineffective on any route with timing or a cut involved, and he is ineffective on deep balls if there is a defender in the play. I think a deep threat has to have some ball skills, otherwise there are about 50 guys who can run fast on a deep route, and none of them get paid like Jacoby.

As a punt returner he is average at best. Way too many zero and negative returns when he has 10+ yards if he would get upfield. But he does occasionally break one. I did not have a huge issue with the muff other than the timing, since he has actually been reliable fielding punts in comparison to his early years. I think the playoff muff was just a guy trying to force a play when there wasn't one. But I can't get over the fact that he tries to dance like a waterbug instead of getting upfield like a 6'2" guy. But that could be a coaching issue (or lack of coaching issue) for all I know.

[Keith]

As of 3/30/2012:
Houston Texans
Current contracts: 51
Previous year carryover: $0.00
Adjustments: $2,297,606.00
Adjusted cap: $122,897,606.00
Team cap: $119,298,594.00
Cap room: $3,599,012.00
Team cash: $107,862,171.18

Source: http://blogs.nfl.com/2012/03/30/salary-cap-situation-for-each-team/

[popanot]

stats for Kevin Walters receiving past 5 years is much better than many no. 2 receivers

YR Team GP REC Yds
2007-08 Houston 16 65 800
2008-09 Houston 16 60 899
2009-10 Houston 14 53 611
2010-11 Houston 16 51 621
2011-12 Houston 15 39 474
I don't like the trend I see here. KW hasn't been a productive #2 since '09. KW was smart to take a pay cut because he was probably at risk of working as store manager at his local Krogers. Factor in those recent numbers, JJ's inconsistency and AJ's increasing injury status, and you have a pretty huge area of need. I see the Texans spending at least 2 picks at WR, signing a scrap-heap veteran (hello Braylon or Ocho) and hoping like hell Lestar Jean can become something.

[HPF Bob]

I don't like the trend I see here. KW hasn't been a productive #2 since '09. KW was smart to take a pay cut because he was probably at risk of working as store manager at his local Krogers. Factor in those recent numbers, JJ's inconsistency and AJ's increasing injury status, and you have a pretty huge area of need. I see the Texans spending at least 2 picks at WR, signing a scrap-heap veteran (hello Braylon or Ocho) and hoping like hell Lestar Jean can become something.

And here is where looking at stats can get you in trouble. Our receivers have fewer catches in the past few seasons because a) we are running the ball more effectively and b) we are playing from behind less. That means fewer balls in the air which means smaller stats for our receivers. When Foster can chew up big chunks on the ground, why throw as much as we did when the ground game sucked?

I do think a legit #2 receiver is a definite need (in part because Walter has never been Ed McCaffrey) but I'm not sure we need to draft two and sign another one. The WR corps isn't a huge need, just one of a few. I could go for several other positions at #26 besides WR.

BTW, on Keith's chart regarding cap space, remember we still have to sign our draft choices so there is less cap space than you might believe. We might even have a June 1st cut just to open up more space after the draft (so those hoping for Jacoby to get cut, watch to see whether we draft a WR at #26 and then cut Jones on June 1st to free up cap space).

[NBT]

I fully expect there will be more cuts come June 1st, and I hope Jacobe is one of them. Kubiak needs to give up on his little pet receiver project.

[Nconroe]

I started a thread for kick and punt returners under the Draft section.

But for knocking or being frustrated with our own team, Jacoby actually did pretty good compared to results for other teams. If he did better, which appears possible, he could be a no. 1 type returner, just saying. that is looking at results.

[NBT]

You've been drinking too much of Jacobe's KoolAid.

[Nconroe]

Maybe so, its ice tea, not kool-aid. but I also watch how other teams do.

Other teams have no. 1 receivers who drop way more passes than Jacoby or any Texans WR.

Other teams have guys who are much worse team players and way more disruptive in the locker room.

Just saying there is a lot to having a good team, and it isn't just the last bad play we tend to remember. different guys mature at different times.

Texans already have a lot of guys who have gone on to do good at other teams who we thought weren't so good here.

Just trying to be fair. I am also looking for drafting of good WR/PR for future.

I guess there could be some June cuts, but we need to get up to 80 players for training camp and only have in low 50's right now. So likely most cuts will be after training camp.

Or for some significant FA acquisition which seems unlikely right now.

most likely saying too much already, over.

[NBT]

And here is where looking at stats can get you in trouble. Our receivers have fewer catches in the past few seasons because a) we are running the ball more effectively and b) we are playing from behind less. That means fewer balls in the air which means smaller stats for our receivers. When Foster can chew up big chunks on the ground, why throw as much as we did when the ground game sucked?

I do think a legit #2 receiver is a definite need (in part because Walter has never been Ed McCaffrey) but I'm not sure we need to draft two and sign another one. The WR corps isn't a huge need, just one of a few. I could go for several other positions at #26 besides WR.

BTW, on Keith's chart regarding cap space, remember we still have to sign our draft choices so there is less cap space than you might believe. We might even have a June 1st cut just to open up more space after the draft (so those hoping for Jacoby to get cut, watch to see whether we draft a WR at #26 and then cut Jones on June 1st to free up cap space).

I heartily dissagree. I think we will need to be more versatile this season. The league is going to load up against Foster to try to keep us down. With AJ aging, and more susceptable to injury, it is imperative that we have WRs & TEs able to keep the defense from hogging the holes. I wish we knew more about LeStar Jean and Jeff Maehl. They could help out a lot if they are ready to play.

[barrett]

I heartily dissagree. I think we will need to be more versatile this season. The league is going to load up against Foster to try to keep us down. With AJ aging, and more susceptable to injury, it is imperative that we have WRs & TEs able to keep the defense from hogging the holes. I wish we knew more about LeStar Jean and Jeff Maehl. They could help out a lot if they are ready to play.

Two very good defenses loaded up to stop Foster in the playoffs with Yates at QB and he shredded them. There is nothing the NFL can do to "load up" and stop Foster. He has run better against 8 man fronts than anyone in the NFL the last two years.

Our offense is great if Schaub and AJ are healthy. If they are not we are screwed. I don't think that means you plan for either one to be out. We don't have the money to back up expensive starters in case of injury. You either judge that those guys can be healthy or you replace them. You can't pay them and replace them.

I am sure we will do something at WR, but we are the most versatile offense in the NFL as is.

[HPF Bob]

I don't see Maehl being anything more than David Anderson. He was a UDFA for a reason. Jean, OTOH, could be special but we didn't get to see enough to know for sure.

[NBT]

OK, Maehl was a UFA and so was Jean. Maehl is bad because of that, but Jean is good. I fail to see your logic.

[barrett]

OK, Maehl was a UFA and so was Jean. Maehl is bad because of that, but Jean is good. I fail to see your logic.

What could it be about Maelh that convinces Bob he could never be a real player?

For that matter, what is it that convinces Bob he is another David Anderson?

And what is different about Jean than those two that he can be special? Is it Jean's 2nd team All-Sun Belt honors that set him apart?

[painekiller]

What could it be about Maelh that convinces Bob he could never be a real player?

For that matter, what is it that convinces Bob he is another David Anderson?

And what is different about Jean than those two that he can be special? Is it Jean's 2nd team All-Sun Belt honors that set him apart?

Speaking for myself, I went to every weekday open practice last season and I watched Maehl, who I like a lot, but also feel the comparison to DA is accurate, and I watched Lestar Jean. Jean keep having wow moments at practice. Even going against the vets in some one on one drills.

And Kubiak also could not stop talking about Jean.

I am expecting more from Jean this coming year.

[HPF Bob]

Why is Arian Foster better than Chris Ogbanaya? Both were UDFAs...

[barrett]

I'm just giving Bob a hard time.

As for Jean, he was an UDFA for a reason just like Maehl. He may blossom, but I would not hold my breath waiting for it. Especially on this team. Our #4 barely sees the field and our #2/#3 barely see the ball. Not a lot of room to break in as a WR when you run it 35 times and you target your RB and TE more than your 2nd-4th WRs (155 combined for OD and Arian, 137 for Walter, JJ, B. Johnston).

As for Foster and Ogbonoya, only one of those guys were undrafted.

[Arky]

Some slightly dated news:

Texans re-sign Demps to bolster depth at safety spot (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/04/texans-re-sign-demps-to-bolster-depth-at-safety-spot/)

The Texans added depth at safety on Thursday when they re-signed Quintin Demps.

Demps, entering his fifth season, received a one-year deal for $700,000.

Demps played well off the bench last season. He went to camp with the Texans but was waived in the last roster reduction. He was re-signed early in the season because of injuries. Demps played so well as a reserve that coach Gary Kubiak apologized for cutting him in the first place.

Demps, who also is a good special teams player, joins Troy Nolan as quality depth behind starter Danieal Manning.

Safety isn’t a priority in the draft. Glover Quin is the starting strong safety. Shiloh Keo, entering his second season, backs up Quin.

[NBT]

I'm just giving Bob a hard time.

As for Jean, he was an UDFA for a reason just like Maehl. He may blossom, but I would not hold my breath waiting for it. Especially on this team. Our #4 barely sees the field and our #2/#3 barely see the ball. Not a lot of room to break in as a WR when you run it 35 times and you target your RB and TE more than your 2nd-4th WRs (155 combined for OD and Arian, 137 for Walter, JJ, B. Johnston).

As for Foster and Ogbonoya, only one of those guys were undrafted.

That might have been true last year because they still had Dreeson, and Arian was running the heck out of the football. This year the defenses are going to look at a lot of tape, and are probably going to be harder to run against. Not saying Arian won't get his numbers, only that they will be harder to come by. We may have to rely on the 3rd & 4th WR because of that.

As for Jean and Maehl, if one of them can return a punt, or if they can imcrease the WR production, then I say let J.J. go. I think both guys have potential, but we will just have to wait to see how the Draft, OTAs, and TC go.

[barrett]

That might have been true last year because they still had Dreeson, and Arian was running the heck out of the football. This year the defenses are going to look at a lot of tape, and are probably going to be harder to run against. Not saying Arian won't get his numbers, only that they will be harder to come by. We may have to rely on the 3rd & 4th WR because of that.

As for Jean and Maehl, if one of them can return a punt, or if they can imcrease the WR production, then I say let J.J. go. I think both guys have potential, but we will just have to wait to see how the Draft, OTAs, and TC go.

The target numbers I listed did not include Dreesen (or Casey).

Arian had just as big a year two years ago and nobody came up with a way to stop him last year. When it comes to our running game, there is nothing to figure out. Kubiak/Shanahan have been doing this for 25 years and nobody has figured it out yet. We aren't talking about a wildcat gimmick, we are talking about a team that lines up and runs it at you. We are the most successful team in the NFL at running against 8 man fronts the last two years. As long as Arian is healthy he is going to run on teams. There is nothing on tape to look at and adjust to that has not been done before.

As for needing our 3/4 WR more, it can't hurt. But Foster and OD are clearly the 2/3 option on this team, and they are very dangerous.

So for Jean to have a breakout year he will have to leapfrog Walter, JJ (if he's around), and anybody we draft. And then take targets away from 2 clearly better players (Foster and OD). All this on a run first team that values blocking from their WRs as much as catching. I am not holding my breath.

It is a very different situation than Foster needing to take carries from broken necked Slaton and Ron Dayne.

[chuck]

I'm just giving Bob a hard time.


It's so easy it's almost not any fun, is it?

[WMH]

Free agent kicker Neil Rackers tells FOX 26 Sports he has ageed to a 1 year deal with the Redskins. -- Mark Berman (@MarkBermanFox26)

[barrett]

Free agent kicker Neil Rackers tells FOX 26 Sports he has ageed to a 1 year deal with the Redskins. -- Mark Berman (@MarkBermanFox26)

We should be able to replace him as a kicker but can our kick coverage unit replace his tackling?

[WMH]

We should be able to replace him as a kicker but can our kick coverage unit replace his tackling?

Lmao. That was my exact first thought.

Berman has a quickie article on it, and it sounds like Smith didn't offer more than the minimum. I'm ok with that.
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/nfl/120424-neil-rackers-signs-with-redskins#.T5c7mXG8R3w.twitter

Outside of Seabass.....whatever.

[Nconroe]

Kicking game seems right now is a weak point that I hope gets to be a strength.

[WMH]

John McClain (@McClain_on_NFL) tweeted:
Texans are working out former Oakland and KC CC Stanford Routt on Tuesday.

[WMH]

John McClain (@McClain_on_NFL) tweeted:
Texans are working out former Oakland and KC CC Stanford Routt on Tuesday.

John McClain (@McClain_on_NFL) tweeted:
After working him out this morning, the Texans are going to sign CB Stanford Routt to take the roster spot vacated by CB Brice McCain.

Depth is needed. Hope he doesn't have to play.

[Nconroe]

Let's hope Routt just needed a change of scenery. He's almost 6k2" and fast with 2 Int at Kc before they cut him, perhaps missingt a meeting on a bad team. Before this he was good enough to earn a 3 year, 21 mil FA contraact.